Suboxone Withdrawal Symptoms – Sweating, Headache, Nausea, Insomnia, Anxiety, Pain…

rusticradio 3 years ago

Hello,

When would it be safe to start taking suboxone. I take Oxycontin at about 300 mg daily. After a 10-12 hour wait would it be alright to do the normal starting dose of 2 mg and so on.

Any and all help at all would be greatly appreciated.

Many Thanks, rusticradio

Educated 3 years ago

2mg wont be enough. Take 8 mg at least. Normal prescriptions are for 16 mg but i found that after using for 3 years that 8mg of suboxone was enough.

fellow opiate user 3 years ago

I've been on subs for two years now and it is the best overall substitute for opiate dependence in my opinion. 300 milis of oxycontin is alot so you probably want to take the max dosage allowed by your physician. i was on 120 milis of methadone for 1 year before I switched to subs and let me tell you i went about switching all wrong because of my lack of knowledge about the drug. inquiring like you are doing is a good thing and will spare you the misery that i went through.

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fellow opiate user 3 years ago

sorry i submitted the comment to early...

Anyway......Like I mentioned before I was on 120 milis of methadone for 1 year before I switched. What I did wrong was that I didn't taper down to below 40 mgs a day befor I took 16 mg. I would personally ignore the below 40mgs and taper down to at least 10mgs a day, now in your case the oxycontin has a half lfe of 12 hours and methadone has one of 32 hours. What a half life means is that it takes oxycontin 12 hours for half of the amount you are taking to leave your body. So if you were totally clean and you took 100 mgs of oxy, 12 hours later your body still has 50 mgs left in it to get rid of, and vice-versa with the meth(16 hours). Now this does not include the amount that you have taken before. How it works is if you religously take 100mgs a day of oxy at 1200am..... at noon time you have 50mgs still in you. Now the "kicker" is if you like the way it feels and you take another 100mgs at noon at midnight of the following day you will now have 100mgs still in your body. now lets say you take another 100mgs 12 hours later you will now have 150 mgs still in your body. This is were your tolerance comes from. So you can easily see how much shit we still have in our systems to clear even if we didn't take anything even for two days..So in your case I would wait until you are smack dead in the middle of withdrawl to start your regiment. If you dont the buprenorphine (the opiate) and the narcan(the opiate blocker) in the subs will knock all of the residual opiates right off your receptors and put you in ,what they call precipitated withdrawl. In my case I didn;t listen and 1 hour after I had taken the subs, I could feel the opiates being knocked off my receptors like a racked set of pool balls being broken with the cue ball. It felt like a rushing wave of icewater swept through my brain and down my spine all the way to the tips of my extremities. I was so sick for 5 days that I thought I needed to go to the hospital. Now the even shittier part about it was that I couldnt take any opiates to make me feel better because of the opiate blocker. I was stuck like that.... like it or not. So don't do what I did so stupidly. Take the subs when you can just barely stand the withdrawl anymore. This way it will work more efficiently and will give you relief in about an hour not 7 days.....good luck

CleanQueen 3 years ago

I went into percipitated withdrawal once also. It is the worst thing in the world. I called the suboxone hotline and they told me to go back on my opiates and try again in a few days. I tried adain in about 6 months. I did it the right way this time. If taken correctly it really works. And I was snorting about 880mgs at least everyday. You should wait til you are in pretty hard withdrawal and then when you tske 8mgs your withdrawal will go almost all away in about a half hour. The only problem is I have been clean for 4 months and I am really scared of getting off the suboxone. Withdrawal is what always makes me weak enough to relaps. I am so happy to be clean. I was a hard core oxy user for years, Does anyone have any suggestions for me?

off the subs 3 years ago

I was a heavy opiate user (heroin and 80's) for about 2 years. I was arrested and put in jail for a little bit. At that time i was just using heroin, I detoxed in jail for about 5 days then the symtoms begain to subside. When i was realesed I stayed clean for about 30 days but I knew that I wanted to get high from 0 tolerance. The next chance I got to use heroin I did, so again I became a heavy user switching between the dope and oxy 80's. I used heavy for about 10 strait montsh then I became so broke that I began buying suboxone off the street, starting at about 8mg a day and working myslef down to about 2 mg a day over a month period. I began to experience flue like symptoms while using the 2 mg a day and a couple days later was hospitalized and was diagnosed with various different serious illnesess. I stoped using the suboxone while I was in the hospital for two days, when I was released I used 1 mg to help me sleep one night. After that last night using the 1 mg of suboxone I stopped the the suboxone completely. I am now on day 12 of the suboxone detox and it is less painfull than the heroin detox but more drawn out. It took me about 9 or 10 days to get over the worst of the effects, where as just kicking heroin took only about 5 days but it was way more painful (Expecialy in jail). I now have no urge to use from 0 tolerance and am still recovering. I figure most if not all of the withdrawl symptoms will be gone after 30 days or so, maybe more. So in my experience heroin withdrawl is more painful, it just takes less time than suboxone withdrawl. I do not think I would have made the choise to get clean if it were not for the suboxone it did help me get off the dope and the bupe, I just want people to know that it can work, but the withdrawl prosess will be long and drawn out.

Kelly 3 years ago

I am just starting my wean off suboxone..Iwent intl a detox facility b/c of roxy's and anything else I could get my hands on.(this has been over 8 years) I'm 30! Anyway I supposedly was detoxed in a 600 dollar a night place, but when I left I woke up the next day ready to jump off a bridge!! I went to my doctor and he saw i was in full on withdrawl and so gave me a script for suboxone. It saved me....It took away all the pains but did not give me a high. I have been on it for 4 months and am just about ready to get off. Idid not have any problems with it counteracting with anything else. I will say though, that you need not bother getting anything once you're on the suboxone b/c you really don't get any affects like you usually would, so It just makes it a waste of money!! It is all good if you are ready...if you are not, then wait!!! gud luck!!!

Just call me, a friend. 3 years ago

Listen you guys, I'm 24, I was an oxy and heroin abuser for over 3 years...Did about 3-4 oxy 80's a day, and a bundle of dope on other days..I went on suboxone, and ended up being on it for the next 2 years..Suboxone is a crutch, and it is a miracle drug for sure, but what doctors don't tell you is that you really shouldn't be on it for more than 6 months. It's Nov. 24 2008, I just stopped taking Suboxone 8 days ago, and it was a very bad week of withdrawals....Not as bad as Oxy's or H though....I was tapered down even to 2 mg a day for months leading up to when I stopped...I've been hurting though, still am, but I think more clearly about things now and I already feel like a new person..I wasn't myself on oxy's or H, and I'm sure I wasn't either on Suboxone...My advice to all, would be to use Suboxone only to give yourself enough time to get away from the people and places where you used to use, After you stabliize for a couple months or so, taper down the dose 50%-75% every week or two until you get to 2 mg a day....and then do 2mg a day for about 2-4 weeks....and then just cold turkey it. I'm serious, tell your family, tell your friends, they will support you I promise...And take a week or so for yourself to get through the withdrawals of Suboxone. I'm 8 days in, and I was bed ridden for the first 6 days, and the last 2 days I get these crazy cold sweats, not so much the aches and pains anymore, but sweats...I think the shit is making its last stand on me, but your will has to be outstanding...All you have to do, is think about all the things you used to love in you're life, and how you want them all back...Good luck to everyone, don't do what I did and use Suboxone as a crutch for years...I'm not religious, but I pray for those who are just like I was.

David White 3 years ago

Hi my name is David, i was eatin about 20 to 30 10mg lortabs a day, all i can say is dont wait till your 42 to get off, it can easily kill you, young people have a much easier time, i take suboxone 8-2- and it was a miracle pill from day one, im clean now for 4 months, and i also get a little freeky if i think im going to half to stop, i dont think you half to , its up to the individual, some people may just want to be comepletely drug free, but im not going to take the chance, not right now anyway and quit what literaly saved my life, i thout every breath would be my last, but when they gave me the symboxone, 2 times a day under the toung, i was set free, so to each his own, i just know the pill works.

Good luck to all

ashhead 3 years ago

I have been taking 8 mgs, I guess, 3 times a day for two years. Yeah, 24 a day because I have pain issues. The only dirty UA's I have had is when I spilled my thyroid meds, scooped them up, and got a few of my boyfriends penobarbitals mixed in. I mean, who gets high on phenos? Not me. Problem is, last week I took my Subs in my pack because a friend's daughter was staying here and I didn't totally trust her. I lost them. My Doc is out until Monday and it is Wednesday. By Friday night I was looking for anything and all I could find was black, so I snorted a cotton. Didn't get high, but not sick anymore. The next day I was able to borrow enough subs to get through, Of course, at my scheduled Doc appointment he UAed me. I lied and said I didn't use, but I am going to tell the truth to my counseler next week. But, the withdrawals were brutal! My Doc has to know that, doesn't he? He's an alcoholic. I've been clean for two years and I really do not want to go to out-patient treatment again. Hell. I was clean 13 years and a drug and alcohol counseler myself. He should understand..do ya think? But, addicts lie, so why should he believe me, right? I thought maybe I could have my counseler call him.

ashhead 3 years ago

I have been takin 8 mgs, I guess, 3 times a day for two years. Yeah, 24 a day because I have pain issues. The only dirty UA's I have had is when I spilled my thyroid meds, scooped them up, and got a few of my boyfriends penpbarbitals mixed in. I mean, who gets high on phenos? Not me. Problem is, last week I took my Subs in my pack because a friend's daughter was staying here and I didn't totally trust her. I lost them. My Doc is out until Monday and it is Wednesday. By Friday night I was looking for anything and all I could find was black, so I snorted a cotton. Didn;t get high, but not sick anymore. The next day I was able to borrow enough subs to get through, Of course, at my scheduled Doc appointment he UAed me. I lyed and said I didn't use, but I am going to tell the truth to my couselor next week. But, the withdrawals were brutal! My Doc has to know that, doesn't he? He's an alcoholic. I've been clean for two years and I really do not want to go to out-patient treatment again. Hell. I was clean 13 years and a drug and alcohol couselor myself. He should understand..do ya think?

my 2 cents 3 years ago

I was abusing opiates for like 4 years, worked in a hair salon where vicodin and oxycontin were literally sold in our salon, by other salon workers. Needless to say, my addiction got so bad I really couldn't manage my life anymore. Every bit of money went to my dealers (well, at the time "friends'), and that's obviously not the worst of it. Eventually, by March of this past year, I was taking almost 500-800 mgs of oxy a day. Snorting. If I had no other choice but to take vicodin, it basically did nothing unless I took 15 to 20 and at least I wouldn't feel sick, but no high really. I am a guy, about 5' 7" and I was literally down to like 110 lbs, no lie. It was horrible. So back in March of this year, I ended up one day just not going back to that job. Was in withdrawal, started freaking, and decided to seek help. I ended up in an outpatient drug treatment program. They put me on Suboxone, which obviously saved my life, and I stayed on it for about 8 months. Towards the end, my insurance stopped covering the program, they dropped me because I couldn't afford treatment, and I decided that I just wanted to get off the meds. Now, what I did, was this: I had a script for 90 subs which was enough for one month of my normal three 8mgs per day. However, during the time in program, I was eventually only taking one or two per day because I felt completely fine from taking one. Also, I was, after time, starting to feel SLIGHTLY euphoric from three subs (two morning, one night). So, in a way, I had prepared myself for this experience.I actually made that script of 90 last for over three months, in the end, I was literally just scraping little pieces off, so one pill was lasting over 4 days. Redonculous, right? I mean, as soon as I would take that TINY piece, I was completely fine. What I began to notice, was that every morning when I woke up, I was already starting to feel the withdrawal. Legs hurt, chills, moody, etc. I assumed that if I just continued to take the little piece every morning that eventually, my body would adjust. Logically, this is true. In reality, I was taking little pieces for OVER A MONTH, no signs of the withdrawal subsiding, until two weeks ago today, I had no more sub. I decided, and braced myself for the events that were to come. The withdrawal was, in fact, pretty bad. Not nearly as bad as the withdrawal from oxy's, obviously, but was still bad enough that I was literally out of work, unable to even get out of bed for longer than ten minutes at a time. Granted, I was NOT sleeping, just rocking back and forth and kicking. The leg pain, for me, was intolerable, did not let up enough to let me sleep. I know this is a long post, but really this is what I wanted to say:It was, in fact, an intense withdrawal, something I would like to never have to do again. Ever. The absolute fact of the matter is that Suboxone withdrawal may be milder than oxy's or other opiates, but it is most certainly LONGER of a withdrawal. Like I said, today is day 14 - two weeks exactly. Though I can now sit through work, and can go about every day, I still have extreme sensitivity to cold, mild chills, mild leg aches, and I'm still running for the bathroom at least 3-4 times a day with diarrea. But I am starting to feel like a normal human being and I am truly thankful. I have not even the slightest desire to use, in fact, it completely turns me off altogether, thinking about what I just went through.What I personally stand advocate for is that when going on Suboxone, you need to find the RIGHT treatment program for your needs. It needs to be more than a Dr. prescribing you Suboxone and sending you home. Drug counseling is a must, and group therapy with other addicts is STRONGLY recommended. These two things gave me (if nothing else) the tools or at least strength and support to suffer through over two weeks of withdrawal and to finally actually know how to live a life of sobriety. None of us opiate addicts will ever be anything less than instant gratification seekers, and, unfortunately, with opiate addiction, there is NO EASY WAY OUT. But despite all the negative things I have experienced with the program, I do not have any regret, because it is what made me able to say "I just want to be done, and I will not cave in." Without the 8 months in counseling, I would have never gotten through my addiction.::sigh:: Well, that's my story. Should anyone have any questions, need support, or anything else you can reach me via email @ sean_so_sick@yahoo.com.

Good luck, and be well. Stay strong. It is only temporary.Sean

ashhead 3 years ago

My doctor will only write Suboxone sripts for long-term addicts over 35. I am 55. He says, and I believe it to be so, that all those years of addiction wrecks your endorphin system. I also know this to be true because as a detox couseler. my MA in Human Services, on the streets, as well as personal experience: withdrawals are worse the older you get and totally clean, older addicts have a more difficult time staying clean. Why? Because our bodies have so many more receptors in our brains from the drugs, so now we have more empty receptors crying out to be filled. So, for me, Subs will probably be part of my life-forever. I was totally clean for 13 years, then started using again about 10 years ago. Believe me- the withdrawals I had in my twenties and early thirties were like a bad flu compared to what I went through a couple of years ago. Oh, and only a few close friends in NA know I take the subs, because most people in 12 step programs don't think you are really clean if you take them. I think we all know that you don't get high on subs. You just get to live your life.

g-man 3 years ago

I think the original article is wrong in some respects. Sub does not have a short half-life like heroin or pain pills, which are around 3 hours. Sub has a half-life of 37.5 hours and methadone has one of 40 hours. Therefore, sub is very hard to get off of, as I am finding out as I type. My doc put me on maintenance suboxone for a year and a half without good reason, and now I'm having severe withdrawals (on my fifth day) even after tapering as he directed.

Looking around at opiate forums showed me that I was not alone, and that severe, long, drawn-out withdrawal is the norm for long-term users. Sub may be a great drug for a 2 week detox period, but should almost never be used long term. I went through a honeymoon period of four months when I first started sub, but after that wore off, I didn't feel so great. I was treating sub like the opiate it is: I couldn't wait to get off work and take my pill so I felt normal for the evening. I've been struggling to get off this drug ever since. These withdrawals just keep going on and on, and the intensity comes and goes, but can be as bad as when I was taken off I-V dilaudid suddenly after breaking my back and having surgery (I was on it for eleven days).

My doc was completely ignorant, I guess, of the severity and length of w/d symptoms. He always said if we taper, it will be no big deal. Bull!!! I was sick on- and-off the whole time of the taper (two months), and now that I'm off the last tiny dose, I'm sick as sh*t. And mad. I went to this doc originally after a rehab stint to get off alcohol and benzos. I still don't drink or pop pills, but my doc has me addicted to an opiate! Just know that if you get on suboxone long-term, you will either stay on it forever or really pay the price to get off. From what I read on forums, I may feel w/d effects for a couple of years.

I hope everybody makes the right decision. Get informed!

SubEater 3 years ago

If your feeling withdrawl symptoms for a few YEARS after taking suboxone theres definitly something else doing it. After being on subs for 18 months I wanted to stop. Once I dropped below 8mg's I didnt have that same rush. Once I was down to 4mg's I just felt normal--except I was paying over $400/month for the doc and the script. Today is my 8th day off and I still have chills, sweats, and leg cramps. Also very little energy.

The good part is that the worst is over. The first two days I felt shitty but I could still function--like shoveling snow. The 3rd day got pretty bad with the leg cramps and chills so I took 2 Vicodins which helped but I still felt like shit. The 4th and 5th day were by far the worst for me. So now I just keep telling myself the worst is over and it only gets better. It just threw me off since I was used to herion w/d hitting the next morning. So I was thinking the first two days that this sub detox isnt bad at all. Little did I know subs long halflife doesnt really hit you until the 3rd or 4th day!

I had all the same symtoms of being dope sick just not as bad. Now I'm just yearning for the day I wake up with no chills and I'll be good to go. Good luck all!

none 3 years ago

my boyfriend was addicted to h for almost all of his grown up life and when i found out he decided he wanted to get off and went to the doctors. they put him on subs and after being on them for about 6 months he is now adicted. He recently lost his job and insurence. Today was the first day he didnt have money to get subs and he is the worst ive ever seen him....I dont know what there is to do to help him...I'm hoping some advice can be provided...PLEASE I'M DESPERATE!!!! I don't want to lose him.

g-man 3 years ago

The first two days of my sub w/d, I was doubled-over with stomach pain. I should have been the picture next to the dictionary entry for "all balled up", because that is exactly how I felt. I don't know how I got thru it. Immodium A/D helped the stomach issues. Smoking pot helped a little, but short-term. This is my ninth day off after a year and a half and I'm still sick and can't go to work. Luckily, I was able to borrow some money to pay the mortgage this month. After about the fourth day, I've been trying to move around as much as possible, walking, etc. I was cold all the time, so if it was too cold out, I would take laps around the house like a rainman or something.

jeremy 3 years ago

i've been taking my meds as directed for approx a year now and just recently and over the holidays misplaced them. well. i also was coming on with a cold too so i was taking my add meds to overcome the flu symtoms. Within several days of not having the subs i began to have severe aches, diarhea like i didn't know was possible and not a wink of sleep. it took me a minute to realize i was in withdrawl but there i was on christmas in a miserable state of affairs. I mean, i felt like my body was falling apart, so you can only imagine when i found my orange capsule how everything was instantly fixed; what a sigh of relief. if i had a scale, i probably would've noticed it was shifting with the consumption of a steady diet of nothing. anyway i didn't even bother telling my doctor about my childish manner of losing chemicals altered specifically for my receptors instead i wandered into the unspeakable territory of sexual tendencies or lack of. he said it could be my testosterone levels and put a shot in me. blood test, he said, thats all! He said he wasn't comfortable with me taking anymore scripts at the time. well at the very least that hurt my feelings and i walked out of there feeling empty inside and discouraged that i either would have to start taking shots once a month or never be able to measure up to the llevel of love from my girlfriend. i don't so much mind having to put pink tablets under my tongue every now and again, it's just embarrassing if i have to go in and get shots once a month for the rest of my life. i remember i was a sexual dinosaur a couple years ago and now this. maybe i can start taking ciallis or something. i'm also in the 12 steps program and am currently taking three different controlled substances-i wonder if i told my sponsor about that if they would really think i was one of them. i mean, i have been taking the etg UA's for the last 9 months now so i'm able to prove i'm not drinking;which is what i thought the steps were all about.

jeremy 3 years ago

during the time i had the 'FLU" I was also experiencing random nauseau and repeated stints on the bathroom floor dry heaving. i guess this is not that uncommon but the whole insomnia deal was the worst i can remember and if i did decide to come completely off i think that would be my biggest concern. As soon as i got my hands back on my meds i was already day four or five on 0-zzz's and remember how well i slept the following night. Those that weaned off discuss sleep insomnia if it was part of the withdrawl process.

gman again 3 years ago

I'm sorry you had to sample the withdrawals of suboxone, they just keep going on and on because of the drug's long half-life. I'm on Day 11 of 0mg and still unable to go to work. I'm slowly improving, though, and promised to work Sat and Sun (the day after tomorrow). I force myself to do housework and take a walk, but it really knocks me out physically, yet I can't sleep well. Insomnia is definitely a w/d symptom.

The first time my doc tapered me to 0mg (way too fast, from 4mg), I suffered for a couple of days and then called him. He said to take more sub and we'll taper more slowly. After taking just 2mg, I felt great later in the day; my body just unwound and relaxed. I then knew how addicted I was to sub.

Your lack of sexual desire may very well be due to the sub also. I know it affected mine greatly. Now that I'm off the drug, the sexual feelings are coming back with gusto even though I'm sick.

- 3 years ago

This is one of the most inaccurate articles I have ever read.

1) Buprenorphine is both an "activator" and "blocker" of mu-opioid receptors.

2) Naloxone is not orally active, only when shot. It was added to dissaude people from banging the tablets. And it doesn't work the way it's supposed to anyway.

Buprenorphine is a long-acting drug providing pain-relief from anywhere between 6-12hrs. Long acting because it sticks to the opiate receptors and slowly dissociates.

SubEater 3 years ago

It's now been 16 days off sub and I still feel shitty. The worst is definitly over but I cant believe I still have slight chills, sweating under the arms, and no energy at all over 2 weeks later. This was comming off of less than 1mg. I split a 2mg pill into 4 pieces which even that was hard--thats why I only did that for a week before comming off it completely.

I know everyone is different but I'm only 29, good shape, and mentally prepared knowing I'm done with dope. I just can't figure out why I'm still having slight withdrawl symptoms over 2 weeks later from such a low dose. It has to be out of my body by now right? So why am I still sweating, having chills, and still have the runs!? I'm starting to get frustrated not being able to function after the doc telling me it wont be bad at all and I'll just feel like I have a slight cold for a few DAYS--not weeks. Even walking the dog for 5 minutes takes it out of me!

michigan4204 3 years ago

Hey guys. I had been addicted to any type of pain killer for about two years. I got on suboxone this past christmas. I was taking 24mgs of sub a day for about 3 weeks then i started to try to taper myself off (i honeslty cant afford to go back to the doc and gegt a refill on my script) of them. I have been completely clean for 7 days. The first 4 days were a cake and then came the 5th day. I now have to same pains and sleeplessness that i had trying to get off the pain pills. Like I said this is now my 7th day being clean and i just keep feling worse. How much longer can I expect feeling like this? Any help would be great. Thanks!!!

Angry as heck 3 years ago

These doctors and drug companies make me sick. They have no idea. I am down to 2 mgs a day and am about to quit Subs. Reading things like still in withdraw after 16 days doesn't make me very confident. Doctors should inform people what they are getting into. I kick myself for not doing more research before getting on Subs. And when people say the withdrawal is not as bad as heroin or Meth they are evidently wrong. The withdrawal is as bad it is just different and worse much longer lasting. Damn these doctors and drug companies. And damn myself for believing the pill of crap they fed me. So, here goes another two weeks+ of my life wasted on trying to get clean again. Clean from a prescribed medicine that I thought was a drug that was suppose to help me. Curses.

mike in boston 3 years ago

i am so depressed that i cant shake this stuff. i've been on suboxone for 2 years and 9 months all this time i brag to people how im clean. but as you all know our life does get better but now we're addicted to this !!!!im so fed up with this! i am on three 8 mgs a day now the doc i was seeng had me on 4 and a half a day please someone help me get of this alltogether im so serious someone must have a good plan cause god knows im just a soboslave email mikedhrty4@yahoo.com ty ty ty ty ty ty t y

gman again 3 years ago

I am finally off the suboxone. I made it 12 days on 0mg in January, but I was still so sick that I gave in and took 4mg. An hour and a half later, I felt great. The next day I got a migraine from restarting the sub. After that, I got so anxious about being back on this drug which I hate that I wanted to die.

I then found ibogaine treatment on the internet and went to Mexico for a week to a treatment center called Pangea Biomedics (formally Ibogaine Assoc). It was a miracle for me. Ibogaine is from a root bark in Africa and it is hallucenagenic, therefore illegal in the US. It is legal in Canada and other countries as well. The ibogaine knocks opiates out of the receptors, and then is converted to noribogaine in the liver, which blocks opiate receptors for a couple of months to allow the addict to get his/her life back together. The psychedelic part helped me deal with past trauma with the help the the therapists there. Google ibogaine and check it out for yourself. It is the ultimate detox.

r 3 years ago

Suboxone is no miracle drug. I've been on it for nearly 6 months for now, and have made multiple attempts at getting off it. I'm actually in day 3 right now. I won't sleep at all tonight due to restless legs, my stomach is doing what every addict is familiar with, the false pains may or may not come tomorrow. The withdrawal symptoms from suboxone are absolutely no different for me than coming off of opiates themselves. The one good thing about it is its a way cheaper way to avoid withdrawal than buying regular opiates, especially without a script.

I say this not to rain on anyone's parade, but to be blunt and honest about this drug. In the end, you will either need to make a choice to withdrawal or to remain on suboxone as a maintenance drug, which I'm just not willing to do any longer. It is a delayer of the inevitable. While it is very possible to make withdrawal less unpleasant for some, I can only speak of my experience and that of the people I know. The vast majority are still on it.

r 3 years ago

Just to also provide a little info on the "tapering down" method.......in my case it just doesn't seem to matter. I've tapered down to the point where I can take an 8 mg sub and break it into little pieces and make it last a week. I've been at that point for months. I have made attempts a coming off of opiates directly, suboxone directly, and tapering off of suboxone. The symptoms are exactly the same for me, the same order of occurrence, seemingly same intensity.

Do any of you think that the drug companies WANT you to be able to break dependency? It makes more sense for them to shift what you are dependent on, which is what suboxone does.

SubEater 3 years ago

Well, it's been a little over a month off the sub now. I feel like I'm about %70. The chills and sweating are pretty much gone, unless I get a bit of anxiety then I'll sweat a little. My hunger came back and I can eat pretty good again. Like others have said, the withdrawls seem very similar to any other opiate. For me the worst symptoms were my legs cramping up, the runs, and no energy.

While I'm slowly getting energy back I still have to push myself to even walk the dog for 10 minutes per day just in the yard. My biggest concern is still having the runs a month later. If I take Immodium I'm fine but I don't want to take it everyday. So the day I take it I'm fine, but then the next day the runs come back.

And I agree with you Angry As Heck, I was mislead by my doctor too. I went to my original doctor after falling off the wagon for 3 months after 6 years clean. I ran into an ex-gf and I figured I was moving out of state in a few months anyway. Horrible mistake. Anyway I go to my doc and ask for a 1 week supply of Sub to help with the WD's. He said I should stay on it for at least a year so the chemicals in my brain can readjust. I figured I would take myself off in a week and just save the rest. Well when I took the Sub I felt great! I mean I went from beginning stages of WD to being peppy and energetic. Of course I didn't stop taking them in a week, which lead to nearly a year and half on sub.

When I moved out of state the only doctors I could find were shrinks. I went from paying $80/visit to $220 visit at this shrink. Plus $400/month for the script. Money aside, I couldnt believe some of the comments this shrink would make. She said I most likely wouldnt even have to take time off from work as it will just feel like a cold, and that most horror stories kicking sub are from people with mental issues. On top of all that she would practiaclly brag to the group how many patients she had lined up at both of her practices. It was sickening. To be honest, that was the main reason I jumped off Sub when I did--she seemed like an absolute quack. Anyway, just wanted to update my situation and wish everyone the best. :)

I.Claudius 3 years ago

Subeater, I feel your pain. I stopped two weeks ago to the day and I sit hear sweating under the arms, stomach discomfort (no runs, but not normal either), insomnia. I was only on sub for 4 months, 3 of which were at 2mg from there I tapered to .12 -- not .25, so we're talking breaking a 2mg pill in to 16 pieces. I stayed with each drop for a week to let the hal-life catch up and then jumped. People always say it's not worse than oxy withdrawal, but that gets cancelled out by HOW F'N LONG the F'N withdrawal IS. At least with oxy, you can almost set a watch and know when you'll round the corner -- not so with suboxone. It just keeps giving ans giving. Did you enjoy the neverending insomnia or feeling like natives are stabbing your back with sticks -- that's always pleasant. Suboxone has done its job in some ways -- I never, ever want this hell again. It is a quackfest out there too. People who don't even have a clue of what this feels like just tell you to stay on it for a year or more. Most of them have 'doctor' or 'PhD' in their title -- LOL. It all doesn't matter as I've taken responsibility for everything because the 'professionals' just can't cut it. I'll never give my power over again. If that isn't an incentive to get sober, what is?

Claudius

shannon 3 years ago

Does anyone know any kind of medical insurance I can get privately? I live in WA state and I work as a server, so no mediacal from work. I have been on sub for 1.5 years, but never had my own script. My ex does, and he gets enough for both of us, but we broke up 6 months ago. He was still helping me for free, but recently moved out of state. I don't want to go off, my life has been so stable and wonderful since I started taking them. I don't get high (I take 2-3 mgs/day.) I am currently not working because I am going to school full time with a 3.6 GPA. I live in a tiny house and live use my financial aid to barely pay my bills. I don't have kids, so I doubt I could get DSHS to help me... I don't know what to do. My email is shenanins@yahoo.com if anyone has advice that might be helpful for my situation.

beaner 3 years ago

i have been on suboxone for 4 years , and i just went 17 days no sleep sweating chills and let say i had to give in and take little 17 days no sleep is totaly impossible to work , so let me tell everyone suboxone is an evil drug and is in my mind impossible to get off unless u can afford not to work i could walk my legs were killing so much , and how can the human body gop 30 days or longer with no sleep , i really dont know what to do because i wanted off the evil drug that was suppose to be the dream drug well truthfully this drug is nothing but a drug company scam and everyone should know the real truth is extremely painful and be prepared to not sleep and to not work or walk so i have to say this drug is a scary addiction not any different than any other opid actually is worst the withdral last over 30 days i had to give in and take 1 milgram so i did loose my job so how do u get off this evil drug sub well plan on no work and no sleep and alot of pain in your legs and sweating for 2 weeks !!!!

I. Claudius 3 years ago

Beaner,

I believe you brother. Now on day 24 and I'm still sweating. Anxiety kicked in too. I swear it took over 2 weeks for my pupils to unpin. *insane*.

This drug is the fucking devil.

Period. Make not mistake. I was on methadone for one year 15 years ago and I did a blind detox over 30 days to get off -- it was *nothing*, *nothing* as bad as suboxone. Beaner, taper down as much as you can before you jump and get some Ambien. It will take brute force will or animal instinct to get through this. Pray to God, whatever you have to do, but get off it because it's not going to get better the longer you're on. It amazes me that there are pom pom waving cheerleaders out there pushing this 'treatment'. Suboxone treatment reminds me of A Clockwork Orange.

Claudius.

dustybug 3 years ago

I just read every single post and I'm really dreading this. I've been on subs for a little more than a year. I'm down to about one 2mg each day, sometimes 2. I can go every other day with just one 2mg. But by day 2 the restless legs sets in and I work a full time job, I cannot be a (non)walking zombie. I'm so upset about this because I'm a f**ing slave to my doctor at $75 a month (which I understand is cheap and my prescription only costs $30). But I can't stand being dependent on this crap.

Has ANYONE tried using Requip to combat the restless legs and sleep problem associated with the withdraw symptoms??? My doc (ironically the same one who scripts me subs) gave me a script for Requip to try out. It gives me very mild nausea, so I stopped taking it. But, I'm thinking I can deal with the mild nausea a lot better than the crazy insomnia and restless legs. Anyone have success or experience with Requip when jumping off subs? Thank you in advance.

dustybug

enchantedmissi 3 years ago

my GOD this is all so discouraging! now i can see why the one time i did try to get off sub it just kept getting worse and worse. and i only made it to the end of day 3! i wish i had known that was going to likely be one of the worst days. i'm gonna give it a shot again. reading everyone's experiences here is giving me a strength and sense of comradery. i'm down to 2 mg a day (after 2 years), but apparently that isn't really going to make it much easier. i'm going to try skipping every other day to combat that half life somewhat. i'm going to try to check back and update. God bless any of you going thru w/d right now. you are already this far...you can do it!

I. Claudius 3 years ago

Getting off is doable, it's just rough. Taper,taper,taper. I'm on day 28 and I regret being so negative in my previous post, but hey, it was a heck of a day. Physically, all major symptoms except for lingering depression (always been there anyway) have gone. The longer you can stretch out the taper the better. Don't take benadryl for restless legs -- it will make it worse, my experience. Get Ambien or Percogesic. Percogesic is an OTC antihistamine / tylenol combo. It has a better antihistamine for sleep then Benadryl, again, my opinion. Clear your calendar for a week if you can. The first three days can't count, you can't trust on day three what 4 through 10 will be like. The symptoms are not violent, they just last a long time. Getting your expectations in order will help. Who knows, your experience may be totally different -- it seems like a crap shoot anyway, some people it's mild and brief some people not so. I apologize for scaring the p*ss out of anybody.

Claudius.

dustybug 3 years ago

5 days ago I stopped taking suboxone because I was having a partial thyroid lobectomy. I had to stop the suboxone in order for anesthesia and paid killers not to compete. They (the suboxone website) recommend stopping suboxone 36 hours prior to surgery, but I read other forums and said that is TOTALLY not enough time, so I gave myself 2 extra days. So I had suboxone out of my system for 4 days before I went into surgery.

I didn't have any problems going under. My surgery is a very mild/short procedure that only takes 45 minutes. They don't cut through a lot of muscle so there isn't a LOT of pain, but I was still scared sh!tless. They prescribed me 20 perk 5s and let me tell you, Day 1

dustybug 3 years ago

5 days ago I stopped taking suboxone because I was having a partial thyroid lobectomy. I had to stop the suboxone in order for anesthesia and paid killers not to compete. They (the suboxone website) recommend stopping suboxone 36 hours prior to surgery, but I read other forums and said that is TOTALLY not enough time, so I gave myself 2 extra days. So I had suboxone out of my system for 4 days before I went into surgery.

I didn't have any problems going under. My surgery is a very mild/short procedure that only takes 45 minutes. They don't cut through a lot of muscle so there isn't a LOT of pain, but I was still scared sh!tless. They prescribed me 20 perk 5s and let me tell you, Day 1 I

dustybug 3 years ago

...continued from last post...

Day 1 after surgery had me very concerned that I would be in a lot of pain due to my opiate tolerance. I managed to find perk 15s and that helped a lot more with the pain. Now is Day 2 and the only thing I'm battling is the restless leg problem from this God damn suboxone withdraw!!! I even took the Requip for RLS but it barely helped. The only thing that is keeping my restless legs at bay is the perk 15s, which I don't have anymore of.

I wish I never went on suboxone. My addiction was on the mild side compared to other users in this post. I was using taking oxy 80s or splitting them in half when I knew I wasn't going to find them. Usually one 80 would last me 1 or 2 days. I'm mad my doctor didn't tell me how much hell the withdraw from suboxone would be. I will keep everyone updated on what happens (when I stop taking pain killers, if I go back to suboxone.) I really DON'T want to go back on suboxone, but I just don't know if I can deal with the withrdraw yet...

dustybug

gman again 3 years ago

You can read my older comments from above. I could not get off suboxone after being on it a year and a half for depression (off label use). I made it 12 days on 0mg in January, but saw no improvement after the first 5 intense days. I broke down and took 4mg and felt great in less than two hours. But I got so anxious about being back on it a couple of days later, that I felt sick even on this drug.

A friend mentioned ibogaine treatment. I researched it and was on a plane to San Diego a few days later. It's illegal in the U.S., so we crossed the border into Mexico to get to the clinic. It works!!! In less than four hours after taking it, all my withdrawals disappeared. The psychedelic part helped me deal with some psychological issues and the whole experience changed my life. I am SO done with traditional psychiatry. I am actually selling my house and moving to San Diego to meet with the therapists from the clinic, as well as starting Hakomi Therapy, for about a year. Good luck to all.

queenie 3 years ago

i am on day 6 of sub w/d and i am still so sick i had to take a tiny piece of methadone (2mg) for my sanity! i was only taking a tiny piece of sub (less than 1 mg a day). i cant beleive this im a seasoned vet when it comes to w/d, 37 years old, batteling opiate demons for 17 years, this is by far the worst ever! i am forcing myself to eat and sleeping very little. Oh well, at least im not in jail!

Ms Reen 3 years ago

I took Tramadol, methadone and herion for over a 10 yr period. About 6 years ago after taking Trams for about 4 yrs at 1200millies a day I went to rehab the withdrawal was just like many in this blog discribe Suboxone to be. I went through three wks of 10 mins of sleep per day, restlessness, cramps, the shits, and nerve tingles which made it unbearable to sleep. The worste of it was gone afer about 22 days. Then the depression started. I was clean for about 4 months before I started the Trams again. After my tolerance level required about 1400 mgs a day. I started the methadone which only help lower the Tramadol dosage. Another horror in itself. I deside to stop the meth and increase thr Trams to prevent the withdrawal from the meth. Didn't work. It only esculated to Heroin. I took Heroin and trams for about 6 months until I went into Detox and Rehab January 7, 2009. The docs put me on Suboxone maintenance at 24mgs daily split into 2 doses of 12mgs. So I have been taking that dose now for 2 months to the day. It does work in a sense that I don't have any craving to use other opiates, but I sleep most of the time. I haven't taken any for about 15 hours now, so I don't feel anything just yet. But I can't take this sleepiness all of the time so I decided to stop for a few days. I came on this hub in search for answers about what the withdrawals would be like if I stopped all together. After reading the horror stories I sounds as if though I would go through the same withdrawals I went through after I stoped the tramadol. Damn, I don't know if my mind can withstand that type of hell again, but I am going to give it a try to see if it is as bad as I have read in this hub. I will be back in a couple of days to give an update.

queenie 3 years ago

Ms Reen- good luck to you and please tell me how you are doing. Because of my job in the health care industry i must be clean. otherwise, i would not put myself through this again. I am starting to think i really am mentally ill that i would continue to put myself in this situation. I was clean for 4 years and decieded to dabble a little and here i am again.... Like you were saying the depression is very hard to conquer.

PhillyPunk 3 years ago

Well I am really looking forward to the next few weeks let me tell you. I have been on Suboxone for about a year and a half now. I will be turning 28 in 2 days March 10th and well I need to grow up. I going back to school full time start april 7th and well have to quit my job to do so. Witch means I will no longer have a income or my medical insurance. I started to taper down 2mgs a week starting on fridays. I have weekends off from work and figure it be best to do if I will have to be ill. Everything was fine the past few weeks doing this. I was at 24 mg a day and have lowered myself down now to 4 mg a day after tapering for weeks now. Well had no withdrawl at all each weekend til I reached this 4 mg mark. The worse side effect for me is the anxiety. i had always suffer with anxiety but it seems the Sub has made it worse then can be. Also I have kind of been getting these blackouts were I zone out and driving for me has become a danger. I am sufferring more from the mental aspect of what Suboxene does to ones mind. I have researched this and learned long term use of this drug will cause depression and long lasting anxiety witch becomes worse after you stop. Rite now I am in fear for my mental health more then my physical. Rite now I feel as if I have been in a comma and that the suboxene has disconnected me from reality, I don't care if i have to feel sick and can't sleep. it the price you have to pay when you play with opiates, I just wish i was more informed on what the mental side effects were,because for me and the hell i have to live with day in and day out,could really make me a danger to myself.

Ms Reen 3 years ago

Queenie &, PhillyPunk the depression is worst when you stop the opiate use, (Including Suboxone). Meaning if you had already suffered with anxiety & depression before the opiate use think of it as 5 to 10 times worst than that. As I said in my last post, I was clean for 4 months, after going through the major withdrawals for almost a month I thought the worst was over. It had only just begun. My body felt 100% better but my mind was out of control. Rehabs or the doctors don't tell you if at all that the depression & anxiety will be tremendous. I suffered with Manic Depression for many years before I started using. Stupid me avoided drugs until I was 29yrs old due to my crazy brain. What led me down this monotonous path was severe osteo athritis and the docs prescibing me any opiate short of meth & heroin. After using the Vicodin and Tramadol for about 4 months for pain I stopped not knowing I was addicted to them. I got very sick after stopping the pills & when I took 2 pills I would feel better. Once I realized I was addicted I did not seek help due to embarrassment and thinking I could do it myself. I didn't know anything about addiction at that time. I always thought it was all in the mind and that people could stop if they wanted to. I'm kicking myself in the ass till this day for that belief. I'm on Suboxone maintenance because of the hell I put my brain through with the drug. A LOT of drugs. The doctors initially thought that because I used so many pills ( about 24 to 28) in a day and used up to 6 bags of H a day that I was trying to kill myself. Not to mention that because of using so much I had to take about 16 Motrin a day to conquer the migains I would get from taking so much. I guess subconsciously I was, but at the time I was taking that much because of my tolerance level. The Suboxone is making me sleep all day. I take 24mgs a day. So I stopped taking them for a few days to see how I would feel. Well, I took my last 12mg dose on Friday. Saturday I was able to stay up for most of the day and because I take Seroquel for sleep (and other reasons) I had a very good night sleep. Sunday I got up early and stayed awake all day. by the evening though I started feeling the anxiety, but I got another good nights sleep. Today, I'm shakey with anxiety but I'm not felling the physical withdrawals yet. I hope I don't. Because of knowing what to expect with the depression I can handle the anxiety better. It's the physical part for me that is the ass-kicker. I am not fearful of many thing, but that really scares me. Philly my man, all I can say about the anxiety and depression is "shrink it up." Go see the psycs and exlain what is happening. Trust me they will help. Stay strong Queenie you know what you have to do. STAY CONNECTED!!!

Lisa 3 years ago

I am trying to get off of suboxone AGAIN. About 7 years ago I got off of heroin with no problem. But, these Suboxone withdrawals are intense and lasting weeks. Last time I tried to get off of sub I gave up after 3 weeks. I couldn't handle the pain anymore. My doctor metioned something called Naltrexone. Does anyone know about this stuff. He said that it is supposed to reduce withdrawal symptoms but, my research says otherwise.

queenie 3 years ago

hi guys, today is day 8 or 9 not really sure. i can tell you my only symtoms are now weak stomach( lost 15 pounds) and depression. I hate myself! why, why, why?! Its so much easier to stay clean than to get clean. I remember every other opiate being bad too. Even H for me was a 10 day- 2 week process. I just dont handle this well. I almost wish i was around other people in a rehab, atleast i have company and disstraction. I am lonley but have no energy to get out of the house. Good luck y'all, its not easy but i do remember when i get back to normal it feels great! When is the million dollar question....

Queenie 3 years ago

i think this is day 9 of sub w/d for me. The worst is over but im not out of the woods. i feel uncomfortable in my skin and restless. I find buy taking long walks with ipod helps relieve some unwantd anxiety, im in Florida so thats do-able. Though my withdrawls are not violent they are still ever present and my skin is giving off a nasty smell. Long, hot baths also help ease some of the discomfort. I hope with Gods help i stay strong and never do this again ( i have gone through this many times). When you think about it....is the pain of everyday life any more difficult then this pain of withdrawl? i think the pain and depression that comes along wih withdrawl far exceeds anything life can dish out in sobriety

Shasta 3 years ago

Hi everyone! God bless all of you and I hope WE all find our way back to peace or forward to a peaceful future! "I will believe in you, if you will believe in me." said the Unicorn to Alice. 'Alice In Wonderland'. I thought It was appropriate. We are all in uncharted waters, arent we? I have been on Suboxone for 4 months after a wierd 4 years of off and on again vicodin and oxycodone. My family has and is battled with cancer so there was a ton of pain killers laying all over the place all the time. It starts out 1 or up to 2 an before you know it, its 4 to 6 with 10-20 milligrams! What the heck! You are not yourself. Its like its you , but you are inside looking out, but its not you running the show. You kinda remember when 5miligrams would knock you on your butt. I am trying to get off the suboxone. I think it is more addictive than they tell you. I am talking about me and I think it might be a great answer for some! Dont forget it was the medical community that introduced HEROIN as a NON ADDICTIVE alternative to morphine!!!! Yep its true, look it up! I am down to 4mg a day and I felt the drop to 6 from 8mg I started with. I wish I would have just did the 5day withdrawl from vicodin 4 months ago. I found that I would have weird compulsive behavior on Suboxone at 8mgs. Adrenaline stuff like wanting to shoplift or gamble or drive fast. That is definitely Not me. I dont have any of those feelings now. I am afraid of going cold turkey after reading all these posts. I have read some that say they were ok after 5 days, but these are all people who were on it less than 6 months. I hope you all will be and are doing better. I am really gonna say a prayer for all of us. Remember: "Always rage against the dying of the Light!" I dont know who said it, but I love it and it fits!

queenie 3 years ago

i wish you the best Shasta. Today is 11 days off for me and i feel much better. My body has calmed itself though my stomach is still upset and i lost 15 pounds during this hell. I had weened myself down to approx. 1 mg (breaking into little pieces) and still my body kicked like it was H, just not as violent. Its 2 am and i am up after my 2 hours of sleep. This, and my sick stomach are actually welcomed and a sigh of relief after the fist week of sweats,hot and cold,vomiting and restless legs. Yeah! im on my way to being happy joyess and free! ps. my legs are still restless

queenie 3 years ago

Today is 2 weeks and i feel pretty darn good.

Dog 3 years ago

I have been addicted to opiates for a about a year and a half. I kicked the habit the first time about a year ago by using subs for 2 weeks. The dumb arse that I am, I was also taking Xanax to go to sleep at night, while on the sub. When I came off the sub, I also came of the Xanax and experienced the absolute worst anxiety I have ever experienced. I absolutely could not sleep for 2 weeks no matter what I took - Xanax, 50mg of Serequel, etc. Because of this, I got back on the opiates and have been on every since. Around October of 08, it really began affecting my work performance, as I would withdraw at work almost ever day in attempts to get off and snort an 80 to go to bed at night. In 0ctober of 08, I began taking about 2mgsof sub ni the morning and would still snort my 80 at night, so that I would withdraw. I came off everything again in Mid Dec, and fvcked up again in Jan. I have been on and off of subs and oxys since then. If I do oxys, I am up to 240 mgs a day. I am sick and tired of this sh1t and want my life back, so I began the subs 2 days ago and am taking them like you are suppose to, at least 8mgs a day for the first week, then will ween down.

A couple of things, I have plenty experienc withdrawing off of both substances, and the withdrawals are completely different. When you withdraw off of oxys, you have the physically problems, especially sweating and the sh1ts, anxiety, coupled with severe depression. When you come off the subs, you are not nearly as depressed because you are not coming off of the "high". The only depression you have is due to the physical problems. With subs, you sh1t a little more, can't sleep, but you do not sweat. You also have a tremedous amount of anxiety. IMO, coming off the sub is much easier because you are in a much better mental state; not coming down of the opiate high. You physical withdrawals are mainly anxiety and insomnia. The best thing to do coming off subs is to get your arse up and keep moving. I am prepared for my sub detox this time. I have alot of adderral to get my arse up in the moring, somas for the day, and valium for sleep. I wiill use these for about 7-10 days, then quit. I am so ready for this sh1t to be over.

Queenie 3 years ago

Today is 18 days off sub. Im sleeping 5 or6 hours a night and taking pepcid ac for my stomach ( works great). Im able to eat again. My stamina is not back 100% but its prob safe to say " i did it ! " PRAISE GOD! You guys can do it too! Not easy but doable

sandy 3 years ago

I stopped taking sub 4 weeks ago. The worst 4 weeks of my life.I am just starting to feel better. I thought I was going crazy.1-2 hours sleep for days. Severe depression. The restless legs were horrid.

Fun Times 3 years ago

Listen. I'm 72 days into a 17 year run. H to meth to H and meth, snorting Xanax for "fun"...only 10 years of that, and taking the Elavil and Seroquil....just to wake up and face the day. Fun Times. Detoxed from suboxone...after taking it 3 and a half years. 8 to zero was kinda stiff....so I broke and took 2 mgs a day after about a week, skipped a week, then took 1mg for a week. IMO...it's a wet dream compared to kicking H or METH (wheh....). Really. I was back to work after 2.5 weeks, wearing a tie... This stuff aint fun. I kicked EVERYTHING at once, the C included. 1-2 hours of sleep aint fun. Hard kick that other stuff...1 or 2 hours is what I got in 5.5 days before I broke.

IMO you have to take on the attitude that you will have to be the baddest SOB alive for awhile. Hard as a rock. Period. Period. Your success and your level of anguish will be defined by JUST HOW MOTIVATED ARE YOU. BE MOTIVATED. F**k the world...kick. Tip: OF COURSE IT SUCKS, OKAY...THAT'S A GIVEN. COMPLAINING IS USELESS....SO DON'T. IT MAKES YOU FEEL WORSE AND NOBODY WANTS TO HEAR IT ANYWAY. And finally...get in a program already. My favorite line from an NA book is "our best ideas got us here". Mine did. Now I listen to someoene else's best ideas...that actually worked. 72 days has its ups and down, it beats day 2, but it gets better. PS. I still sleep 1-2 hours a day. And I tell myself...if it aint ruff it aint me. Tell yourself that.

Fun Times 3 years ago

Listen. I'm 72 days into a 17 year run. H to meth to H and meth, snorting Xanax for "fun"...only 10 years of that, and taking the Elavil and Seroquil....just to wake up and face the day. Fun Times. Detoxed from suboxone...after taking it 3 and a half years. 8 to zero was kinda stiff....so I broke and took 2 mgs a day after about a week, skipped a week, then took 1mg for a week. IMO...it's a wet dream compared to kicking H or METH (wheh....). Really. I was back to work after 2.5 weeks, wearing a tie... This stuff aint fun. I kicked EVERYTHING at once, the C included. 1-2 hours of sleep aint fun. Hard kick that other stuff...1 or 2 hours is what I got in 5.5 days before I broke.

IMO you have to take on the attitude that you will have to be the baddest SOB alive for awhile. Hard as a rock. Period. Period. Your success and your level of anguish will be defined by JUST HOW MOTIVATED ARE YOU. BE MOTIVATED. F**k the world...kick. Tip: OF COURSE IT SUCKS, OKAY...THAT'S A GIVEN. COMPLAINING IS USELESS....SO DON'T. IT MAKES YOU FEEL WORSE AND NOBODY WANTS TO HEAR IT ANYWAY. And finally...get in a program already. My favorite line from an NA book is "our best ideas got us here". Mine did. Now I listen to someoene else's best ideas...that actually worked. 72 days has its ups and down, it beats day 2, but it gets better. PS. I still sleep 1-2 hours a day. And I tell myself...if it aint ruff it aint me. Tell yourself that.

queenie 3 years ago

Today is 3 weeks. I am starting to feel happy again. Still sleeping only about 4 hours but that i can deal with. I like what this cat (FUN TIMES) says about " if it aint hard it aint me ". Thats real talk right there....gangsta! If your gonna play your gonna pay.

jaybow 3 years ago

Holy shit. Everything everyone posted is EXACTLY what I'm going through. I'm on day 17 or 18 on 0 of the sub. I admit I did take vicodin, about 10 mg's or 20 mgs a day for about a week. It helped get me through the worst of it, but what I'm going through now still sucks ass. I feel better, but still feel like shit. I'm starting to get some exercise which is excruciating but helpful... I hope. I can't stop sneezing. Does anyone else get that symptom?

BTW, a little history on me. I've been using opiates for 15 years along with a plethora of other drugs, but opiates just feel like home to me. I guess enough said.

Fun Times has it right. You have to have will like you never thought you had. Grow some balls, I don't care if you're a woman or a unic, grow a pair and get off the shit. The only way to do it is the hard way. Piece of advice, take at least a couple weeks off of work unless people at work are either clueless or understanding of your situation.

Don't give up, stay the course. It's not going to get any worse. BTW, stop bitching and just do it. If I can anybody can... and I mean ANYBODY can. I'm not necessarily known for my willpower.

Queenie 3 years ago

Yes Jaybow, Im 22 days off and still sneezing! That and 5 hour sleeps are all thats left of w/d symtoms.

jaybow 3 years ago

God smiled on me last night. I work construction and went back to work doing some manual labor type stuff yesterday. It sucked bad. I came home, ate dinner and fell asleep around 11:00. I didn't wake up until 9:00 this morning.

So I guess my advice to the insomniacs is hard manual labor. It bites because your tired. I had only gotten about 10 hours of sleep total the last week. I slept like a baby last night though and the only difference is the exercise.

Irish Girl 3 years ago

Sneezing, tell me about it. I can't stop. I was an oxy addict for the best of two years. Went on methadone for 7 months then slowly to suboxone. Literally, sept-Jan I took no more than 2mg/day. Then the taper began, what a rude awakening- just to realize how dependent we are. You have to remember suboxone is such a powerful drug 40x that of morphine. So i'm hurting like the rest of us, but tapering is key. What I did the last 3 months is wait until withdrawal gets to where I can't handle it and take the smallest peice (prob .25mg) and do it again in 72 hours. This has worked, i'm not sleeping great, don't feel very motivated, and depressed. But, I can function and i'm on day 4 of nothing. Part of my is so deathly afraid it will hit me like a ton of bricks, but I will brace myself. I've had enough of being dependent ! Get it done now or get it done later... its always going to be worse later. Keep your chins up everyone, just being here is half the battle, not using that is. Good luck & God Bless!

FUN TIMES 3 years ago

Okay. I'm glad this site exists, especially if it helps anyone (GOD willing)...but I'll be honest...I'm glad I didn't read it 70 days ago...because I didn't need ANY negative thoughts back then. I had a singular purpose...I was going to quit suboxoxe and everything else...understanding that in theory it may kill me...but knowing it wouldn't. Now...I'm cool. To me, the bitch about it wasn't the pain. 100% Honestly...I couldn't feel pain (I can now)...my body was shut down NUMB. I took showers with the heat full blast and no cold 3 times (or more) a day. I can't do that today...it burns...but my pain receptors just shut down back then. I was numb for many days.

In the beginning this was a twofold SOB. First, I think something worse than pain is being UNCOMFORTABLE. That's kicking H in a nutshell. It doesn't hurt per se, but F**K it's uncomfortable. And it stays uncomfortable...forever (it seems). I know there's the back pain, stomach cramps, leg cramps...etc., but I would have just about traded my soul back then to be a clean man with a cramp. Shit. I'll settle into some pain...but this ongoing feeling of being severely uncomfortable was not fun. Whatever, it's over.

The mind F**K that this stuff can (at times) put you through can be unpleasant as well. TIP: I went through ULTRA RAPID DETOX (REALLY FUN TIMES THERE!!!!!!) where they put you under anesthetic and pump you full of naltrexone until all of the opiates are out of your body. They cycled me THREE times that night...one is normal. Wow! That was not fun at all...I found out later it was like going through an epilectic or diabetic seizure...for about two or three hours straight, give or take. I was leaving AMA after dropping 7.5 grand, and the doctor/sadist raced in and gave me a sheet of things to do to stay clean. NUMBER 1: SHOWER EVERY DAY AS SOON AS YOU WAKE UP....EVEN WHEN IT'S THE LAST THING YOU WANT TO DO. That was worth the 7 grand. I took alot of showers these last weaks. There is both a physical, but more importantly PSCHYCOLOGICAL BENEFIT to showering often. It confuses your mind. One minute it's "poor this me...this sucks" and the next "what the hell am I doing in this water". It makes you forget the "this sucks" for at least a brief respite. I was confusing the shit out of my mind. While laying on the floor (which was the most comfortable place to be) I would decide..okay...time to lift weights. It was really strange. I was lifting weights, and my mind mind was sort of thinking..."what's going on man...what are you doin?". The hard part was getting off the floor. TIP: Confuse your mind. Do silly shit...really. Walk...run...fly...just move. Go here, go there, get out out of the house. My legs were sore, so I casually wrapped some turnicets around them as tight as I could, figuring it would cut off the blood supply and reduce the cramps. Thighs and calves at one point. I'm not promising it cured anything (I thought it was a fun idea), but it took my mind off my problem...being upset that my legs hurt. MOST OF ALL LAUGH. I GOT TO THE POINT ONE NIGHT ABOUT THREE AM AND JUST STARTED LAUGHING SO HARD AT THIS KICK...IT WAS BRUTAL...IT WAS HYSTERICAL THAT ANYTHING COULD BE SUCH A Son of a BITCH. Wow...For real. Now I would like to thank GOD for starting to fill that empty space where the drugs used to go. I didn't know it, but HE carried me through this situation. Trust in HIM....and everyone...I WILL PRAY FOR ALL OF YOU. For real. Even though I don't need to, because all you MF*****S ARE STRONG, WHETHER YOU REALIZE IT OR NOT.

Dillon 3 years ago

i was a very highly addicted opiate addict and i thank god for suboxone!

queenie 3 years ago

one step at a time dillon. Have tried getting off yet? Or maybe the concensus is wrong....

K 3 years ago

I'm currently working in India for the next 6 months (i've been here about three weeks) and couldn't get any more scrips for suboxone. I still have a full bottle of 8mg but figured i should get off sooner rather than later since i can't get any while i'm out here. I was snorting over 180mg of oxy a day and h if i couldn't find oxy for almost 2 years (that doesn't include the 6 years of abusing every other drug know to man). I've been on subs for a little of 5 months and am current;y on day 6 of withdrawal. I am so f-ing miserable. I can't stop sneezing, running to the bathroom and i can't sleep more tha 3 hours at a time. The worst for me is the overwhelming anxiety that i have been dealing with my whole life but is now intensified beyond belief. I am in India with a few people from work and have NO ONE to talk to and no support system here (no English AA or NA meetings either). I'm so glad i found this site..i spent the past two hours ready EVERY single post and feeling a little less alone. I've gone through opiate withdrawal almost 8 times already and this is like nothing i have dealt with before...it just keeps going and going.. Also every other time i detoxed a smoked pot every hour, had xanax or gabapentine. I feel like this is never going to end. Any words of advise??

Queenie 3 years ago

It will end K and hold on. I believe around day 8 it becomes easier to deal with. I think the key is to keep moving even though you dont want to. My muscles became sore so i used Icy Hot and drank alot of water. Also i used pepto and Pepcid ac for my stomach around 8 to 15 days in to w/d. If its any consolation, im 4 weeks monday and im so glad i stayed strong i feel great!

K 3 years ago

Thanks Queenie :) I think the worst part for me is the constant sour stomch and inability to sleep more than 3 hours at a time (the rest of the symptoms i can deal with). That is what i loved about opiates and suboxone...just being able to sleep well for a full night and stop all the racing thought in my head. Will i ever get that feeling back?? It's been seven days and i'm so tempted to take just a tiny little piece to help myself sleep tonight. Will that just prolong my w/d?

queenie 3 years ago

Well K, i took tiny pieces of methadone (like 1 mg) when i had really bad times i did this up untill about 10 days. I read some people took sub but that is what your trying to rid your body of so thats why i choose the done just to aid me through. Tommorrow makes one month and im still not sleeping more than 5 hours at a time but ive done this afew times in my life and the havoc we put our bodies through does not undue itself overnight. I lost 15 pounds the first two weeks so i know what your going through with the stomach. I am now eating great and have gained 5 back. Stay strong you will be restored to the person you were ment to be! ps. get pepcid ac for your stomach

K 3 years ago

Yea the stomach pain and sleeping is what is killing me. I've already lost 10 pounds in 8 days I wish I could get my hands on something to ease my pain, but i have no connections in India (specifically pot or hash)... I also don't want to undo all of the work that i have already done by taking the sub. I can't sleep more than an hour at a time and get in max 3-5 hours a night. I have some Ambien but don't want to take it everynight..then i will totally f-up my sleeping pattern. I can't find Pepcid AC out here, but i'vebeen chugging Kaopectate and taking Clonidine at night. I did not realize this would be so drawn out. My DR made it sound like regular opiate w/d (5-7 days and thats it)...i was not expecting such long lasting pain. But i guess part of that is my fault for using opiates for so long and then just switching it to suboxone.. Thanks for the support Queenie! Heading to work soon..another day of cold sweats in 95 degree weather.

opp adict 3 years ago

subutex does not have an opiod blocker so you can switch to it with out having to wait. After all thats what its meant for too stop withdraw. It is not as strong as other opieates but it will get rid of your pain. But if your on it your body still wont start to reproduce its natural morphine. so the only way to fix your brain is to stop all opiates and over time your mind will repair itself. The longer you have been using the more painful it will be and the longer it will take. Your body will no longer crave it once it is producing its own morphine again. Like i said if you have been using for 5 years then it will probablly take 5 years to recover. thats why it is so hard to quit. Subutex is very strong you can get really high if you are clean for few months and your tolerance to opiates is gone. Subutex and suboxe only show up in your fecile matter. So pee tests are of no use.

opp adict 3 years ago

k props for going to work while your in withdraw. Your a strong person in a month you will be sleeping good again and your symptoms will be greatly reduced. Just some goosebumps, akwardness in social settings and some soarness but that is a lot better than the first 3 weeks. I find its easier to prolonge the withdraw by taking few days off sub. Than taking 2mg for one day than taking a week off then taking 1mg than taking two weeks off. instead of being in pain for a whole month your brain will slowly repair itself when your not on it so when you stop completely it will not be nearly as painful.It doesnt mattter what opiod your on meth or sub or vic the less you take the less pain you will expierence in withdraw. get your self on a really low dose like .5 or 1 mg a day for a couple months then take a couple weeks off then take only one dose than two weeks off ect. It will be hard to stop have somone hold on to your medicine it is the best way to greatly reduce withdraw pain. It is not how much you take but how long you give your mind time to repair itself. I you can only do one day at first it still helps. your body can only start to repair if you are not taking anything. If you stoped for two weeks and then went back to a really low dose for three days your body will be back to how you felt on the 11th day so you got some relief and now your withdraw is only as bad as it was on the 11th day not the first day or week wich is the worst.The longer you stop using the more your tolerance goes away wich is how you ween off. You will have pain but I think going through pain a few days at a time is better than 3 or 4 months straight. Thats what it is meant for. Taking every day is just a substitue and is only making things worse. Doctors say it only takes 5 days but thats only because the worst days are the first 5 about every 5 days you will feel a little better.Depending on the amount and length of time you have been using the longer it will take. I never new opiates could be so fuckin horrible. I have been addicted to many drugs and this is right next to ghb when it comes to withdraw. Even coke isnt as bad that just makes you really depressed plus coming down makes you not want to do it and unlike opiates wich keep you high all night. Coke only works for and hour than its all down hill after that. Benzo's are next they just give you some anxiety and then it switchs to massive rage where you get into fights but I rather feel like that then opiate withdraw. Last is weed I wouldn't mind taking during the mild part of opiate withdraw it would work great but unfortuantly I cant. That would get rid of mild pain hot flashes and insomnia and deppresion. Withdraw from weed is easy just work out to release endorphines and feel relaxed and get used to going back to your prespictive you have on life wich is very different than that of when your smoking weed. When I smoked weed I would feel like I cant believe I acted like that when I was sober. It gives you such a better prespictive on how to act in life that is why I like it so much.

K 3 years ago

Hey opp.. how long are you off? its so funny that you mentioned having someone hold my meds. I carry them around with me everywhere i go and i look at the bottle about 10 times a day. Part of what is making this so hard is that i still have a full bottle of 8mg pills. although it kinda sounds weird, carrying them on me all the time and knowing that at any minute i can cave, has actually made me stronger. If i don't have them on me it turns into this temptation that i have to have so i can feel better..instead keeping them constantly in eye sight just reminds me of how much pain and trouble this has been thus far and how it is my choice to stop, not something that i'm stuck doing cuz i ran out. I've gone through almost every type of withdrawal multiple times and this is by far one of the worst. It reminds me of those few hours right after you run out of coke, except this lasts for an eternity..i've never been more strung out and weak and anxious in my life. i can't eat or sleep and am back to weighing 100lbs. but again...this is something that i did to myself so i can't get angry at anyone but me. i'm still searching for hash to help ease some of my body pains, but it's not looking too promising...

wronged 3 years ago

I am going on my 3rd week of Suboxone detox. My questions is, has anyone been experiencing terrible headaches that will not go away - no matter what! Also, does it really take longer than 3 weeks to regain your strenth, and your weight? This is really hard! Thanks for anyone who can answer!

dustybug 3 years ago

I caved and went back on suboxone after my I stopped taking opiates from my surgery (and the perk 15s (and 1 oxy -I know , bad)). I didn't want to go back on subs, but I ran out of opiates and couldn't deal with the RLS. My logic was if I had enough opiates to get me through the sub withdrawl, I could kick the subs and I could get through the opiate withdrawl in half the time (I can see this sub withdrawl is going to be 3-4 weeks at least). Well that plan went belly up and I told my sub doc about my idea and he vetoed that saying I should taper down to where I'm taking a CRUMB of a 2mg every 2 days. Got him to prescribe me neurontin and to see if that'll help with the RLS. I took 2 mg sub yesterday (my job is crazy strenuous so I needed it) and today is my day off and took 1 mg. Took 1200mg of neurontin and I'm still feeling antsy but I'm going to bed... is there ANYBODY out there who had success and a mild sub detox by tapering like this and taking gabapentin/neurontin?? I'm trying to keep my eye on the prize... I'm 26 and in the next 2-3 years my husband and I would like to start a family. I will not carry a baby and take suboxone. no no no

dustybug 3 years ago

gman, how much did you pay for your ibogaine treatment? I googled ibogaine like you said and what I read was pretty convincing, but I did read there's a number of people who died from ibogaine and they're unsure of the reasons. Here's a quote, "Several people are known to have died during treatment, and there may in truth be many more, given that ibogaine is frequently administered in surroundings where people may be reluctant to contact the authorities in the event of something going wrong...there is simply nowhere near enough data to draw any realistic conclusions as to why these deaths have occurred. Taking too much of the drug; using stepped doses, (ie: half a gram followed by another later on); being excessively thin; or suffering from liver or heart problems have all been suggested as dangers..." (http://www.relfe.com/ibogaine.html)

Sorry for the long post, but Gman what was your experience? Did you go to a sketchy detox facility or was it regulated?

K 3 years ago

Dustybug - i used gabapentine to go through opiate withdrawal a few times already. Unfortunately i do not have anything left for this round, but it certainly helps. It will not only help with your RLS but it will help when you are trying to sleep as well. I came off of oxys and h using it and the gabapentine + weed really took the edge off. But again...suboxone detox is a whole other animal and lasts much longer that any other detox i have ever gone through...well possibly the exception of Zoloft, but again, the weed really helped me there too. God damn..i need to find some weed out here.

Wronged..i'm on day 9 and i still feel horribly weak and like i am going to pass out all the time. Has your sleeping improved?? I'm really holding out in hope that i will sleep again without help from drugs.

dustybug 3 years ago

K - As for feeling like you're gonna pass out, that's probably from lack of sleep.. How about some melatonin? It's a vitamin supplement that you take at night for sleep (not gonna be a miracle but it might help you relax). In the states they have this stuff I saw at the drugstore in the vitamin isle its a combination of Valerian root and Melantonin. Might be worth checking out..

I'm not in withdrawl yet, I'm just tapering. But I take extra strength melatonin before bed and it helps me relax. It's not gonna knock you out like Ambien (obviously) but if you're trying to sleep again without drugs melatonin & valerian might help a little. I think when it's time for me to completely jump off subs I'm going to make sure I have a full script of neurontin, stock up on icy hot patches for my legs, Pepcid AC, and make sure the spare bedroom in my house is nice and comfortable so my husband doesn't divorce me! He's totally clueless to all this and never had an addiction problem in his life.

wronged 3 years ago

I am on day 25 detox from Suboxone. I My headaches are actually not as intense. I got on the scale and have gained 2 lbs.

K - As for sleep, the only way I could handle not sleeping at night was to take Ambien. At least it's non-narcotic. I feel a little stronger, even though it is still in the morning. I see, however, each day it gets a little better. It is just a slow process. Don't give in, and don't give up!

FUN TIMES 3 years ago

Hmmmn. Today is day 81 with no subs...still no fun...but much better than before. I actually had some serenity this weekend. Between Saturday and Sunday I slept 30 hours, give or take. My body just broke down and crashed. That was cool. I laid there watching college hoops in a trance when I awoke every few hours...with the sound off...but I was COMFORTABLE.

In the beginning....I took a bunch of Immodium AD and ate a ton. I decided if I wasn't going to put drugs into my body I was sure the hell going to put something in it. So I gained like 20 pounds from eating and just laying around. No troubles...it beats rolling up and down the West Side of Chicago everyday, asking every banger I see if he's cool. Its bad when they know you so well strangers start asking if your cool. I would also recommend a nice blend of Mr. Jack Daniels and Bailey's Irish Cream...as desired. Knock yourself out. I can buy that at the supermarket/ any liquor store around and drink legally at home and chill.

For those who are suffering...if you can...get some benzos. I was so F'ed up I quit those too...but if I wasn't a raging addict...I would recommend chilling with a nice meal, drink, and some clonipin or valium. You'll notice on some Seroquil sites that it is being used "experimentally" to help junkies. That shit if a bona fide horse tranquilizer. If you don't have a tolerance it is one and lights out. Catch up on sleep time. Hell...I never took more than one. Good luck to all.

dustybug 3 years ago

Been doing some research on how to lessen the withdrawl symptoms for when I jump off subs. Haven't seen anyone here mention the "Thomas Recipe." It's kinda what we've already been talking about but I'll publish the link for everyone.

It involves a prescription for Valium, Xanax, or Klonipin, L-tyrosine, Immodium, a strong mineral supplement with 100% RDA of Zinc, Phosphorus, Copper, Magnesium, and Potassium, Vitamin B6 capsules, and access to frequent hot baths/jacuzzis. The recipe has a disclaimer (and that goes for me too) and has a schedule of how to take the ingredients (times of day, etc).

I do have some reservations with this so-called recipe. A potassium supplement is NOT recommended for females taking some forms of the birth control pill. (I'm taking Yaz and I actually skimmed the manual and it said it can increase potassium levels! And basically not to supplement potassium while taking it cause it can cause major problems.) Zinc too I have some reservations with.

The L-Tyrosine helps stabilize hormone levels, stress, cold, fatigue, sleep deprivation. I've read on other forums this really does help and improve withdrawl symptoms.

1 more thing! I read in another forum that "Hylands Leg Cramps" (it's a OTC homeopathic pain medication available at Walmart,CVS,Walgreens,etc) works really well!! For myself, at nighttime I'm going to take my gabapentin (neurontin), the Hylands Leg Cramps, along with either tylenol PM or an herbal substitute like melatonin (or both). If the gabapentin can't help the RLS (which is my worst withdrawl symptom) then I have a script of Requip I can try. Then for the mornings, I'll take the L-tyrosine with my huge horsepill multivitamin and a B complex supplement. (Disclaimer: I'm not recommending anyone follow what I'm doing because I'm not a doctor and don't know anyones medical history).

Here's the link everyone: http://www.drugs.com/forum/featured-conditions/tho Hope its useful. Let me know if anyone has any success with it.

queenie 3 years ago

hi guys, today is day 33 for me with no subs. I feel alittle better everyday and tho i dont believe my brain is producing its normal amount of serotonin, im on my way. As far as the RLS goes i ran or worked out everynight before i attempted to sleep and that helped. I am a 5'7 female who normally weighs 140 however, i dropped down to 124 after 2 weeks of w/d. I now eat well and im up to 130. Im sleeping about 5 hours and napping an hour in afternoon. Te bottom line is you must be strong and prepare yourself to endure some suffering because freedom and a good life are on the other side. I remember the first day i knew i was turning the corner was at the 2 week mark. I had a day of clarity , peace and i laughed some. The next day i went back down aliitle but continued to progress. The depression and my stomach were the worst for me and now both have lifted.I have narcs in my house and do not take them because the pain of addiction outweighs the pain of life in sobriety.I admit i often feel out of place in life and uncomfortable in my skin sometimes but i am more adventurous and laugh alot more when im clean. ....and oh yeah, i have this thing between my legs! Its alive! lol This site has helped me through w/d i felt like i wasnt alone

K 3 years ago

I finally got in touch with my DR in the States yesterday and he suggested that i take a tiny bit of suboxone once a week or so to help my body adjust more comfortably. I took some last night, and slept like a baby. I'm really nervous though that i just fucked up everything and prolonged my w/d. I'm so sketched out by how much my DR is pushing it but i did convince him to write my another scrip for clonadine (which i'm not really sure does anything). Does anyone have any opionins on that? Should I follow his advice or go back to cold turkey?? It was the first time I was able to sleep and eat in DAYS. When i started this I weighed 115 and i'm already down to 100 (and i'm 5'5). Its like i could feel myself dying a little bit inside. Now i'm just afraid I ruined my previous 9 days of hard work and suffering. Did I??

queenie 3 years ago

My gosh k, you are right there! dont stop now

queenie 3 years ago

My gosh k, you are right there! dont stop now

FUN TIMES 3 years ago

Listen. A straight kick (as everyone knows who is doing it) makes no sense to me, UNLESS YOU ARE 'TAPERED' DOWN LOW. That's MY OPINION...I'm pretty f***ed up. For ME: kicking off 8mg was stupid...especially while quitting the C (long bad run) the pills and all that shit. Lets do the math: Better to kick off of 8 or 4? I'll say 4. 4 or 2?..I'm going 2. 2 or 1...guess. After I had enough with the 8 and out times...I felt like K. I took 2mg, felt like superman...and I thought. I done F'ed up for real...blew days on zero. But...I did the math. LIFE IS GRAY, NOT BLACK AND WHITE. So I made what I consider an intelligent choice and kicked off 2. After another week on zero, I kicked off 1. Pardon my french...but F**K your doctor. Only you know how you feel. ONLY YOU KNOW HOW COMMITTED YOU ARE. IF YOU ARE SERIOUSLY STRUGGLING, AND HAVE WEIGHED EVERYTHING OUT, AND ARE ABOUT TO SNAP...I WOULDN'T KILL MYSELF OVER TAKING 1 OR 2MG ONCE: ONCE: A WEEK, AFTER 9 DAYS WITH ZERO. IM NO DOCTOR...THATS MY OPINION.

QUEENIE...I RESPECT YOUR OPINION. K...IF YOU CAN GET THROUGH THIS TAKING ZERO (WHICH YOU CAN ), QUEENIE IS RIGHT. TAKE ZERO. I DON'T KNOW YOUR LEVEL OF PAIN OR DESPAIR. ONLY YOU DO. I MUST INSIST, IMO, THIS IS NOT AN ALL OR NOTHING GAME ALWAYS. THATS ADDICT THINKING...WE TEND TO BE EXTREMIST. THAT SAID: THIS AINT ANY TIME TIME TO BE THE LEAST BIT SOFT AT ALL. K...IF YOU CAN BE ONE HARD M-F, DO IT. BUT WHATEVER YOU DO, DO IT INTELLIGENTLY WITH THE RIGHT MOTIVATION. K-I DON'T THINK YOU DID ANYTHING WRONG. NEXT WEEK...YOU GET 2 MORE MGS. NEXT WEEK!!!!!!

K 3 years ago

Thanks Fun Times. I took about 1.5 after 9 days of zero and it was the first time i slept in 9 days. I feel much better today but don't plan on taking anymore for at least another 9 days. I was thinking about it, and i feel like stopping after weaning myself down to only 4mgs was not the way to go. Going from 4 to 0 was really fucking rough and i should have tapered a little better. You're right...addicts are extremists (i sure as well know that i am) and it this is not black and white. I'm certainly not going to start taking it everyday again..but my body needed a break and needed to recoup which is what i think the 1.5mgs did for me. I got a whole nights rest, was able to eat 3 full meals and re energized before starting another 9 days of 0mgs. No one said this was gonna be easy, but i kinda felt like I was making it harder on myself than it had to be. But again..i was looking at detoxing in black and white and some things are just flat out gray. I'm gonna keep going as strong as i can till i'm about to crack, then take the tiniest bit i can. I may be rationalizing, but i think that is probably best for your body as well. Jumping off the side of a cliff (so to speak) cannot be good for you..it is definitely going to be more comfortable to take a day off every 9 or 10 days to help your body catch up to all the shit you're putting it through. i may be rationalizing, but the 4 to zero was like fall off a cliff and landing straight on my fucking face.

queenie 3 years ago

hey guys i know! if you read my earlier entries you'll see i took tiny pieces of methadone a few times in the first two weeks when i just couldnt deal. and i was only taking 1 mg of sub for the last 3 weeks of my using it. no doubt its hard and only the strong survive(Fun times gave me strength with balls to wall attitude earlier on). K, do what you must, just move forward ! I recpect anyone who pulls thro even 3 days of sub or any opiate w/d! Stay strong ya'll. GOD BLESS!

FUN TIMES 3 years ago

I'm very glad for this site. I do go to NA meetings (and really don't care if I have one drink at night....they can keep the keytags...I'm grateful for the support and knowledge EARNED THROUGH THEIR EXPERIENCE)...and I'M JUST SAYING...a Good Group is a very valuable resource to me. Some groups suck. I'm white, my 'home group' is made up mostly of cool black guys (w/the obligatory fidora) and women who have been through shit WAAAAYYYYYYYY worse than me. The average clean time there is like 13 years or so. I don't speak, I listen and learn, b/c I have determined that the root of addiction...which carries over to "kicking" is ALL IN MY/YOUR MIND. My favorite line from an NA book is "my best ideas got me here". I have my Law Degree, and my BEST IDEAS got me hooked on everything you can buy in Chicago. I go to NA to hear other people's best ideas (gained through painful experience) that have helped them get and stay clean for 13 years. Make no mistake...these are real hard core ex-junkies who are now doing very well.

Back to this site: K and Queenie, thanks for the kind comments. If anything I may have written helps anyone one bit....it makes my unpleasantly painful experience more acceptable to me. You both helped me and made me stronger with your words. For real. Thank you. It is especially appreciated because we are all going through some rather F'ed stuff that most people will never know exists. I told (and may tell again) people all the time (boss, friends, family) "Listen...I may appear to be a happy functional human being right now, but make no mistake....I still feel F'ed up...okay". They just kinda nod...and I don't balme them...only WE people know what this shit is about. Its just no fun. I know it is not supposed to be fun, but I fully condone everyone saying (in a non complaining voice) "Motherfucker already....this shit really aint no fun". Then get back to being hard...and say "Fuck fun....I'm kicking this motherfucker".

K-don't worry about rationalizing. This is one of the hardest/trickiest parts of the kick...to be FEARLESSLY HONEST with yourself to the point where you KNOW...okay...1.5 mgs in 9 days equal an average of .166mgs per day. I am not "rationalizing using this miniscule amount...I'm being fucking sensible for once in my life". Shit. .166? Are you kidding me? You are doing great. Just make that your limit if you have to...in 9 days do 1.5 or 1 again. That's not rationalizing...that's intelligent.

There is a nice bonus once the kick is done (aside from...holy shit....I don't need an orange pill to survive). When you get through this you are forged from fucking steel. Everyday shit that people worry about will not phase you (aside from shelter and food). I'll close with two lyrics: by Jimmy and Jimi: "I've been dazed and confused for so long it's not true"....that was during the rough part, and now "If the sun refuses to shine, I don't mind...I don't mind. If the mountains, fall into the sea...let it be...it aint me". I'm cool. God Bless you all.

K 3 years ago

Fun Times, Queenie and this site have been sooo helpful to me too. I'm working abroad and no one knows about my past with oxy and herion and no one here could possibly understand even the slightest bit what i'm going through. I, like Fun Times, am a functioning addict. I used to do herion and go to work in finance. It was just what i did and no one knew my dark secret, which in a way made me feel even more on top of the world than with the drugs. It was like i had this inside joke that only i got and i was laughing at everyone around me. I'm sure i'm like many other people on this site...i will never truly hit a rock bottom because i am too functioning, but that isn't a reason not to quit and doesn't make it okay to use(i only realized that recently). I thought, if i can do all my regular life activities just as good f-ed up all the time as sober, then what is the point of being sober?? I still question that sometimes. But at some point it wasn't an option to function without drugs (not like i would have anyway) and thats when i decided i need to clean up my act. I had no defining moment, and i never will...at some point it just came down to being sick and tired of being sick and tired...no winding up in jail and no being close to death (well maybe a few times..). And knowing that whatever i do there was a very rare chance that my actions would have a negative impact on anyone but myself (no stealing, lying or cheating...just illegal drug use) and without that "rock bottom" in sight it makes it even harder to quit drugs. But i'm a better person now..i still have dreams about heroin and oxys at least three times a week and i do indulge in my weed habit (at least i did in the US) but i feel like i'm finally living for real. And that scares me shitless but it makes me proud at the same time. I lived for so long on drugs (I started at 14 and i'm 24) that living this life now is terrifying, but after discovering this site, I feel like it is not only possible, but probable. I've never been a fan of NA (i just can't seem to find a good group) but this is the best support system I can imagine. Thank you all so much for making me realize that i am not alone in this or anything and for all of the words of encouragement. I appreciate it more than any of you will ever know. Good luck to all. We will speak soon.

Fun Times 3 years ago

Hey K. You are sounding cool young lady. Real cool. Women in my opinion are more sensible then men. I'd almost bet (almost...b/c I quit doing that after too many times at the flats aka thouroughbred races) that you are a very attractive, extrememely intelligent, and genuinely kind person. And an absolute narcissist (spl. ck. pls?). I'm just giving my best guess...because I AM one too...it's not cool...but I'm trying to understand and be honest with myself. Anymore narcissistic folks here? I know what its like to pull up to a very respectable school of law in a Turbo Porsche (bought with perhaps slightly unclean funds), high as a kite on H, very well groomed, and look down on everybody there. Haha...you people actually study? It wasn't such an inside secret that I was different (I'm fairly certain I was the only guy hitting the gheto for H between classes)...but it was an inside joke/pleasure to me. I loved it. I mean being successful and on H (and smart enough to be in a meth clinic...just in case things got a bit dodgy) and upwardly mobile...that was my American Dream, and I was living it. Pride cometh before the fall. My opinion about women being more sensible may be wrong...but at age 24....I was just starting to have fun. YOU YOUNG LADY (UNLESS YOU ARE A 100 POUND MAN...MY APOLOGIES....LOL) ARE DOING SOMETHING BEAUTIFUL. I honestly love my career...but if I had quit when I was 24...I swear to God I wouldn't have a boss. Life works itself out the way it does...period. SO AGAIN K- NOW I'M ALMOST EMOTIONALLY INVESTED IN YOU DOING THE RIGHT THING...YOUR TOO YOUNG AND TALENTED TOO FUCK UP 15 MORE YEARS OF YOUR LIFE. LIKE I DID. DIG.

This site is blessing. Queenie- you seem strong and very determined. Your my age, and we have been through a little bit. I like your spirtuality. It's beautiful. I'm trying to find mine. Not into war stories...but here's a reminder of just how bad things were and get...this is a progressive disease...it only gets worse...never better. I have been stuck up so many times that someone had to be REALLY FUCKING CONVINCING EVEN WITH A GUN ON MY NECK BEFORE I WAS GIVING UP SHIT BEFORE I QUIT USING. In the beginning..they just had to pull a gun out and I gave up my cash. I possesed a superior ability to crash cars...into all kinds of things. I'm sure thats common here. I drove through a taped off murder "scene" not long ago (in fairness...after breaking through the first tape at the beginning of the block...I stopped with the tape on my windshield at the other end)...and the police looked at me with a state of utter disbelief...guns pointed at me of course...that anyone would do that. I actually considered it a reasonable thing to do...cops were everywhere...I wasn't really supposed to be on that block...might have been dirty...why stop? Cops and guns was a reasonable reason to stop. They showed me the dead victim's brains on the wet street, let me go...and of course I did what I went out to do.

I'm sure people have worse stories. I never killed anyone (thank God...with all the accidents), never committed armed robbery, I consider myself a GOOD PERSON. I LOVE TO HELP PEOPLE. ADDICTS BY NATURE ARE SELF-ABSORBED AND SELFISH...LIKE ME. SO I GUESS I LOVED TO HELP PEOPLE...AFTER I GOT WHAT I WANTED...AND DIDN'T REALLY MIND HURTING THEM TO GET IT. I FELT BAD UNTIL THE NEXT DAY.

FUCK ALL THAT. I'M NOT THAT WAY NOW BECAUSE I DON'T USE DRUGS...AND I'M NOT HOOKED ON SHIT! I believe addicts are for the most part kind and intelligent people (and selfish when using)....that unfortunately have something amiss with themselves inside, that makes them seek oblivion. Narcissism is a bad trait I will overcome. I will be humble. Perhaps God is using all the pain I went through to humble me. I thank him for it.

K or Queenie...feel free to shoot me a text or call sometime...if you want. I'd love to put a voice to these comments I hear. My cell is 312.342.1271, as you can see...I REALLY DON'T GIVE A FUCK WHO KNOWS IT. If you wanna call, just give me the first three numbers of your cell...and i'll know its you. I'll be free over the weekend...busy tonight. No hard feelings either way. I wish you both nothing but the best. Stay cool.

Amanda 3 years ago

I have been a heroin user for 9 yrs. I decided after about 4 months of addiction that I would try a methadone detox. Well, they don't offer a detox plan; they only offer a maintenance plan. So, basically the government wants your money. They have no interest in seeing you clean; they want you to stand in line everyday and give them your $13.00 a dose to be addicted to something that is government regulated. By the way, methadone was the worst thing imaginable to come off of. I quit cold turkey, and I was sick for a month. I thought I would never get better. Obviously if I tried this methadone program 4 months into my addiction; I relapsed. In October of 2008 I went into a detox program. They used suboxone. I had quit cold turkey numerous times, but I just couldn't do it this time. After about a week I had completed my taper. I have to admit though, I did feel some withdrawal symptoms. Sometimes you do need a break from the withdrawal, and when I was sick from the methadone I did get high once a week. I needed to sleep, to move, to do anything other than be in agonizing pain. You can do this, and for a doctor to think that substituting one drug for another is better, well, in my opinion it's not. They mislead people into thinking that suboxone is some miracle drug. There is no miracle drug, but you will be a better person for going through this experience, and if you have to take the edge off every now and then do it. It is just unfortunate that we aren't warned that these other drugs have a much longer and sometimes much worse withdrawal than our original addictions. Good luck to anyone who needs it.

K 3 years ago

Hey Fun Times..you hit the nail pretty much on the head. only i'm not a "hey look at me" narcissist, i'm a "self hating so everyone must be looking at me" narcissist. I've had some childhood trauma that has lead me to seek out the incorrect things to try to comfort myself and live with the memories of my past. Much of my behavoir is just to try to cope with life. I'm a drug addict, and if something can be abused I will be the one to abuse it. In college I even managed to turn occational acid use into a habit..i had to be tripping all the time (and I did for a good 6 months). That's why i felt so at home with opiates. It just makes everything okay. I could forget about the past and the present and it would stop my mind from racing about the future. It gave me peace of mind for the first time in my life and i wanted to hold onto that feeling forever. Well that's how it was like in the beginning. After a while it wasn't an option not to use and that was okay with me because what is the point in living such a painful life when you don't have to? I'm still having trouble coming to terms with some of this stuff. I too agree that most of the addicts i've met are too intelligent for their own good (I tihnk that's one of my problems). Being so aware is hard to deal with and at times i wish i was ignorant like so many other people..being content working their 9-5 jobs and wanting settling down and getting married. Ugh..life sucks. FT - my Indian cell has the numbers 966 in it..i'll shoot you a text that my company will pay for later this weekend.

Amanda - I agree. I wish someone (namely my DR) had explained just how addictive Suboxone would be. I'm not sure if i would have cared (I was so concerned about not using H and oxy I would have taken anything) but at least then i could have made an informed decision about going on it. This detox is waaay longer and waay more uncomfortable. I'm still not sure if i will ever feel whole again.

queenie 3 years ago

ello there (best english accent)!Just wanted to say addicts are the most interesting people i know. As a nurse, im around all kinds of people and at the end of the day im always so happy to be around other addicts(recovering of course). Alot of peolple in my field are very judgmental of addicts and say " they did it to themselves", which is true but i dont belive its that cut and dry! I never wanted to be a H addict when i was a kid...it just sorta happened.Whats funny is there are alot of drug abusers in the health care industry that judge patients and then turn around and have their hand in the cookie jar! I do not discuss my situation with coworkers as i have found some things are better left unsaid! I do however advocate for some of the pts who come in addicted (in my own way). anyway, i just spent two lovely days at the beach here in south Florida and it was great and i realized im nolonger experiancing any w/d symptoms. I also slept 8 hours solid last night. Fun Times you are so honest it cracks me up! K, are you feeling any better yet? my area code is 954. Stay strong guys. With love, Queenie

dustybug 3 years ago

K - wow you said it "Being so aware is hard to deal with and at times i wish i was ignorant like so many other people..being content working their 9-5 jobs" That is exactly what landed me in the situation I'm in now. The constant state of wake up, go to gym, feed dog, take shower, work my ass off & people scream at me, go home, go to sleep and do it all over again is so fucking depressing that the only way I could work and for awhile actually LIKE my job was to pop pills like tic tacs. Thats exactly it, being so aware of it makes it so you can't even enjoy the weekend coming because you know you gotta do it all over again. And yea, we can all try and find some bullshit "rewarding" career but the only things that are genuinely rewarding don't pay the bills. And I don't know about you, but then I'm so aware of this, that I try to tell myself I need to stop thinking like this, I'm young and need to enjoy my life because before I know it I'm gonna be old. I guess I just need to find something that really makes me happy and do it... but WTF is that!!!??

K 3 years ago

Dusty - that is exactly it! I feel like i am wasting my life and everyday that i'm not doing something great with my life is another day i've failed. I hate my job, feel unstatisfied with my life, and just go through the motions because I know that I should be. When i was using, i just didn't give a fuck. It let me forget about how miserable my life is and made going to work and doing my routines tolerable. This being sober thing is miserable because everyday i wake up in a panic and say, "what the fuck are you doing with your life, K???" I know that I need to find something that makes me happy, but nothing does. The closest I have come to that was using and it didn't make me happy so much as numb (to me they are two in the same). I have no passions besides scoring and dread living the rest of my life. I need to find something I'm passionate about, but i have no clue what that is.

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

just checking to see if i need an account before i post

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

k well i weened down after a forever opiate addiction from subs to about 1mg a day i got tramadol for some fractured bones and now i'm 10 days 0subs and taking like 50-150mg tramadol to ease my symptoms plus some benadryl i don't feel terrible but i don't feel great either i think this is the best site so far as w/d goes detailed days and all are awesome...i'm now down to 50mg tramadol starting today for the next 5 days i figured i would feel a wee set back when i'm done with them but that will only last a couple of days and the worst of the sub w/d will be over if anybody else has experience with this drug let me know...when i kicked dope i used vics and i don't even remember feeling a set back and tramadol isn't even as strong as them and subs are def. the same damn dif. as dope except w/d is a wee different so i think i'll be okay it's not like i'm having a walk in the park right now......man i'm so grateful for this site i went to drugs.com and nobody even answered my thread!!!wtf but it's all good

queenie 3 years ago

Merchantofdeath- hang in there boss and do whatever you need to do to get through. In prob another week you'll be good (not great but good). What made you decide to stop anyway? Not that it matters im just curious. PS use icy hot if your muscles start aching

Dog 3 years ago

I posted 3 weeks ago about quitting for good and my experiences with withdrawing off of oxys and suboxone. I sit here 3 fucken weeks later in the same god dam position. I am so sick of this fucken shit. I relapsed last week again, not bad, but enough, doing 1-2 80s per day; now I am back on the sub again trying to get off. Took 4 mgs yesterday, and 6 mgs today, but the subs are no longer working for me. They stop the bad wds, but I still am anxious, depressed, and worse of all - the worst hot and cold flashes imaginable.

I am at my wit's fucking end. I am a 30 year old, successful businessman (who would be more successful if it werent for the 800 lb gorrilla on my back) with a beautiful, supportive fiance and great parents. Yet, this shit has made me mentally, emotionally, and physically weak to the point, where I am really starting to lose hope and begin to think about painting my office walls with my brains.

If I am not successful kicking it this time, I don't know what to do. There is no end in sight to this thing. I know that I can stabilize with the sub and might be able to crack a smile in a month, but it starts all over again, when I try and come of the sub. Then, on top of that, I have a years worth of fucken depression and insomnia to look forward to. Honestly, I would sell my soul to the lucifer himself to be rid of this problem.

K 3 years ago

Dog - I hear you. The only thing worse than coming down off a strick regimin of opiates is having to go back to the life that lead you to use in the first place. Some people use for fun but I've always used as a means to deal with all the shit that takes place in my head. That has definitely been the worst part of detoxing...going back to the way i felt before i used and never sleeping never having a normal thought. All i can say is that smoking weed and hash has helped me considerably, but i know that is not a long term plan. Good luck and if you find the devil, send him my way...i'm willing to make a few deals.

Dog 3 years ago

K - You are 1000% correct. My problem is similar. . Unlike you, I don't have any crazy shit or demons in my head. I have been completely off and dam near sleeping again 2 times already, but the same thing always leads me to falling of the wagon again - boredom. My mind gets bored. Its embarrassing and ashame to say it, when compared to the problems of other people. I partied hard throughout my 20s and now that it is time to calm it down, I find life very boring. I really need to learn to direct that boredom to something worthwhile.

Stevenp 3 years ago

Hey,

I've spent the good last hour reading all of these posts—really great!

I have been on black tar Heroin for the past month. Previous to that I was on suboxone and had been for about 1 year taking 8mg (1 pill) per day. I have been struggling with some sort of opiate my whole life it seems, well, ever since i had my first knee surgery and found out about pain pills. Anyhow, I heard about suboxone through a friend and i quit taking drugs and got on suboxone after a bit of a struggle to get there, but I did it.

After about 6 months of being on suboxone i decided i wanted to quit and just go back to taking nothing... Well... i found it too hard to do. As soon as I got my dosage down to about 1mg suboxone every other day, my cravings just got too strong and I ended up moving the dosage back up. I never felt any pain or withdrawal though while tapering down to the .5mg from 8mgs though. It was about a 6 week taper and I would just feel a slight discomfort every time i brought the dosage down, but nothing much and pretty painless.

I don't understand all of this pain that every one is talking about with quitting suboxone?? I was told by my doctor that if i did the taper that he put me on, that I wouldn't feel any withdrawal, and I pretty much didn't, the problem for me was the strong cravings that came and so I went back on suboxone to keep myself from doing the dope again.

I am a couple days from getting back on suboxone from Heroin again. I have been on the heroin for about a month, like I mentioned but for some reason, it is just so scary waiting to be ready to get back on the suboxone because it is uncomfortable for the first couple days.

I have never comletely been successful in getting off of suboxone again completely. I have tapered down to taking next to nothing (.5mgs) but never completely. I really don't understand all of the withdrawal pains that have been mentioned several times in this post. Is that just because of trying to go cold turkey off of the suboxone? I can tell you that if you taper over a period of about 6 weeks, that there will be no withdrawal... can anyone else testify to that also?

Well, as of today, i'm trying to find the courage to kick the dope and get back on the subs, and then after I do that, i want to taper off the subs again and possibly go to rehab which I have never done before and feel it will be the cherry on top to getting myself permanently clean.

Any words or encouragement or comments to what I have to say?

Keep the great posts coming and thanks for sharing all of your stories!

Steve

Fun Times 3 years ago

Awwwwwwwwwwww Shit. Here we go. My computer is F'ed up at home so I just read the comments from work. K, Dustybug, I swear...I SUPPORT YOU, PRAY FOR YOU, AND WISH YOU SUCCESS AND HAPPINESS!!! I DO.

BUT I AINT TRYING TO TELL YOU WHAT YOU WANNA HEAR ONLY WHAT YOU BETTER MUTHERFUCKING KNOW!!!!!!

K-"I too agree that most of the addicts i've met are too intelligent for their own good (I tihnk that's one of my problems). Being so aware is hard to deal with and at times i wish i was ignorant like so many other people..being content working their 9-5 jobs and wanting settling down and getting married. Ugh..life sucks".

Wow!!!!!! Now that is some HARDCORE NARCISSISM! For Real! Fuck! Wow!!!!!! Now I got something to say: I work with attorneys, in fact I advise them (some are smarter than others, I couldn't call one ignorant). At times I need a really really smart attorney to advise me on how to advise them. These are not ignorant people...not by a long shot. Queenie, it appears that your work in a hospital. If you have a cardio or neuro ward...I bet that you can atest to the fact that there are some very smart surgeons. I dare say...way smarter than me. Attorneys aren't surgeons (thankfully, or we wouldn't have such a thing as surgery....hahahahhaha). I'm not Shakespeare, Oppenheimeir....or Kepler. Neither are you. WERE THEY SO SMART THAT THEY HAD TO BECOME ADDICTED TO DOPE...BECAUSE...HOLY SHIT...THEY "REALLY KNEW HOW THE WORLD WORKS" AND "WERE WAYYYYYY TO SMART FOR A 9-5". Doubt it. they probably worked for three days without sleeping with their genius ideas on the true nature of a Lepton. C'mon.

What about the really regular people. Take for instance my Infiniti mechanic. I have a basic understanding of an internal combustion engine. I can take one apart. I can put one back togather...with the help of a machinist. If the engine is from 1972. Variable Rate Timing Dual Overhead Camshafts running off of a brainbox...aka...a car computer that runs a lot of shit...namely the entire car...is wayyyyyyy beyond my practicle knowledge. I dare say that fuckers smart. Why does go to work, this smart fellow? Didn't he read Nietzsche, Sartre, Heidenger and Kierkegaard? Whoa is me...life is purely a matter of perception....there is no truth....blah, blah....motherfucking blah. Save it.

DIG THIS. WE ARE THE FUCKING WEAK. ARE YOU TRYING TO TELL ME THAT A 'SIMPLER' PERSON THAN YOU IS IGNORANT BECAUSE THEY CAN'T SEE WHAT YOU SEE. THEY ARE SMART ENOUGH NOT TO PICK UP A FUCKING DOPE HABIT. THATS RIGHT. FUCK- DO YOU HONESTLY THINK THE WHOLE FUCKING WORLD WOULDN'T RATHER LOVE TO BE KICKED BACK NODDING ON DOPE AFTER A HARD FUCKING DAY'S WORK THAN ACTUAL DEALING WITH REALITY?!? SHIT...I KNOW A TON OF DUMB DOPE FIENDS. GETTING THROUGH LIFE CLEAN AND SOBER (AS IN SON OF A BITCH EVERYTHING'S REAL!) TAKES STRENGTH. THERE ARE CONSEQUENCES TO USING...SUPRISE. Who is smarter than who? Who is stronger than who? Feeling a little "unsatistfied". Poor folks. Fly to Rawanda or Darfur...maybe you can participate in the famine, pestilence...and in your lucky....a little genocide.

Keeping thinking that you are the Chosen One...keep taking Morpheous' pills...and enjoy a little more pain NEO. I swear to everyone hear...I thought the same exact motherfucking thing that K mentioned. 17 years later....Suprise. I'm not the chosen one. Humility folks. Everyone would like a little oblivion after a hard day. Some people are strong enough to live without it...and to do the right thing.

Freebird 3 years ago

I have used oxys, percs, roxys, hydros, anything I could get for the last two years. We were spending so much money on them every day that we started doing subs in between because we could get them cheaper. I finally decided I wanted my life back and I was going to do whatever it took!! So I have not done a pill in almost 3 weeks. I stayed on the subs until last Thursday, I wheened myself down. I never would let myself do much of a sub even when I was using them in between pills. I would just shave off a small line. So it got to where I needed this teeny little bump just to get through the day. It was just so stupid!! I wanted to be a normal person again that did not need to do something every morning just to get by. It is the end of my 5th day without anything! I feel wonderful! The first two days were the worst, but nothing compared to oxy withdrawls. The second day I felt like doing easter shopping for my little one and stayed out of the house most of the day, even drove 30 miles to visit my dad. I still have still felt like cleaning up the house and did a couple loads of laundry. We went to the grocery store tonight. I am doing all the things that I used to need the sub to be able to do. I have mild restless legs, and insomnia, but I take a quarter of my husbands sleeping pill and I am out for the night. I have gone to work and made it through. I am getting over diarrah now, and feel amazing. The symptoms I have had have not been nearly bad enough to keep me in bed or keep me from doing anything I would normally do. I just want this so bad and I listen to several songs that keep me motivated. I feel better and better every day, and I wish everyone that is trying to get through the same thing, the best of luck! Just remember that there is an end to it all.

queenie 3 years ago

Guess what guys....in the medical world we (addicts) fall under a catogory titled mental illness. HOWS THAT PILL FOR SWALLOWING? When you continue to do the same thing over and over when you know what the final outcome is( Death, jail, nutward) you are officially insane! I agree with you guys life can be boring and scary but the key is to stay really busy and volunteer your extra time helping someone less fortunate than yourself. Our time on earth is short. What will people be able to say about you when you die? He/she was a caring ,giving, kind person who did this, this, and this or, He/she was a piece of sh*t and waste of life junkie. Just some food for thought. As a 37 year old who has battled this demon a long time i tell yiu nothing in life thats worth having comes easy( except maybe the lottery). Dig deep and find inner strength. I hope some of you younger folks dont struggle 20 years away like i have. Time goes by fast and 20 tuns into 35 in what seems like no time. As always i wish you all the best and send my prayers up for you.

Fun Times 3 years ago

Alright. I almost kinda sorta got a tiny bit little 'remorsefull' about coming off as kinda harsh. I said almost. On the one hand, I DO NOT want to hurt anyone's feelings. However...I don't have a problem grabbing car keys from a drunk before he kills himself or herself and someone else. He can be pissed at me now...and hopefully...cool off later. In any event, I'M NOT GONNA LET THIS DUDE CRASH AND BURN IF I CAN HELP IT.

I would like to comment on what Queenie said...because I'm with it. I almost regret calling addicts weak people...with the complete understanding that I am a full blown addict. Is it a disease...doctors say it is. So if you don't like thinking that during active addiction you were weak...cool...you were sick with a mental illness. Entirely plausible, I'm not ruling it out. If it wasn't a disease to begin with...it sure the fuck became a mental illness after a little while.

So..now we all have a disease, called addiction. Let's say we were born with or acquired it or whatever. Were all f'ed up. Queenie is right...we as addicts have all become insane. Except for those of you who planned on winding up addicted to hardcore opiates and planned on getting on suboxoxe, and planned on a terrible kick. You folks are exempt...your genius maschocist (which is still a mental illness). But for the rest of us who made less brilliant choices that got us here...shit...didn't you know after being sick the first time kinda where this was going? Kept putting your hand on that hot stove anyway...thinking this time...it wouldn't burn. Didn't ya. Told yourself...if I just put my hand on the stove a little less often (which you couldn't do anyway)...for sure it wouldn't burn. Result...you got some f'ed up looking hands after a awhile. Addicts, and I have seen the 'pictures'...have some f'ed looking brains after a while.

So, what now? I'll tell everyone: YOU ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR DISEASE, BUT YOU ARE REALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR RECOVERY. THAT IS THE MOST "PROFOUND" AND IMPORTANT THING I WILL EVER SAY ON THIS SITE. That is as good as I got.

If you are a diabetic...like my father was....take insulin. If you are addict...get in RECOVERY. It's that simple. A disease....which doesn't go away...but like diabetes...it can be arrested. Go make a citizen's arrest on this motherfucking disease...or get high. Your choice. Only you can want to do it. I like Queenie pray that you arrest this disease through Recovery. Jails, Institutions, and Death. Those are the "yets..." waiting if you don't. For what it's worth...don't go to NA if you don't want to. Don't seek counseling if your too cool. Some loving Recovering Addicts made me one simple promise: Get into Recovery, come to meetings, take our advice...and if it doesn't work...no trouble....we will gladly refund your pain. I'll take my tax refund...I'll let the pain go. God bless you all. Pray to Him and you might get a good answer.

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

checkin in

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

k...well i wrote before and it didn't post...it's me i'm a goof.

well progress....i've been answered at drugs.com forum=need to talk? and they there are 2 members with a lot of experience with tapering of subs. now i know i could logically sit down & figure this all out myself but having the support really helps out with the my will power. okay well i was using tramado to come of subs i was on day 10 and feeling lousy as well as sick to my stomach from the tramadol[which after extensive research...should not be used w/subs...luckily i didn't mix them but really we've all have been garbage cans before, right] i was advised to stop taking the tramadol & restabalize on the subs which i had tapered down to 1mg before i switched off to tramadol. i did what they recommended and i feel better which of course we all know would happen.

now i'm on a scheduled taper.i'm going to take 1mg of sub for 4 days then cut down 25% every 4 days depending on how my body is reacting. so the schedule goes like this:

1mg/4days

.75/4days

.50/4days [.25 in the am & .25 in the pm]

........................then the schedule switches up since it is of the upmost importance to feel stable at each level of tapering the days may proceed past 4 it depends on how your feeling. they use 4 days b/c of the 1/2 life of subs... if it's too fast for your chemistry to keep up with and you start feeling w/d you may stay on that dose until you feel straight. and that stands for every increment of this tapering schedule that is why you talk to them everyday to help gauge the best course of action on an individual basis.

now you'll begin to start skipping the pm dose every other day;

.25am & .25pm/1day

.25am & skip/1day

.25am & .25pm/1day

.25am & skip/1day

.25am & .25pm/1day

.25am & skip/1day

.25am & skip/1day

.25am & .25pm/1day

.....so every 4 days you'll adjust your dose, providing your adjusting okay...now the next set you'll skip the pm dose 3 days in a row and eventually you'll be at .25 and eventually that'll be your jump off.........but alot of times people will reduce down to aprx. 1/2 of .25 like .12mg or whatever then jump off...but that is slow i'll use .25 as the last dose for example purposes so you'll be at .25 for 4days then you'll go to every other day for a while then every 3 days then every 4 days and i'm not really sure after that other than what seems to be the next logical step and that is be done. everybody says either they felt no w/d or very little. so since i really want to do this right and suffer the least i'm gonna try this.

this hubs greatest attribute is it's daily journal of what people experience as they detox so i decided that is what i'll contribute. i have yet to read of somebody doing that here. although i really can't wait to be done i want to do this slow so my body has time to adjust...it's been abused long enough and getting clean is about doin' things right [isn't insanity repeating the same mistakes and expecting different results?] and i'm always in such a haste to get off & be clean that i end up hurting and back on square one...over and over and over and over again.this time around i want to make sure i'm done for sure and going slow i think is a good idea. i'm not going to glorify my addiction or carry on that i'm some super addict w/crazy tolerances...that's so unimpressive when i see people posting how tough or "bad" they are. but i will give a quick time line b/c that is relevant to my detox and my body's reaction to tapering:

2yrs herion & misc. opiates

3 1/2 yrs. methadone [peaking at 190mg tapered to 20mg for subs]

2 yrs. subs [started at 16mg tapered to 1mg over this last year]

so aprx. 7 years w/out a break of synthetic opiates in my body so it is only logical that my body needs to repair while i'm tapering to feel min. w/d. and i am no super hero to be honest i'm tired of fighting the good fight...ya at 18 cold turkey sucked but doable now no way i'm defeated i'm only 30 & i just don't have it in me so i'm gonna try to make this as comfortable as i can. i might take longer to adjust as i taper than 4 days and that's okay. so i will log in hopefully everyday and give a bried account of what is going on. i recommend visiting drugs.com to anybody looking to get off subs it has a high success rate and it's done by people that have been where we are now they are not doctors but they are experienced & educated.so sorry for such a long post future ones will be alot briefer but i thought for those in need this is a good explaination & my history is important to why i feel the way i do. thanks and good luck to all!!!!!!!!!!

1mg/day 3

i feel fine no symptoms what so ever. i'm sleeping & eating & fully funtional & no anxiety/depression has set in.[ however i was at 1mg for 2mths before i tried quitting. i tapered myself down from 2mg to 1mg over night & had min. w/d and adjusted quite quickly.but if your on this schedule i recommend using their method of cutting down 25% i was anxious and by msyelf.]i taper down in 2 days to .75 and i'm hoping that is okay as well but for now i'm happy to be stable at 1mg.

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

drugs.com= http://www.drugs.com/forum/need-talk/

i highly recommend it. this links right to the forum i talked about and look for robert325 or musicman they are the ones that work w/ you on a one to one basis. if you need anyother information or support you can find tons of references there.

i think coming to this hub for support & journaling as well as the drugs.com for sheduled tapering "program" & recommendations are a good step to getting off subs. i just wanted to contribute back what is helping me maybe it can help somebody else too.

oh sorry for any typos i don't feel like editing or proof reading :)

Fun Times 3 years ago

first...i would like to apologize to K and Dustybug for not speaking in a more thoughtful and constructive way. i hope you both accept my apology as it is sincere. i am impulsive and posess terrible judgment. God i want you two too succeed. i'm pretty introspective. i was really upset at the fact that my best intentions were not tempered by humility or judgment. i prayed for both of you by name last nite, at 10pm, and fell asleep before i was done. i woke up when my alarm rang 6am. a peaceful nite. i do not like going to sleep being angry at anyone or having someone angry at me. my biggest concern today wasn't getting to work...but writing this. hopefully you will accept my apology as sincere. it is. and keep focused on your detox/recovery.

this is a journal of sorts. boredom led me to use. using felt alot more like being alive than boredom did. it hurt in the end.

hello merchant of death. i hope things go well for you. i humbly hope that you and i both succeed in this endeavor. being 'hard' is what i sincerely felt i needed to be to kick. i felt other people might have to be hard too. if not...i apologize. i agree...boasting of a high tolerance is passe'...i told everyone where i was...just like you did. i told everyone of the stupid things i did...as a reminder to myself how far i had come...and how far my addiction led me. to me it's important to tell people what i believe...addiction leads to death...so i saw no harm in adding real life illustrations.

i'm not going to lie...i thought being mildly criticized for expressing what i don't even consider a high tolerance (i have friends shooting raw weight...i never did that...not even close)...which was 'where i was at' as being exremely unimpressive- when i really wasn't trying to impress someone...kinda turned me off. same thing with telling folks...i was hard...you might need to be a little hard...that seemed reasonable. i couldn't have got completely off subs as long as i did without being hard. and it came from the humblest of sources...Merchantofdeath. i can kid with you and tell you that it seems like that name would be extremely unimpressive to a teenager these days. but i am kidding. honestly. you are doing something cool...keep doing it. and when i speak out of turn...correct me. i have an open mind. i appreciate criticism these days...it makes me look at myself...because "i am my own worst enenemy...i'm a hazard to myself". Thanks Queenie, K-, Dustybug, Mechantofdeath, and everyone on this site. help me help myself...and i'll try and be as supportive as i can.

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

stevenp....if you've never been to rehab then maybe you should try outpatient therapy...your insurance or county will probably do that first anyways. i would do outpatient & go to NA meetings & listen to their advice. i don't know your overall history but i'm guessing your mind set is like everybody elses. rehab blows to be honest but if you never went you won't hate it as much as when your a "repeat offender". oh and i'm tapering now and it seems if i do it right i won't feel any w/d....fingers crossed.

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

fun times....i actually wasn't even referencing you at all....i was reflecting on how i was when i was younger and i was thinking of the people i see in my life who still use. i enjoyed your posts truth be told...sorry if their was any misunderstanding.oh and you could joke around with me as crazy as you want. i'm very down to earth & posses a very dark sense of humor. oh and the name comes from an inside joke between my boyfriend and i that's y i used it.[just to fill ya in] but i don't take myself that seriously & i appreciate kidding around it lightens the day up. oh and i rarely take offense to what people say b/c i'm pretty raw & only expect the same in return.

1mg day 4

i feel fine still...good deal. i usually have a difficult time waking up but today i actually woke up fine. i'm also a night person through & through and i've finally managed the last couple of days to go to bed before 1pm. i'm staying busy cleaning and organizing our apt. i've been depressed and laying about for what seems like eternity so it's nice to feel productive. plus i was thinking that any activity/exersize would help "jump start" my natural opiates...i've also been trying to eat well and drink healthy. i guess i 'm prepping for the lower end of the tapering.if i develop a schedule i can better evaluate if i'm not feeling right. like i mentioned in prior posts i really want to do this right. i have no desire to use dope or anything i'm fortunate to be passed that but i don't want to be dependent on subs forever it is very spiritually confining for me.

Fun Times 3 years ago

awwwwwww man.....Merchantofdeath....i just assumed you were a guy. damn it. that's a cool name for a chick. lol. i'm glad all is well. i like your comments very much. no misdunderstanding...just another case of a narcissitic addict...me...thinking the world revolves around myself. one day....i'll realize it doesn't. fun times!

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

ya i like that the name is ambigious....hey no worries...& you are the center of your world...but when i talk to somebody or whatever i'll put their name first so there isn't any confusion...you'll find though that most of my posts will be just ramblings sort of reminds me of diary of a madman by bukowski...i just go off on rants...that's what i like about this site..it helps me clear up my thinking and try to find the point behind whatever it is i'm thinking. my head...i call it the committee b/c i picture a "board" of different people [atheist, moralist, scientist, rebel, etc.] sitting at this table inside my head and whatever comes up for debate they all scabble and have different perspectives which leads to different outcomes or solutions to whatever it may be that i'm contemplating so needless to say getting it all out and in front of me helps organize my thoughts. oh and i too enjoy your posts.

K 3 years ago

Fune Times - no worries. i'm a big girl and can take some criticism. You don't have to apologize for how you feel or what you think. Thanks for doing so, though.

Merchant - I wish you had come onto this site about three weeks ago when i first stopped my subs. I definitely needed a better taper plan. I had myself down to 4mgs a day and thought that was low enough to stop cold turkey. Needless to say I experienced the WORST w/d symptoms that seemed to go on forever. I went 9 days on 0mgs before i could get a hold of my dr who told me to take 1-2mg every few days to help my body adjust. I took 1.5 mgs 9 days ago and plan on taking another 1mg tonight before i go to bed (1.5 every nine days seems reasonable). I was nervous about it at first, but the more i experience this and the more i read it seems like i was putting myself through more pain than was actually necessary. I'm on day 18 (with a tiny piece every 9 for i'm gonna say the first 27 days) and i feel a hell of a lot better than i did on any other day (well maybe not 9 but that's a given). Also i am very grateful that i am not trying to do this at home. Being in India makes trying to score H or oxys damn near impossible and i fear that if I were in my regular environment i would have picked up again to ease the pain. This has certainly not been fun, but i'm finally starting to feel proud of myself instead of constantly ashamed. Thanks to everyone. I really appreciate having a place to go when things get too hard or i just need to vent to someone about detoxing. Take care everyone

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

K you sound like me being in a big hurry and starting that vicious cycle over and over again...i strongly suggest scoping out the website i posted it seems to be helping me out alot. i too put myself through unnecassary pain. if you do go to the site seekout the 2 members i mentioned and fill them in. dr.'s usually go by a universal tapering schedule instead of tailoring it to individual needs and adjustments.

everybody's body reacts so differently to coming of subs that's why when you read posts about people detoxing it ranges so vastly in experiences. i've come to realize that no one experience is goin' to measure up to my own & one on one guidance is the most responsible thing i could do for my body & finally taper off correctly thus ending the vicious cycle.

it sounds like your doing well though...keep up the good work & my boyfriend and i are contemplating moving to europe where people work to live instead of living to work like here in the states. we're saving up to relocate sometime next year after getting married...can't wait.we have a few ideas of where we want to check out but if you travel often and have any suggestions that would be great! he's a mechanic [gearhead sooo bad!] & in a couple of years i'll have my degree in neuroscience with a double minor in religion & philosophy. i think they are pretty good fields for relocating. oh and i'm very jealous of you K! :) happy trails in india.

queenie 3 years ago

hi everyone, Merchantofdeath, i guess you didnt see i posted my entire detox on this site (just scroll up and you will see). Im coming up on 6 weeks and im sleeping 8 hours again eating great and have gained most of my weight back (135). Today i went to Hollister and spent 220 on new duds! How awesome to buy clothes instead of drugs. I think everyone should continue to keep it real on this site , thats what makes it great!

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

queenie...? i'm not sure where you got the idea that i didn't read your posts by what i wrote....but i did read them. i'm pretty sure that i stated that the day to day journals of those dextoxing was, in my eyes, one of the best assests of this hub. either way i'm happy to hear your doing well.

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

.75mg day 1 [taper day 5]

am dose .25mg

k well i had to take the 4mg i had and smash it into powder...kinda scary...and break it into .25mg & .50mg all guessing of course. so then i made little "envelopes" out of post it, the non stick kind, and divide up the next 6 days of my schedule.

i took my am dose of .25mg like an hour ago and i seem to be okay. i've been drinking hot tea just incase the stupid chills sneak up on me. i'll be reposting later after i take my .50mg pm dose. this will go on for the next 4days. by then i'll def. know if my body is adjusting accordingly since the 1/2 life of my previous doses are still intermingling with my biochemistry. but so far i feel okay other than tripping myself out. i'm trying to stay busy...cleaning & other misc. apt. chores as well as eat all 3 meals and load up on liquids. i feel like i'm preparing my body for some chemicla warfare.......well i guess i am....the better prepped and armed the better my chances of overcoming whatever may come my way.

anyways i'm feeling okay and i'll post the pm prognosis later on....

Fun Times! 3 years ago

it's cool that everyone is doing better. K-thaks for being cool...and I am proud of you too. I'll never actually meet you...but i am genuinely proud of you. thats's an interesting dynamic of this site...i'm never actually going to meet anyone on it...but damn if i don't feel for you. i do. i kicked in a fairly non-sensical way...not doing as smart of a taper as I could have (as previously noted...my judgment is really bad), but i did honestly get one benefit...this particular kick really was unpleasant...i spent by far the better part of everyday for like 2 months on the floor....i slept on the floor...etc., etc. that after going through this 'ordeal' life is quite easy now. it takes an awful lot to phase me after that...and that awful of a lot has happened yet...i remain unphased. i may get angry...but it's extremely short lived. i don't have time to be angry.

i just celebrated 3 months without subs (and other shit)...and i am proud.

Ms. Merchant of Death....I'm really glad you are here. i like to journal...awesome benefit. i love to rant...clears my head. i like 'talking' with people who are doing what i am. i like to help. i like to be helped. i was tinking about your atheist member of your commitee. i used to love and read nietzsche...quite a firm atheist in my early 20s. then one day it kinda occurred to me...athiesm is as dogmatic as catholism (i'm proud to say i was an altar boy...for the current cardinal of chicago when he was just a priest...and never got molested ;) ) he was cool. but atheist say there is no God. really...how do you know. it's a faith, like catholism. you can believe there is no God...which is the exact same faith someone uses when they believe their is one. you cannot prove either scientifically...so they are both purely faith based ideas. to be agnostic seems to be the one 'reasoned' approach. they admit...who knows?

sure...the judeau-christrian bible can be found to be simply inaccurate on many levels. scientifically unsound. contradictory in itself...eye for an eye...turn the other cheek. mutually-exclusive ideas. i am kinda big on how Jesus...if he existed...carried himself. he had the whole bill and ted's 'just be excellent to one another vibe' which is cool. be excellent to each other. a final thought on religion. doestoevsky called it the opium of the people. that does sound appealing to me...hahaha. opium without the withdrawals...lemme get some. happy Easter Christians...and thank God or thank oxygen...it's FRIDAY!!!!!!!! Fun Times!

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

Fun times...your posts are always stimulating...i tend to look at the school of thought behind anything fundamentalist instead of the often corrupt organization. i always took nietsche as somebody who questioned the meaning of existence not so much as contemplated it's origin...although if you read in between the lines it's obvious what he thought.

it's funny how your just born a certain way...i've have def. been hard wired since birth to question everything and my natural "bottom line" to all is bleak & morbid. however i have this huge existentialist side to me that has created this uproar of spiritual rhetoric to carry on inside me....which i'm forever grateful for.it's like my birth given beekon guiding me through musty dark thoughts that perpetually circulate through my mind.i can laugh at myself though...i always come to the conclusion that the only real nilist is a dead one....:) but it's very thought process that validates the empty life style of addiction to me [or has] what's the point in caring anyways???? well i've obviously come to terms with that by deciding i create the significance....i create the reality i chose to experience everyday....so which life is to be? sort of a tabula rasa carpe diem metaphysical cocktail i guess...but hey it gets me through ya know....

c what you have started...tsk tsk...no i have to settle everybody down.....

spell check is for metrosexuals...lol...inside thing

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

sorry it's sacreligious to misspell nihilist....lmao

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

oh & as far as jesus i have this standing theory...i actually came close to writing it as a reflection paper in a low level theology course....summerized:ya know how back in the day how people where easily impressed.okay well now adays the intellectual crazies that are like on time square ranting enlightening but insane nonsense their that their the messiah and they say demands need to be meet well i believe jesus may have been a hybrid of a crazy and a david blaine...crazy man w/cool tricks...like the dude on tv...FIRE THE POWER OF CHRIST COMPELLS YOU...and they walk omg it's a miracle...believe strong enough and it does become your reality....well it goes alot deeper but that's the jist....thought you'd find particular string of thoughts entertaining....but ya anybody chill w/ a solid soul makes a good role model

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

.75mg day 1

.50mg pm dose

well i must say i started to feel a wee bit lathargic and felt the chills but i also know that i wasn't doing much to distract myself either. but it was tolerable i mean i could still function and take a nap if needed so like on a scale from 0-10 i'll give my symptoms a 1 and i'm sure i'll be okay i'm gonna stick with my schedule and see what day 4 brings. i think taking the .25mg in the am is was the hard part cause i took the 1mg in it's entirety yesterday morning....i should have split the dosing into .50am/pm...oh well i feel fine actually now that i dosed like an hour ago adn tomorrow afternoon will probably be the same but if this is the worst....i'd b grateful....i've had worse colds....k will keep ya posted

Fun Times 3 years ago

awwwww merchant (may i call you merchant or death ;) ) great post. yeah...i remember my existentialist days...they were 'real' fun. not 'fake' drug fun. i wasn't on dope yet (first run at college). i actually stole beyong good and evil and human all too human and daybreak from my college library. hahahahahahaha. i bought the hollingdale edition of zarathustra...they only had the bogus one by kauffman or someone...i purposely forgot his name b/c i took my nietzsche seriously and he did such a poor job. i agree that he had a life affirming message....not a nihilist like schopenhauer...imo...nietzsche evolved. being and time, being and nothingness...i dug that shit alot...those were truly fun times. it's kinda cool remembering back to when i cared enough about this stuff to ditch class and go in the library and read all the existentialism they had. yeahhhh...don't grow old...it sucks.

if you really wanna wrap your mind around some shit...seriously....i am talking the most absolutely insane motherfucking genius stuff i have ever seen...buy Alan Moore's Mindscape. dvd. phewwww. i didn't dig the movies...but watchmen was cool (the comic), v for vendetta was bad as shit....and then miraclemen man hit with an opening sequence quoting zarathustra....he is this lightning....he is this madness. fuck. the movie is insane...Mindscape of Alan Moore. phewwwww.

zeitgeist online is fairly entertaining...you probably saw it...if not...click and watch. 911...christianity...the fed...i mean i have a business degree with honors and i never paid attention enough to realize that we do not have american money in our pockets...there is no such thing as american money (except for the uncirculated silver back securities jfk printed before eating a bullet)...our cash is printed from a bank owned by the rockefellers, rothschilds, and morgans. that sucks. they just pay for the paper and ink. headline...they just printed a trillion more dollars...what the fuck do they care. its only fiat cash...backed by...the paper it is printed on. fun times.

hey...maybe you shouldn't be morbid. i found existentialism to be really life affirming. you are young. the stupid reason i got turned off of all of it was when i read that nietzsche went kida insane after being dumped by that chick that freud was bamging. i was dating a hot blonde...i figured...fuck...if he's flipping out over a chick and i gotta pretty cool one...maybe i shouldn't be taking this shit that seriously. great judgment on my part once again. in fairness...when you are a 20 year old guy with a really hot girlfriend...life is pretty fucking cool. fun times. stay cool ms. merchant of death. love your comments

dustybug 3 years ago

yeah I'm not saying I'm smarter than most people, I'm just wishing my mind wasn't always going. Like when I'm cleaning the house, I'm not thinking 'yes, only a couple more minutes and the house is clean and I got the rest of the day!' what I'm thinking is, 'Only a couple more minutes the house is cleaned and I gotta do it all over again in a few days." Its weird bc I hate thinking I'm prob depressed, but I've been on depression medicine and refuse taking that shit again because it just makes you numb (different kind of numb than opiates). Its a numb that doesn't make lifes little annoyances less dreadful so you can get them done and over with, it's a numb that makes it so you don't even do life's annoyances and you don't give a fuck if they ever get done!....so when I was at my parents home one day and my dad & mom who are total normal working class people, say, wanna try a piece of this little green pill?... Sure, why not? My parents NEVER did drugs in my entire life (24 years at the time) and NEVER even kept a bottle of wine in the house, why wouldn't I try it? Well that day is when life's annoyances stopped being annoying and started being enjoyable... long story short, once I figured out how much the shit costs (bc pops was giving them to me for free) I had a full blown addiction to oxys and no longer felt right taking them for free from my parents (aw, isn't that nice of me?). After about 6 months, I figured when I worked (made cash) half of my money to buy drugs and half to pay bills. Well bc I'm cheap (which doesn't make a good drug addict) I stopped taking the oxys and got on subs. I guess I've spent a year on subs now, and I'm down to 1mg a day, sometimes .5 mg a day. Just feel like I'm at a standstill though, because I wanna cross the bridge to the clean side but the troll keeps beating me back once I get to day 3 or 4. ::sighs::

queenie 3 years ago

Merchant....sorry i was at work and a co-worker(and dear friend) was reading post to me and she is obviously not as interested as me and was reading fast. Your post was then misconstrewed. Anyway, i wish you the best and will pray for you. As far as finding God goes Ask and you will recieve, seek and you will find,Knock and the door will be opened for you(matt 7-7). Its kinda hard for me to imagine there is no God. If there isnt one why dont we all just go buck wild? What have we to lose if this is all there is? I should just kill as many people as i can and take all there stuff cause after this its over....right? oh but wait....theres this thing called a conscience or still small voice that lets you know right from wrong. I belive that is God. I also find it hard to believe that the universe is a big bang or accident. It seems to me that someone planned very carefully. Trees need CO2 and we need O2 and kindly exchange with eachother. When a baby is born it does'nt have the antibodies to fight off infection but right before birth there is an exchange of antibodies from the mother via the placenta that last approx two weeks in the baby. When a new born is then breastfed, it takes in something called colostrum that provides nutrients and antibiotics until the baby produces its own. The fact that a man fits perfectly into a woman and then from this seed and egg comes a human. The sun is just perfectly placed far enough away that we dont burn up and yet close enough that we can sustain life. Everything about the human body has a purpose to protect us from the tears in your eyes to the wax in your ears to the discharge in the vagina.I could go on and on and sometimes do but for typing puposes i will not. Before this last relapse that lasted 3 months, i had 4 years clean(almost). In the beginning of that 4 years i found God through prayer and bible study. I attribute my strenghth in that time to God. It was when i began to fall away that i relapsed. What ever you do i respect your chose to get clean. And i,d like you to know there are alot of cool Godly people who have come through hard times (bikers, hookers, drug addicts) and are not these goody-goody nun type a**holes. Its hypocrites that give God a bad name. I send you strength, and happiness

Fun Times 3 years ago

wow. this site is getting deep in a sincerely cool way. alright. Dustybug....you have truly got me beat already (and i will NEVER and have never used sarcasm toward anyone here). you actually clean your house! wow! you win. i swear...i was just kidding with this chick at work about how my office looks like a a south american steppe pyramidal ladder of files...which for me...if it's in a file...thank God. worse is a tornado strewn office full of loose paperwork. papers important enuff that as candid as i am...i'm too embarassed to desrcibe. gosh. i told this young lady...my pad....that's a different story. if you've made it into my pad than you must know me...and hence cannot possibly be suprised that when you walk in you'll see project mayhem is going down there. i try and keep my car clean...but as you said: WHY? THE FUCKING THING IS JUST GONNA GET DIRTY AGAIN. ENUFF!!!

Dustybug...if can clean your house on 1mg of subs....you are like fucking wonder woman. i aint kidding. give yourself a fucking break. when i was on 1 mg...go ahead...ask me to clean some shit b/c i want to. to make it look nice? try it with a fucking gun. then go home looking at my f'ed pad. i was stuck on the floor...unable to break inertia. u have motivated me enuff to make me consider possibly cleaning...in a week or two. that's progress for me.

Do yourself a favor and give yourself a break. you are not sucking down oxy's like tic tacs. that didn't turn out well. 1mg of suboxone....i am no doctor...but ms. merchant of death had a great point....stay on 1 mg until you are completely stable. that's how i f'ed up all my methadone detoxes. i would go down fast. once i hit 30 mg, i was sick...like a clockwork orange...i would suppliment my meth with H. it worked out the same every (and i mean every) time...i was off methadone and back on H. and i kept wondering...how the fuck did this happen again?

you are really doing great K-, Dustybug, Queenie, MerchantofDeath...all of you. stressing over something like a milligram...please quit it. give yourself a break. take your milligram and chill out. i used to preay for a day when one single milligram of anything would allow me to function. like Queenie said...i asked God...(really i just told Him kill me if you want...i give up)...but God saw me through this thing.

Queenie..it's always nice to hear your spirituality. i would say that even if i knew God didn't exist...i would be cool to people. life is a gift enough. heaven would be like hitting the lottery. i've heard people win....i'm not expecting it. and i wouldn't kill anyone because i been to cook county jail. i mean...it's not even a nice place to visit...i certainly am not trying to live there.

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

fun times......i've seen zeigist...shit gets me all wound up...i'm chomsky fan when it comes to social order.i can get into that later....it's the weekend and my b/f doesn't have work.....hooray...so i'm gonna TRY to be brief. i've never seen mindscape i'm gonna go and dld it....fuck payin' unless i decide it's worth it then i'll support it. i've seen alot of movies......i love art especially anything expressive like david lynch's earlier animations...since we're talking films...here's an animation i really liked [it's not lynch] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsGEWHNJ3s8 scope it out...it's pretty deep. oh and i'm gonna dld mirclemen...i loved v is for vendetta....if your a film buff i'll put together a wee list later on for ya and see if anything is new to you.

dustybug man my apt usually looks like dexter's but right now you would think i was ramsacked by some patriot act happy swat nazies....seriously fuck it...i'm more like funtimes when i'm down and out....cleaning is not a priority...give yourself a break!

queenie it's great your all one with god. i'm not looking for him or whatever i stopped believing in santa too. i don't mean to sound harsh it's cool your good but i'm good on fairy tales. it's awesome you have that....i'm with bill mayer...religion is usually for people in foxholes...i almost envy you have this feeling of somebody omnipotent watching over you and caring....however i can't even fake myself into that....i'm not trying to knock you i appreciate the whole ask and you shall receive you put time into but post for your sake not mine....i have come to terms w/my own set of beliefs that get me through the day their just not your standard out of a mold god beliefs...but like i said it's awesome you feel content w/your god it's def. a good thing....oh and sorry i have faith that humans can morally function w/out some religious mandate hanging over their head....it's cool you believe god's voice guides you...i just call it human nature....i've never believed in some afterlife consequence and i have yet to kill...i emphasize the yet...lol...seriously and the cycles of life...well my daughter is always asking about this she's only 4 but like me distracted w/ the meaning of life and mortality...you could def. tell she comes from me...and nobody knows but keep a good head about you question everything if god made all this then who made god another god...so a russian set of gods exsists???? i don't see it i don't claim to know the answers....saying god knows best and we can't grasps gods intentions well fuck him he doesn't make any sense...his means doesn't justify the ends alot of the times and he's a sick fuck w/what goes on here on earth..oh wait that's where we say it's the devil right...so that's a quick cop out we made a bad guy to take the wrap???god is all powerful so that nix the devil right there. i'm sorry i just think if there is one he's in need of some serious therapy and his humor is sicker than mine.

.75 day 2 [taper day 6]

k well last night i was restless and had chills so i took .25mg before bed...i'm waiting on my schedule guy to tell me which option he wants me to take i suggested a few. i think i'm going to take 1mg broken up throughout the day instead of the .75 right now and spread out the hours as to get to the point i only need .75mg..not sure i'll be back w/the update...i just wanted tolet everybody know what's going on.

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

funtimes...i hear ya about the 1mg i do laugh at myself from time to time but i feel an uneasyness....i haven't done anything "hard" in a minute now...thankfully. but i'm sort of the type that likes being one w/myself complete all natural. i won't feel that until my using of anything is in a complete state of arrest. it's like i mentioned earlier about a spriritual jihad taking place. for no other reason do i want off. fuck social validation or anything to that nature....i need to feel me...the raw me...nothing sythetic....i crave the day i'm liberated...that is what drives me...i have come along way with the finish line in the distance taunting and teasing me like some school girl w/a jacked up skirt....i can almost have it i'm right there....just just just oh yeah that's right...there's a dante's 10 circle of hell just before it...ahhhh reality...it sucks.....but with virgil at myside i'll get through...[virgil my support...you guys my b/f my inner strength].....so yes 1mg only not so bad except it is still 1mg and i have not yet won my freedom.

Fun Times 3 years ago

ms. mechant of death. yikes...you are a liitle raw about the GOD thing. it's your right...the patriot act has shut this site down yet. I mean,,,dig Bill Maher...denounce pantheons...but really...you are prety upfront about telling God loving people that he is santa claus. you don't know that. religion and spirituality are different. if someone has a spiritual relationship with God...and is kicking...i'm gonna do the rodney king and say for the sake of us all 'can't we just get along'.

finally...the movies suck.. buy the comics..or steal them. take care.

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

funtimes...k i'll check out the comics. and no nobody knows what's going on with the god thing....but isn't funny when somebody is passionatly projecting their opposition it's oppressive and yet the other way around it's people expressing their love??? hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...i play nice i'm not putting anybody down i'm just giving my opinion in turn for hearing others

Fun Times 3 years ago

man i love this site.. i love the rants more than anything. they're the most sincere. hearing about a tapering schedule is a really good idea. but the rants...i can't buy this kinda shit. thank you all. Dustybug...it occurred to me after rereading your post. you are one motherfucking responsible addict. i am really fucking pulling for you here. in the midst of my full blown addiction...fuck...bills? if i happened to have cash left over from all the H (in fairness...i kinda lucked/unlucked out by aquiring substantial funds in what may be considered by people a slightly illicit manner)...i may pay a bill or two. rent...i ususally paid...albeit late. i guess i paid every bill...albeit late. i wasn't living without cable.

i'm kinda misssing/envious of evrybody's kick. i'm not trying to brag or boast (as it is obviously not something to be proud of...and i care about you folks alot...but you're not worth lying to...nobody on this planet is so 'important' that i feel like i have to lie to them...as shakepaere said...'to thine own self be true...and in doing so you will never be able to lie to another man'...slight paraphrase possibly)...but my kick really was 'different' then what i'm reading.

Chills?!? holy fuck. believe in God...don't believe...cool. someone is looking out for you folks with chills. when i hit 1mg...in very short order from 8mg...i was FROZEN TO THE FUCKING MARROW. after i woke up...i could not move for about an hour and a half b/c my core temperature had to re-establish itself. my body quit producing heat. no lie. RESTLESS?!!@!!! fuck what i would have gave to be a liitle restless. i was up 23 hous a day for weeks...plural. i'm just gonna be really honest. when i posted early about doing silly shit to kick...i was under the assumption that 'of course everyone was kicking like me'. MY PAIN RECEPTORS LITERALLY SHUT DOWN...as i said before. the silly shit i was doing involved inflicting violence upon myself...hoping to feel some pain...but that took alot. from punching myself to induce cramps...to wailing on myself with a hard wood stick...i did that. shit like begging friends to 'please...just hit me as hard as you can...not in the face b/c i have to work'. i didn't cut myself b/c i didn't want to hurt myself...just get some pain.

this was how that started. one day during a ruff H kick i stumbled in the night and smacked my shin really hard against a table. i wave of ecstacy washed over me. the pain didn't register in my brain...i was psychotic...but it did register in my shin...which told my brain to produce some some natural pain killing dopamine or serotonin or something to my body. i swear...it was that cozy warm feeling that washed over me like i had when abusing H. just didn't last as long. so...i used the pain game...and i have been on zero subs for months now. ruff kick.

back to my point. you folks are doing great. i'm not jealous..i'm happy and proud of all of you. ALL OF YOU....of course you want to be on ZERO right now if you are not. I'm just saying: as a whole i believe a couple things. getting to zero NOW...sounds like an addict seeking instant gratification. i want this now. and also sounds like 'as i often display' f'ed up judgment. really...you are all doing so well...let yourselves be proud...not miserable. one day i woke up in so much pain...physically and emotionally...that i spent fifteen minutes on the floor opening and shutting my eyes...trying to decide which hurt less. of course i was utterly paralyzed...literally. that was my f'ed up i want off all this shit now kick. i want. fuck what i want...better to think about what i truly needed...8 to zero quick wasn't it. please everyone...if you are really low on your dose...like a single milligram....just chill until you chill. THEN kicking off one will be a moonwalk.

Merchant...i want your movie list...PLEASE. I NEED MOVIES!!!!!! just tell me Fight Club made your cut! American Pscycho? and fuck me...christian bale in the machinist...fuck...that guy is insane. wow. awwwww...and my sentimental favourite...True Romance. fucking Clarence was cool. ps...that alan moore flik is makes zeitgeist seem as profound as cinderella. that aint even a movie...that's something different.

Queenie...I could not have gotten through this but for the help of God. I believe God has a name. it is Mercy. Luv you all!

Baby Steps 3 years ago

hello people,

Baby Steps 3 years ago

Ok it works, i wasnt sure if you could just write something and then send it, but you can, so ANYONE reading these POSTS PLEASE COMMENT OR SEND SOME WORDS OF WISDOM. I have been on day 4 of my cleaning, OMG I FEEL GREAT, heres a little back ground, i have been on workmens comp now for 4 years and i just turned 23, i have 2 herniated disks in my lower back at L5 and S1 and a buldge at L4, and let me tell you, i have been in EXCRUCIATING, almost unbearable pain from my work injury everyday!!! Now let me tell you, YOU PEOPLE ARE NOT ALONE!!! i got caught up in over doing my medicines, i was on 4 roxy 30's, 3 roxy 15's and 3 perk 10's, and also 50mg of the Fet patches, now thats alot of SHIZ. yeah i know, but at first it didnt start that way, i told my doc almost ever other month the meds wernt working and they kept goin up and up. and i was eating more and more, my tolerance SKY ROCKETED through the roof, EVERYDAY I WOKE UP, feeling so MAD AND DEPRESSED WITH MY LIFE. mad at myself, the fact that i got hurt while working, totally DEPRESSED ABOUT LIFE AND WANTED TO KILL MYSELF, Now for the people out there that think about doing something so pathetic, DONT YOU DARE PUT THOUGHTS LIKE THAT IN YOUR HEAD, God put you and I on this world for some reason, im 23 and i dont know why im here but i know and believe in my heart that there is a PURPOSE HERE ON THIS PLANT, and TO EVERYONE OUT THERE, THERE IS A PURPOSE FOR YOU TOO, EVERYONE was put here for some reason, now i believe in GOD and you have to...where do you think we came from....huh...? really think about it, SOMEONE PUT US HERE....so dont EVER THINK YOUR NOT SUPPOSED TO BE HERE....Because YOU ARE, You are special in MANY WAYS, if its helping your elderly neighbor take the trash out or giving HOPE AND WORDS OF WISDOM to a young child whos doing drugs. PLEASE EVERYONE LIFE IS EXTREAMLY HARD AND I KNOW THIS AT 23. now i dont know about you but if you think of life as a huge game, dont you always wanna win, who wants to loose, not me. LIFE IS A BITCH AND A HUGE CHALLENGE, God has us all dangling on string by his finger tips, he throws us CHALLENGES TO SEE HOW STRONG WE ARE, EVEYTHING IN LIFE IS A CHALLENGE, now LETS FIGHT THREW THESE CHALLLENGES......lets fight threw this. DONT BE A LOOSER, BE A WINNER, show him and everyone else you can fight the world with no problem, everyday there is some challenge we all have to get thru them, if its work, kids, bills....whatever, get up, get going and lets TEAR THIS SHIT UP!!! show your family and friends YOUR A WINNER!!! now i know its hard, im in alot of pain...but there are lots of things that you can do instead of eating pills, and getting high....SHOWERS....omg...there SOOOOOO HELPFULL...there was a posting, someone saying showers throw your mind off and they do....you wanna BREAK THE HABBITS, like waking up and popping pills before you shower or throughout the day whenever you do what you do.....BREAK YOUR USUAL SCHEDUAL, shower at night, switch your daily life style up, when someone asks you to go out, the bar, a movie, whatever DO IT, DONT JUST SIT AT HOME AND DWELL ON WHAT U DONT HAVE, WHAT YOU LOST, WHAT YOU SHOULDA DID....the HELL WITH THAT, you did what u did and look at where you are now.....YOU HAVE NOTHING, MAYBE LOST YOUR FRIENDS, WIFE, HUSBAND....NO MONEY IN YOUR BANK ACCOUNT....whateva.....DONT WORRIE THOSE ARE THINGS YOU CAN GET BACK.....YOU HAVE TO PUSH YOURSELF, YOU HAVE TO GET OUTTA BED AND MOVE ON.....oh dont forget, the best saying ever, "YOUR BEST IDEA IS YOUR WORST IDEA, AND THATS WHY YOU ARE WHRE YOU ARE NOW....DONT WORRIE THO..there are family and friends, doctors and even TOTAL STRANGERS OUT THERE THAT WILL HELP YOU....YOU GOTTA WIN, the shit gets old, theres ONLY SO MUCH YOU CAN DO AT ONCE......SO TAKE BABY STEPS....YOU CANT FIX EVERYTHING IN ONE DAY SOBER BUT IMAGINE WHAT YOU CAN DO IN A WEEK...or a MONTH.....yeah ALOT MORE...so just take one day at a time, theres no rush....you are where you are now because you were careless....but thats ok.....its called life....NO ONE IS PERFECT....NO ONE...i HAVE FAITH IN EVERYONE ONE WHO READS THIS...if you need someone to talk to IM HERE....ask me whateva....i will do whateva i can to help anyone who wants help....oh i forgot....i am on SUBS...a half of a 8mg daily.and for the people out there who ABUSE THEM....YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELF, YOU ARE WEAK AND NEED HELP, subs are for the people who wanna get clean and stay clean...PLEASE PEOPLE I KNOW IT SUCKS....the sweats, the shits, the sick feeling, BUT WHEN YOUR DONE YOU ARE GONNA FEEL LIKE YOU JUST FOUGHT 1000 people with your bear hands and WON....I BELEIVE IN YOU....I HOPE AND PREY FOR EVERYONE OUT THERE WITH THIS PROBLEM....but hey....DONT WORRIE, YOU CAN DO IT, YOU HAVE THE POWER AND EVERYONE HERE HAS THE FAITH...and HOPE IN YOU....HOPE and faith....strong words......they mean YOU CAN DO IT AND WE HAVE YOUR BACK...stop feeling and being so SELFISH about life, theres people that need your help too, so dont forget that, YOU AND I ARE NOT THE ONLY PEOPLE OUT HERE. TALK to people, tell them how you feel, you can do it.....someone said to laugh alot...well i totally agree with that....IT WORKS....TURN THE RADIO ON AND SING....BRING BACK THOSE HAPPY FEELINGS by doing something constructive....watch TV and MOVIES too....SMILE...be around people who care about you, not people who will give you drugs, they dont care about you if their giving you stuff....dont forget MISSERY LOVES COMPANY....ITS TRUE, hey if you have to leave your girl or man for a week THEN DO IT....TAKE A BREAK….TELL THEM YOU NEED TO START WORRYING ABOUT YOURSELF NOW....your HEALTH IS EXTREAMLY IMPROTANT....think of what you do to your body....wow....these drugs and your body arnt meant to do and take all those drugs...you dont want, kidney problems or heart transfers do you..?...NO YOU DONT....ALSO EAT AS MUCH FOOD AS YOU CAN....orange juice and drinks with lots of healty stuff.....go get what you want....if its pizza, wings, skittles candy....whateva works so when your eating your giving your mind and body and sense of happiness...do things that used to make you happy, go to the movies, sing to yourself, play the drums....whateva....JUST SMILE AND LAUGHT AND YOUR MIND AND BODY WILL START TO RE-FILL THOSE MISSING HAPPY FEELINGS and YOUR FEEL GREAT.....I PROMISE!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOOK.....think about LIFE, YOU ARE SPECIAL, you are GREAT, YOU ARE HERE FOR SOME REASON....ok...everyone is...dont do nothing stupid, PICTURE WHAT HELL LOOKS LIKE........I KNOW I WOULDNT EVEN WANNA IMAGINE WHAT LIFE WOULD BE LIKE THERE IN HELL....know if your thinking well ive been there, i know what its like...........ok.........well.....hummm....lets see....NO YOU DONT!!! AND JUST KNOW YOU DONT WANNA KNOW....ok...im 23 and ive been on shit for 4 years now....i NEVER THOUGHT I COULD EVEN THINK ABOUT STOPING, but there comes a time in a mans life when ENOUGHT IS ENOUGHT AND ITS MY TIME....THE LINE HAS TO BE DRAWN AND SO DOES YOURS, if you already havent tryed... SO STOP BEING A LOOSER AND START BEING A WINNER....and EVERYTHING ELSE WILL FALL IN PLAY, GOD KNOWS YOU HAD IT ROUGH....STAY STRONGER THAN EVER AND GET IT DONE....NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE....im walking proof....dont you wanna be...GOD BLESS ALL AND PLEASE COMMENT ABOUT ANYTHING......TELL US HOW YOU FEEL...LOVE YOU ALL...REMEMBER EVERDAY IS A NEW DAY....BABY STEPS PEOPLE BABY STEPS...

ALSO THANK TO EVERYONE HERE I AM CLEAN DAY 4 and continuing.....GOD BLESS :)

YOU CAN DO IT!!!-------------------------->

queenie 3 years ago

Merchant, i wish you peace, joy and happiness. You sound angry and mean right now and i understand that, detoxing is a miserable thing. I was just trying to help . I gained alot of personal and spiritual growth through the 12 steps of recovery that is centered around God(or higher power for those who do not want to use the G word).If you are your own God thats great but for most addicts a divine intervention is extreamly helpful and i was just offering hope. I did not mean to offend you. I have been on this site for some time now and we encourage each other and discuss w/d symptoms. My words were to share my experiance,strength,and hope with you and if your not wanting to here that ,i accept that. Congradulations on your progress and i look forward to watching your posts and seeing that you get clean. Funtimes, thanks bro. Your awesome and we've helped eachother through. Im proud of your growth and that your in recovery too. I wish i was closer to you i would enjoy your company. k, i hope your doing well and wish you all the best and you too dustybug!

queenie 3 years ago

baby steps, uh yeah..............ok........keep coming back!

William Allen 3 years ago

Hello all. Some quick background... I am in my mid 20s and was doing oxys on and off at 18 and 19. When I hit my twenties it started to be evident that I had a problem. Well the long and short of it is I decided to go to detox and was givin a 5 day suboxone cycle after being on 160 mgs of oxy a day (give or take). When I left the program I had some mild deppression and some insomnia but nothing too bad at all. Well, I messed up and started using again and got to a point to where if I didnt use I was an absolute worthless mess. Due to a very good job which I had, I seeked out a suboxone outpatient treatment. During my initial meeting I asked the usual questions about length of use of the suboxone and the withdrawal symptoms assosiated with it. I was told that I had to be on the subs for at least 6 months so that I could psycologically get out of the habit of being high. Well needless to say, after 6 months and being told to stay on the subs I started to taper myself off. Funny thing started to happen, I would actually feel cravings for the subs. Well the last time I saw my doc I asked what amount of subs I can safely stop at w/o feeling withdrawals. I was told that if I take 2 mgs in the am and 2 mgs in the pm, the withdrawls would be negligable.

Well let me tell you, tonight marks day 4 on 0 subs, my last dose being 4 mgs on last Tueday (today is saturday). I havent slept a wink for a few days even though I have been taking melatonin. I havent missed a day of work even though it is almost unbearable to be out of bed. All I can say is I have absolutely no desire to give in no matter what the pain, I'm just disgusted with the way I was misinformed about the subs. Thank God I found this site.

Showers are a God send, also excersise, excersise, excersise. Running is good if you can, but I prefer weights till my muscles quiver. It is weird but the pain is almost welcome. At one point I dropped to my knees, dumbell still in hand, and started to yell and weep. It wasnt the weights but just an emotional rush of resentment for the path I had chosen. Needless to say, on any given day more addicts choose to keep using then to stop. I give you one peice of advice in this regard, take the path less chosen. Embrace the pain. It is not just withdrawals, its a higher calling. Our experiences in life make us what we are and to be honest, anyone who can make it thru withdrawing from opiates can do amazing things.

When it comes to God, I know peoples views vary. Here are my thoughts on the subject. Whether you believe god to be the singular higher being in JudeoChristianIslamic tradition or if god is just some vague higher power, the key to God is us. It is through our belief in God that God exists. I like to think of God as an internet of souls. There are many ways to tap into the strength that this internet offers, one way of which I am sure leads to this is through trial and tribulation. What the ancients used to call enlightenment is the realization ( and even practice) that ones body is a vessel. Project, meditate, pray, whatever it takes to take your consciousness out of your body (exestentialism anyone). Learn from yourself, be at one with the world around you and embrace it. This is the path to true happiness. To all of you, which I consider my sisters and brothers, thank you so much for your words of wisdom and your help, 1 love and 1 soul. (Sorry, Im feeling kind of deep right now.

P.S. To all our christian friends and all those who believe in Jesus, Happy Easter

Fun Times 3 years ago

HAPPY EASTER!!!!!!!!! first...let get my narcissism out of the way....it was my idea (that cost me 7 grand) about the showers....and they do they work! hahahaha. and i want credit for eating everything i saw...dead or alive. stay busy...move around. oh man...i'm just playing (no swearing today...it's Easter) around. and yeahhhhh...it's time to get hard and fight the power. do everything baby steps said.

Baby Steps....please stick around. Fentanyl?!? phewwwww. shazam! for folks that don't know...until recently...doctors even couldn't give you fentanyl (maybe still can't) until they went through special courses...with the understanding that fentanyl is (per milligram) 100 (almost exactly) 100 times sronger than morphine. so i'll call it at least 75 times stronger than H. They weren't just giving that stuff out. a couple years ago in chicago dope addicts were dropping like flies. cops found out why. someone was putting fentanyl in the dope. pertanint point: when the H addicts started overdosing and dying...and i remember this...sales of that "dope that killed everyone" skyrocketed. everyone was looking for it. folks...that's insane. tip: a broken mind cannot fix a broken mind. get into recovery. tip: a smart man can learn from himself, a wise man can learn from others. get into recovery.

indian proverb: a young man asks the chief (his dad)- father there is a war inside my head. there are two wolves fighting. one wolf is kind, protective, selfless....the other is viscious, hateful, selfish. which wolf will win this fight...who will i become; Indian Chief- the one you feed. tip: feed the good wolf and get into recovery.

ms. merchant...don't compare Jesus Christ to david blaine or a tv preacher. you're smarter than that. when david blaine officiously (grab a dictionary...just kidding...but i know u got to) sacrifies himself for our sins...then ....still don't compare him. he aint Christ.

and William Allen...you are really cool man. please keep coming back.

Queenie (sweetheart), K-, Dustybug, Mechantofdeath, Baby Steps, William Allen...i need you guys man...please stick around. PLEASE.

today everyone do me a favour: don't forget to love yourselves.

Happy Easter!

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

i don't understand y it is i sound angry? cause i voice what i feel? the bottom line is....i think the whole believing in god has stopped the human race from evolving...i think it has caused way more destruction than peace....i think people hide behind it...they're afraid of their own mortality....it's childish actually....and i am happy for those it makes happy but just b/c i feel strongly about their not being a god doesn't mean i'm angry or it's b/c i'm coming off subs...man i'm more passionate about my convictions clean if anything...truth b told i knew i would get the responses i got b/c that is what always happens...if only i placed bets on this i would be rich....look when people go off about jesus or god or whatever it's devotion it's love....when people say nah man i think it's bullshit their bitter misguided blah blah blah the only thing i'm upset about.....if anything at all....is nobody here has been the exception...just b/c i don't believe in god doesn't mean i don't have love in my life or anything it just means it comes from me....i actually think i appreciate the good things on a higher level....when things are bad or good i can work with them b/c that is life not some preordained b.s. i'm not offended i just hear this same stuff over and over rehab meetings everywhere...i can't relate i don't feel that way i probably never will....however talk about human sacrifice or inner strength b/c of circumstance or whatever just something positive that is real

funtimes....i hold you in high regard however jesus is nothing but what i already stated and i will not retract...i'm not being a dick i sincerely believe in it's the same idea as my 4 yr.old thinking the tooth fairy came into her room...dude zeigist is another good way to open your mind type in the one about religions...seriously....u do realize their where many "christs" before him right w/ 12 disc. lazerous died rose from the dead???? old wife's tale switched up over time is all....i love the ideals of "christ" it's a good thing but unnecassary and people make huge sacrifices everyday their not the messiah and their pain is bad what happened to christ would be any easy alternative to them so please no i'm sorry but i just don't get it especially anybody as intelligent as you i guess it's the foxhole thing please do some theological research...oh and i'll have your movie list later on

i am 100% about expressing your beliefs and ideas i truly am i'm not a hyprocrite i just feel compelled to break that religious mold when i hear b/c life is profound w/ no god and you have done everything to make your reality and you should get the credit for being clean or take the blame for shit being messed up..i do wish everybody well and i do appreciate the help and support ....and educating people is a big deal to me..thinking outside the box...whatever reality has been passed down to you...question it all of it

Tapering

yesterday i didn't have time to repost but i ended up taking the .75mg but in 2 doses and later on in the day which seemed to work out just fine

today i have yet to take my dose i'm feeling slight chills and restless but i'll b okay i'll be taking my .25mg dose in an hour or so.i'll keep yas posted.

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

http://www.geocities.com/inquisitive79/godmen.html

this is only the tip of the iceberg there's alot more...i don't care if anybody believes in whatever all i'm saying is think about it for yourself...don't believe cause addiction sucked and now your clean or you almost died but you didn't believe b/c you know beyond a doubt it's real and you have educated yourself and your "big picture" of life comes from all the knowledge you could obtain it's the only logical answer do not believe for the sake that you've been preprogrammed that if you don't your bitter or negative..........just look at the "coincidences"....i don't know seems like "brave new world" to me...

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

.75mg day 3 [tapering day 7]

well i'm happy that yesterday i got through the day with only .75mg....hooray! as for w/d....i didn't experience anything at all however i was hanging out with my buddy captain morgan....which masked any uncomfortableness i would have naturally felt.

so i took my .25mg a wee bit ago and before hand i only felt the usual minor stuff which was barely there. i am starting to think that maybe it won't be so bad. still im a junkie and the idea of any w/d sends into instant fetal position....

Fun Times 3 years ago

merchant....it's still America...for now...so run wild...follow your heart (what else can u do...except possibly be thoughtful of others)...forget people's feelings or using judgment...like i do...and speak what you believe. just stay clean. i have been told by many people that i am very smart. tests said it. tests said i was real real smart. than why did i get hooked on everything you can imagine....junk included. poor judgment. whatever. hey i didn't attak you. you said everyone did. i like u, play nice. incidentally...i know u r smart enuff to realize that your atheism is as faith based as my Christianity. i can prove God exist just as easily as u can prove he doesn't. i'll make a bet with all atheist. bet u can't prove God doesn't exist. take me up on that...tell ur friends to also. that why i can win and be rich. lol.

hey...post that movie list already. just do it. i need movies. pulling for u merchant.

remember...you are a big girl. and smart. if you are expecting certain result...like ranting aout how God is the tooth fairy...knowing what you are gonna hear already...before even commenting on it. that's passe'. if i burn my neighbor's house down (stupid analogy....but i'm typing quick)..expecting him to get mad....knowing he will...betting on it...yeah...i'll will get rich. that's not my style.

i honestly think u have a great mind. good chance you are right about everything and i'm wrong. opium for the people is cool to me. i luved opium. shit...we can talk freely. couldn't offend me if u tried. other folks may possibly be offendable. food for thought. ps. zeitgeist is reallt full of shit with alot of things they reported on christianity. not everything u readonline is true...imagine that. stay cool everyone.

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

Hello everyone.... don't hate on the name, I'm just being stupid (anything to laugh while going through withdrawals!!!) I just recently found this site a couple of days ago, and I first just wanted to thank Queenie for posting her detox on here... It's hard to find people who have actually went through it, stayed off, and still want to talk about it, you know? Me and my husband are on day 16 of no suboxone... came off 2mg, but it was really like coming off 4mg because we only took 2mg for two days before we jumped off. Just couldn't take it anymore. We went through about 5 years of using hydro, fentanyl patches, tramadol, WHATEVER we could get - 4 of those years we were using daily. Then low and behold here was this freaking pamplet in our family doctor's office.... Are you or someone you know addicted to opiates?? We can help at the methadone clinic!!! I still want to kill myself for not researching methadone first. How stupid could we be? We had actually taken methadone before so we KNEW you feel so good off it.... I guess that was part of the allure. Plus we were spending about $200 a day on pills, our business was gone by now, we lost our house, our vehicles, and we were living on our last money. We went home... and the next day we ran out of pills... couldn't find ANYTHING.. for the first time in 4 years I felt the wrath of withdrawal, and I told my husband, lets got to the methadone clinic tomorrow. So we did. And a year and a half later we were taking 120+mg of methadone a day. I was getting two weeks worth of 90mg a day and taking it up in less than a week. I was told when I went to the methadone clinic, "Oh, it's ok... you can stay on this as long as you need to... the rest of your life if need be." Dang were we fooled. At my one year review I told the Dr. I wanted to get off, and she said she didn't think it was a good idea yet. I guess I'm a really stupid person (or I just didn't do my research, just didn't know crap) when I'm taking pills, but I decided one day when I got my two weeks take home that I would take it up then quit, and I wouldn't have a choice. So I did that. I came off of that much methadone cold turkey. WHOA. I made it 8 days, and I was back at my old doctor, begging to get on suboxone. Once again, I didn't do my research.... was told by this SAME doc from the beginning and all the way through... that there wouldn't be any withdrawals like it was a miracle drug. I'm not dissing suboxone so don't get that impression. We stayed on it about 2 1/2 months, and now we are 16 days clean from everything. So I'll put myself out there and answer any questions anyone has about the withdrawals or whatever I can help with. I don't want to bust anyone's bubble, but at day 16 I am only about 75 percent. But from what I've read, it truly does take about 25 days or so to reach close to 100 percent. Everyone's different... I was expecting this crazy jump from feeling horrible to feeling awesome like everyone talks about when they get off other opiates, but suboxone is obviously not like that. It gets better with time.... I do agree the worst is DEFINITELY over, and me & my husband actually stayed on pretty much the same page every day until about 3 days ago. He's actually been feeling a little better than me lately so I think after the "tough" part is over - everyone really starts to vary from everything I've read and our own experience. i take my hat off to Queenie though for making it through with no sleep medicine? WOW... we tried, we couldn't take it. I was SO suicidal and everything was just SO horrible when I went just one night with only 2 1/2 hours sleep which was split up during that night. COULD NOT sleep more than an hour at a time, it was unbearable. Don't get me wrong, even with sleeping pills sleep is questionable during these withdrawals, but man they helped so much. Anyway, just wanted to hop on here and thank Queenie. I do have my whole withdrawal ordeal wrote down in a journal.... will probably post somewhere when I feel better. We used someone else's withdrawal journal to make it through this whole ordeal... we read it everyday onine to see what we could expect that day... it really helped... www.suboxonetaper.com He felt 95% at Day 12... I don't agree with this... not for us anyway.... but everyone't different. Guess I've typed enough. THanks.

queenie 3 years ago

chickadee, thank you it was not easy and im glad you gained something from my daily online journal. As far as the sleep thing went, i took two weeks off from work and prob needed to take three. Im a vet when it comes to detox(stupid i know)so i knew what to expect.My job is pretty important(more for others than me)so i really couldnt work on no sleep. Sub is a long drawn out w/d but it is acheivable. Today im happy and healthy and sleep great. I continue to come back to this site b/c i like to see how others are doing that did this with me and to inspire others. Keep up the good work! At 16 days you are so close to feeling like the person you were made to be. Opiates are awesome and if they were free i'd prob be dead. But the reality is they suck you in and then turn on you and subsequently we make poor choices. In the last four years ive managed to put alot of my life back together and that was what compelled me to stop using again. Like you i lost alot over the years but im greatful for what i have and that i came out in 1 piece. i know so many who were'nt as fortunate. Keep us posted.

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

well yesterday i took my pm dose and felt fine all night. i got geezzz like at least 9 hours of sleep. i feel good now and usually when i wake up the first thing on my mind is sub sub sub...like those seagulls in finding nemo but subs instead of mine. and i have to ignore it and hold off so i can take my doses later on in the day so my tapering stays on track. but i really don't feel the need to take them right now. so today is day 4 @ .75mg and tomorrow i am suppose to go down to .50mg and i'm nervous i know this is only a small change but it really does make a difference. the first day is the hardest it seems well for me and it as they go on better which i thought would be the opposite. so i'll be taking my wee doses later and let ya know how i feel and all that. oh & this is the way to go man....anybody lookin' to come off subs...taper taper taper!!! no pain no problem min. w/d i mean min.

funtimes i posted last night b4 bed but it's not here...not sure what i did wrong but it had a movie list. i don't have time right this second so i'll be back in a wee bit and i'll hook ya up if you have a specific genre let me know...otherwise i'm just mix it up...oh fight club...can you say one of the best damn movies ever!!! talk about nihlism...tyler is the man...wooooooo! dude i love the parking lot scene where he's acting like bruce lee and right after norton tries shooting tyler...he's like your shooting at your imaginary friend or whatever but the kick and like yell soooo funny...that movie is great and the pixies were a perfect choice for the end!!! oh and marla...she reminds me of me her school of thought...but i'm instead i use my "dark side" to validate my addiction...ah alright explained it but fight club...book is even better! the fat used in the soap actually came from marla's mom she sent to marla to save for when marla need to make her lips fuller....and she stores at tylers and he uses to well ya know but in the movie he goes to the clinic to get the fat....selling the high and mighty their asses back!! got damn and chuck's other books don't even come close to fight club i've read i'm pretty sure all of them their okay some cool ideas but fight club....stands on it's own that is a great modern day classic that i would use if i taught an entry level philo. class. k well i'll get that list for ya. oh hey i can't believe that my body adjusted to the .75mg...i'm so psyched i still have a wee bit to go but i'm taking my time...i think my body's been through enough. and ya know what like my cycle is trying to get off as fast as i can and that i think is bad like all the suffering that's your body telling you something and since def. of insanity is repeating the same mistakes and expecting different results i thought i'd take it slow and allow my body to heal as i went and that would be a positive thing all around breaking the cycle my body is used to the high and lows i want it to be used to being calm/normal. what ya think?

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

funtimes...i have a literary question...k well i don't know if your a fan of Dexter...if you don't know what i'm talking about it's a showtime series..you'd enjoy it...i do immensely...well the dark passenger is mentioned and for some reason when i try to find the original poem only dexter and modern poems are brought up...i remember in high school choosing this poem for a class i had and well i feel like i'm loosing my mind maybe it was something similar but i'm pretty sure it was that...have you heard of this poem and who is the original author? or is it just a concept maybe from another work that i maybe pulled it from? idk please help....grrrr.

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

.75mg day 4 [tapering day 8]

.25mg am dose

well i just started to feel the chills so i took my .25mg dose. it's funny cause in my head it's like it just started try to fight it off as long as you can that's the way to get off them. but actually that goes against tapering and slowly allowing your body to adjust....it's weird but this is def. working. the only w/d i have felt thus far are really the chills when i was restabalizing i had all types of things going on but now since i'm taking my time it's like nothing...no anxiety or depression [well what is naturally there but no crazy w/d bs], no aches, no stomach pains or problems i eat well i do have an appetite..nothing really that intolerable...i'm starting to really think of my pasts experiances just ripping myself down & off and the torture of it all .... how bad is that for you? it can't be healthy

oh and there is alot of talk about the ill effects of MMT & subs....personally i think dr.'s are uneducated in this field...experience is key...they lack that...they only have what their research shows them....i feel yes opiates in general are pure evil however when i got on MMT then subs i was grateful i used them as a platform to build a healthy life and to fix my social maladaptive behaviors that i learned in my addiction. there is no quick fix...and coming off sucks but i feel subs afford us the opportunity to do it according to our body's pace, frame of mind, life style so in away you can look at as a bridge as well as the freedom to detox at your will...i don't think using in general leaves a person feeling complete but i say take the responibilty of detox into your hands don't leave in your dr's you know you best just be grateful the stepping stones that once weren't there are....just see subs for what they should be.

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

well i'm just taking a break from cleaning and nobody has posted other than me...so i sort of feel like i'm talking to myself...lol.....nothing new!!!

funtimes......here's the movie list

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Factory Girl

Killing Zoey

Chelsea Walls

I’m Not There

Snatch

Gonzo: The Life and Work of Hunter S. Thompson

Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

Across the Universe

Lost highway

Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind

Hotel Rwanda

The Usual Suspect

The Acid House

Deception

The Fountain

The Others

Blue Velvet

Lock Stock & Two Smokin’ Barrels

Smokin' Aces

The Midnight Meat Train

Righteous Kill

Mulholland Drive

Revolver

Wristcutters: A Love Story

Slipstream

Walled In

The Children of Huang Shi

Burn After Reading

The Poughkeepsie Tapes

The Hoax

Lars and the Real Girl

Kalifornia

Wonderland

Boy in the striped pajamas

Choked

k well it's a miss and match i liked alot of them and some not great but entertaining i recommend you look them up so you can see what their about. i gotta go

queenie 3 years ago

merchant, i dont think any of the w/d symtoms i spoke about happened until i actually stopped taking subs completely. i was only taking 1 mg a day for along time before i jumped off. Your doing great tapering and until your ready to do physical battle dont jump off cause chances are you will experience symptoms. Its amazing that such a tiny piece of that pill is so powerful. Someone said sub is 40x stronger than morphine. Do you know anything about that cause i have'nt reserched it. How bout we just agree not to talk about religion anymore and just focus on the issue at hand.? .....Truce?

withdrawl again... 3 years ago

Thank god for this site!! I have 27 days clean today from a raging IV heroin addiction and like a dummy tood Subs to detox at home and am now paying the price. I was on 8mg's 2x's a day and within 2 weeks went down to 2, I know not smart, but, I only had a few left and did not want to rely on Subs any longer. THANK GOD for that cause I am in Sub withdrawl hell! My last dose of a quarter of an 8mg pill was 4 days ago and I was clueless as to why the last 2 days I was feeling like I got hit with a Mack Truck!

I too have the sneezes, ZERO energy, restless legs, anxiety, the whole nine yards and I was only on the Subs for a few weeks!!! If anyone is reading this who is considering taking Subs, don't, unless you plan on this hell or being on them for the rest of your life. Now, I can say that the subs DID help with the h withdrawl, but, had I known that the detox from Subs would be so narly and LONG after reading all these posts, I would have said f it, I will take them for the 3 days of hard core withdrawl and then stopped.

I too work a program and attend meetings daily and I can say that the support from AA or NA is def one of the most important things you can do for your sobriety. You just don't realize the help and support you get from those cats. My suggestion, go to meetings, get a sponsor and get active, I know that sounds like the last thing to do if your on this site cause I find it difficult just getting in the shower, but, trust me, it's worth it!

I am miserable, but, I am not going back to the hell that once was of chasing that drug on a daily basis. We all can do this, just stay strong and it WILL get better, I have def learned that by reading each and every post on this site!!!

Fun Times 3 years ago

Queenie is super sexy everyone.....awwwwwwwwwwww yeah. and if you really look at her posts....she is the most thoughtful and helpful person on this site. yes...i am trying to embarass her....but yes...it's all true. i do remember benicio del toro (H addict) saying to the little girl in 'things lost in the fire'..."i like compliments". c'mon...who doesn't. i mean really...Queenie you really go out of your way to be helpful to people...and unlike myself...are always thoughtful and caring and you possess great judgment. maaannnnnnnnn....you're so cute.

it would be nice to have a fun (times????) atmosphere on this site where people could come on...and just have laugh. laugh about this or that or anything. if someone needs to get something off their chest that's serious...do it. we'll all try and offer support. c'mon troopers...for everyone out there feeling a bit chilly...for real...i live in chicago....it's fucking winter 8 months out of the year. i know it's your chilliness....but i keep thinking...fuck man...why i so fucking frozen (post Easter-swearing again...but committed to change) that i couldn't move for an hour and a half after my 83 minute night sleep. 100% honestly...by the time i got chilly...i was singing "Alayuiah!!!" and dancing a jig! ohhhhh boy. this means you're all doing waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better than me....so keep it up ladies and gents. kudos.

yeahhhhh...my genius buddy (best friend since age 6) had to correct me...karl marx said religion was the opium of the people...not fyodor d. that fuckers always right. lol. hey...at least he didn't know that freud snatched nietzche's chick. hahaha. not that smart.

listen to what this guy did. 100% true. unreal. i have to say for the sake of anyone who might be reading that i might just making this up. for his protection. i previously posted that i had friends shooting weight of raw H. he used the most. (i was cool...i just snffed it ;) )he had some deal with a guy that he would hold some (alot) of weight of raw H...and in return...get this: he could use at much as he wanted. period. so i get clean (off subs...i quit using H a lonnnnng time ago)...and he get's on subs to kick. i'm taking him to meetings...we're loving it. then he calls me today all scared (he's really shy). he tells me G-, i don't know quite how to say this, and i'm kinda nervous telling you...but i've been lying about something. i said...yeahhhh...i know...your back on H. he said no. I TOOK SUBOXONE FOR 7 DAYS AND QUIT...I'VE BEEN CLEAN FOR 21 DAYS OFF EVERYTHING.

are you fucking kidding me? mind you all...he get's into my car after NA meeting freezing his fucking ass off....i mean he was shaking...so he wasn't high...and the best i could get out of him was....'uhhhhmmm...can you please turn on the heat just a little".

FUCK! i know i said before 'if it ruff it aint me'. now i feel like a schoolgirl crying in the playground b/c someone grabbed my ponytail. i was like "dude...you just did the unfathomable...why were u nervous about telling me...that's awesome. get this: his answer: "well...i kinda new you were having a ruff time with your kick...and i didn't want to be like Sickboy from Trainspotting and 'upstage' you by how easy i kicked".

i don't know about everyone else...but when i hear someone with a habit like that (i am talking 3 full rigs at a crack...lined up to do at once...full of UNCUT(?) H at LEAST 3 times a day...kicking and not even telling me b/c he didn't want to hurt my feelings...I GET INSPIRED. If this fuckers not complaining...fuck me...i aint either. periooood.

hope that story was entertaining and inspiring to someone who read it. i kinda really did happen. he's kinda sitting next to me. that said...remember folks...not only is this not supposed to be fun...but try and have a laugh over this stuff. thanks merchant for the movie list. i feel for you merchant...you are a human being just trying to dissect alot of informatio scrambling around your head. personally...i don't give a shit what you say about religion...i'm not considering u an expert b/c of a theology minor and a misplaced belief in zeitgeist. yeahhhh...i play nice too. but really...i asked before if we could all get along. sexy Queenie asked that religion be takin off the table. and in my best judgment i humbly say....If Religion is helping people stay clean, and if God is helping them like He is helping me...fuck all that...God can stay...and keep the shit up about how God is the tooth fairy and i swear...you will be writing to yourself. you said Virgil is your inner strength, right? how the fuck do we know that he exists. i never seen him. i reading a post from a peson called mercahntofdeath and is that some kinda proof to me that virgil exists...or do i call him the tooth fairy? i'm gonna be cool and say...hey...if virgil is helping you stay clean...that is awesome. i not gonna knock this guy or your relationship with him. i encourage u to find a joyful life with him. extend the same courtesy to the rest of us human beings who have a relationship with God. alright. is that asking too fucking much. i know...u can see virgil and we can't see God. guess what I can't see God or virgil. it could be your dog for all i know. quit that shit already...just be cool merchant. i want u here and want u clean...and hope we can have really really cool discussions. just don't blindly say shit that is gonna hurt someone's chance of recovering. use your common sense...man. i really dig u merchant...and i dig everyone on this site. Let's fuck around...laugh as much as we can...support each other in every possible way...and everyone go home a winner. if my fucked up buddie just did without flinching (m*****fucker)...we can to. luv u all.

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

queenie...all is fair in love and war...no worries...and all though i'm kinda hardcore or whatever...believe it or not i wasn't offended by anything you said so it's all good...no truce even needed there was never a problem just a good ol' debate...plus i think it's good for people of my sort to know their not alone and they could get over this even if they don't believe in god ya know...and queenie can express your beliefs it's all good i want you to that's you ya know i really do accept people for who they are i love differences that's how you learn i am not at all about making you uncomfortable and if i did i'm sorry i wasn't more clear when expressing myself...i should work on clarifying my intentions but they weren't ill i promise you that...just close your eyes and pictures how often you here god mentioned in recovery now pic. those who can't relate...what guidance do they get from groups or rehab? they're sort of in no man's land ya know...and i feel like my voice can maybe open people's eyes to that....that's were alot of my passion comes from actually it's like there's no spiritual autonomy...seriously please don't feel like you can't talk about something so important to you i would be very upset and then may have to yell at you.. :) to thy self be true

and here's some info that you requested:(i love missions...thanks!!!)

The oripavine derivative etorphine is a representative of a particularly potent class of morphine analogues. Etorphine is approximately 1000 times as potent as morphine, and arguably is too potent to be released for human therapy. It is currently used as a tranquilizer for large animals. A newer, related analogues is buprenorphine, which is a potent mu agonist (0.3 mg = 10 mg morphine) that dissociates very slowly from the opiate receptor, giving it a longer duration of action. It also shows antagonist activity in the rat tail flick test. There is some question as to whether naloxone can reverse respiratory depression in patients who have overdosed on buprenorphine. It is used by injection for moderate to severe pain relief. In sublingual form, the products Suboxone® and Subutex® are used in the treatment of opiate addiction. Subutex contains only buprenorphine, and is used for the initial phase of treatment, followed by Suboxone®, which also contains naloxone.

the web site i pulled it from:

http://wiz2.pharm.wayne.edu/module/opioid.html

i don't know what your education background is but this is sort of intense in organic chem. & neuropharm. but hey either way i say scope it out.

another site which is just a pdf of published research on bup. on pain relief is :

http://www.cja-jca.org/cgi/reprint/24/2/186.pdf

if you scroll down their are charts and some written information on strength and some charts it does have some comparisons to morphine...however i think you'll get your best data if you pull a similar researh publication and compare and contrast the effects of dosing/time.

and here is an abstact from another study:

BACKGROUND: The aim of this study was to evaluate the analgesic effect of PCA buprenorphine (intravenous) on postoperative pain in gynecologic patients of Taiwan and the potency ratio of buprenorphine versus morphine, a commonly used potent analgesic. METHODS: Fifty women undergoing abdominal total hysterectomy under spinal anesthesia were enrolled into the investigation. Patients were randomly divided into 2 groups (n = 25 each). Group 1 received intravenous buprenorphine using PCA device for the management of postoperative pain, whereas Group 2 received PCA morphine for the same purpose. During the first 48 hours postoperatively, we collected the following data: demand and delivery of analgesics, pain scores, vital signs, nausea, vomiting and pruritus. RESULTS: Despite different treatments, we found that pain scores on day 1 and day 2 postoperatively were low and were not significantly different between groups. Also, times of demand for delivery of PCA medication were not significantly different between groups. The cumulative consumption of buprenorphine and morphine within 48 h were 1.5 +/- 0.6 mg and 36 +/- 7 mg, respectively. The potency ratio between buprenorphine and morphine was 24:1. Both treatments showed only minor side effects. CONCLUSIONS: We found that PCA buprenorphine (intravenous) could be effective in the treatment of postoperative pain in the gynecologic patients in Taiwan and the potency ratio of buprenorphine versus morphine appeared to be 24:1.

so i would say it's fair to say that the ratio of potency is apx. 30-20:1 and structurally it has a significant difference hence the insane 1000 times stronger quoted on the first site. and of course their are other variables to consider.

oh and i know i won't get off scott free but tapering makes a huge difference. one of my b/f did it and man i couldn't believe how easy she had it....i just never had the patience....but now it's weird i swear i can feel my body adjusting and i've done extensive research on it...it's healthier and has positive results the idea of subs they attach and distrubtion are ideal for tapering that's why they were approved in the beginning now for some reason their a maintance program but hey whatever keeps ya off the streets and manageable. but hey either way we'll find out soon enough.....i'm on .50 today and the day will be here soon enough.

withdrawal again: no need to kill yourself...you should taper...i mean do as you like but being on scheduled taper allows your brain to start compensating for the years of not needing to produce the neurotransmitters needed as you taper it replenishes so you'll not go through insane w/d. i've seen this done before and it works i just always wanted to be clean NOW and never tried it but i was only setting myself up for failure the w/d may even make you want a quick fix...be careful....sub w/d is long lasting but then again it could be done easily w/patience.if you scroll up you can find a site...drugs.com where they're really good at this....i don't go to a dr. plus this is on an individual basis. you have yet to feel the worse of it so i recommend staying strong and using all your support....i wish ya the best.

funtimes wow that's the point i don't care if god is here and i was rebuttalling after a while...i took it as an intellectual debate not a personal attack and fine i won't sell out my beliefs b/c you threaten to not talk to me that's a bs request. you can't see the offense??? i never directly attacked anybody i'm pretty sure i was like thats for you cool however this is how i feel....and me saying what i believe isn't okay b/c it offends you....well i guess it's only allowed to be one way i can't take offense to what i think is bs and has caused more death than anything??? sorry that's a no go...look i'm not even bothered now ostericize me fine...i sort of feel like you just shown the bigot in you and that's not very attractive....we are here for addiction and their are so many atheist that feel alone b/c of the major influence of god in recovery...i know i hated rehab for that very point i wanted something i could relate to i was knocking them but i felt dismissed...i'm very spiritual and have alot of positive beliefs as do many of my sort and i will not be oppressed b/c of my differences and i hope anybody else that sees this and is on the same page can find solace their not alone it's okay not to be the majority and they're a good person that can get clean and not forsake their beliefs...and i never intended to hurt anybody's recovery it was meant as a discussion and why once again is this only one way??? try following the steps and be me...i have to be creative...try lookin for advice oh wait it usually goes back to god...hey i've adapted but will not be silenced and sorry if my beliefs bother you...i was simple expressing my opinion and as a matter of fact your bring it up again not me dude i haven't mentioned in the last few posts i was bor

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

bored with it...redundancy.i wasn't out of line in the least i always reassured whoever it wasn't even directed at anybody just the general belief that whatever gets them through the day just i feel this way...dude one of my best friends is a born again preacher....we go back and forth no judgements made...sorry funtimes but i think you've lost perspective...keep an open mind.

oh and come on virgil was an analogy...really...and dude he's a greek author...he did exsist...but i wasn't being literal...

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

not greek...meant to say roman....like dante....homer was his greek equivalent.

Virgil:

Better times perhaps await us who are now wretched.

Come what may, all bad fortune is to be conquered by endurance.

Each of us bears his own Hell.

It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.

Every man makes a god of his own desire.

this isthe quote i think that best sums up all of the conversations:

'The time has come,' the walrus said, 'to talk of many things: of shoes and ships - and sealing wax - of cabbages and kings.'

-l carroll

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

Day 18, and my shoulder and neck pain & reoccuring leg pain I have been experiencing the past 5 days is finally subsiding... I think, I hope. I don't know about any of you, but things definitely get worse for me at night. I never imagined Day 11 and 12 would be pretty good, and then I would drop back down into another vicious cycle, but I think it might be just about done. So there is light at the end of the tunnel.... who woulda thought. A guy that hosts this sub website I go to says he has had about a thousand emails, and out of those only 6 people actually tapered and got off subs. How crazy is that. I just can't get over how mislead I was by my doctor about methadone and suboxone. I can't wait until I'm 100% so I can call and tell her of the hell I've been through. I'm only 25, and she wanted me to stay on methadone the rest of my life. Then she told me I should stay on subs the rest of my life. Then she misled me to believe she had had people she was treating that had actually came off subs, and it wasn't hard at all. I talked to her a week after that, and she admitted..."Well, no, I don't actually have anyone that has stopped taking it...yet." We missed our appointment on the 7th of this month so I bet she thinks we're back on opiates. LOL. She didn't know a thing about how to taper... we brought our written down plan to her, and she didn't even really look at it. If we had stuck to that plan, we'd only be down to 1mg instead of 18 days clean. I gave my subs to my best friend (since 3rd grade), and the day I gave them to her I was trying to explain how she should take it to get off pills, and she wasn't even listening. They don't have much money so eventually she started taking the sub to feel good (I guess) - she abused it - was taking 12mg a day for about a week, and she ran out not last night but the night before. So yesterday was day 1 for her. Haven't talked to her today yet. She's one of those people that thinks she's fine, and she's not going to have any withdrawals. I told her she might not.... I dunno. Everyone is so different. SHe was only on it a week, but at a sorta high volume SO? I'm so worried about her... she has three kids, and NO ONE to help. I've been blessed with someone to watch my children the ENTIRE time, and couldn't have done it otherwise. I'm going to confess to her today, something I've been thinking about for a while now since I quit taking the subs.... I can not and will not risk my sobriety to be her friend. My kids and husband should come first, and they haven't in a long time & I can't be talking to someone who talks about pills 24/7. We've been friends almost 20 years. I can't believe I might have to cut the cord. I don't see her quitting unless there are no withdrawals. But she knows if she tries to take a full antagonist, she's not going to feel it for several days so she's screwed either way. Well hubbie's up... have lots to say about y'all's other comments so I will get back on here later.....

Dog 3 years ago

Well, this is the clearest my head has been in a long time. I have been off the oxys for about a week and getting stable on about 4 mgs of sub. Everytime my head gets clear, I really want to blow it off, when I start thinking about the time, energy, and MONEY I have wasted on this fvcken garbage. I WILL NEVER FORGIVE MYSELF FOR IT.

Then, knowing that once I feel better in another 2-3 weeks, I have to go through this sh1t all over again coming off the sub and will not sleep right for probably a whole year. Talk about nothing to look forward to. It is what it fvcken is, I guess.

Fun Times 3 years ago

good morning everyone. i had a thought. i remembered during the beginning of my kick...i was calling my buddy...and laughing my ass off about the kick. i really was. the funny part was me laughing at myself for being so stupid that i just kept kicking like every year. and never learned. i was laughing about what son of a gun (working on swearing) this kick was.

now...i wasn't laughing so much alone. so i firmly believe that a newly recovering addict by him or herself is in terrible company. i hope everyone has a friend that can relate to this situation and laugh at it and laugh at themselves. it takes the sting away...clears your head...and laughter produces good chemicals in your body. when my buddy came freezing cold in the car afte meetings....i couldn't stop laughing if i tried. which made him start laughing (the guys ruff). but laughter...like yawning is contagious. i know its not fun folks...but i would advise against letting self-pity envelope your mind and just try and have a good laugh as often as possible possible. when you feel depressed...please remember...love yourself. and love everyone else too.

and a final point. as for my kick...one thing i really noticed. it ebbed and it flowed. in the beginning (day 2) the pain/discomfort was really flowing. then it would like ebb for 20 minutes. by day 10 or so...an hour of bad times...then a tolerable hour. by day 90...no more pain...just lacking a little motivation. all is well.

I don't remember if I ever thanked Recovering Addict for starting up this site. Thanks so much. it has truly helped me a ton. it's one of the tools that is helping me save my life. the site and the good natured people on it. and my special friend. take care all.

ps.K- haven't heard from you in a minute. lemme know u are doing well.

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

I meant agonist

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

Hey guys... for some reason I get the feeling like I'm not fitting in here??!! (and I want to) Am I that boring? LOL... forgive me, I AM going through withdrawals, and I still don't feel clear in the head so if I ramble, I'm sorry. ANd if I'm not interesting, I apologize. I used to be the life of the party, what happened to me? SHIT... Dog: I feel your frustration about the subs being just SOMETHING ELSE you gotta get off of. BUT I tried stopping methadone which is suppose to last quite a while itself, and I only made it 8 days... I was either going to kill myself (literally) or go on subs. I'm glad I made the choice to go on subs. If you look on the net, there are SOOOO many different stories about suboxone. It ranges from no withdrawals to people committing suicide because of the withdrawals...... some people can taper and be fine, some people taper to nothing and still go through hell. It's just soooo crazy to me how different everyone is. No matter what though, I think the key is to taper as low as you can, prepare yourself, and take the plunge because otherwise you're gonna be on the shit the rest of your life or you'll exchange it for something else.... everyone says it, there is NO easy way out from opiate addiction for most people. Today is day 18, and I am doing ok.... you do have something to look forward to, and it might not even be that bad for you... you can't worry yourself to death about it. Heed everyone's advice about how to get through it. The right vitamins, gatorade, water, showers, sunlight, all that. Shop in advance. Embrace the days you do feel better and try not to worry if tomorrow is going to be bad again because I feel like I've been so up and down & now I realize I have to be grateful for the up days. You've gotta be ready to stop... everything. It does take will power, but if you're like me I just got so sick of everything.... it was just time. Do your research, but be weary of misinformation..... there's a lot of it out there.... don't listen to the people that say a year later they're still not sleeping right.... either something else is going on or they're one of the rare ones. If you dread it, it will be worse. Try to look forward and be happy you are getting sober when you do come off the subs. GOOD LUCK... I will answer any questions you have about the withdrawals.....

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

.50mg day 1 [tapering day 9...i think w/out double checking]

.25am dose

well i woke up at 645am and i've been feeling fine...i waited until 2pm to take my dose and still feel fine. slight chills hear and there but ever since i started getting up and moving about that's disapated. and for all the mixed opinions on what happens to you when you come off...well i'm trying to take a sample and see what the general consensus at least in regard to tapering cause we obviously know what to expect when cold turking it.but as far as i've been it seems with each day of the 4 day increments my body slowly adjusts to the new dose...i get chills and some restlessness nothing really that bad at all better than getting a cold in fact...sometimes my face gets runny or whatever when waiting to take my pm dose but by the 4th day it all gets less...so i'm really hoping that pattern sticks i'm pretty sure i can work with it...it'll take a while to be completely sub free but worth it i mean in i have like 4mg left man that should last at least 3 weeks...imagine that. some people said they were skipping like 3 days then taking .25mg ya know at the end of their schedule and forgot to take and just stayed clean b/c they didn't even really notice anything at all.....that's what i'm talking about...i guess we'll see i'll keep this going till i'm done...i love the day by day detox on here it's my fav. part of this hub.

Fun Times 3 years ago

Subfreechickadee!!!!!! Welcome!!!!!! Listen young lady...you are in like the top three or four of people (as far as days off subs) on this site! believe me...you are very welcome here. we got a couple rambling psychpaths (like me)...and we need to balance it out with some reasonably sane people like you. EVERYONE kicking this shit is very welcome here.

you have a greast mesage...many great points. SHOWER LIKE CRAZY. it helps. sunlight...yeah..can't wait until i get some of that in chicago...but i'm happy...through an act of God i kicked in the winter. something to look forward to. and you young lady have made it to the other side!!!!!!! 18 days with no subs...it's all funtimes from here!!! really. i was on them way top long...over 3.5 years...and i was using other stuff. so it took me a little while to feel cool. and i didn't taper with any judgment...i went from 8 to zeo pretty quick. your best point. imo...is "embrace the days you feel better and don't worry about the future (slight paraphrase)". Stay cool JUST FOR TODAY. anxiety is actually a split of two greek roots (which escape me)...one being "mind" and the other meaning "half". in other words...people aren't anxious about things in the past...they get anxious (nervous...worried) about the future. our minds are literally split in half...one part is in the present and the other is in the future. hence...anxiety may arise. live in the now. good girl. and yeahhhh...be motivated. focus on the positive. i don't know anyone else's situation here regarding this...but i'll speak for myself. i do not have another opiate kick in me. no way. if i screw this one up i may as well put a bullet in my head. i have not had one singular thought of using any illegal drugs since this whole thing kicked off three months ago...and not even a drug dream. i think being in recovery-NA meetings, w/ a sponsor (who is an ex-marine and tells me G-shut the fuck up already when i go on these rants) has provided really positive reinforcement. i aint picking up shit...and i hoping that nobody else here ever does again too. nice to meet you. take care.

K 3 years ago

Wow..i go away for the weekend and all hell breaks loose on this site! I'm sad i missed out on the "higher power" debate, although i'm pretty sure no one would want to hear what i have to say (well maybe merchant). I'm doing pretty well - Fun Times thanks for asking. I went to the taj mahal which is the first thing i've done drug free in years. every major trip or milestone in my life has had a little footnote... *i was using ____ when this happened. for the past two years its been oxys or h before work, going out with friends, visiting family, flying on a plane..anything and everything. it was the only way i could even possibly imagine enjoying or just tolerating anything. this was a big step...especially still detoxing and being weak and having all the w/d symptoms but i did it. and once i got through all of the initial stress and anxiety of having to function in public for an extended period of time with people that i work with (COMPLETELY FUCKING SOBER), i actually enjoyed myself and had a worthwhile experience.

I'm jealous of you Fun Times...no drug dreams or intense urges to use?? I can't go a night without waking up feeling this deep emptiness because all my dreams are surrounding drugs. I still smoke to calm my nerves and that really helps me sleep and limits the amount of dreaming i do, but whenever i do remember a dream, it has to do with using (real drugs not pot or hash) and in them i am always furious because i know that i should be using (but i do) and even worse, i dont get fucked up (i'm guessing because it is a dream). I do the stuff and then wait....and nothing happens. and i wake up frustrated and feeling like i did actually use but without any of the fun stuff. I still have that lingering guilt that hangs over my head for the rest of the day, because in every dream i give in. and i know i shouldn't, but inevitably i always succumb to the temptation. in real life though i've been good..I don't search out this stuff. but if i were to ever stumble upon a bottle of oxy 80s or a bundle of heroin, i'm not sure what i would do or if i would be able to restrain myself.

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

Analgesic / Opioid Strength (Codeine) Equivalent Dose (30 mg codeine) Aspirin (non-opioid) 1/36 1080 mg Difusinal (NSAID, non-opioid) 1/16 480 mg Dextropropoxyphene[1] 1/4 120 mg Codeine 1 30 mg Tramadol 1 30 mg Anileridine[2] 2.5 12 mg Pethidine 3.6 8.3 mg Hydrocodone 6 5 mg Morphine 10 3 mg Oxycodone 15-20 1.5-2 mg Morphine IV/IM 40 0.75 mg Hydromorphone[3] 50 0.6 mg Oxymorphone 70 0.4 mg Levorphanol[4] 80 0.26 mg Buprenorphine[5] 400 0.075 mg Fentanyl 500-1000 0.03-0.06 mg Carfentanyl 1,000,000

30 pg (Used only in sedating large animals)

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

Opioid Conversion Table Opioid Strength (Codeine) Equivalent Dose (30 mg codeine) Strength (Morphine) Equivalent Dose (10 mg morphine mg) Aspirin 1/36 1080 mg 1/360 3600 mg Difusinal 1/16 480 mg 1/160 1600 mg Dextropropoxyphene 1/4 120 mg 1/40 400 mg Codeine 1 30 mg 1/10 100 mg Tramadol 1 30 mg 1/10 100 mg Anileridine 2.5 12 mg 1/4 40 mg Demerol 3.6 8.3 mg .36 27.8 mg Hydrocodone 6 5 mg .6 16.67 mg Morphine 10 3 mg 1 10 mg Oxycodone 15-20 1.5-2 mg 1.5-2 4.5-6 mg Morphine IV/IM 40 .75 mg 4 2.5 mg Hydromorphone 50 .6 mg 5 2 mg Oxymorphone 70 0.4 mg 7 1.4 mg Levorphanol 80 0.26 mg 8 .8 mg Buprenophine 400 0.075 mg 40 .25 mg Fentanyl 500-1000 0.03-0.06 mg 50-100 0.1-0.2 mg Carfentanyl*** 1,000,000 30 pcg 100,000 100 pcg

queenie these are opiates in ratio w/ 30 mg of codeine & 10 mg of morphine.... thought it might be useful to ya...the first post was confusing so i am trying to fix it

cdizz 3 years ago

So for me it has been 45 days clean off subs. I will say that suboxonetaper.com gives a very good representation of what to expect from days 1-25. My issue now is how have people felt from day 25 on? Like I stated it is now day 45 for me yet I have lingering issues. My mind still feels like its clouded and my anxiety level is very high. The best way I can describe this is that I feel constantly dizzy and cannot concentrate very well and its just an overall feeling of being uncomfortable and dizzy. My stomach is also pretty messed up still and I get heartburn quite often. I feel as if im backsliding but I do not have any cravings for opiates by the way. The hell of opiate addiction has been so bad that turning back is NOT an option. I am just curious to know if anyone has had this similar problem after day 25+ and when it began to subside for them if you had these long lasting side effects. I am aware of PAWS (Post Acute Withdrawl Syndrome) and think this may be the culprit.

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

cdizz...here's a website about PAWS and what to do...

http://digital-dharma.net/addiction/post-acute-wit

http://www.medhelp.org/tags/show/30016/Post-Acute-

Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome (PAWS) is a set of impairments that occur immediately after withdrawal from alcohol or other substances. The condition lasts from six to eighteen months after the last use and is marked by a fluctuating but incrementally improving course. PAWS/Rebound-Many substances can cause rebound effects (significant return of the original symptom in absence of the original cause) when discontinued, regardless of their tendency to cause other withdrawal symptoms.. Occasionally light users of opiates that would otherwise not experience much in the way of withdrawals will notice some rebound depression as well. Extended use of drugs that increase the amount of serotonin or other neurotransmitters in the brain (opioids including buprenorphine) can cause some receptors to 'turn off' temporarily or become desensitized, so, when the amount of the neurotransmitter available in the synapse returns to an otherwise normal state after wd's, there are still fewer receptors to attach to, causing feelings of depression/fatigue until the brain re-adjusts (Receptors turn on again). Buprenorphine PAWS/rebound seem to differ a bit from the typical/textbook definition of PAWS. The lingering effects from bup/sub seem to be more of fatigue, lack of motivation, or lack of energy that slowly restores over the course of months. Sometimes you feel ok, and a week later you will feel crappy again. Its VERY frustrating and unpredictable, and its almost impossible to gauge improvement on a day to day basis, some entire weeks/months are better than others. One thing that does appear to hold some validity, the longer you were on sub, the longer the PAWS will last. I would not state that you are feeling depression initially. However, feeling exausted, fatigued, and lazy for months is certainly a cause for depression all on its own.

There are many supplements you can take to increase neurotransmitter production, but without many active or desensitized receptor sites there is no way to produce the proper balance of endorphins (dopamine, norepinephrine, and epinephrine) naturally to get absorbed by enough receptors to feel good. Time seems to be the best way to combat PAWS, and that is the most frustrating part of the whole ordeal.

cdizz 3 years ago

Thanks merchant. All very imformative. As far as supplements go I take 5HTP herbal supplement which is a mood enhancer and seems to help. My despression is not very bad but I also take prozac. The fatigue and general dizziness is the most annoying and it makes doing things like school/work very difficult. I was on suboxone this time for a good 8 straight months before I came off it and I also came off it while on about 2mg a day so for those who are wonderin if you can come off suboxone while still taking a moderate amount a day after a long period of using it. You can. Just be aware that because I did not do the tapering as many recommend, it has quite possibly caused a prolonged withdrawl period for me although the worst period of W/d lasted only the first 2 weeks.

Sadly I made the huge mistake of going back on suboxone after coming off it before. The first time I was on it for around 2 months when my doctor lost his license and I was shit outta luck and had to come off it. I really dont recall much W/D if any the first time except despression and I felt great after about 2 weeks but I still worried about relapsing back onto OC so a few months later I restarted using suboxone and 8 months later I realized I couldnt be on it forever. This time around however I was hit full force with the withdrawls and wishing I had never gone back on it. Of course hindsight is 20/20 and there was no way to know this without actually going through it and hopefully I will have gained a bit more wisdom and humility which will keep me from ever going back down the same ruinous path of opiate addiction.

Fun Times 3 years ago

K-i am so proud of you. really proud. look at you-the taj mahal...man....and you're jealous of me. that's sweet. the dreams really sucked back in the day. there was a simple formula...i had a dream about using...i woke up....and used as fast as i could. i mean i hit the ground flying for dope after a dream.

this time was different.if i had the idea of picking up anything for 1 second or less, the most fleeting thought of using even the most miniscule part of a pill...or anything i actually developed like a violent flinch in my face. i got angry for that .5 second thought, and reacted viscerally. really...i'm through. just get really committed K-. pain is an awesome motivator. i hope and pray you never need it like i did. K-i swear...i swear on my father's soul...it only gets worse. i implore you to believe me. please. u have such a wondeful life ahead.

always remember...dreams are just that....dreams. nothing more. somebody once told me something interesting...an emotion is merely a thought that we place too much importance on. i found that to be really profound. it's just a thought...that we place too much importance on. when the dreams come...don't let them take up space in your mind...they aren't that important...and soon...you won't have the ruff emotional reaction to them. just dreams. just thoughts. nothing more. they're not actions. you are safe...and cool.

yeahhh...it got a little fun after you left. it's better now that your back.

as far as paws goes...as for someone going through over 90 days without subs...after using subs well over 3 years...the information seemed incredibly accurate. honestly. lack of motivation is tough...thats why i go to meetings and work very hard...and stay busy. and honestly...if i am lazy and lounging at my house after working all day and hitting a meeting...i am cool with that. i am clinically hyperactive...yeah...big suprise there hummmn. but i have learned to focus that extra energy well. i could cram a semester's worth of intellectual propery law into one night. i'm weaker than usual...which the world is grateful for. yeahhhhup.

cdizz...i'm not really sure where your symptoms are coming from. i don't think you should be feeling dizzy or have that acidic stomach thing after 45 days. maybe something else is going on with you...and a doctor could tell you. congratulations though. i'm like you now...after this many days clean after this many years...using opiates again just could never happen. it hurt me. too many times. it hurt too much. hey...it aint like day 2...right? good luck man...stay tight.

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

.50mg day 1

.25mg pm

i'm soooooooooooo tired. um yeah okay i took my dose at like 8ish....i had a wee bit of chills and the fake allergy thing going on but not really bad at all. i have been tired all damn day though but i don't think it's w/d i think it's b/c i was laid up since st. paddy's due to some fractured ribs and ankle w/contusion....so lately i've been up and doing things...well around the house...i did walk like 3 miles over the weekend...it was to make a point and i was drinking other wise i wouldn't have. i do think the activity helps alot...but today i just sort of looked up cognitive stuff for the wee one...ya know grouping/matching/sorting/math/letters...voltaire ya know basic pre school things...lol. oh and we kicked ass in socom earlier...anyways ya really tired all day but as far as the sub thing i seem to be okay...oh wait i was a little anxious earlier but it's hard b/c i'm fighting w/ the b/f and that's a variable and taints the whole thing so i don't know maybe a wee bit of both....however my cousin is in recovery well like 6 or 7 months clean she works at a home for preg. women on methadone...she said i sounded wound up...but she thinks it's enviromental not so much biochemical or more like i'm getting like overwhelmed and my mind is like on low so i'm more anxious about dumb stuff that normally i would blow off....whatever either way i'm good...adieu

The truths of religion are never so well understood as by those who have lost the power of reasoning.

sorry i mentioned voltaire...couldn't resist...

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

cdizz...you might want to do some extensive research on degenerative paws...there are three forms....the link i gave ya explains it....i think learning how to manage it should be a priority...which it probably is. going to see a doc isn't a bad idea at all actually...other than just an all around check up is good after all you've been through...the doc maybe able to help ya out with your symptoms...dizzyness often occurs from the lack of sugar b/c of all the abuse we put our bodies through it takes a while to get everything up to par...i strongly urge you to look at your diet...sort of like a car with oil/octane...eat well complex sugars and proteins. and i'm just guessing the uncomfortableness is due to anxiety which can in turn make you hyperventalate w/out being aware tensing your body up which will cause an uneasy feeling physically and mentally...i mean quiet time through out the day is vital for me i need to re ground myself so much more right now until i'm well i suggest looking into whatever makes you tranquil and pursueing it with passion however if your like going insane and need like meds do what ya got a do but temp. ask about trazadone for like a week or something you take it at night it's a really light sleep med w/anti depressants in it which in turn will calm you down....depends you can gauge for yourself....i think it's a good habit for you to start learning how to naturally chill so you can incorp. that into your new life however i would never knock ya for going the other way either....sorry to ramble...i do it often but i'm sleepy and thought about how any response got me through the hour or day and felt like a jerk for not offering to you what may [or may not] be of use to you....well good luck & i check in throughout the day if you need somebody

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

Thanks Funtimes, I appreciate it. Got a question... I know Queenie started sleeping better at 6 weeks... what about everyone else? I still can't sleep for more than 2-3 hours at a time even with taking Ambien or Lunesta throughout the night. Day 19... been almost 3 weeks now. I am so jealous of my hubbie.... he can take a half an Ambien and sleep all night pretty much. Is it messing me up going back and forth between Lunesta and Ambien? I had no choice though cuz I couldn't get the Ambien filled yet so I had to take Lunesta for two nights, and now I've been back on Ambien for two nights, and I haven't slept well at all those two. I also started taking 5 HTP and some other vitamins and stuff two days ago as well.... surely these aren't keeping me up?! It's been light sleep & short. Freaking sucks. MAN - I don't even wanna think about PAWS!!! NO!!! Oh I dread that shit, and I really hope you come out of it cdizz. I was only on subs 2 1/2 months.... taking other opiates all day every day heavy for the 5 or so years prior.... but damn I hope these withdrawals don't last as long or longer than I was even on the freaking subs. Am I the only one on here with kids? Small children anyway? My husband's parents have been taking care of them this whole time. I guess I consider myself really lucky to not have to worry about going to work or taking care of kids right now... I have time to heal. As much time as I need. My husband is over here snoring - DAMN HIM LOL... and I've been up bascially since 4am or something. We stayed on the same page with the withdrawals (mine might have been a little more intense) for the first 12 days... it was crazy... if one had a good day, we both did and so on... then day 13 hit, and I've had so much pain and anxiety and all kinds of shit, and he's been pretty ok just no energy and stuff. AH!!! I'm happy for him, and I love him to death, BUT it freaking sucks for me. I couldn't of made it through this without him though. NO WAY. That's why I hate mornings like this where he sleeps and sleeps, and I'm up by myself. Need to call and check on my best friend... today is day 3 of no subs for her... she was ok last night... I dunno... she wasn't taking it right... taking like 12 mg throughout the whole day, but it was only about a week so I guess we'll see what happens. She doesn't think she's going to have ANY withdrawals at all. We'll see. Later guys.

Fun Times 3 years ago

subfreechickadee...c'mon...you are the one inspiring folks not to dread what may happen tommorrow. i may get into a fatal accident when i go on lunch break (hopefully not too many people on or off this site are pulling for that one..lol)...i'll take this thing five minutes at a time when a day at a time seems long.

as for the paws...i was thinking of a couple song lyrics which reflect my 'paws' after 90 plus days (getting near 100)...

bullshit 80's song:

"she's blinding me with science....ooooh...ooooh...oooooh"

i hate that pop bullshit...some people dig it.

my kinda tune...slightly paraphrased...by Great Britaian's Hardcore

"well i just got back from vietnaaaaaaaaaaam, where i burned a town with napalllllllllllllm, the next minute it was't there, i was getting high too much to care....now i get i off on my purple heart...and i can stop you if you start...coming back now and the loose...got to get rid of those vietnameeeese blues"

its gonna be cool subfree and cdizz. give it a little time. don't fret over how bad it's supposed to be...the input gained from which data was compiled is from a control group that i don't know personally. sure...you'll be weak. sure...you'll lack motivation. tell you what though...it beats fighting that war in vietnam.

i'm glad a made a special friend on this site. i hope everyone can get as much as they can out of it. i'll be honest...guys...i can more or give a fuck about guys conplaining...just be men. cdizz..i don't mean you though...you have made it clean a month and a half and have some symptoms that i didn't. look into it. i think you're cool as hell.

i do care about the youg ladies though. who knows why. i want K-, dustybug, merchant, and subfreechikadee to do well...that's my natute. i think men are maybe a little less emotioal than ladies and should always help a damsel in distress...maybe it's chauvinist...maybe chilvarous...maybe it's just me. Queenie...you gotta know a dig you. thanks for being there for me. take care all.

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

subfreechickadee....well i wouldnt' worry too much about PAWS cause you were only on subs for 2.5 months ya know. PAWS has a direct correlation with the duration of your sub use. also there are 3 types of PAWS there are links above i posted for cdizz you can scope out but here are a quick summary:

Post-acute withdrawal symptoms are not the same in everyone. They vary in how severe they are, how often they occur, and how long they last. Some people experience certain symptoms; some people have other symptoms; some people have none at all. Over a period of time PAW may get better, it may get worse it may stay the same, or it may come and go. If it gets better with time we call it regenerative. If it gets worse we call it degenerative. If it stays the same we call it stable. And if it comes and goes we call it intermittent. Regenerative PAW gradually improves over time. The longer a person is sober the less severe the symptoms become. It is easier for people with regenerative PAW to recover because the brain rapidly returns to normal. Degenerative PAW is the opposite. The symptoms get worse the longer a person is sober. This may happen even when a person is going to AA/NA and/or following some type of recovery program. People with degenerative PAW tend to become relapse prone. Sobriety becomes so painful that they feel they must self-medicate the pain with alcohol or drugs, collapse physically or emotionally, or commit suicide to end the pain. A person with stable PAW experiences the same level of symptoms for a long period of time into recovery. There may be days when the symptoms are a little better or a little worse, but essentially the symptoms remain unchanged. Most recovering people find this very frustrating because they believe that they should be feeling better the longer they are sober. With sufficient sober time many people learn to manage these symptoms.

I plan on just simple observing my symptoms, researching whichever one i may fall into, & eating right as well as having a solid schedule. However i've had paws with dope before and i remember it wasn't that bad i was okay...guess i was lucky hopefully this time will be the same ya know. as for as not sleeping i find any type of exersize crazy beneficial and no naps throughout the day def. helps kava kava and melatonin are good as well and you should be able to take them w/what your taking now but i recommend cross referencing just to be safe.oh and woman in general have higher anxiety than men hence the difference...warm milk & turkey are naturally diet sedatives try that during "wind down time" also do not taking anything throughout the day that may be stimulating like coffee or anything with caffeine stay away from sweets or fruits ya know simple sugars b4 bed. i've battled insomenia since i was really younger and found that alot of this does help but often it takes getting into the routine to show a difference. but you should see a little bit of an improvement in your sleep every night...oh and bendryl always was the best sleep med for me but no more than 50mg b/c it could have inverse effects after that.oh if you smoke cut back as the day progresses that's a stimulant.

as far as kids i have a daughter 4 she's with us 4days a week til school starts for her. she's easy though & she actually helps me out when i may need it like [not recently but the last few months i kept trying to just come off subs...what a nightmare] she's very bright and independent as well as understanding...she is clueless obviously to everything but i'll tell her i have a cold or virus. but either way she's inspiring and helps out w/anxiety and depression plus when i feel like fading into the couch or bed for the day i have to get up and move w/her and that may suck at the time but at night i'm grateful for the activity.i also have a [usually] awesome boyfriend who she adores and they do things together to strengthing their bond...like she'll go on little off roading adventures w/him and they collect pine cones and rocks...they go bug catching...she'll help him in the garage w/his truck or playing w/his rc cars...she also has a dad that's active in her life and she goes there every weekend and i did need a few days off once and he has his own buisness so he has no problem adjusting his hours and he is always helpful that way. but right now it's imperative regardless how i feel that i'm w/her b/c i have this whole education plan for her before kindergarden and i want her to complete it and since she's only child she needs to work a wee bit on her "social graces" not that she's bad she's just oblivious to other kids sometimes and likes adults.plus next year i won't be in the reserves anymore i'll be active in the army and i need her to understand why i'll be gone a few months so bonding is really important right now...i can't worry about my ailments getting in the way. hence another reason i chose to taper slowly i have so much going on that i just can't crash and burn right now just ripping off it.i did take the semester off though which lightens the load tremendously but that's okay life's not a race and my b/f has only 6 credits to go. how old are your kids? it's awesome you have support that's so important! you sound okay for where your at it's more like your just going through the motions...hang in there...it's worth it...if you've come this far i'm pretty sure your uphill battle is pretty muchover and you should be at a plateau soon. good luck!

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

well incase nobody notice i've yet to post my dosing thing....reason being i didn't take any subs today. last night my wisdom teeth were f'n killin' me and i barely got sleep....it was horrible so i tried motrin 800...tramadol 50mg..all to no avail. so i then took aprx. 1mg of sub which worked. this is a reoccuring problem for me when i detox it sucks i don't have the cash to get them removed yet...soon i will...so i spoke to my scheduling "sponsor" and they said to chill on .50mg for a while so my body gets acclaimated....so that's what i'm doing i've been sticking w/motrin and my pain is def. better so since i don't want to screw up all that i've done i'm gonna go back to my normal dosing schedule tomorrow. i don't have any w/d symptoms but i am tired and my routine for the day has been disrupted which sucks i napped and i really shouldn't do that but i think i'll be okay. we'll see what's goin' on tomorrow w/my body...so i'm going to stabalize on .50mg then start to go down and prob. stabalize again on .25mg for a minute...it's a process but so far i'm happy it's worth it.if my wisdom teeth weren't a problem i think i would have been fine i started my taper yesterday to .50mg and last night no w/d so whatever....where there's a while there's a way...

i dld an awesome version of monsters vs alien cam and the burrowers for later when the wee one is asleep. oh she's funny she has figured out how to "rig" her tic tac toe game...i hear her in my bedroom w/the b/f telling him he can put his little bunny peg in that hole or she won't win...she was doin' that to me all afternoon the little bugger thinks she's clever..lol...it's hard tryin' to explain it's about playin and havin fun it's not about always winning...she's 4 so yeah it's all about the win.

queenie 3 years ago

Hi guys, i just got off work and im very tired. two back to back 12 hour shifts.(cash moves everything around me cream get the money dolladolla bill y'all! anyone old enough to remember that song?) Anyway, just wanted to check in.subfreechickadee, i was on subs maybe 6 weeks to come off oxy's and have no paws so maybe you wont either and sleep will come be patient.I do know paws to be a very real thing though that can last like 18 months. Oh and fun times i would like to add a movie to Merchant's list- Gorrillas in the mist! take care y'all im going to take a long nap my friends.

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

wu tang clan first ep 1995 c.r.e.a.m.

not while ...but will where there's a will there is a way...i'm like a reckless typer

queenie 3 years ago

thats weird, i posted something earlier and now its gone. anyhow, subfreechickadee,i was olny on subs like 6 weeks to come off oxy's and did not experience paws so maybe you wont either. I do know paws to be a really real thing though that last like 18 months for some folks. I just finished two back to back 12 hour shifts and found i once again have the stamina needed to pull that off. as far as sleep goes ,it will come. your body must reset to homeostasis which takes alittle time. Congratulations on making this far and it gets better and better from this point on. I suggest you go out and about and physically exert yourself to induce sleep. I forced myself to leave the house everyday after bout 10 days and i found that to be helpful. Fun Times, i would like to add a movie to Merchant's movie list...Gorrillas in the mist! Merchant and K, keep strong and i send peace from the heart of the Queen. Love Queenie

queenie 3 years ago

WTF! now after i posted this last one it was there and Merchants comment. Huh, maybe i bookmarked it or something (me was tired then) Oh well, sorry

Fun Times 3 years ago

well...i have to admit...as i did before when merchant posted the symtoms of paws (as i said then...its incredibly accurate) that i have a certain view about things (everyone has a certain view...b/c it is just that...it's their view)...which kinda goes like this:

i really try and avoid hearing things and thinking of things which are negative. even when the stuff is true...like paws. im off subs over three months. its very real...but i am focusing hard on being positive. i consider people's tapering experiences and advice to be great...b/c i wanted instant gratification when I was kicking..i wanted to be done with subs and everything NOW. and i used poor judgment. going from 8 tom zero was just stupid and impulsive. so i think people who are posting their infinetly smarter schedules are doing a great service to other people who are trying to figure out how to get off subs.

merchant...we've had some differences...but i am extremely proud of you. i cannot fanthom the anxiety and stress i would be feeling knowing that i was gonna be in the army. you really inspired me with how u are handling such a stessful situation. and i thank u for that. i said a prayer lst nite for everyone and i said a special prayer for you...that you be safe. i don't know where you are going...but i pray that you are safe.

thanks for the movie Queenie. i need to thank you so much for your support. it meant and means so much to me. you are an angel of mercy to me right now. i gotta fly...but everyone...stay hard...stay cool..BE GOOD...and i wish everyone a beautiful day,

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

Ok, ok, ok.... I know, stay positive... I'll get through... I'm sorry guys, I've just been having a shitty WEEK... I feel worse today than I did yesterday, and I acutally got sleep last night kinda after two nights of hardly any so I don't know what's up with me.... I guess I just got discouraged because I still have pretty rough withdrawals, especially at night... my neck and shoulders HAVE improved THANK GOD, but my legs hurt ALL DAY every day so they kinda took the place of that - I think my problem is every time I think I feel better, I get worse so it just trips me out. Also since me and my husband lost our house and everything, we've been living with his parents (even though we have a house right down the road that we started remodeling & never finished of course) Anyway, and their house is two story - it's built into the side of a hill so from the front, you can only see the first floor - the top floor - and we live in the bottom floor which is like half basement - am I making sense? If you look at the back of the house you can see both stories & there's two porches, but anyway point being we just about live in a freaking basement. We've watched just about every freaking movie there is... our TIVO has never been this empty as well, we even watched the new XMEN movie which doesn't come out til June or something, right? LOL... We have an xbox 360, a Nintendo DS, a Wii, and a shit load of games, but STILL don't feel like playing them. I'm just ranting my frustrations, OK? I can't even hardly watch TV anyway because my anxiety is so horrible STILL. So I'm just frustrated. I almost wish I had a job to go to. We made ourselves walk over a mile yesterday, and YES that did feel good after we MADE ourselves do it. We smoke like a pack or more a day though so we were pretty winded. Quitting smoking is next of course. We live 5 minutes from a lake so we drove all down through there yesterday, looking, listening to music.... that was nice. My advice is just like Queenie's.... once you get through the rough ass stuff, YOU HAVE to get out of the house daily if possible. My husband quit his job to get off the subs, didn't have a choice. I am in awe of anyone that can work like this. Y'all are all so awesome. I'm so glad my hubbie found this site. He reads it with me everyday too. I'll tell you what people need to avoid (having unrealistic expectations).... look at MOST people that get off subs.... the norm to feel better is usually a month to six weeks, and it sounds like it can be up and down, and you have to mentally prepare yourself for that. I think that's my main problem - most people claim about every two days they feel better and better once they hit a certain point - and it's like, parts of me do feel better, but then other shit takes it's place & I'm just TIRED of being in strong pain. I've been through two child births with the epidural not working, two kidney stones (which hurt WORSE than child birth), and I've been through cervical surgery which involved sticking the hugest needle ever into me down there & having a lot of it removed while I was awake, but NONE of this lasted 20 plus days.... you know???? I'm just so wore down from it all. I got my kids to get back to.... I got my house to get back to.... I have my life to get back to.... but in the midst of bitching about all this, I REALIZED SOMETHING.... I will ACTUALLY BE LIVING my life now once it's back.... and IT IS coming back... and THERE IS something to look forward to... no pill chase, no feeling horrible when you don't have something... financial freedom again.... a REAL LIFE, WORTH LIVING... which is WORTH all the suffering... Point being - everyone's going to feel horrible going through this... everyone's going to feel despair at one time or another during this... and it's good to talk about it... Look at Queenie's story, you can watch it unfold... you can read each entry and see the improvement... that's why it's good to let it all out... so on day 20, sitting here THINKING I'm feeling bad, I can go back and look at my hand writtten journal I've been keeping and realize that I do feel way better than I did a week ago, and I am making progress, and there is something to look forward to. Just the lingering effects wear you down since it seems like it's been FOREVER since I took any subs... seems like I've been FOREVER suffering.... but compared to week one, it's nothing. So no one should take to heart the negative stuff people have written (including me)... we bitch because we can, and it's all part of the process. Feels good to.... I have mixed feelings because I do agree if I had actually known how long it would take to get back to totally "normal" (still can't remember what that is, but I"m closer than ever), I also don't know if I would of had the guts to quit, but I also believe you should know what you're getting yourself into so you can be prepared mentally. I felt really good on day 11 and 12, and then day 13 it went all to hell, and I wasn't prepared, and I think it made it worse. We didn't research til that day how long it can and usually actually lasts.... so I just don't know. I guess you just have to be really, truly ready to quit, and not care what it takes. It helps to know what to expect. By the way my best friend gave in on night two without even feeling withdrawals yet, and she took some tramadol. She said she's not ready to quit. I gave her a way out with the subs, and she didn't take it. I'm so upset. Her husband doesn't even know how bad she's on pills. Thanks everyone for all the support and advice. You are all so wonderful. I hope I didn't just rant and rave on here, hope I had something useful to say..... I was typing so fast so I dunno....LOL... Got an 8 hour trip ahead of us tomorrow... kinda excited, kinda not. Gotta go......

queenie 3 years ago

Subfreechickadee, i used icy hot for my aches and found it helpful. I believe that is the end of w/d symptoms(it was for me anyway). That and lack of sleep. You should be really proud and no doubt it takes so much will power to do this! You are a soldier for sure and your life will be rewarded! You and your man keep on keepn on.

queenie 3 years ago

hey guys, I know i've posted my entire miserable detox on here and much to some of your likings.Today however, im going to share alittle of how life has now turned around for me. I was off from work today and hung out with my best friend,her husband,and 3 year old kid. We had dinner at a mexican resturant,drank ice tea, and shared some laughs and memories. She commented on how much better i looked, that i had gained my weight back and seemed to be at peace again. About 40 min into our time at the resturant all hell broke lose as the 3 year old kept sliding under the table and stabbing our feet with a fork and then screaming when we tried to pull her up from under there. my friend stormed off saying that her man was staring at my chest which left everyone uncomfortable. by this time im looking at my ice tea and wishing i were in Long Island!To top it off i was left paying the entire bill as her man went after her and they duked it out in the parking lot and im left with this kid thats still stabbing my feet! I payed the bill and as i was leaving i shouted to the many eyes staring at me..." im not related to these people!" The car ride back to her place(where my car is) was silent i was angry that my night off was ruined by this extreme disfunction and uncomfortable set of circumstances i was trapped in at that point. When we got back to her place i went towards my car and she called out" where u going?" I looked at her and we just started laughing and then she said "welcome back kid"and i said "its good to be back". My point is im one disfunctional beotch even when im clean. .....and if im not my friends are. I wouldnt have it any other way. Who wants a boring life with boring people? Holla

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

Hey guys.... GOOD NEWS.... Today is day 22, and BOTH of us started turning the corner yesterday... small withdrawal symptoms left, but NOTHING to complain about.... So now I think it's safe to say (just like Queenie before) WE MADE IT!!!! Drastic improvement!! And for the first time since this whole ordeal started, I felt better AT NIGHT then during the day last night! WOW! So excited, so hopeful.... Was even cleaning last night.... Now I'm wondering, what is y'all's opinion on the Ambien... hubbie's taking one a night... I'm taking two (10mg) throughout the night.... should we wein (ween) whatever... ourselves off or what? Hubbie's been on it 3 weeks, and I've been on it a month... pharmecutical papers say only take one to two weeks.... we're still not sleeping right, and sometimes the Ambien doesn't even help past the first one anyway... think I'm going to try to take just one tonight when I go to bed.... I know I'll wake up, but I'm going to try to go back to sleep with more.... maybe take one a night for 3 more days or so then go down to a half for three days or something.... what do y'all think? Or do you think we should just stop taking it in a couple days or so or wait til we feel 100 percent to stop?? Definitely don't want to get addicted to this shit.... Queenie you're a nurse so thought you might know more about it than me.... Merchant, how you doing? Funtimes, keeping busy? Thanks for the story Queenie.... we got crazy friends too... ready to get back to 'em also.... TTYL

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

it's funny how you mention being dysfunctional cause i've been so crazy lately that i haven't even written here. i really don't know where to begin....well i guess i have come to realize that i don't have good coping skills when it comes to being angery or dealing with being hurt. i'm a pretty hardend person and it takes alot to get to me but when it does happen i act out in the most unhealthy ways. i am so good at handling stress and life's ups and downs however when i fight w/the b/f i spiral out of control. i went out for a bday party and ended coming home to talk ....bad idea...i was drunk....then was so mad went out and got high which i don't even like it's f*cked up it is more like a self destruct mechanism or like a rebel thing like f*ck off i'll show you....yeah show you how weak i am??? i haven't even done anything in like forever either b/c i honestly don't have the desire and still don't it was likejust a behavior thing. so the next day i got in touch w/an old friend in na she knows me well enough not to be all fanatic like and were hooking up this week i'm not really worried about the fact i did it more like the fact i was on auto pilot for self destruction....i need to fix that. i was just always indifferent to my b/f or friends i didn't get upset over really anything...however i've never been in love til now i grew up in a very emotionless just gotta survive home so now i have two people in my life i love and when they hurt me or whatever i don

't possess the skills to deal w/in a healthy way. i mean on 1 hand i'm happy i feel so intensely ya know i'm not numb anymore but i'm disappointed that i'm so at a lost that i chose self destruction...i've also come to the conclusion that drinking although i don't do it often is a very convenient means to acting out when angry and i think being the impulsive person i am i may just wanna not do it,,,,i'm happy this has happened b/c i've got some self enlightenment out of it but at the same time i feel like i am well was not a part of the solution. i take everything so seriously and i rarely don't have an answer to problems but there really aren't any answers to being hurt or whatever just lessons on how do deal with it the most healthy way i can. it's funny though cause my b/f isn't an addict and i see the way he deals with it and he just like dives into his stubborness and gets apathetic but nothing self destructive...huh and he's just as intense as me but he's learned i guess over time how to deal w/this where as i never did well i never had to. well we talked so all is well now but i really really need to start building a support network so i'm prepared for the next time...which is hard b/c i don't want to go to meetings i don't like to socialize i don't know itlike has to be one on one so i think calling my friend was a good idea and i could build from there and she can help out we met when we were kids in the rooms she stayed i left but we always stayed in touch.it's even weird to talk about this like out loud it goes against all my wee fibers and it's not that life is bad it's not i just need to stay the course and well i jumped off for a night so i need to take it for what it's worth and stay focused...i just trying to keep it in the perspective of do i want to contribute or hinder my/our life? so if anybody has any idea on how to deal w/this sort of thing in a healthy fashion let me know. b/c i obviously can't.

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

WOW girl... let it all out... it's always good to do that. I might be able to actually help you here -although I don't know if my and my husband have an actual normal relationship.... we met in May of 2002, and were married in November 2002 so we're coming up on our 7th anniversary.... and yes, we got married QUICK, but it was the BEST thing I've EVER done.... we're one of them couples that makes everyone sick... we hardly ever fight, and we're truly in love. And I'll tell you what KEEPS us this way.... COMMUNICATION. Let me just also tell you that even though I'm only 25 (26 in July), and my hubbie will be 30 in May... I had my first child when I was 17.... so I grew up QUICKLY. (Just some info - we both had a son when we met that are only 4 months apart so it was like twins!!! And in 03 we had a daughter together) Anyway, my son's father who died in a car wreck (rest his soul) in 07 - I don't want to speak ill of him, but it's just the truth - he was drunk and went around a curb at 103mph and flipped 6 times.... he was an alcoholic even though I didn't realize it back then, and he also MOVED to another state when he found out I was pregnant after being with me for a year and a half.... my husband's ex-wife actually packed up and moved to another state a couple of months before me and him met - the SAME state, same city how ironic is that.... ANYWAY, sorry, I keep getting off subject. The key, in my opinion, to a great relationship is to be able to tell each other ANYTHING - we are SO open and honest with each other, and I'm not in the dark here - we've only spent one night apart since we met, and we use to run our own business side by side day by day - we're always together, and don't get tired of each other.... point is though, if we do need some alone time, we can just say it.... if we're upset about something, we can and DO talk about it immediately.... without yelling, we discuss. I grew up in a VERY verbally abusive household... I, of course, was an out of control teen, could talk my parents into anything, but there was CONSTANT, CONSTANT yelling in my house. Yelling and no one listening. People tend to yell at each other at the same time.... trying to get THEIR point across instead of listening to the other side as well... not to get all retarded on ya, but Dr. Phil calls 'em "Right Fighters" Always gotta fight to be right. Well, no one's right all the time. If you start to yell or fight, seperate until you can talk rationally and calmly. If you truly LOVE each other, you can work through anything, and you have to accept each other's flaws.... I don't know exactly what y'all are fighting about, that's your business, but my guess is 9 times out of 10 in the scheme of things it's probably not even that important. You have to pick your fights with the boyfriend just like you do your child.... you can't argue over every little thing or you'll drive yourself crazy. Another thing is, I've noticed that some couples... especially the guy... will not open up because he knows how his girlfriend is going to react, and he doesn't want to deal with it. Key is to talk about this very thing... not react so strongly (don't even know if you're doing this, just saying) to something he comments on or wants to talk about.... even if it hurts, even if it upsets you, even if it pisses you off.... don't go psycho about it.... talk and work it out.... my hubbie could tell me he wants to have a threesome, and we would discuss it. I'd rather know why and deal with that then freak out on him, and him wish he'd never told me.... Some people aren't like me, some people would rather not know... that's not me. Be real, ya know? Really dig into what's triggering these fights.... are you actually fighting about some key issue constantly or are you fighting about stupid little shit a lot? Some people tend to pick fights if there's something bothering them, and the fights won't even be about that. They're just pissed off about something. Sounds like y'all had a heart to heart though already, and you should do that often. The way I see it, if I'm going to spend the rest of my life with this person, we better be able to tell each other anything... like if we're getting on each other's nerves... without either of us getting pissed off about it because it's going to happen.... Anyway, how to deal when you do get stressed without turning to drugs?? Sounds like you're on the right track.... take some time to yourself, call a friend, find something productive to do that you enjoy.... have sex.... punch a pillow.... you're talking to people who have been medicating themselves with drugs for years also.... hate to say, but if you really don't want to drink or smoke than sounds like you need to not associate with whoever you're doing it with. Sucks to do it alone. Are you doing it to get at your boyfriend?? I drank about 3 or 4 times a week for a year and a half then I smoked weed all day, every day for another year and a half while also drinking occasionally then met hubbie and got on pills for all these years.... and I'm not even that old.... and that lifestyle just sucks all the way around... Are you depressed often? Suboxone makes you numb... worse than other pills.... I also took depression medicine for years, and have battled with depression since I was young... cut my wrists and legs when I was 13... my brother is bipolar... my dad and his mother battle with depression... I was also raped shortly after I had my first son... I still had stitches down there, and that was the worst pain when that happened.... but I think I've let it all go.... life's gonna get ya down, and I guess everyone has a different way of dealing... you've just gotta learn not to turn to drugs or alcohol - that is the absolute WORST thing you can do, especially if you have children. I know I can't talk.... only been clean for three weeks, but I'm NOT going back.... EVER. And you do need support. I hope some of this helped.... I hope you can get off the subs for good because that would probably help A LOT. Your brain's just not right on it, and it never will be. Well, good luck, keep us posted.... you've got support here. Later girl.

queenie 3 years ago

wow now we are getn real...ok! Merchant, men and women do not think the same this has been proven scientifically. The sooner you can wrap your brain around that one the easier your love life will be. I dont want to sound bitter cause im not. I adore men and i have learned to appriciate our differences and embrace them. I dont claim to be a relationship connoiseur but lifes experiances have taught me that two halfs do not make a whole( forget what you learned in math). I suggest you work on your self and making yourself strong, independent and happy. im speaking from experiance. When you become psychologically and spiritually whole ( im not there but im alot more complete than i was at 23) and you share your life with someone else who is whole then your living. I think by you sharing and asking for help your on your way. It sounds as if you are trying to sabotage whatever you guys have going. Does this cat care if you drink and party cause i noticed you said he doesnt drink. When i got clean over 4 years ago i spent two years abstaining from relationships and it was the best thin g i could have done for myself. I know its not realistic to think others will but emotions can really do a number on us and learning to feel them and recognize them for what they are and not fly outta control is key. I dont remember your age but i know its young. This might be the guy for you and it might not. Life doesnt always unfold like we think it will . Infact, it almost never does and thats what makes it interesting. I hear you say your hard and i played that beat for a long time but i was hiding a very hurt little person whos spirit was broken early in life. i wonder if your doing the same? Subfreechickadee, congradulations and as far as the ambien goes if you want to be 100 percent clean stop taking it. Your brain will begin to produce meletonin along with serotonin once again to bring you to homeostasis. It will not happen while your manipulating it with ambien. The serotonin yes(energy and happiness) but the melotonin no(sleep). As long as your taking it you will need it. Since your feeling better now it wont be so bad to be awake alot and sleep when you can even if its 20 min in the day. I realize if you are working or have alot of responsibilities this isn't always feasible. But if i remember you have family helping. If thats the case and you want to be clean nows the time. Well my friends stay strong. Where are you guys ? im in Florida and im just curious.

Fun Times 3 years ago

Thanks for asking subfreechick....I'm doing well. I've been a little busy (usually working long hours, NA meetings, talking to friends in recovery, etc.), and I think I'm gonna be hurting tommorrow...i played 3rd base at the first practice for my NA softball leauge...and my fingers are a bit sore.

If you are in a relationship...it better be a healthy one...b/c a bad relationship early in recovery is a sure fire bet the pick up again. As i said before i have a special place in my heart for the ladies on this site...don't let some guy who is not fully invested in recovery drag you down with him.

I gotta fly...Ii just want to tell everyone that i am proud of you all...so please be proud of yourselves. I can't count the number of times i was in the middle of kicking that I wondered "what the hell am i doing..this sucks" and FORGOT THAT I WAS KICKING AND THAT I SHOULD BE PROUD OF MYSELF. dont make the same mistake i did.

Stay cool everyone. Take care everyone...I'll check in soon. I hope you all do the same. luv Gary

PS. Every once in a while life does put the right person in your life, just when you need them. When it happens, embrace it. you'll know when its real...you will feel it in your heart.

wronged 3 years ago

I've only commented on this site twice, but I am going into my 6th week of no suboxone. I still have headaches, but they are diminishing. I was on sub for a year and did not want to live on them the rest of my life, so decided at 4 mg. to stop. My story is like everyone else's. The first two to three weeks is the very worst! Then comes that corner you turn. But it is very slow. My depression and anxiety come and go in varying degrees. My weight still fluctuates daily, but I am starting to regain my weight, but it very slowly. My sleep is still not normal, but better overall. I'm just now able to clean my house and do the laundry (not in the same day, of course). I didn't know anything about PAWS, until reading it tonight, and I'm so glad I did. I have been experiencing short intervals of the beginning of w/d, and thought I was going crazy! That was very helpful. I have been taking it easy, though, for the last 6 weeks. Reading, doing research, watching the news; just being patient with myself. I am ready to start doing more. I got back on my treadmill, (something I love) but was shocked at my performance. I could only run very slowly for about 10 minutes before I became exhausted! That was disappointing, but I will try again tomorrow. The depression and lack of motivation is a huge factor that is sabotaging my efforts to start getting involved with the things I did before getting off sub. But, I am trying very hard not to give up on attempting to get active. It just takes so much mental energy to even get in my car and go anywhere. It's a good thing I can do my own hair, skin, and nails - right?! I did have to close my business, though. That was depressing enough! But, there was no way I could have stopped the suboxone, take care of myself, and run a business at the same time. So I decided it was more important to get off the sub, and then try the business again at a later date. Well, I've rambled enough. Thanks for listening/reading. Good luck to all out there for making such a tough decision!!

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

hey thanks for all the feedback ladies...k well we are together all the time and we do talk about anything and everything i swear and you know me and how i feel about this sort of thing but if there are soulmates out there he's mine...we are unbelievably compatible and we are that couple that all the friends make fun of but we rarely fight and we can have and do have healthy arguements however on the rare occassion we have an all out fight we are both crazy stubborn and i being unstable right now ya know detox little support i know the right things to do but when i'm hurt i go a wall. i have never been intoxicated around my daughter nor has she ever felt the or seen my as a maniac...that is my grounding point actually...i miss cleaver and i am really hard core about protecting her b/c my upbringing was all violence and addiction so her life is all sunshine and rainbows. but the b/f and i don't yell really or cause scenes we go silent...i would rather yell and freak out i think it would at least serve as a release for me even though it isn't a good solution. but since we are so close and are like one when we fight and shit gets all shut down i don't know how to handle it i wanna talk but i get bitter that i'm chasing after him it's like i'm cool w/ a 24hr self reflection period...we both need that "head" time ya know but then i start getting all fucked up and like queenie was saying it is def. that little hurt girl thing...i'm aware actually my awareness and my inability of control pisses me off...i know better but i say fuck it so after a while i feel like self destructing...ya know the people that like self mutalate or whatever as an emotional release...i swear that's what it's exactly like. that's a new truth to me that i never realized about myself or maybe it's new altogether i don't know either way i've identified it and now i'm like what do i do to correct it. i wrote you guys for feedback and called a friend in na w/long term clean time and were going to start hanging out. it's just so fucked up b/c this is actually a really healthy relationship...he's great we're great but i'm like at a vulnerable point right now and i need to gain some perspective when i get all jammed up....he doesn't mind me drinking b/c i normally only do it like twice a month tops and i don't go overboard it's like down time w/friends or my brother...it's chill [except i'm thinking it's become a problem in the fact that i'm using it as a coping/vengence tool..which i never have before...unhealthy pattern ya know] he does however completely and totally hates and condemns dope. he doesn't even take asprin for headaches or bendryl for allergies...which he as hard core...the only thing he really has done was he used to smoke all the time then when we met i didn't so he just quit...he said he wanted to for a while and when he was younger tripped but nothing hard at all...so he is in the dark to this whole world ya know. the some what good news is we finally talked and worked through it...but now is the best time for me to start figuring out how to handle being hurt...it's weird...it takes so much to get close to me...i can be friends w/somebody for years and just walk away..i usually have relationships from an emotioanl distance...i've always been indifferent to the turmoil cause i never really felt connected to begin with....now man it's different i'm def. intune and emotionally enraptured...i've allowed myself to get involved...deeply...but it's new to me...i can't handle the hurt. i agree w/queenie about working on me...that is the answer for sure. i keep thinking once this detox is done i'll feel all that closer to being complete or at least feeling true to myself so how do i deal w/shit when i feel tainted...that's a problem...i'm so extreme. ya know i try to think of it as i want to be a positive contribution to our relationship i just don't know how to come to terms w/myself in this state...i know he's not going anywhere or anything....i just need to get my shit together.ya know what's funny everybody always talks about how well i'm doing how i'm such a good mom and girlfriend and sister and how nothing ever gets to me i'm like the person everybody goes to and i cant' go to them b/c they don't know what to do with me like this and it's not all the time i'm crazy it's when i'm feeling hurt...i look at the pattern we fall into when we do have like "big" fights...fight...words thrown around...silence..ignoring eachother...little spiteful acts ...we start to communicate/tolerate eachothers presence...then the heart to heart. it's in the middle i go loco like some kind of impending doom is going on....i feel bad rambling on about this cause i'm really just circling the problem,,i don't have healthy coping skills that's it plain and simple...solution...get support, get clean...stay focused on tapering...keep things/life in perspective...find positive outlet when i'm all fucked up...i've come so far i'm like almost done w/my degree, i'm going active next year...so that helps out w/money and we get to travel and rylie gets a good education i'm not doing bad at all i just need to stay the course and not sabatoge what i've worked so hard for b/c i'm not happy when i fight w/the b/f...that sounds about right. we even went to see lamb of god yesterday and it was like what we needed for like healing or whatever...i think we both missed eachother and needed to feel complete again and i have 2 fractured ribs and 4 bruised ribs and an ankle w/a contusion from st paddy's day but i wanted to be up close and he was all protective and i don't know it just felt so good and it made me think about how he's only human and if i keep putting him in compromising positions i can ruin this...and for what b/c i'm not able to handle myself. i think i should make a list of like what i feel when we are all fucked up and what my natural responses are and why bring them to pati [na friend] and go over them w/her to figure out alternatives...healthy ones. oh and thanks subfree...communication is key so once i start working on myself and could handle shit better i'll see what i could do as for now i can even approach him when he's mad cause he's not hearing it but your right and drugs and alcohol are not the answer and actually when i'm sober i don't fuck w/drugs and the alcohol use is minimal and def. with in reason...but when i'm angry they become more like weapons...if that makes sense...i believe ani defrance said in her one song "everything is weapon if you hold it right" that comes to mind...i need to figure out why when i'm hurting i feel this need to hurt back...i need to realize he's hurting too i just don't see it...i'm blinded by rage and sadness. i'm gonna just try to answer your questions b/c i really appreciate the time you took out for me..honestly...thanks...and i don't care what your clean time is it's your soul and experience that helps ya know.

well out fight wasn't about anything important...and ya know how i mentioned he really doesn't drink...every so often he will like once in a blue moon & really it's b/c he wants to be on the same page as me so if i dont' drink he's not gonna.....we rarely fight and we do have open communication he knows he can tell me anything and i'm really good about handling it...truly...it's just a stubborn/pride thing after the fight ya know...we don't fight about serious stuff that we talk about...it seems to happen when we drink together...i'm chill but he can't handle liquor and takes everything the wrong way and flips out...completely out of character behavior....we talked about it and he decided on his own that if he does drink [which prob. won't be til the summer] he's not touching liquor. we can drink like lager and be cool. but see the thing is drinking isn't that important to me...or him...we can have fun without it...we always do...so i think maybe we should just stay away from it...but i don't know if that's practical either b/c we really only do it once and a while and it's like fun to be sort of silly and hangout w/people we never really see [we don't party all the time at all and well all his friends do and i feel ba

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

i feel bad not chillin' w/them once in a while b/c that's not really fair to him] in so far as socializing...we really are just in our own little world and venture out once in a while...i only drink or get fucked up to get back at him when we fight...other than that no not all i just have like 2-3 drinks to chill w/friends or family once in a while...that's why my behavior is odd to me with going to alcohol to spite him...i've never done that before....i'm not really a depressed person normally...but your right about not being right on subs...i def. feel off and the fact that i'm not totally clean does really depress me...i know i'm almost there but i'm not me yet and i feel like it's not fair to me or him.i'm trying to taper the best i can and the slowest ever just so i don't set myself up and give my brain restoration time...it's never gone be fast enough i guess but i should be clean soon...this has been a minor set back so i'm gonna stabalize at my dose of .50mg for a week before i start to taper again...just to try to get right. this is not only the first time i'm in love but the first time i'm in a good/healthy relationship as well as getting clean while dealing w/all this it's overwhelming...i'm overwhelming myself! so i think w/this hub's support and my willingness i can do this...i found a 12 step book based on buddism which i can relate to the abstract spirituality in it...i'm gonna see about ordering it...i'm also gonna try not to drink...that's hard only b/c that's my social time....otherwise i'm sort of just w/him and my daughter...i'm not willing to do the full out meetings/recovery thing right now...however i have my na friend and i'm cool w/her and meeting new people that don't get fucked up and for now that's good...we already have plans.i need to get a job as well i've always been independent which right now i'm not and i'm looking into picking up hobbies that i used to have i love alone time and i need healthy outlets....so i think this all sounds like a good recipe i just need to do it...detoxing kills my motivation...i can't wait til i'm done...i swear it's like a xmas present to myself. thanks again!

oh and subfree when you had that cutting thing going on....what did you do to correct that...cause i really feel like that's sort of like the same thing right now. i don't feel numb though....i feel way too much...so intense...i'm not accustom to this.

oh and queenie your spot on....i'm def. like you in that respect i need to feel like i'm working on bettering myself. right now i think i'm having a hard time b/c i still have subs in my system i don't feel "pure". i know i'm working on getting off but it's hard to stay focused b/c i feel like i'm not where i want to be and i feel guilty b/c i'm not really giving myself completely to my relationship. my self esteem is low i'm not so much apathetic more guilty and like really really want to be me again. being that your like me with feeling complete and all how did you handle life and all it throws at you while getting off subs....it just seems like i've been w/out myself for so long. i mean i'm me...but not exactly. i know it could be alot worse shit my life is alot more manageable now then back in the day but it's not like when i had four years clean...i felt so alive and good...like i had something to offer the world.

foreverannie 3 years ago

I am going on 4 days without Subs, so I'm just beginning my journey and scared. But I'm determined to make it! Last night was rough. I barely slept, my legs were crawling everywhere. So I slept in the chair for an hour or two. I tried Requip for RLS, but didn't work, so I found myself in the bathtub at 3:00 A.M. I have been on Suboxone for almost 4 years. I am better today than last night. If I can keep saying that everyday, I'll make it

My hubby doesn't understand. He has never had any "bad" habits, so he thinks it's all in my head. I hope he understands eventually that I am overcoming the worst thing I can imagine.

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

Foreverannie.... GO GIRL GO GIRL GO.... don't give up!!! It's rough, it's tough, but it's worth it! I'm on day 24... if you can make it through about day 10 or so the worst will be over. Me and my husband both actually had a good day on day 5, 11 & 12 which is what I hear from most people... around about two weeks they have a pretty good day or two.... everyone's different, but if you can make it 2 weeks, the worst will be over!!! Maybe you should print out some opiate withdrawal info for your husband... you really need his support and help... I'm truly sorry to hear he isn't supporting you through this... it's DEFINITELY, ABSOLUTELY NOT in your head!!! Maybe print out some medical info for him... that might go over better. We feel your pain girl.... there's not many people that get off opiates.... I read online 90% of people that try to quit opiates relapse within the first few days because of the withdrawals.... so only 10% succeed... you are one of these 10% now, don't give up.... it's probably the worst thing you'll ever go through because of the length, but it's not as intense as other opiates in my opinion... you just have to really want it.... I really hope your husband gets on board... I know you probably don't feel like dealing with him right now or talking him into anything... surely he'll realize after a few days that it's not in your head, and you are in pain, and you need his support.... gotta go for now will write more later and write merchant and queenie back.... talk to y'all later...

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

Now that I think about it, maybe that is what you should tell your husband, that it is in your head... it's your brain.... and there are reasons for every single withdrawal symptom you have... mostly from your brain not producing serotonin correctly or at all because of the pills, among other things.... plenty of medical reasons.

Foreverannie 3 years ago

LOL, thanks for the support, but theres little I can say to change his mind and I don't have the strength to argue with him :0 I think your right about the 5th day. Tonight, I don't feel as bad. My legs are trying to act up, as if they are saying "haha, we may or may not get you in your sleep..you never know". I'll pray for the latter! I just wish I could believe it when he says it's in my mind, then maybe I can convince myself and get through this!

Fourth day and I did scrape up some energy to play with my 2 year old and do homework with my preteen. My husband and children seem like aliens to me right now. So hence I paint on my smile.......I do see the light. My personality that Suboxone took from me is creeping back in. I do wish my doctor warned me of this 4 years ago. Maybe someone will read our stories and learn. Lets see how everything changes in the next few weeks. Heck, I could wake up tommorrow a new person :)

Fun Times 3 years ago

Hey everyone. Foeverannie....i do wish the doctor warned me about suboxone almost 4 years ago. that's how long i was on the miracle drug too. that would have been cool of her. considerate. perhaps even diligent and proffessional. no dice. whatcha gonna do.

in your head after 4 years. please. and i mean please. i been off subs for over 100 days...all the days have good hours...many have some not so fun ones. there is a definate trend. i keep getting better. the good hours get longer. in the beginning i was praying for 15 good minutes every so often. i have to remember that. when i start getting a little upset that things aren't 1000% cool now...they were about 1000% uncool at first. time heals all wounds. that truth applies to us all. stay cool, stay honest, do the next right thing, and time will just keep passing...and soon you'll bre trying to remember the pain u feel now.

100 days just happened. and its no big deal. good or not...i forgot the pain. i have enough to deal with today. ladies...i'm proud of you all. Foreverannie...i just want to let you know that being a 4 year person like yourself...damn woman...you are really doing something fucking amazing. if someone hasn't done it...it is unimaginable. u can't make this shit up. hopefully your husband is gonna realize that you need all the support he can give u. good luck and God bless u all.

foreverannie 3 years ago

Thanks so much Fun times. It's real encouraging to see someone off for 100 days. Now you are strong enough to tell us how you did it. I have Darvocets, which I know is a weak drug, to help with my leg pain, but I'm afraid of a set back. I'm gonna do this.....

I've been up all night or most anyway for the past couple of days and I think I miss sleeping the most. I miss waking up to go to work (which many would be suprised what professional job I do part time) and if I don't go to work, I spend time with my children. I work tommorrow and dread going in like a zombie. I'm not sure how my bodies doing this, but I do know that it's trying to kick it for me. My body is on my side...I'm gonna do this...

For those of you are in the same situation I'm in or are thinking about quitting, this may help. Think of reasons why you want to quit subs. For me, it was easy, they changed who I was. Plus, I felt like a slimeball going into the clinic. I don't know about your experiences, but docs around here don't think highly of addicts. And remember, you don't really feel actual withdraws till u quit completely, no matter how much your taking. So prepare yourself. THis website has lifted my hopes.

Fun Times 3 years ago

Foreverannie...i'd love to give u my best opinion on this, but i need to know something first. I need a your best recollection of how you tapered. Were you on 1mg for a week...a month...did u go 8mg kamikaze style...how did u get to 4 days on zero? Please tell me asap..i'll wait and see if u respond before signing off.

I'm gonna say this about going back to work: I did a stupid kick and went in work off 8mg (one day at the end of week 2 i took 2mg) after taking off 2.5 weeks. i was fucking terrified. i slept 1 hour in 3 days before work. from 6 to 7am...the day of work. my anxiety level...the thought that i will walk in like a zombie and possibly hit the floor right there...had me up 3 days straight. at 6am i said (and really meant) fuck it...if i hit the floor..let it be. i thought all eyes would be on me. it was welcome back for 6 minutes and i slid back into my office thinking...i just might pull this off. and i did. been back to work ever since. fucking miracle. how many mgs are u coming off of...and for how long? (My philiosophy to everyone has always been...easy fucking does it...yeah i do swear a lot...sorry...but really...i'm all for everyone having the easiest kick possible...fuck that kamikaze shit...it hurts and it is STUPID). you sound smart.

As far as professional jobs...they're all here. Legal field. Medical Field. Financial Field. Very smart students. your in good hands.

foreverannie 3 years ago

I'm not sure. I had a few 8 mgs left and I chipped off a small piece for the past month. Maybe less than 1 mg? Heck, I might as well been taking 50-lol- know what I mean?

foreverannie 3 years ago

What is Kamakazi style? Not sure what you mean

Fun Times 3 years ago

yeahhh. i know. that last milligram is the bitch of the bunch. i remember the beatle's singing that 1 is the lonliest number that u'll ever see. i kept think...yeah...u sure...cause zero is seeming pretty fucking lonely now motherfuckers. God. LOL. now i'm getting crazy again.

i'll just give u my opinion. gained through experience. less than 1 mg...you're very smart. you'll be fine. trust me. i know. i did take some tylenol ac (like a shotglass a day...while it lasted...but i did have a full bottle)...and i think i got a nice placebo effect. after u get home from work lady...ur gonna be very proud. lady...your on your way home. would i take a darvocet before day 1. fuck yeah. then again...after being off subs for a couple weeks (8mg style) i said...this is really fucking dumb...then i took 2mg...quit a week...and took 1 mg for a week. i didn't give a shit about the illustrious being on zero prize. i was trying to be reasonable. i'm glad i did it..took the 2 then 1. if i felt i need 1 darvocet after 4 days...gulp...its' down the hatch. with ZERO remorse. but that's me. u may very well be stronger. best wishes annie! it's gonna be fine.

Tamika 3 years ago

I got dis ngaw that wont stop fuckn me! From the front from the back and im like damn ngaw get off me let me get a sub rite quick!

foreverannie 3 years ago

When did you start feeling better being totally clean from everything. Sorry about all the questions. I think I'm going through this obsessive faze. Heck, I have watched the same Nancy Grace episode three times tonight

Fun Times 3 years ago

okay. my asshole buddy had this burning desire to correct me. three dog night, he claims, sang that song. one of us is likely correct. i insisted to him that it was the fucking point...not the band that mattered. but there ya go. zero is a bitch. lol.

foreverannie 3 years ago

I was going to let you slide on that one because as far as I'm concerned, I could have made that song up myself during this crazy zero week!

Fun Times 3 years ago

fyi: i refer to kamikaze style as using subs for 4 years and going from 8mg to zero in one day...flushing your pills...and having some real fun. i am not a proponent of the kamikaze method. it hurts.

well...day 2 sucked. i remember that. in fairness...i didn't need that 2mg kickstart at day 7...whatever...8 to zero hurt. i mean i kicked like a fool and was feeling good enough to work in two weeks. i felt better after 1 week. days 2 thru 4 sucked. i think u have to gauge things on when u get a little sleep. thats when u really feel better (from being on zero). ur body will crash...let the anxiety go...and sleep. lord knows ur tired . DO NOT WORRY ABOUT WORK. please...that will work itself out. u'll see. if u make it to work tommorrow...you will fell ten times better. really. that first day back to work off zero is a fucking milestone. what a relief. when u come home...you'll be proud, the anxiety of "what will work be like" will be gone, you'll be so tired from working that u'll actually sleep...and my best bet is come Wednesday...you're gonna be telling us all: it was tuff...but not NEARLY as tuff as i imagined. tell me i'm lying. i did it. you're set Anne. and...as an added bonus...i'm going to say a prayer for u by name tonite. if you're not religious...no trouble...im doin it anyway. lol. i have some extra pull with God after getting past the 100 day mark. 1 of my prayers now is worth more than 17 years of my junky prayers comibined. i beat some strong recitivism odds. He likes me.

foreverannie 3 years ago

Thanks! I'm actually on Day 5...I was fixing my children breakfaast this morning. My husband looked at me and said "You don't even look sick"...Now do remember, he has never been close to an addict before, so I assume he was expecting the sweaty face, unkempt hair, and dirty clothes- but I was none of this. Remember yesterday, I told you I painted a smile. Despite my somewhat throbbing headache, I actually enjoyed my morning with the kids. Once again, I genuinely laughed with my daughter, something Suboxone took away from me (although then I may have chalked my grouchiness up to turning 30). After driniking fluids, my headche went away, which was great. Now let me tell you about my night. Last night, I didn't sweat, have chills for the first time. I did have the creepy crawlies, but only in my right leg- still enough to aggravate the heck out of me and remind me of why I was here. I couldn't fall asleep untill 2:30, which is better than NO Sleep the night before. I prayed, prayed, prayed for strength to heal both physically and mentally. MY body is going to battle for me- I can tell.

For those of you getting ready to kick the habit and believe that It may take several weeks and months, this may give you hope. I'm not going to say that I'm healed, because I'm not. But, everyday I'm getting stronger and the worst IS behind me. My mind is thinking more clearly than years. I am so thankful that I decided to kick the habit and for this site.

Fun Times 3 years ago

Good girl Annie. You're gonna feel like a million bucks after u get off work today. I am in possession of a theory, which I think is valid. And thus begins a rant. whatever.

i believe with all my heart that anyone playing around with a milligram or less should just quit already. it aint worth it. the anxiety of what zero will feel like is worse than what zero will feel like...from 1mg or less. plus you can say...okay...now i'm actually doing this shit. and just get on with it. if it contradicts anything i said before...i guess i am growing...hopefully.

Queenie...thanks for letting me rant on the phone. i had a joycean epiphany: i told her that i was kinda dragging a bit. she asked why. i told her after 100 days...i was kinda hoping to be cured of the bullshit (weakness, lack of motivation, common stuff). my best ideas always come to me after sleeping on something. i was thinking while driving to work: hmmmmn...what was i expecting. well...there was that Fun Times parade down Michigan Avenue that the mayor never arranged. probably busy. at least the endless line of playmates congratulating me and offering me a happy ending. at least that. they didn't get the memo. so...that said...i decided not to expect anything (things always work out best for me that way), and just keep living.

that wasnt too bad of a rant. at least it was broke up pragaraphically. i want to read some rants...but they are like a stream of conscioussness dictaion from a person a 'little wound up'. im not that smart. hard for me to follow. i keep thinking i should read them backwards and diagnally and look for the cypher. just kifdding. get it off your chest. take care everyone.

Fun Times 3 years ago

and if you cant do it 'pragaraphically' as advised above...paragraphically is cool too. ;)

Fun Times 3 years ago

and if you cant do it 'pragaraphically' as advised above...paragraphically is cool too. ;)

queenie 3 years ago

Hi guys, welcome Annie ,congrats on your progress! I think this is 2 months off subs for me. When i read these posts i find myself praising God for giving me strength. Annie my advise about the restless legs is still the same; run those little legs off and icy hot is very helpful. Im at work and one of my coworkers wants me to look up the jail web site and see if her man is there. lol! Later y'all

Fun Times 3 years ago

Queenie...i'm about to look up the jail website and see if you are there. lol!

foreverannie 3 years ago

Icy Hot- whoops forgot about that one. Much congrats on 2 months. I'm not sure about the excersise thing. Don't get me wrong, before I went off subs, I was in the gym everyday but for some reason I don't know if my body can handle it. I did work today and that was fun, fun. I was out of energy but felt at peace. Went to GNC and stocked up on all the weapons I need for tonights battle.....

foreverannie 3 years ago

Icy Hot- whoops forgot about that one. Much congrats on 2 months. I'm not sure about the excersise thing. Don't get me wrong, before I went off subs, I was in the gym everyday but for some reason I don't know if my body can handle it. I did work today and that was fun, fun. I was out of energy but felt at peace. Went to GNC and stocked up on all the weapons I need for tonights battle.....

RehabSuccess 3 years ago

Great Hub! very well written and informative. I read your profile and wish you all the very best in your fight recovering addict.

Fun Times 3 years ago

Good job Annie. really. congratulations. i didn't consider myself "well" until i was on zero and at work. So how was work...as bad as u thought...a little better...or a little worse? kinda glad u went?

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

Hey guys... I got a confession to make... back when I wrote on day 22 talking about I thought I might be through it since I felt so good night 21... well, as soon as I wrote on day 22, it hit again... and last night was HORRIBLE... what the hell man... today is a little better... day 25... I was only on the shit 2 1/2 months... it's been a month of withdrawals almost... crap man... but I'm making it. Keep telling myself it's worth it, it's worth it.... I actually wrote something right after when Queenie said, "Well, we're getting real now", but I never posted it because I didn't finish... here it is....................... Sorry guys, did I get a little too real? I'm just being honest.... people have been through & do go through a LOT worse.... I know times are tough right now (ching ching $$ wise), but all this recovery and pain has got me to thinking about people less fortunate. People in more pain than this for their entire life.... I don't know if any of you listen to Kidd Kraddick (the radio show), (use to listen every morning on the way to the methadone clinic) & like I said, I know times are tough money wise, but if any of you do ever have cash to spare, he sponsors a thing called Kidd's Kids.... they take terminally ill children and their families to Disney World once a year. It's an awesome thing. It really changes these kid's life's.... I truly believe (also scentifically proven) even if you have a terminal illness, having a good outlook on iife can help your condition... help you live longer, everything. I heard this is especially true for cancer and MS.... Anyway, I just think it's a really awesome thing, all the money actually goes to what he says it's going to... he's a really awesome guy. I am so blessed to have healthy kids.... my daughter was born with several brain hemmorages... due to doctor's error... she had seizures and the whole nine yards when she a baby up until about 2 or so.... but she's FINE now... almost 6 years old, and she's extremely smart. It's actually a crazy story, anyone got time? LOL... y'all probably think I'm crazy telling y'all all this stuff.... I just realized how screwed up my life sounds.... or did sound.... no wonder I was on drugs.... LOL... just kidding. No excuse. Maybe I shouldn't have shared everything I did? I dunno, just trying to give my background.... recalling stuff I haven't thought about in years............... The end. Never finished. When our daughter was born, she was bruised from head to toe, the blood vessels in her eyes were all busted, and she was purple/blue. The imbilical cord was around her neck, every time I had a contraction her heart beat would go below 30, and the machines would go off. We were told ALL this was normal and ok.... should of had an immediate c section... doc finally came in at the last second and made me push when I was only dialated to an 8.... but anyway... we took her home, she slept constantly that day and night... we had to wake her up to feed her... I told my husband I thought something was wrong... we took her to our pediatrician the next day, they did tests... we got home, and the doctor had already called telling us to come back to the hospital immediately. She had jaundice (sp) so bad they tried to take her blood like 10 times while I was watching... they were having a hard time because her blood was so sticky... Doc said her heart couldn't have pumped that blood for another day... if we hadn't have brought her in, she would have died from that alone. After treating her for that, he runs tests, and we find out about the hemmorages. She was moved to a better hospital and was in the neonatal unit for 2 months. We were lucky to have a good doctor there, and we had to take her a lot to the Texas Children's Hopital in Houston (yeah, I'm from Texas Queenie) to a pediatric neurologist there who was bad ass. I went through this at 20, and I am just now realizing the gravity of it. I couldn't imagine my life without her. Man, I don't want y'all to think I'm crazy... I haven't talked to anyone about any of this shit or even thought about any of this stuff.... I guess rehabilitation's got me trippen... I don't think anyone here will judge though, huh? By the way Merchant... me and my husband do the EXACT same thing... we get mad at each other, and we don't speak to each other for a while... trying to make the other give in first... LOL... well, think I've said enough, later guys

foreverannie 3 years ago

Thanks for sharing Sub Free. What was so bad about your night and what did you do for it? Was you tempted?

I keep telling myself that no matter how bad we feel through W/D, there is a great, clear feeling to being clean. I can be myself clean and not be so paranoid as I do when I hide my condition. I guess that I didn't realize that being on Suboxone for 4 years really put the Addict Crown on my head more than my prior 2 years before that of pain pills. 22 days is amazing and your a trooper! I can't wait to write 22 days on here-

I think at this point someone would have to hold me down and forcefeed me Subs. I would definately put up a fight to the end. In other words. don't need, definately don't want that devil drug again.

Queen,

I just worked a half- day from 11:30 till almost 4. My hubby dropped me off and picked me up- I still felt a little weak, but believe it or not I have more energy than when I was on Subs. I support T's theory about just jumping off at 1. I have came to realize that 1 milligram was just enough to put my body in misery and in my mind that was normal to me. I kept telling myself that one milligram was saving my life, but really, it was just confusing my body. I am just relearning what normal is.

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

Foreverannie: It's actually day 25 now, but who's counting.... LOL... man, you are doing good girl... and sounds like you're determined... I totally agree with everything you said in your last post.... subs take the life out of you... me and my husband were alternating between taking 4mg & 6mg & only took 2mg for two days before jumping off so might be why we're so bad off.... it was bad for us when we got below 4mg... some people can taper without problems, some can't... I was having full blown withdrawals by the afternoon everyday we took only 4mg... then I read on suboxonetalkzone.com how to take it differently by breaking it up in my mouth and pushing it into my cheeks and stuff.... we were actually able to go down to 2mg by doing this, and it was lasting ALL DAY... but it actually made us feel "high", and we eventually went back up to 6mg throughout the day.... we were so sick of going back and forth... this other way obviously made us absorb WAY more of the subs, and that probably hurt us too even though we were able to go down to 2mg, and actually below at one point. Never went below 1 1/2 though... did anyone else take it like that?? If you read on suboxonetalkzone.com, he's a doctor & it's suppose to be better that way... I DUNNO... who cares anymore huh... ANNIE: How does it get bad at night? My neck/shoulders and/or legs start hurting really bad... my anxiety gets so high... I can't concentrate on watching tv or anything... I push through as long as I can then I go to bed... there is no miracle thing I do... but Queenie is right, I KNOW you don't feel like it, but walking DOES help with the anxiety... you have to MAKE yourself, but after you get going, it REALLY helps your legs... there are some days though when you can't walk, when your legs can hardly hold you up so I understand if you feel like that, we tried walking around WalMart one time when we felt like that, and I was literally about to fall out. But even we only felt like that for 2 or so days.... I recommend getting the hell out of the house when your anxiety gets really bad... can't believe you worked today... WOW.... I guess it does get your mind off it... I'm really impressed by all of y'all working.... we do stuff online to get by right now, but that's it.... couldn't imagine a standing job... whoa.... anyone watch American Idol????????? GO ADAM!!! I hope the fact that he's gay (have you seen the pics online?) doesn't keep him from winning.... what y'all think?

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

Sorry y'all, don't mean to be taking over the page...LOL... but I forgot to answer Merchant about the cutting thing.... Um, I don't know if this is true for all girls, but it was for me... when I was a teenager, every little thing was the end of the world for me.... starting about when I was 13... being from Texas, my parents are kind of prejudice I AM NOT... but I started dating a guy named Carlos (take a hint), and I was sneaking out of the house at night to see him.... and I got found out (busted by our dog named "Buster" how ironic).... and he was 18, and my dad was a cop so they threatened to put him in jail... yada yada.... so I was at a suicidal time in my life... I carved his initials in my ankle which are still there... I didn't have the guts to cut my wrists enough to do real damage... I think I was just extremely depressed.... which like I said runs in my family... it really just got better with time until I got pregnant.... I've battled depression on and off.... sorry I don't have a true answer for why I stopped mutilating myself like that... it did feel good while I was doing it, which is screwed up, I know... but I couldn't even imagine doing it nowadays... like I said I think my problem was more being a crazy teenager, and there's another reason behind why I did it.... something that's carved on my other ankle, but I'm scared to say because it's horrible..... not even I can go there... LOL... I'm sorry I don't have any answers, I suck, I know... good luck dealing, you have a good head on your shoulders... you're on the right track... maybe talk to a professional if you're still struggling with why you do what you do or why you are how you are.... oh I forgot, you don't like that shit huh... don't blame you... now I'm rambling... bye y'all

foreverannie 3 years ago

Hey Sub Free Girl or anyone for that matter. How many days before your legs stopped hurting/ jittering. I'm going nuts right now and still don't think I'll sleep. Gotta work in the morning....

Also,

Subfree, you would have probably hurt less if you tapered down a little more, but there is no turning back. You are very brave for sticking to it. I tapered to one for awhile, but I have been on them for over 4 years.

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

My legs still hurt, especially at night... my husband's hurt sometimes at night, but his stopped hurting daily around two weeks... he hasn't had the neck or shoulder pain like I have either... but his teeth hurt sometimes and mine don't... we stayed on the exact same track until day 13.... looking at my journal, the leg pain got better on day 10, and it has come and gone since then, getting worse for me at night come about 8pm.....

foreverannie 3 years ago

day 6

today was tough i guess, very tired, even though i may have squeezed in 4-5 hours of sleep. I took Melontonin last night along with Sleep MD and kept a heating pad nearby for my legs, which were aggravating. I'm not sure if the Sleep stuff made me drowsy today, but I just didn't know if I could make it through the 4 hour half-day I had. My legs were tingly and like spaghetti. My career requires a strong, clear mind at all times. Noone knows my "secret" of course- I'd lose my job. But I Made it and I'm still clean!!!!

I still have no cravings for Sub or anything else really. These are the things I'm looking forward to over the next couple of weeks

1. smiling and not feeling guilty

2. being able to get off the couch without thinking about my legs

3. returning to the gym- believe it or not, I'm losing more weight right now NOT going to the gym. Don't want to lose much more

4. Cleaning my house

5. Waking up in the morning with a headache and NOT raiding my medicine cabinet.

I am getting along better with my hubby. Sub kept me on edge. Looking forward to staying clean. I went to the pharmacy yet again and bought Legatrim PM for leg pain and sleep (11.99) and Icy Hot (thanks to Queenie) will let you know how it goes....I will get through

Fun Times 3 years ago

im probably not going to be taking up space on this post anymore (possibly say hi)...i've been off subs awhile...it's probably time to cut the cord, so i wanted to say a couple things.

thanks everyone for your help. this site meant an awful lot to me...even after kicking 70 days. you folks helped me out alot. you guys on this site, along with friends, family, (even co-workers) and other recovering addicts helped me get my life back. and i haven't really had it for over 20 years. so thank you to all of you who helped me through this. this site meant alot to me...and you people are this site. Thank you Recovering Addict for setting up this forum. I honestly believe that through this format and your initaive that lives will be saved. That's something i hope you are very, very proud of.

Merchantofdeath. you are a fascinating person. i don't mind be called a bigot or being told i act in an unattractive way...not in the least. i've been called things way worse than that and i don't care to defend myself. my two best friends are atheist/agnostics (leaning atheist). atheist i have found are unusually smart people...many are gifted...as i believe you are.

my arguments to you in retrospect regarding the fact that you can't prove God doesn't exist were reductio ad absurdum at best, and simply intellectually dishonest at worst. let's face it...i cannot prove the tooth fairy doesn't exist. its fairly common knowledge that its impossible to prove anything doesn't exist...outside the bounds of a confined structure of rules...such as pehaps geography or mathematics. and even that's tricky. you get my point. my argument was ridiculous.

i do want to say you are one of the smartest people i have had a dialouge with. i don't measure intelligence by memory of facts. im not great at trivial pursuit. i don't care about trivial things. u question everything. you have a wonderful imagination. and u made me want to read fightclub. you're boundless enthusiasm for deciphering the meaning of existence on what i consider to be a very sophisticated plane is incredibly admirable to me. at your age...if you stay off drugs...the world better watch out. you are gifted. more so than the atorneys i work with. much more.

K and Dustybug...you are both extremely bright. u both have a violent (which i consider to be wonderful) and intense 'problem' with settling down in the sense that odinary people do, you are displaying the same fantastic 'questioning' of the meaning of existence as merchantofdeath. that is extremely commendable. life defined as a 9 to 5 and a happy marriage is an extremely shallow view of existence. if not shallow...it's extremely common. very univentive bordering on inspired. it should be unsatisfying. u ladies ae right. i applaude you both, and i hope that you both find that intangible 'something else' that is satisfying to an inquiring mind. please post it if you do. i don't need to post...but i will be looking at what u guys are up to. you both will be dangerous as well when unshackled by withdrawals and your intellect can run wild and do wonderful things.

all 3 of you ladies. u are young. u are intellectually sharp. that's not exremely uncommon. but u are also questioning the very meaning of life itself...which is the singular question of the highest order (that is extremely uncommon)...u are unsatisfied with the status quo....and you are hungry for answers. that dynamic got me involved with narcotics. u have your youth. as i've said...u have the world. i'd love to be in my mid twenties without being numbed by drugs...so i could actually do something important. i'll try at 39. i still have the adenaline...but much, much more responsibility that i had at 24. as Tyler Derton said in fight club, (close paraphrase)..."it is time to let go...of everything. the things you own, end up owning you". be as unattached as possible. and dream big. be unafraid. the kick really is just a bit unpleasant. you've all tapered so well. call it a day with the subs...suffer a bit (u'll forget the pain sooner than you will ever imagine), and go do some damage ladies.

i'm not the authority on anything. but i have met and dealt with all types of intellectuals, some leaders of industry, college and law proffessors...and attorneys ranging from common real estate attorneys to chief counsels of billion dollar conglomerates. and i'll tell you what my boss told me one day. he said "I don't know if you are aware of this, but I (he) have dealt with common attorneys to fortune 500 businessmen...and one day you(me) will realize tha you are just smarter than them'. one day it happened. i realized. one day you three will realize that people just ae not as smart as you. and when you do...if you are off drugs...you will have some Fun Times for real.

everyone else...thanks for all your help. especially Queenie. you lady REALLY helped me. more than almost anyone i know. friends and family helped...but in a different way. i couldn't talk to them and expect them to empathise with kicking dope. you brightened quite a few of my days, from post comments to conversations. thanks again. i just wanted to thank everyone and specifically give three young ladies justified encouragement, because i wrongly "put them dow before". i hope i've made a reasonable amends. i meant every word and it all came from my mind and from the heart.

best wishes gang.

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

http://www.medcalc.com/narcotics.html

this is a conversion chart for dosages....i find it easier when i convert my dose of bup. [subs] into methadone. even though they're different...they have alot in common in regards to detox.

http://suboxonetalkzone.com/?tag=tapering-suboxone

that is a website regarding the potency of subs....no joke...jumping off at 2mg or 8mg...no difference...subs has a ceiling effect...i've known this and tried finding the best site for you guys....going down to even .25mg still isn't enough to deter w/d's. there is alot going on w/ your biochem. then you realize and when you jump off so fast your setting yourself up for a long hard detox plus it'll take forever for restoration...either way do what you want so long as you stay clean i'm just trying not to mess myself up more than necassary.For all those still detoxing i recommend even surfing around the sites maybe you can find not only hope but maybe some tips.

i would also recommend looking up PAWS b/c that is a huge problem w/people who jump off at 2mg +. I recommend eating right & exersize...but hey easier said than done right? that song...time is on my side sort of thing comes to mind.

oh subfree...thanks for replying...all is well actually...i've done some research as well as started to build a support network w/people i trust. it's like an impulsive/anger thing...i've learned how to handle alot but when things are new my first instinct is that so it's sort of like a self evolution thing i'm gonna have to keep in check and i'm trying to figure out some main triggers and my natural responses then some positive intervention [that i can do]....thanks though it's been a while since i acted out/got f*cked up and it def. through me i appreciate all the time you took out.

those who don't know: the technique that records the multifarious thoughts and feelings of a character without regard to logical argument or narrative sequence. The writer attempts by the stream of consciousness to reflect all the forces, external and internal, influencing the psychology of a character at a single moment.

yep...def. what i do.....good self reflection tool...the logic is usual found inside the madness....creativity & open-mindness are a prerequisite to reading.

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

.25mg day 2 [no idea what day i'm on altogether]

well no fun...but whatever i'm gonna stay at .25 til i feel stable then i'm gonna cut that in half.....whatever wee amount that'll be...i'm hoping i get throught the night w/out taking more...but who knows...right now i'm really light headed allergy thing and some chills not so bad though...more blah really...but i kinda screwed up my taper schedule the other day so i expected to feel this way...i was cool on .75-.50 but that's where i left off....25 is a new adjustment so i'm just gonna truck on hopefully it'll pan out soon....i was gonna just start skipping days once i got down to this amount but i think i'm gonna just keep weening myself down until it's just to the point of being an unreasonably small amount.

next week come hell or high water i'm gonna start up at the gym b/c i know that will make a world of difference. the depression sucks but i know it's like superficial so it's all good and exersize helps everything...isn't it funny though how your so damn weak and yet the one big help requires you to move....sick sick joke iswhat it is!!! well i'm gonna go and try to catch some sleep while i feel it coming over me....good night to all!

foreverannie 3 years ago

Fun Times:

Good Luck to you,you may not realizethat you really helped me a couple of days ago. It was nice to have someone that understands what I was going through. You are truly gifted in helping others and I really hope you at least check in daily :0

Great Merchant OD that you are exercising. I have saying that all week. Day 6 off of everything was tough - much worse than Day 5 and I have been telling myself that I must take back control of my life or this is going to be a bad week.

Just remember, based on my experience, don't be suprised by the crappiness you fell after Day 2 of quitting everything. I was down to your dose and it just hit me like a brick. You have to really have do mind control. I wish you the best. BTW,, do you have any children Merchant? I have 2 and it's been really tough taking care of my kids, working and getting through this. I firmly believe keeping yourself busy does help.

Also, I wrote earlier that I would update you guys on the OTC stuff from the pharmacy I bought to help with W/D.

Legatrim PM is great (11.99 at CVS). It actually has helped with my leg cramping/ RLS.

I'm also taking Vitamin Supplements, Amino Acid, and Melantonin to sleep. Pray that all goes well for me tonigt...

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

ya i'm gonna go down to aprx. .12mg once i'm stable on .25mg then i'll start skipping days. i don't feel 100% but i'm not dying and i'm sort of happy i'm not feeling well b/c that's telling me my natural neurotransmitters will be kicking in to replace what i've been taking away...if i didn't feel anything i think i would be a wee bit worried. i just try using whatever source of inspiration i can find ya know. i think keeping my head in the right place is key b/c i know it will get to the point of intolerance and that's when i'll need the inner strength...but for now i'm still a guinea pig scoping out how low i can go before jumping off.

dude for sleep...benadryl all the way...most of the time your paying crazy cash for a bunch of bs when you can skip it and just take the main ingredient....i don't know about legatrim pm though...i have never scoped it out so hey if it works awesome but pop benadryl if ya need some sleep just don't exceed 50mg or it's counter productive.

and ya i have one daughter...shared custody..well i'm primary but it's shared...and we're okay...i'm focused on her education right now so she's pretty occupied with that...and leap frog rocks! plus i have a great b/f that supports me and is tight w/her so things run really smooth here. i wake up w/him...normally...eat do like me time then she wakes up eats we watch tv eat clean or bum around...depends on what is going on w/me...eat lunch then b/f home from work he makes dinner we all chill out play/watch movies then she goes in her room and gets her hanging out w/myself down time and me and him get our time....it's nice and i get a break all weekend long so i'm lucky in that respect...plus detox is more annoying than anything....i'm not really losing sleep or aching...just mild cold stuff...i've been tapering pretty slow so i think that's making a difference. but like everybody else i've had my ups and downs...can't wait til this burden is unloaded!

i don't work right now....i'm off from school and army so i have the best time ever to get this done...i'll be looking for a job in a few weeks...money sucks! but i sort of need this time out to get my head together...i have a lot of responsibility and commitments to fulfill in the near future so i want to be in prime condition.i'm used to juggling alot and it's really out of my element to be sitting idle like this.

everything in me wants to just quit, deal, dope myself up and all that but i'm staying the course and doing it right this time. subs are very strong...i think most people under estimate their effect on your body and i don't want to f*ck my shit up worse. personally i don't know why they don't use short acting opiates for addiction maintance but whatever....i'm not in the mood to fight city hall. i think most decisions are made w/poor intentions. do you know they have a patch to help you come off subs in the uk...not available in the us? i believe i posted a link to some info. i'm knocking subs but really any consitant opiate flow in the body could and would help a willing addict...i guess tolerance would be a problem...but their is....i'm gonna stop i'm going off on a tangent. but hey all is well w/merchant [speaking in the 3rd person...bendryl kicking in i think] and i hope all my other sickies are okay too...damn siren call of opiates!

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

haaaaa-chew!!! haaaaaaaa-chew!!!

foreverannie 3 years ago

Day 7- 1 week clean!!!!

OK, last night was rough. The Legatrin worked for a couple of hours, then my legs were spastic all night. I went to work again for 1/2 day 8:00 till 12:30. I felt much better this morning. I came home, took a nap and woke up with a classic headache, not the foggy doped up headache like the Subs gave me- jumped in the bath and now for the 1st time in a week, I'm doubting my choice to quit.

I'm not turning back to Subs, no way, but just wishing I didn't feel bad. See, when you spend over 5 years on some type of pain pill, you cab forget what its like to be in real pain. I pray tonight is better!

Merchant, your doing great. Do you have support when you do take your last Sub?

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

well to update on progress i woke up at 530am and felt like my heart was tearing it's way through my chest so i made the decision to take my .25mg for the day. i usually try holding off but whatever....i'm takining it slow either way....if i feel all out of whack later on before bed i'll take .12mg to coast through the night...eventually i'll adjust to the .25mg...but it's almost 12hours later and i feel better than yesterday when it was about the same hours later since my .25mg dose so my body must be compensating.

i pretty much laid around all bummed out yesterday...mentally struggle to stay on course....but today i went out...well i had an appt. and i feel like cleaning so something must be going okay.

i talked to my NA buddy and she and i are gonna hang out next week when i'm down to .12mg and especially when i start skipping days. my cousin also works w/preg. woman on methadone in a half way house and she's sending me info on tapering off long term opiates...i can always use more info. and my "taper sponsor" guy from the other site i go to has me checking in everyday to evaluate my body's responses to change in sub mg. so far he said i'm at the norm. but to take it slow it's worth it.

so overall i guess i'm doing okay i'm just getting nervous b/c i'm so close...but i really do believe i'm doing this the right way...or the best way for me and i have faith in my instincts...i know i won't feel great or anything but i think it will be less than what it could have been.

are you guys all at work??? i know i usually have a bunch of posts at once but where is everybody? hmmmmm....i should probably apologize in advance b/c i think my rants will only worsen as i come down...but once i'm good it'll balance out. wow the lower i go the more sensitive i become...so strange...i'm not usually this way...oh and i get a vistor this weekend hooray...i'm quite the hermit...but my cousin is coming in for an overnight visit! it'll be my 2nd day at 12mg so that's ideal...keep my mind busy. k i'm sure i'll be back!

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

HOORAY!!!! life is out there! yes foreverannie i have some...i'm working on that. my b/f will help w/my basic needs but can't really grasp where i'm at b/c he's not an addict...my cousin and NA friend as i've mentioned. i have a horrific case of being a hermit and usually go it alone..this web site has been my venting spot...obviously...when i do come off i may attend meetings to just fill the time....other than that no family or anything of that sort...most of my friends are deliquents so that's a no go...umm but i think i'll be okay w/what i got.

it's funny how my body is like messed up in waves when i taper the first two days are not really fun but then they even out and by like day 4 or 5 i drop again but it's not intolerable at all...well yet. plus i'll be skipping days until i hit a stable point like once every 4 days @ .12mg then i'll jump off. i really want my body to heal as i go...i don't mind some w/d or whatever as i go i just don't want anymore damage done.

so i've been pretty much eating and sleeping well overall...some minor stuff that i've mentioned but my "schedule sponsor" guy is really spot on and everybody is an individual w/individual needs so i'm well we are tailoring this entire tapering not so much around time more so around how i react to change and how well i adjust.so it's been helping me predict what days are going to be rough and i have this hub 24/7 to vent...it all helps...it really does. everybody's been awesome...

how are you dealing? i hope you feel better soon. what was your taper plan like?

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

Update: Night 25 was pretty good... day 26 was pretty good... night 25 and 26 hubbie had fever... yep, we both got a cold from the kids... sore throat, fever, runny nose, the whole nine yards. Day 27 off subs today... despite being sick for 2 days, I feel ok. Legs haven't really hurt since day 25... neck and shoulder pain is minimal and so is anxiety. TOMORROW IS ONE MONTH! WOOO HOOO! Foreverannie: Day 6,7,8, and 9 were the worst for me and my husband so hang in there!!! Try not to worry what tomorrow brings. You've had a great attitude so far.... Merchant too... y'all are doing great. I just wanted to say a couple things, and then I'm going to stick to sub talk from now on unless someone else says something... I guess no one watches American Idol or y'all aren't reading my posts, LOL... not a problem. Also I agree and disagree with Fun Times, and I had to say something because I do strongly believe in God. There is archeological evidence that the Bible is real. And some of the smartest people in the world are atheists, but on the other hand some of the smartest people in the world are the most religious. There are different types of intelligent people.... 90 something % of top field scientists are atheists, and we'll all agree that they're some of the smartest. I can't even pronounce some of their job titles. Then again, look at Einstein - he was married to his cousin, but damn did he have a brillant mind. Something I studied in college was "savants" - extremely brillant at some things and lacking greatly in others. I'm talking about I saw a guy that could quote you the temperature and weather forecast for any day, from any year - going back since he was born. You could ask him the square root of an incredibily complicated number, and he could tell you in 5 seconds.... but he couldn't tie his shoes. He could also pick up just about any instrument and just start playing it. Some kids with autism can do that too. Point is, intelligence comes in all shapes and sizes.... try not to judge it on religion. Not knocking anyone's religion or lack of or whatever... just saying. Anyway, sub talk from now on. Good luck making it through the day Merchant and Annie...

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

Hey Merchant... your posts popped up after I just wrote.... damn you're doing so much better than me or my husband could... if you can really, truly get down to taking something every 4 days then from what I've heard, you really will probably have mininum withdrawals... we just couldn't do it... I, personally, was suffering so badly starting like 5 hours after I would take the suboxone when I got down below 4... we just went back and forth so much, going up and down, couldn't take it any more, that's why we jumped off. I had a lot of sub left too... you're doing AMAZING.... I think you're right on about everything... the tapering and not going by a real time table, just listening to your body instead... that's what you gotta do... that's what everyone successful tapering says... you're doing everything perfect. Also, yes... I was extremely emotional during the withdrawals - as you can tell I went a little crazy telling everyone on here my business.... too much info, I know, but I couldn't help it, it just all came out, and it did help. I really wish you luck with your taper... you're already extremely low - definitely be proud of yourself!!!!! Both you and Annie!!!! Hang in there guys!!! I'm feeling 1,000% better than I ever did on suboxone!!!!!

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

thanks....it's hard to be patient but i think it's worth it...i'm happy your feeling better and don't worry about spilling it all dude we all need to just put it out there from time to time...i'm looking forward to when i'm finally off it but at least i'm able to do my dishes...that's kinda cool.

i do have a question though...what is with all the formal good byes??? hey i say screw all that and pop in time to time to say hello...or instead of goodbye what about adieu? i like that better goodbye is so concrete...plus i'll b here for a wee bit yet and would like to hear from all the cats that i started with so ya im protesting this goodbye thing....i say no....no goodbye...just adieu! :)

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

Also I'm pretty sure Einstien's parents were cousins (I could be wrong, but I think I heard that on the History channel LOL)... gross huh. Annie: it's normal to feel the way you're feeling.... me and hubbie felt the same way... didn't want subs, but was regretting getting off because of the withdrawals symptoms... it came and went (feeling like that) so it's ok.... it will get better soon girl... going down to 1/2 an Ambien tonight guys..... gotta get off em, it's time... been a month now... wish me good luck. From 2 throughout the night to a 1/2.... damn

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

no not insofar as i know his parents were not related nor was he to at least his first wife but later i think he did get w/his second cousin but ill have double check that ...however that was quite common then even my buddy poe married his 14 yr old cousin....ummm adam and eve had cane able and seth...so did they sleep w/eve? lol just curious since insest is on the table...

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

oh and if you have a hard time sleeping turkey warm milk and benadryl....good times they do help

Fun Times 3 years ago

subfreechickadee...i believe in God too. I was making amends for past indescretions toward atheits on this site. I'll break my silence for God. LOL!

PS. Foreverannie- the fucking weekend is coming up lady. hang in there. ok-it's thursday...1 day left lady. uyou know you got one day in you. what the hell...you're all ready back at work. i'm gonna promise u something...in no time your going to look back and think "what horrible week...did i even have one"? ;) c'mon lady...you have a singular purpose...you know that. de driven. all will be well.

PSS. if u wanna skip the turkey (good for sleeping...no doubt) and get straight to the source...i have heard they are selling straight tryptophan at health stores or online. natures knockout drug of choice.

Fun Times 3 years ago

and Foreverannie...if you can't de driven...be driven. listen. i have been on the bullshit for 4 years too. i cannot emphasize enough that it kinda sucked in the beginning...but i was prepared for way worse. and weeks later...it really is like "big deal...that was easy".

that is one major reason the recisitivism rate with heroin addicts is so high. they forget how miserable it is to kick...even after kicking. just go on misery cruise control for another day or two. your life is worth a day or two...isn't it?

foreverannie 3 years ago

FUN TIMES, your back! I've missed reading your posts. Thanks for the encouragement. My husband is an engineer and getting ready to be called out for at least 24 hours. I so dread being responsible transporting my kids (12 and 2 year old) back and forth to school, sitter, then I have work tommorrow (half day again, although that will change to full day next week). Dreading taking care of my own kids- I feel pathetic for writing that.

Anyway, what do you guys know about Amino Acids, when and how much should you take and how do they help? I went and bought a big bottle of the liquid stuff and it is so GROSS. My husband said it might make me gain a few pounds, but for the 1st time, I don't care!

Sub Free, so I may have to weight for a couple of more weeks for my legs to stop- that sucks! Thanks for your informative posts. It's always great to hear from someone that went through the same thing I am going through now.

Merchant, I understand about your guy not understanding. My husband is the same way- never had an addiction (he keeps askinng me is I'm sure I don't have the flu-lol)and I have kept everything a secret from 95 % of the world. You guys, my hubby, my doctor, counselor, and 1 other friend (who is also addicted to Subs) are the other 5%

Geez, we will all get through it :0

Where's Queenie

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

Ah, religion... the cause of so many wars.... I stand corrected about Einstien... I agree, it was atleast his second wife or whatever they were & that was common then... it was someone in his family, I remember something shocking that I didn't know before, and I thought it was related to cousins and someone close to him (besides him and his cousin)... give me a break, pills screw with your memory... LOL... and it is true that there's only like a 2% increase in birth defects when even 1st cousins mate... sorry, I'm not judging anyone, especially Einstien, but I personally, couldn't do it.... that's why I said gross... because it is to me, but that's me... the Bible doesn't talk much about women, but Cain did have a wife from Nod, outside of Eden.... who knows who she was, but I don't believe it was Eve... people lived a long time back then, it's obviously leaving out something because it says should anyone find Cain, they should not kill him so there was obviously enough people around... Adam lived 930 years I believe.... we could argue about this all day.... I'm sure there's insest back in my family somewhere... I'm not judging... just stating my opinion... I do believe that most religions are wrong in what they believe, and I do not believe in going to church & having someone tell you what to believe.... you should read the Bible yourself & interpret it in your own way... I don't believe in anyone pushing their beliefs on anyone else so I'm not trying to do that. Just a little healthy debate. Yeah, I know turkey's got an amino acid in it that's suppose to help sleep - they say that's why you get sleepy after Thanksgiving dinner... Thanks for the advice

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

Damn why does my shit keep doing that? I refresh, and there's a shit load of posts that wasn't there when I started to post.... yeah, L- tryptophan, that's it.... Annie, I don't know if your legs will hurt that long, I pray not.... I just gotta be honest. My husband has been doing a lot better than me in the pain department so just stick with it... you never know. This is what all we've been taking daily since day 1... a soft gel multi-vitamin, B-12, Fish Oil, L-Methionine with B-6, L-Glutamine, and 5-HTP.... and that liquid stuff is unbearable for me too.... I have three children of my own, don't feel bad about saying you don't feel like caring for them, I know you wish you could, and I guess you have to if you're not going to have help, but me & hubbie have felt the same way - there's just some things you can't do or definitely don't feel like doing... you're very vulnerable right now... hang in there... day 11 and 12 were really good for us so look forward to that because most people do mention a significant difference around that time... Fun Times is right... the weekend is almost here, you're doing great.... the worst, worst is almost over I believe... just remember, you're coming off way less than I did, right?

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

Caffeine is shown to help opiate withdrawals in mice... but I wouldn't recommend taking it until you're through the worst... some people tend to feel like they're on LOTS of caffeine while going through withdrawals.... so I guess it's not for everyone. We take some every fews days, and it seems to help... but we didn't start that til after two weeks.... just a thought....

foreverannie 3 years ago

Can't imagine caffeine at this time- lol. Have you or anyone else heard of anything over the counter that specifically is made for withdrawals?

Ok, I'm doing fine tonight so far, DAY 7, and I'll share why. I was laying around on my couch tonight. My husband was dozing in the chair waiting to get called out. I decided to take Queenies advice and workout. Didn't feel like the gym, so I just turned on Video on Demand and did the 10 min workout. It was free and my husband joined me. We actually had a couple of laughs trying to keep up with the instructor, but for a moment I felt normal....

Just wanted to share because if any detoxers are sitting on the couch and you have cable, give it a try....

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

annie i am happy you had a real moment with your man and yourself they are priceless right now...keep up the good work! i have my ups and downs but luckily i've been pretty okay...and i love when i'm on an up and up and i can give myself to him 100% instead of like i'm sick...blah...let me try to be me...plus he knows and it's like he as well as your husband suffer too they miss us and it's a really cool thing when you can just chill and be you...i'm seriously very happy for you...it sounds like your day was hectic and all over and now what a happy ending...[no pun intended]..lol

subfree...i'm a ball buster...it's cool dude state whatever all day and no worries about the memory i'm spent too.

as for amino acids....well..since it has been asked i'll hook you guys w/some information tomorrow...i just took a benadryl and want to go watch evil dead...for the 100th time in my life...but a quick fact LCN i believe is being used experimentally for endorphin and norep. restoration in patients w/MS. i have a pretty lot of data on this topic and there are a few things you can buy at a local vitamin store...i'll get the names for you later on. here's a website that you can read then maybe hit your dr. up but i am warning you that if you take any monoamine oxidase inhibitors you really need to be carefully what else you take...even over the counter they are no joke.i really don't know all the otc stuff only biochem end but i'll be happy to supply you w/them and you can see if there are products available for restoration.

https://www.neurorelief.com/index.php?option=com_c

there are also a vat of diet alterations you can make....cayenne pepper added to your food is one that helps stimulate opiod receptors and exersizing is a perpetually useful tool to combat w/d it sucks i know i'm a slacker that knows better and yet i often chose to suffer. also you want excitatory amino acids like glutamate...as a matter of fact that particular a.a. is key in opiate w/d there are also enzymes you can take one i believe is tyosine or something to that effect....i'll get all this together tomorrow for ya but scope this little bit out for now...the chaotic abstract it is...oh and don't pay for nrt or anything just use the information to sort of crash course it and then bring it up to your own dr......much cheaper...i don't really endorse any of this though...el natural for me...hence the slow taper...but hey i'll get the info to ya...i love doing that sort of thing...it's right up my alley...oh sex & chocolate also stimulate endo. and nore. .....happy times there...caffiene def. helps w/pain but....anxiety is alright there so becareful on that one gauge where your at....i stay away....well except in chocolate...mint is good for your stomach..take bicarb soda and a mint an hour before you eat...

seriously...i actually would suggest tapering slower truth be told your body obviously is crying out for a reason...you should not feel so bad...i'm on day 3 .25mg and i'm pretty chill...not so tired but i know i'll get like 6hours in...eventually...but i know everybody is like you've come this far but everybody seems to be suffering tremendously...hey i'm here for whoever and whichever method they chose...i'm just saying listen to what your bodies telling you...but it requires a lot of self discipline either way but before anybody starts pumping there bodies up w/synthetic stuff...just ask yourself are you aligned? i know everybody wants to be off it right now...hell i do i can't wait...but apart of recovery is changing the behaviors that got us into this mess right? i just feel so bad for everybody suffering when it's not necassary that's all and i wish i could just wave a wand...man if your hurting really bad taper slower there is no harm in that your pride and anticipation will be okay...at least they're my demons....as a foot note this is not directed at anybody just in general....anybody popping in here reading or whatever...your not gonna be in heaven or whatever but you don't have to be in hell.[and everybody knows i'm figuratively speaking.... :)]

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

hey does anybody else ever get giddy before w/d kick in like some silly limbo thing?....

foreverannie 3 years ago

Merchant,

Thank you, thank you for the advice! I can't wait to look through all of the websites you posted. Such will also be useful for others going through this.

I did taper to very little for a long time (few months) before deciding to go cold turkey. At this point, my mind is telling me that if I take a small amount of sub, then I'll just b sitting myself back. Plus I'd have to get it off someone, which I don't want to revert to that habit. I'm going to have to deal with it eventually anyway :).

Day 8: Last night was a little rough, but I got almost 7 hours of sleep and my bodies loving it. Everyday, I'm getting more and more morning-sleep. Last night was a little rough with my legs and arms. At times, I just wanted to break, but I feel decent this morning. My Husband is working in another state and won't be home for another day- so I'm a little paranoid about that because he helps me get through the day- taking care of the kids and all.....

My sons 2nd birthday is May 3. I pray that I will feel good that day so I can just enjoy him without being so self absorbed.

foreverannie 3 years ago

Merchant,

Thank you, thank you for the advice! I can't wait to look through all of the websites you posted. Such will also be useful for others going through this.

I did taper to very little for a long time (few months) before deciding to go cold turkey. At this point, my mind is telling me that if I take a small amount of sub, then I'll just b sitting myself back. Plus I'd have to get it off someone, which I don't want to revert to that habit. I'm going to have to deal with it eventually anyway :).

Day 8: Last night was a little rough, but I got almost 7 hours of sleep and my bodies loving it. Everyday, I'm getting more and more morning-sleep. Last night was a little rough with my legs and arms. At times, I just wanted to break, but I feel decent this morning. My Husband is working in another state and won't be home for another day- so I'm a little paranoid about that because he helps me get through the day- taking care of the kids and all.....

My sons 2nd birthday is May 3. I pray that I will feel good that day so I can just enjoy him without being so self absorbed.

Fun Times 3 years ago

religion started wars. so did land. so did money. so did power. so did egos. so did facism. i dare say someone hated someone else's shirt and that startred a fucking war. lol. i'm entitled to at least one rant.

merchant...u really are fucking stubborn. be stubborn with your kick and as my former dealers said when them peoples past by.."all's well!".

it friday..i'm getting happy. undiscerning comment(s) of the day: 1. i don't care who einstien fucked. in fact i keep a list of shit i don't care about...i have to add that one. he really aint shit to me. he wasn't saying...hey good job...keep it...during this kick. not once. 2. i do not believe in vitamins. lol. no joke. unless they give u a placebo effect. that's cool. i really don't think the normal rules of biological well being apply to people in the midst of long term opiate withdrawals. i just don't. except for chocalte, tryptophan, and sex. those are winners.

forverannie-respectfully speaking...your mind isn't your friend right now. sure it wants drugs. fuck your mind...why not...you got a mindfuck from it going on obsessing over orange pills. how motivated are you foreverannie. no shit-i would have set myself o fire for a day or two (if it didn't mess with my complexion) to be through with this shit. and it the subs were easy and cheap for me. one dr. visit (not a clinic visit) every 2 months...and insurance covered the pills. still not interested.

subfreechickadee-i am speaking sincerely when i sat great fucking job. absolutely stand up job lady. now-i'm fucking around again: do really really believe adam lived to be 930? shit. lemme guess..the canopy effect. with faith like that...no wonder u kicked cool.

as far as the leg thing goes i will say this-i had cramps for a couple weeks. three times i woke up in the middle of the night with my leg like at about a 65degree angle in the air fucking screaming...b/c the muscles were tightening...and i am convinced the tendon was about to snap. then in statred to spreading to the other leg. i laid back cool...repeated a mantra...and it slipped away right after that. that actually hurt...very sharp pain. that numb pain is what u have to expect.

merchant-i did look up some of the info on the sites u posted and the facts seem mutually exclusive. for what its worth.

happy friday everyone!

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

.25mg day 4

ummm i lasted a full 25 hrs before taking my dose but i really hate the time schedule i'm trying to figure out a way to fix it w/out messing up my taperingschedule. i def. not adjusted to the decrease so i guess i'll be at .25mg for a few more days...my appetite is up and down but i'm like 5'4'' at 105pds and my b/f is always putting food in front of me...and that helps alot so diet has been good regardless of the last few days...sleep well i'm def. getting it just not like i was my schedule is off i get 3 hrs and wake up at 530am agree and wait to push the hour threshold then take my dose then waiting like another 1 -2 hours then falling asleep for acouple more hours. i'm not really that bad off or anything i'm just adjusting and it's messing up my daily routine...i don't like that very much at all but hey whatever i'll deal.

annie if your okay then awesome...truck on through it your doing well....i mean i'm not w/you or inside your head but from what your laying out there it seems to be going a little bit easier for you than from what i've heard before so def. stay your course...your hubby will b home soon enough and you'll be able to relax a wee bit.

funtimes...y are you so hostile? subfree mentioned einstein so we chit chatteed about it...so the fuck what....don't read it dude if side talk gets you so worked up...now the next time she wants to talk about something to pass the time or whatever how is she gonna feel? we know i don't care about what anyone thinks but maybe she does...i'm sorry you get so worked up but sometimes just bsing gets the day by and that is worth a million bucks. i'm not even trying to censor you...it doesn't bother me....i just thought you might want to look past all that hubris bs. nobody else seems to have a problem or takes offense...hell your apology to me or the other atheist wasn't even necassary...it was a conversation...not some moral judgement or personal attack...just people talking...your like way ahead of the game in clean time...i'm detoxing down....your a smart dude see shit for what it is and man relax you deserve it...nobody is out to get you...i promise.

as far as amino acids go...i will...once motivated go crack open a few books and hook ya up...if there is anything specific ya want to know? i'm thinking just restoration right? so what natural a.a. is depleted and what products are out there to help...that sort of thing? i'm happy the websites help i usually try finding the content that bests matches what i've read...i'm not trying to re-type my neuro. books or anything...and i try to find sites that can stand up on their own....sometimes just the infor. is correct....most of the knowledge is in research and that requires some depth to read and i don't want to bog the info up so abstracts are better i think for the general audience

...so i'll be back w/something hopefully of help. first i need to do that exersize thing i am so not wanting to do and i need to make some good meal so off i go!.............to stare into the abyss of the fridge waiting for that special something to jump out at me..mmmmmmmmmmm.

Fun Times 3 years ago

i just swear alot. im anti hostile. for real. ladies...chit chat away. really. i did say it was an undiscerning comment...kinda my way of saying...i'm just kidding.

i understand this is a serious time for people. the thing i dislike about online discussions is that nobody can tell when someone else (me for instance) is saying things in good fun. reading a line in black and white from someone u don't know is tough enough. adding the subjective addict input into what that person meant really puts things on thin ice. i did it myself before.

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

dude i feel ya i get misread all the time...as we both know....so i've just been doing the lol thing or smiley deal so my humor isn't taken the wrong way.....lesson actually learned from our talks.

oh and why does the green number up top change???? what's up with that?

Fun Times 3 years ago

ohhh..i was gonna say thanks abouts about the kind offer to relax. thanks. what is neccessary and what i want to do are up to me...but i do appreciate your thoughts. hubris. fucking classic. that's how Leonitus knocked out the Immortals at the battle of Thermopoly (ie?). Xerses had hubris. My apologies for apologizing. i don't know...fuck it...i just say what i want like everyone else.

one thing i do know. i did think this was an open forum. i never called anyone a name. i was assured you were big girls...unphaseable. my mistake. fool me twice...shame on me.

really Merchant...when u described ur relationship with your b/f...fuck...i saw it i your posts. i do belive u can turn ur back on anyone. i know i can't. i do believe u try to hurt him in subtle ways (paraphrasing u). i'm sure i have done it...but i aspire not to. and with the fact that i am past this bullshit...i bid you good luck and adieu!

Fun Times 3 years ago

mercahant..i hate the time lag. that last ost was sweet of you. ok...hopefully we can still talk with the understand that hopefully at both ends are good intentions. i eally am just fucking around...i hope people know i only take one thing seriously on this site...everyone getting clean. call the rest hostile humour...even if it's not funny to you.

i really do want you well lady. i do.

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

it's all good and ya have to constantly refresh the page it's crazy i know. i actually enjoy your humor it's witty your not a fool even if your not my biggest fan i appreciate somebody w/intelligence. getting clean is the primary objective but through our wee conversations we do gain personal insight and interpersonal skills so there is something always to be gained.

ya i'm not perfect....i love my b/f very much he's the only one ever....and yet i've never been so sadistic when hurt...huh go figure...but i'm working on that...it's all i could do ...and he's the same way actually so we both are trying to change that...but that comes with time....i guess it's sort of likethe deepest love hurts the most sort of thing...and i'm a newbie.

the reason i don't think i'm so effected by people around me is b/c i'm in a state of constant reflection...it's my prison of sorts...so i already know how i'm messed up [surprises do occur] and i truly am my worst/best critic....

but hey i'm happy it's all humor...i just say it as being bitter for a minute and as an objective opinion...which i appreciate...i thought i would sort of call it out...i don't care if i'm oppressed...we're alot alike that way...however not everybody is and for a moment i thought about people who originally posted the topic...not just my response..ya know...but hell joking around you can go where ever you want i'm as dark as they get...and screw it if nobody gets it so long as you know it's all in good fun....

i think a huge part of getting clean is not taking yourself or life so seriously

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

but really....the green number on top??? wtf...please i need to know...what is it? people on the hub? posts? number of smurfs required to make gold???? enlighten me...i very well may lose sleep!

Fun Times 3 years ago

i got two guesses. alchemist smurf makes smurf gold with three helpers...give or take. the green numbers...my best guess is that this is a limited forum as far as space...so you kick off a 6 month old rant lasting 3000 words, and add two new shorter comments pop up...and the number drops. something like that.

i really did 100% honestly appreciated the hubris remark. (am i allowed to call it brilliant without acting like i'm using hubris again? lol.) that was classic. spot on. obviously..u don't need my encouragement. i thought i was possibly hurtful to u ladies' recovery. and i just want to help. really.

u know...i can call my friend an asshole. and then the fun begins. my friends know me...they know i'd do anything for them (cause i don't have many...by choice). if someone's creeping around their house at 3am...call me. i look forward to that shit. i'm going there with two burners and bad intentions. really. if it turns out to be a cat...i'll be upset. i want vengance dexter style. and i aint trying to be clean about it. not yet anyway.

merchant...don't take this as condescending. you are by far the most interesting person on this site to me. wikepedia'd hubris...you fucking nailed it. fight club too. i don't know how to exchange email adresses or phone numbers (even though i gave the whole site mine)...but i think u are rare and gifted and extremely interesting. i'd enjoy emailing, iming, texting, or talking.

it would be fun. take care.

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

queenie....i just found a post on drugs.com from you...i just got all excited and had to tell ya....i taper w/robert....dif. name but whatever...hey such a small world...it made me jump out of my seat when i realized it was you :)

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

dexter...huh my f*ckin hero! dude when me and the b/f went to see lamb of god on sunday...well i have messed up ribs and ankle so he was sort of helping me battle of the miscreants at the show...well he was all fed up and said i wish i had one of those damn dexter needles so i can start dropping people...there is a dexter doll no lie...body bag knife badge it's bad ass i want it soooo bad! i'm a dork i know and i don't care that shit is priceless...i would love to be at the writer's table for that show i have an infinite no. of ideas! SNL too that damn i'm on a boat song...too funny. you should scope out bo burnham on youtube some of his stuff is funny...silly humor some is pretty witty...and racey.

yeah i'm a hard core vigilante myself when it comes to justice...and i too invite "evil doers" to f*ck w/me or those i care about....that's a good thing though i think most are lacking the right perspective when it comes to protecting your own or what is universally right.

i have an aim acct and the whole myspace thing no cell....they are evil...i barely answer my house phone. if ya want send me that and i'll send ya mine....it's all good.

hmmm...the number count sounds about right...i thought it was posts but i was confused by the no. fluxuating so often but that makes sense to have a limited amt. of space and so forth. i will consider the mystery solved....hooray! all is well in the world of merchant now...

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

day 4...sucks...my body is mad so very mad at me! it could be worse this i know...but i'm like so high strung right now w/no energy...no aches or anything some chills/sweats they're okay i guess...mentally though grrr. i'm making my main goal today to be putting away groceries that are chilling on my kitchen floor..there are alot of non perishables that need to go in the basement. i am so sluggish blahhhhh....but from what i hear this is one of the harder transitions and once i get to skipping days i'll be better off going through this.

it's like i'm teetering on this fence ya know like i want to be normal so bad i won't give in to temptation...i won't i know me i'm a dick even to myself...but on the other hand mmmmmmmmm sythnetic normality in the wee orange pill.....no worries that pill could crawl in a hole and die but it's like always on my mind

i know i'll adjust only to go down yet again but it's blunting the w/d for later and that is cool....taking it in increments is better for me just tonight is gonna be one of those nights...maybe i'll f*ckin go nuts and run up and down my steps til i pass out ya i can do laudry and take a shower hmmm...

sorry for the "out loud" contemplations i am honestly trying to kill this day one hour or post at a time. i have 18min til i get up and go do something....i gave myself a timeline....but i could be so insubordinate :)

Fun Times 3 years ago

awwwwww man. Merchant...i just saw lamb of god on you tube. can't u just be hard like them? i started listening to old venom, bought slayers show no mercy (their first) when it came out, early frost (i bought that fucking hellhammer ep...still upset ), and old school dri, minor threat, and coc (while hey were still punk). i still dig the misfits. "mother...." my buddy said florida had this doom death call it what u will scene. shit...draw some strength off that. there are some really kick ass bands from europe. google a a drummer ccalled hellhammer...if u arent into euro balck metal. that fucker is insane...for real.

i saw dri at a smaller venue for chicago...the metro. this fucker had like 3 drums, and he just wailed the shit out of them. that was a cluster fuck. great show!!!! punks don't mosh (if that term is even used anymore...i don't know)...they throw down harder...but they will pick a cat up if he's about to die.

anyway...check out some avante gaurd (not my name) balck metal from Europe. anti-christian (not too satanic) pagan shit. they feel christianity watered down their norweigan viking culture. my dying bride, dimuborgir...just go europe black metal. u may or may not like it.

i miss my thrash/punk days. Fun Times!

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

i took a shower did some push ups i'm okay...my mind doesn't have an off switch though...i deal i've learned how it's all good. the show was great as i lay dying played they had awesome energy my only regret is i was too messed up to participate in the wall of death....next time. this summer you should scope out the mayhem fest. it has a decent line up slayer cannibal corpse...old skool stuff...i'm one of the rare ones like dig punk and metal...i love minor threat and rage did a great cover actually. i hate children of bodom i don't understand y people like them they're fags. i like rammstein there from europe...u should check out chimaira and parkway drive they are really good...talent suicide silence and job of a cowboy are hard core too.

as far as jumping off...no way i'm sticking to the plan...i'll be there in like a week anyways...i've already stated my theory and i'm sticking withit and hell it's hard not to just quit [def. masochist] but every time i did i never stuck with it and i'm trying to do something different and i've come pretty damn far so i have a good feeling i'll be done after a couple of weeks.

i am very motivated and i appreciate the sentiment it all helps. i've kicked c/t many times before....but for some reason this is the best way for me w/subs and the feedback i get is positive most people are feeling 100% by day 14 by taking their time. so it's a worthwhile investment.

and i am pretty sure we are around the same age...it's just apart of me....it's real me from when i was younger that addiction could never touch so i always stayed w/the music it's liberating....kinda funny when i first went to NA back in the day they would say it was a trigger to go to shows little did they know that was when i was most sober.....

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

oh and by messed up i mean the fractures and what not....i reread and it sounded sort of bad...job for a cowboy another typo

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

alice in chains is my theme music today though...oh and my man tyler sticks to plan...in the end after all is set up you blow it up and start over....my intentions to the fullest trust and believe me....i'm crazy committed to my convictions and more determined than almost everybody i know....watch that movie w/the comments on it's really quite funny man

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

one of the very best bands ever is tool though.....right in two i can listen to on repeat over and over and over ...tell me your a tool fan any respectable music fan has to be.

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

angels on the sideline,

puzzled and amused

why did father give these humans free will?

now their all confused.

---just his ideologies are great how well there put...no i'm not religious but i have like this filter right so when say somebody says god bless...i hear..have a good day but aside from all that redundancy...really really insightful well at least for me it relates to all the thoughts that float around in my head

i tend to look at the larger pic. first and it helps keep my life and decisions into perspective for instance like when i would kick c/t i would think about vet. over nam kicking that was a bad detox getting shot up blown up all sick marching ....makes me look weak...and when shit hits the fan and i feel overwhelmed i think of other people's realities...i become humble and grateful really quick...i may not believe in god but i am seriously one of the most spiritual people i know when i feel it's deep it's not shallow and i def. don't take that for granted i'm lucky not alot people get to live or look at life the way i do...it's nice to find things to relate to it's not too often i come across it....this is a good topic

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

k well off i go for a wee adventure outside

foreverannie 3 years ago

OK Merchant, you said it, 1 week and NO MORE SUBS. WE are counting down the days-lol. By next Friday, no more SUBS! I'm with Fun Times, you are feeling withdraws right now that you could very well be feeling not taking any. Day 9: I'm just weak. But, get this team, my legs are not restless for the 1st time. I'll take any beating over restless legs!I went to work today and hated every minute of it. But I'm starting to feel more normal. 7 hours of sleep last night!

foreverannie 3 years ago

OK Merchant, you said it, 1 week and NO MORE SUBS. WE are counting down the days-lol. By next Friday, no more SUBS! I'm with Fun Times, you are feeling withdraws right now that you could very well be feeling not taking any. Day 9: I'm just weak. But, get this team, my legs are not restless for the 1st time. I'll take any beating over restless legs!I went to work today and hated every minute of it. But I'm starting to feel more normal. 7 hours of sleep last night!

andrea 3 years ago

I WAS ON SUBOXONE FOR ABOUT 6 MONTHS P-SCRIBED. I LOST MY DOCTOR SO FOR THE PAST YEAR OR SO I'VE BEEN BUYING THEM OFF THE STREET. I'M UP TO ABOUT 16 MG A DAY...ANYWAYZ, I'M CURRENTLY WITHDRAWAL REALLY BAD FROM THEM, AND I DON'T NO WHAT TO DO.IF I WENT TO THE ER WOULD THEY DO ANY THING TO HELP ME?

foreverannie 3 years ago

Andrea,

I know it's tough and I'm glad your on here. I'm not sure what they would do. How long have you been without?

You may want to try finding a rehab center if it gets bad. I am currently 9 days free of subs and it's still a little tough! I feel for you girl.

Fun Times 3 years ago

you know...i need to start this post with something i said earlier. Merchantofdealth mentioned a few things to me in her post. First, let me just say that i have been told that i caome off as hostile at times. Merchant had no incentive to lie...of coursh of course...so i believe i do.

it is important to me that everyone on this site understands something. just as i told Merchant...i intasnt message people, and things are taken the wrong way, by them and me. I've had everything at one time or another misinintrepted...from posts, to cell texts, to IMS, to emails....and sometimes (quite rare) rarer...voicemails. as ive said before...a post is a black and white snapshot of words. veryyy useful. but not a window into the posters soul. or their state of mine, body language (do they think something that they're writing is a joke...like my freud comment...and/or somthing that seem genuinely seems hostile...and if so: DO THEY MEAN TO BE HOSTILE PRICS?).

if i didn't care about you people....i really wouldn't be here. merchant i did get genuinly angry when you called God the tooth fairy, after calling him santa and that stuff. it seemed (and still does) that through my experiences...many recovering addicts...especially new ones (like i condsider many people on this site, myself included, to be)really needed their faith in God to help through what can feel like torture. i just felt like i had to say-listen..quit that merchant...because God is REALLY paramount to some addicts...especially early in recovery.. i will speak my mind..no joking around...when i feel that someone's recovery is jeapordized (by themselves or someone else). i hope everyone understands that,,,cause i'm not changing. I call anything fair game...tell me i'm a fag..call me a bigot or racist...say that bush was a great president (pheww...now i'm really conceding the unthinkable, lol!) BUT IF I SENSE THAT YOU ARE HURTING SOMEONE'S RECOVER I AM GENUINELY HOSTILE. IF I SENSE THAT YOU ARE HURTING YOUR OWN RECOVERY...I WILL BE GENUILNELY CONCERNED. I WON'T BE HOSTILE...BUT I WONT BE JOKING. I MAY NOT ALWAYS BE RIGHT...BUT I FUCK AROUND ALOT...I DO NOT FUCK AROUND AVOUT PEOPLE GETRTING OFF SUBOXONE AND STAYING OFF.

i care for you guys concerning your detox, i really, really do. heroin fucked up my life. now i'm finally free. my coscience demand that i try and help anyone i think i can get to beopiate fee. the words i use i posts about that in my posts all have good intentions toward someone detoxing. just take that for what its worth . fuck the rest of what i say..its small talk.

Merchant of death...i really loved the various definitions and deper meanings of hubis..not the current americam "arrogant/condescening" definition. i may think im smart..ive been told it throughout my life, in various ways...someyimes by people i consider to be very importannt. i always tested very, very well. but i wasn't smart enough to not become a dope adicct. as i've said...i measure intellgence in my own way .but reading the ancient meaning and my "sorry laies" post...it seemed like so many of my remarks were geting twisted (noone's fault...except quite possibly mine) that i was doing more harm than good. and i never every want o mess with anone's detox/recovery. in the classic sense at leasrt toward you i had no hubris. i wasn't being condescending. i consider you my intellectual equal. maybe you're smarter...maybe i am. i was trying to be encouraging, sometimes people don't know just how gifted they really are. thats all. i wante to make sure you knew...if it inspired u 1 crumb...i wanted u too know, i was being honest. Also...after looking at your posts i can tell another thing...you likely have way more responsiblity. i live alone. never been married. no kids. stable job. you're in the fucing army, with children, cracked ribs and kicking, and you are job hunting. my life is a breeze compared to that. No wife..no kids...no military duty ( i was marked PMD 'permamnent milltary disqualification whe i enlisted in the ariforce before i even got my high school diploma...because i had some surgical operations ate age 11 0r 12...i applaude anyone in por military for their service. Thank you for preserving my loved ones and my freedom merchantof death) you are strong lady. fuck you are srong!

Foreverannie...whether you know it or not...you said the sweetest thing anyone can possibly say to me on or off this site. you said i really really helped at one point of your detox. and your a 4 year member, like me. u don't know how good of a feeling. i feel hearing anybody tell me i helped them get and/or stay clean. Thank you so much. that's the one thing anyone on this site can say to me that really means anything. otherwise i'd already be off this site.

i am here to have a little fun (like meeting some wonderful people,,,like Merchant, Queenie (even though from a silly text we stopped taliking..if you're out there queenie...if it would have been a converrsation we'd still be texting, talikng, and laughng...i gotta at least see if we can be cool), and now you forverannie.

I just bouhgt a new computer and am breaking it in with this post. lol. fuck...is it magna carta length..or longer? me email/im is garysloane@att.net. if anyone i've spoken/posted with wants to get in touch with me...i would like that alot. merchant...i really hope you do. you too Queenie (of course), K-, Dustybug, Subfreechickadee (with out hubris on my part...you seem very interesting) and Foreverannie (you really made my day the other day...i know these can be really ruff times..id love nothing more to try and help you in anyway i can). just send me an invite if any of you want to talk, joke around (Queenie) or have a discussion (cmon Merhant) i am hoping we get the chance. it would mean alot to me.

as for your plan merchant...im kinda split. u seem to be doing it so well and meticulosly...that why fuck up something that is working so good. Forverannie...i really get your argument. it seemed to just take a lot of the stress any obession away whe i flushed the rest of my oills. it caused me undo anxiety...i felt like i was really relieved when i was on zeo. sure...it was uncomfortable. in favor of your idea foreverannie...it seems common knowledge among my friends that the easiest heroin kick is in jail...b/c you mind doesn't consider heroin anymore...cause there aint any...and they say that helped so much. merchant... i know u have already thought this out and are gonna do what u are gonna do. in favor of yor plan i can oly say "hey...you kicked cold before...it didn't work...this is working...so keep it uo girl"! Another bonus...i quit using H 7 years ago at least. subs never got me high. the longer u are off the drugs that got u to subs...the more u forget them. the only thing i remeber about H is it made me comfy and sleepy...and made me wake up every morning vomiting bile, made me cat insane, cost me money and relationships, and desroyed my mind. and almost got me killed and impriosned daily. ohhh...i i did get the occassional euphoria and plan something brilliant that i never did, cause i woke uomsick the next day.

be good everyone. garysloane@att.net. say hi if u want to. it would be very cool to chat with you guys.i hope i can. later.

take care gang. stay strong...mentall

it would be cool to me if everyone understands what is in my heart: i scrw around at times on this site. sometimes i forget that you guys have not persoannly known me for many yeras...and if i tell me friend..."hey...that is some thinking. quit it jackass"...i will be met with either "really...why the fuck did you say that" (actually is curios), or a "fuck you / whatever )not so curious at the moment, a laugh, or silence, and the conversation will proceed all cool. i only keep a few friends by choice...i just don't find that many people intetesting.

Fun Times 3 years ago

my post was disjointed. i spell meticulously at work, wow my spelling sucks on this site. paragraph form or not...it becomes a sTream of consioussness. many of the words ending in "o" really end in "p", i'm only one space away! but i hate reading the grammatical errors i write down. simple spelling. leaving entire phonetic parts off of words. sounds so retarted. ahhh well. it could be worse. stay strong mentally gang. i'm proud of all of you. be proud of youselves...please. you know u are all doing some hardcore stuff. in your most painful or boring moments..remember that. you're doing ALL YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO...SHIT U DREAMED ABOUT FOR YEARS. DO NOT FORGET THAT,,,please don't. think of all the times you wanted kick in your life, now you are, ;) be proud!

Fun Times 3 years ago

ohhhhhh. i forgot to give a special conratulations to foreverannie. made it through work on zero. IF THERE WAS EVER A WEEKEND were i was your husband i would give u a big LONG kiss (and you know where too! c'mon man...help the lady out already)! How about an Alaskan Waffle. mmmmnnnn. I forgor....in addition to trytophan, chocolate, and sex is Ben & Jery's, Dove Bars, and Haagen Dass.

And husbands much watch the kids today. PERIOD. me, personally, I would let all you women curl up on the couch...rent her a couple dvds (tropic thunder, forgetting sarah marshall, something about mary, pineapple express, something FUNNY)....and massage her with a nice oil/lotion...and give her the sweetest "kiss" for each and every bj they ever got in their life! That's the deal dudes (men). if you want your wife or g/f healthy...if u EVER wanna get laid again...this is the ladies weekend. DEAL WITH IT...AND DO THIS STUFF WITH A SMILE...BECAUSE YOU SHOULD ACTUALLY LOVE THIS WOMAN...SO ACT LIKE IT...ESPECIALLY DUDES NOT KICIKING...C'MON...SHOW YOUR WOMAN HOW PROUD YOU ARE AND HOW MUCH YOU LOVE HER.

TAKE IT FROM ME GUYS...THIS IS A CLASS A SON OF A BITCH. A CROSS BETWEEN A HANGOVER, FOOD POISONING, POISON IVY, THE MOTHER IN LAW VISTING FOR A MONTH, THE WORST FLU U EVER HAD, AND A SLIPPED DISK. TELL ME I'M LYING. CAN U REALLY JUST LET HER SUFFER LIKE THAT. GO GET BREAKFAST. HOW WOULD SHE TREAT YOU? I SWEAR..LEAVE HER STRANDED THIS WEEKEND AND WATCH...SHE'S GONNA START LOOKING SUPER HOT (LOSING WEIGHT, GETTING SUN, EATING HEALTHY, EXCERCISING, AND STRUTTIG AROUND ALL SEXY...NOW THAT HER LIIBIDO WILL BE GOING TROUGH THE ROOF FOR LIKE 6 MONTHS) so men do everything i said (ladies..telll them thats the deal, period), and give your women a well desreved break,

and ladies, very sweetly lay down law, if your husband can't read this post...explain to hi exactly what you require. His payoff is a clear headed sweet wife (with a super libido) whe the kick is over and tou are 100% again. Then he'll be happy he listened, loved, supported, and helped you during a crucial time in your life!

foreverannie 3 years ago

How can I go from having a decent day to the worst freaking night of my life!!!! NO SLEEP, achy muscles, blah, blah. I actually started feeling sorry for myself last nigh- something I swore I wouldn't do. My husband is at work (he's on call 24/7) and it took everything out of me to take care of my baby.

I am soooo ready to give in today guys or am thinking about going to rehab. My mind is raising......

School will be out in less than a months, so I will have the summer off.

queenie 3 years ago

Andrea, most likely they will not give you what you are looking for. The normal protocol for addicts in ER is saline drip and monitor B/P through W/D. After being stabilized you will have a psychiatrist do an eval. If your not ready to kick why dont you find another Dr. to write for you? Hi to everyone else

queenie 3 years ago

ps. everyone, if for some reason we cant meet on this site lets meet on the other sub site with the face . It has only 3 comments.....k?

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

Most Important First: ForeverAnnie.... don't give in!!!! It's no sleep... it makes it so much worst... I did that on night 12, and day 13 I was crying all day, suicidal... it was horrible... I felt the exact same way you do now... I checked out several rehabs, and no one would take me on suboxone... they said I had to be 7 days without, and I had to have something else in my system when I came in... but they also admitted that suboxone wasn't on the drug test... I know there are some out there that will take you though... but the ones I called only gave anti-nausea & anti-diarrhea & sleep medicine for a week and that's it.... we prefer the comfort of our home, but I've never been to rehab either so... I just wanted you to know that you will probably get some kind of sleep tonight - lots of people say you have to sleep when you can, even if it's only a couple of hours at a time... but you will probably feel better tomorrow if you can hang in there girl.... we've all been there, done this... you're just wore down today because of no sleep I believe... I only got 4 hours sleep last night - 2 and 2 with several up hours inbetween, and that was with Ambien, and I know what a bitch it is... but it will get better... like FunTimes said, you will have good days and bad days... I really, really hope you can hang in... I feel for you so much right now... you've had a wonderful attitude so far, but it is normal I believe to break down after so long, especially after no sleep... I also don't want you to get discouraged by me still not sleeping on night 28 because once you get to this point, you can deal with that... there are more good days than bad, and it will be over soon is what I keep telling myself.....

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

Now... Funtimes, I did not post yesterday even though I read everything because I was offended, I thought about never writing again because my first reaction was that you attacked me, and I thought it was VERY counter-productive to my recovery.... and Merchant hit it right on the head, it made me not want to say shit else about anything else, PERIOD. That said, I read everything else, thought about it, and it's cool. I understand. And I think Merchant is smarter than you...LOL... thanks Merchant for everything you said, I was thinking everything you said, you were exactly right... I appreciate it... you really are an awesome person, and one hell of a fighter.... I care about everyone on here as well, and I was just trying to make small talk... but sub recovery is the most important thing... I put my whole life on here... and it helped, and that is something I normally wouldn't do... and I thank everyone for listening, and I'm sorry if it was boring or too much info or whatever, but it was theraputic for me, and I encourage other people to talk about whatever they want... I'll read it... LOL.... sorry, guys, I've just been very emotional - worried because I am running out of Ambien (not like it helps much anyway anymore), I'm on my last pack of cigs, and I loaned all my money to a friend that was suppose to pay it back yesterday (I don't get paid until next month), and I had a really bad day yesterday physically - oh the pain, why is it still around??? The anxiety yesterday.... what the hell man? My jaws hurt from gritting my teeth, chewing on my tounge... fuck my mouth hasn't even been bothering me this whole entire time.... and on day 28 it starts? And I'm still doing it today.... I took over one of my husband's symptoms, what the fuck? I'm just pissed... ANYWAY... doing better today Merchant? Today is day 5 huh... on .25 - should be leveling out... Hey Queenie nice to hear from you... Day 29..... will this ever end?? Shouldn't complain, I know... anyone got any tips for quitting smoking? Thanks y'all...

queenie 3 years ago

foreverannie, dont give up! You will have good days and bad for a month. Two weeks until i started turning the corner( i documented everyday on this site). This is when you must dig deep down and be strong. You are stronger than that orange pill. I did have a 10mg methadone pill that i broke in teeny, tiny pieces and when i could take no more and felt i was going crazy i would take .5 or 1mg . It was just enough that i could exhale. I did this maybe 4 or 5 times during the first 2 weeks. After two weeks i still had half the pill left. From that point on i was balls to the wall! I dont think anyone will condemn you for whatever you do.At least not on this site.

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

I've also had a cold for 4 days now...

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

Foreverannie: don't let my rants get you down, it does get A LOT BETTER after two weeks... hang in there!!!! Keep us updated, let it all out...

foreverannie 3 years ago

Thanks guys, I haven't gave in yet although I have opportunities. I just think I can handle another sleepless night. I am manic waiting on my husband to come home. Maybe I can try to take a nap when he gets here. Last night sucked. Every night sucks- days are better. I just worry about not taking care of my to children properly. It's not their fault that I'm an idiot.

Queenie are you sleeping yet.

Whats the link to the other website.

foreverannie 3 years ago

Thanks guys, I haven't gave in yet although I have opportunities. I just think I can handle another sleepless night. I am manic waiting on my husband to come home. Maybe I can try to take a nap when he gets here. Last night sucked. Every night sucks- days are better. I just worry about not taking care of my to children properly. It's not their fault that I'm an idiot.

Queenie are you sleeping yet.

Whats the link to the other website.

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

I just wanted to say that it has been a lot better for my husband... for about the last week he was sleeping about 7 or 8 hours..... we just had a bad past two nights for some reason... I dunno... yes, definitely try to take a nap.... good luck...

Fun Times 3 years ago

c'mon foreverannie. its easy to say but its what i did. adjust your expectations. this really aint supposed to be fun. u may go awhile without sleeping. u kinda gotta say..ok..this aint fun...but i can swing it. i can deal with a little misery. it goes away. now i will say this: anxiety sucks. can't you get some valium or xanax. they're just benzos and will take the edge right off.

Fun Times 3 years ago

ohhhh yeah. subfreechickadeee...i owe u an apology as well. and i mean it. i forget a few things...u guys don't know me (my friends would ignore me or tell to to get fucked)...i'm just gonna let you women talk (that's the other thing...i swear alot and talk like a guy in bar...good intentions or not).

foreverannie..i'm sure i offended you too..i had to ;) I am sorry. be good girls.

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

I swear a lot too, hope it's not offending... Funtimes, I didn't wanna lie about how I felt when I read it, but it's really ok... don't feel bad about it, I understand where you're coming from & you've explained how you are and think so I didn't mean to make you regret anything you said, you are who you are... I think you're funny, witty, and you've helped me & everyone else.... it was just my first reaction to get offended, that's why I didn't write, so I wouldn't say anything I would regret... what I meant to say earlier was I'M COOL - I get ya, and would miss ya if you went away.... I shouldn't have said anything, I feel bad now... dammit (Texas talk) LOL... you were here before me... I don't want to hinder you helping anyone.... I'm sorry for what I said, that was low of me because I know you weren't trying to be mean - IT'S ALL GOOD, really!!

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

Say what you want to say, when you want to say it

Fun Times 3 years ago

subfreeckadee...all is well. that was sweet of you. i'm particulary proud of you. you've actually kicked. that's great. we're al addicts. we all operate on impulse. we all have to learn to change that...at least i do.

and i think we are caring sensitive people. i am used a ruffer sense of humor than women have...so i'll be mindful of that. and please...never worry about hurting my feelings. that would be difficult for anyone to do. i've already hurt myself more than anyone could. i kind am unphaseable. on things that does phase me is if i am hurtful to others. that offends my conscience. i'm always hopeful i can help. i would wholeheartedly agree that merchant is wayyyy smarter than me...but I'm on to that one...hubris was punishable by death in ancient greece. it's a fucking requirement to be an american it seems. lol. i'll be mindful that i am talking to women, tis isn't bar, we're here for a somewhat common person...but u've never met me nor I you. i think we'd all like each other. i honestly do.

foreverannie...you were just telling merchant to QUIT altogather. she is being really hard and sensible. understand that your emotions are in a state of "confusion?...for lack of a better word" try and inhale exhale, and be cool. you'll be parent of the year off subs. i'd aim for giving your baby that. your gonna be fine. opiates cause sleep (morphine=morpheous=god of sleep). remember homer's army crashing in that poppy field. so now..no opiates..no sleep. it's natural. ur body will adjust. c'mon...forget thinking if u can...just keep existing...set the bar low...let days pass, and all will be well.

queenie 3 years ago

yes im sleeping and have been for at least a couple weeks. i also work 12hr shifts, that helps me sleep but when i first went back to work(week 3) i was not sleeping much. The other site is just another hub. Just google suboxone hub and you will see it. Its a wierd face that almost looks plastic. It says 3 comments. Fun Times you sound passive-aggresive on here and i see you have a way with the ladies.....eh!? Your alright in my book kid and your rants crack me up (i sound like a guy in a bar) lmfao!

Fun Times 3 years ago

as long as Queenie likes me all is well. ohhh yeah...thanks...i was just born charming. it's one of those blessings that God gave me...like i said before...more of a curse than anything. [that my a inside joke between me and sexy Queenie....so i politely ask that nobody condemn me for it. I cannot help being born handsome and witty and charming...oohhhkay...it's my cross to bear!].

imfao=in my fucking absolute opinion?

and thank you again for calling me passive aggressive. in my imagination that's a step up from hostile ;)

Fun Times 3 years ago

where the fuck did i learn how to type? land of the retards. oooohkay! once more: {that WAS my inside joke between me and sexy Queenie}

(until i pissed her off one night and had to beg for forgiveness. no shit Annie- i hope ur not next. lol.)

Queenie...i know u weren't being sarcastic about my way with women. right? i di i did tell them they all desired a day full of unilateral sexual favors from their boyfriends/husbands (time to call in those bjs ladies). And while its true that all but one has at one point detested me.....they still take me back.

why...b/c they know i truly care. i maintain i am not trying to get laid on this site...there are better ways to go about that. this is a for real kicking suboxone sucks so help each other site to me. there.

Fun Times 3 years ago

fuck it...last try: " i di i did tell them they all desired a day full of unilateral sexual favors from their boyfriends/husbands: should read:

I DID TELL THEM THAT THEY ALL DESERVED A DAY OF UNILATERAL SEXUAL FAVORS FROM THEIR BOYFRIENDS/HUSBANDS. geeze

foreverannie 3 years ago

OK, so I'm fine now. Your right, I'm just a nut case, but I'm only 9 days and balancing a career, two kids, and much more. I'm just thinking about how I'm going to do it all. I'm a teacher!

So my husband comes home at 1:33 and I instantly feel better. My vulternability is getting the best of me I think. I used to be a strong- willed, independent woman, with over 12 years of college under my belt and I get my a** kicked by pain pills. Thank you all for helping me understand my addiction...I haven't untill now or have been in complete denial

OK, so what do you guys think about Tramadone and Clonipine. My mother offered my some, but I don't want to pick up a new addiction

Fun Times 3 years ago

First a joke: 12 years in college. wow. i got a bba and j.d. in seven. you must have been on a decelerated program. lol. just kidding...but u better have a phd lady.

Seriously: Run and get the Clonipine faster than a speeding bullet. just don't gring and sniff them like i used to. Honestly Annie...i'm not as silly as i sound. it takes weeks if not much longer to build up a sincere benzo addiction. i have no experience w/tramadol. benzo's (and clonipine is like valium...not like it's evil brother Xanax)...i highly recommend u STAYING OFF SUBS AND OPIATES AND HIGHLY RECOMMEND GETTING THE CLONIPINE. just swallow 'em...you'll be fine. and yes i am a doctor. juris doctor. so bear that in mind. go girl!

foreverannie 3 years ago

Lost story about mmy education..it's not that I'm was a bad student that kept flunking out, I just did different things Masters in Secondary Ed and Masters in Special ED, plus 2 year PHD, not finished. I am slowly doing my dissertation in my classroom. Although I did do 2 years of fieldwork experience with At Risk Youth, we decided to publish our ethnography (university sponsered program), so it can't be credited as dissertation work at my university.

Anyway, about my crappy addiction, I also bought 7 day Detox OTC and L Gaurantine, and some type of pain relief bath- so I have more battle weapons- lol.

Fun Times,

you don't offend me. Have you noticed than I intentionally ignore some of your comments? lol. I try not to get caught up in drama. Maybe in a couple of weeks when I feel like giving you a piece of my mind, we'll do battle

Fun Times 3 years ago

i appreciate u ignoring me. lol. u are one of the kinder souls on the site.

what's drama to ladies really is funny to me. in a couple weeks...if i'm still alive...i welcome the summer of your discontent with me. i don't battle women though. don't even argue (verbally) with them. i hit guys that hit women. gosh...i really am cool to every girl i meet. hell...i've never even cheated on a girl i dated. i just haven't met anyone on this site. as i've said...i have to remind myself...this isn't cyberworld...these are real people.

it's been hard ever since that nigerian dude tricked me with phony photos on match.com. lol.

foreverannie 3 years ago

I heard that happens to te best of your kind...

So will the Clonopines help me sleep tonight. THey better or I'm blaming it on u!

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

I wouldn't touch the tramadol..... it works differently than opiates, but me & hubbie were addicted to them, and it didn't take that long... we were ordering 1,000 at a time because it was cheap to do that & taking 20+ a day - I'm not saying taking a couple here and there would get you addicted, but it won't help you sleep - never made us sleepy or anything, not strong enough - Are we talking about Klonopin or Clonidine? our doc gave us Clonidine (not pin) when we were tapering down - made us feel messed up in the head, and did not help us sleep.... took it once and never again, but we were still on subs... it's a freaking high blood pressure medicine, and it did make us drowsy, and it is suppose to help with withdrawals, I dunno... I did take valium for two nights during the first week, and they helped me sleep SO WELL... I don't think the Klonopin would hurt you - I, personally, wouldn't take it every night or anything... just when I couldn't take it anymore, probably will help you sleep, but I haven't taken any... benzos do help you sleep though... I'm proud of you for hanging in there....... my work is online, on my own time, so I couldn't imagine having to juggle all that... like I said before, I have someone to watch my children 24/7 also so damn I feel like a wuss compared to you and Merchant... can I just add in here that I didn't finish college, but I do have business smarts.... hehe... me and my husband did have our own business with several employees, and a huge warehouse... we bought baby items, electronics, toys, all kinds of shit wholesale & resold them - we were living the high life, and a $200 a day habit took that all away... ruined us... so I'll be the first to admit, I'm not as educated as everyone on here... I missed so much college because of my daughter being in the hospital, then having to go to Houston all the time, I finished out my second year, barely and never went back. Sucks....... I regret it..... but anyways, just had to put that out there - y'all make me feel inadequate...LOL... but in a good way, if that makes any sense??? Funtimes, I took what you said wrong - since you tried to say bye once before, I thought you were saying you were just going to let us girls talk - like you weren't going to anymore... but now I realize what you meant, but anyway... everyone loves you on here, you're fucking awesome.... and I'm not being sarcastic.... you sound like a good catch, why aren't you taken? Never cheated on a woman? DAMN.... smarts and loyal... was it the drugs? Just curious...

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

Also what's weird is, the pills actually made us quit working - that's how we lost everything.... time took over and eventually money ran out right in front of us, lost everything one by one, and it didn't even phase us... damn pills are evil... hehe

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

OH - I came face to face with hydro today, and I was very pleased that I actually became physically nauceous at the thought of taking one... it was a test.... I passed, and I'm pleased...

foreverannie 3 years ago

Sub Free,

Klonopin is what I got. I am definately taking one tonight. Thanks for the advice girl. Yeah, you are definately lucky to have someone watch your child. I'm sure that takes a load off your mind. My daughters family lives around here, but my husband (thefather of my 2 year old) family lives in MA. I'm one that feels a little unease to be away from my kids, especially the baby for any amount of time even though I'm sure it would be us good from time to time. Your such a nice, caring person. I can definately tell. I can't wait to get to where your at with your recovery.

Just a few side notes:

I haven't considered myself extremely smart, just ambitious and devoted (before my habit). I used to love what I did (before my habit) and couldn't wait to get to work to see my group.

The past few years I took some time off as a high school teacher, became a stay at home mom, and worked on an advanced degree to keep my mind straight because I hated myself so much.

Now I'm returning to the classroom, teaching something different, and I just want to love what I do again.

I took the Tramadol bf I read your post. It did stop my legs from cramping, but I didn't know it was that addictive, even from other stuff I read. I'm glad you shared your 1st hand experience. I just figured if I could get my legs to stop and take a Klonopin for sleep- just one good night then maybe that will speed my recovery.

I tend to be impulsive ;)

foreverannie 3 years ago

By the way...my husband told me that he loved me more now than ever and I was much nicer now. Geez, that type of comparison makes me think I must have been a major b*tch before.lol

Fun Times 3 years ago

a couple of thoughts:

seriously-that's a nice post foreverannie. that's very nice of your husband to do.

kinda joking-tell him talk is cheap and he better get busy! ps. from one junkie to another...let it out lady...say BITCH! lol.

subfrechickadee-as much as i loved women...sniff....i loved heroin more. really- it didn't not seem fair to any girl i dated to wind up married to an addict like me. they were good girls. i was bad. hence...i'm single. hold back your tears though...i have recentlt accepted that i really got to try and date women over 23...so i have a chance. i shall keep u all posted on the very intimate details of my quest for one true love.

Foreverannie-i'm glad u got the Clonopin. Now i'm gonna give u my address...hahahaha. Really, take 2 before sleeping. one aint enough to knock u out...although u can give it a try. i can't even say they will knock u out...they may...but they will certainly do what they were designed to do: take the edge of your anxiety...day or night. i bet a pint of ben and jerry's will knock u out.

Fun Times 3 years ago

Foreverannie-why did you hate yourself. I'm curious...no joke.

Subfrechick-drugs are like that. at first use you become superhuman. once the thrill is gone u become subhuman (even animals a knack for self-prersevation...i lost that at the end).

do tell foreverannie. you seem very nice. why would u hate yourslf?

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

Annie: if Tramadol took the leg pain away, then a little won't hurt to get you through... just be cautious.... I just had to say something about it... me and my husband used to joke in the beginning of kicking, what if we don't like each other sober??? LOL... we don't remember what we use to be like... I have three kids, and I am with them every day... we're staying with my in-laws to get through the withdrawals, but I do have the luxury of kind of "living" downstairs while they live upstairs right now, and it's hard - I feel bad not caring for them how I should right now, but I know it's for their own good, I couldn't take care of them properly right now... I'm on edge, no energy, and all that... You're absolutely right FunTimes, you need to date women over 23... hehe...also, my hubbie wants to know when you got your full energy back??

Fun Times 3 years ago

I would tell your husband that I have energy when I need it...after about 2.5 weeks. This week, after working hard all week...my body hit the floor Friday night after work and I woke up at 1pm. But I was cool at work.

I actually lifted free-weights through my kick. I could summon 20 minutes of energy early on. after 2 .5 weeks...i was a madman at work. After 25 days it's purely a matter of motivation. I could sleep 18 hours after over 100 days. Or workout. It really is all in my head. The cool thing is...your body is like a videogame. Point, click...and your body will move. I'd advise freeweight. The lethargy lasts awhile...unfortunately. so be motivated.

queenie 3 years ago

subfreechickadee, gosh, couldnt you have picked a shorter name? lol. Just wanted to tell you i started getting energy back around 6 weeks but i pushed myself from 3 weeks on. You are truly blessed to have in-laws like that. Can you imagine trying to do this with that stress? OMG. I cant believe Fun Times is telling you guys to call in those BJ's. That is so off the wall. i appreciate that kinda inappropriate humor!

Fun Times 3 years ago

how is everybody doing?

foeverannie...are u ok?

subfreechicakdee...are u ok?

mercantofdeath...are u ok?

everyone else...are u all ok?

i finally got my new computer. I'd really like to chat with you merchantofdeath, as ive said before. we can talk philiosophy, punk, metal, u name it. i hope u are cool. i really do.

I know we all rant...of course i do...but this site really helped me...even after being off subs for 72 days, I do have some kind of PAWS to thsi day that are very real. i slept eighteen hours yesterday, (and slightly crashed my car soon after leaving my house...yeah...fun times). I had no motivation or energy this weekend. really no motivation at all. but I called a friend in Recovery...my best friend since i was 7 (32 years ago), we hung out, i called Queenie, we had a great and fun conversation...and i know i always get in trouble for doing this...but i want to say that even if she and i joke around a little...and it carries over to this site...she is the best. she is in the medical field. she is really really smart and caring...and i will continue to thank her for all her help. i have read her posts where she helps others. she seems to have maternal caring instincts to help others...she helps others with medical issues for her life. Queenie...thank you for helping me. it mattered and still matters more than u know.

i believe in all of you. please get well.

Fun Times 3 years ago

just to clarify...i got on this site after being off subs 72 days. its 100 and something now (January 8, 2009...my last sub)...and i still feel it. i thank God for NA and Recovering Addicts who have helped me. And I'm glad merchantofdeath described PAWS...b/c at least now I know that I'm going through what others have before me...and I'm not freaked out or worried about it. I say God...others call it spirituality, willpower...your choice...but God has given me enough energy to do what I need to do...like go to work and hit my NA meetings EVERY DAY. my body might still hit the floor after over 100 plus clean days when i get home...but i do not pickup drugs...i do not even think about it...and i do not have dope dreams. I do believe that the therapeutic value of one addict helping another is without parallel. that's one reason i visit this site.

foreverannie 3 years ago

Day 10:

Guys and Gals I slept 10 hours last night taking one Clonopin. DAre I say that I feeel great- better than 5 years ago. I've also been doing that 7 day detox/ cleansing (or a massive amount of horse pills). We Went shopiing today, bought matching Hollister tops for the whole family (lol), bought my baby birthday stuff (he'll be 2 May 3) and I was also trying on stuff myself- although losing my detox pounds makes me insecure. I was happy before.

Something else I noticed, my face, hands and feet are not swollen as when I was taking my subs and I'm not as aggravated with my husband as I have been for years.

Anyways, Fun Times, the reason I hated myself then was that I was teaching full time and not enjoying my career. Since I was 3, I wanted to be a teacher and I couldn't believe I was dreading going in everyday. I now realize it was the subs and not me. I did alot of soul searching and I guess I was unable to comeup with answers.

Let me tell everyone how I ended up on the stuff and maybe you'll understand:

I was given Vicodin 10s for my teeth after having 4 wisdome teethcut out- 2 1/2 week supply. After the time was up, my stiches became infected and I was still in pain. I happened to mention it to my neightbor who brought me over percs I think. I was naive, didn't realize it was addictice.

Then I ended up dating my neighbor to keep getting percs. Hmm, wonder if he had different motivation? Still, I didn't think I would become addicted. I would tell people that I can't get addicted to anything. Hell, I could smoke a pack of cigs for a month and just stop be done. Or go out drinking, then just stop.

So I went to my doctor told him that I had been taking pain meds for a couple of months (maybe one or two percs a day- not alot at all) and when I stopped, I had a headahe. His suggestion was to start Subs (3 8 milligrams a day!). I didn't know they were addictive. He told me they were not. During a monthly visit, I told him that I didn't feel depressed. He said that I may need to take them for the rest of my life. I trusted our family doctor, now I was to kick butt for taking my life from me.

You see for the 1st year or so, sub was great. I felt happy and energetic. After a year, they start to break you to the point that you fall into survival mode and ignore the beauty of life.

By the I got rid or my crazy next door neighbor and as if fate stepped in, I met my husband, who is a good hard working man andhad his son.

So there's my background... Anyone on myspace?.

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

Queenie, shorten the name however you want, I don't care... it is long, isn't it... that was the first thing that came to mind, I was in a silly mood - it is VERY hard to let go and let my in-laws parent my children for this long... we don't exactly see eye to eye on things which makes it worse, but I just keep telling myself, I have to get well, and I will be a better parent for it... my poor little girl... she's turning 6 in June, and I've been on some kind of pills practically since she was born... I freaking suck... Anyway, damn Annie - that SUCKS... what the hell is wrong with doctors - I know mine only had to take an 8 hour course to start prescribing suboxone... she doesn't know much about it, and she told me the same thing - it's not addictive.... no problem quitting... doctors don't realize how much we trust them... I noticed the same thing about my fingers and hands, and I've lost 20 lbs like everyone else... I never felt happy or energetic on subs... neither did my husband... but you were taking a lot more than me as well... I was only taking it once a day for a while... I'm so glad you're doing good today, and it's great you got some sleep... shopping? WOW... aren't you glad you didn't give in? Keep looking up... i have more 2 talk about, but I have to go for now more later

Fun Times 3 years ago

Foreverannie...once again...you've helped make my day. First things first- i am not kidding around AT ALL in this particular post...no sarcasm...i mean what i say...and have only good, thought out...intentions for you foreverannie.

I am sooooo glad that you got sleep you desperately needed. FOREVERANNIE, I SWEAR ON MY FATHER'S SOUL, THAT TAKING ONE KLONOPIN IS A VERRRRRRRY INNOCENT THING. I DO NOT ADVISE THAT ANYONE TAKE DRUGS, LET ME BE CLEAR!!! BUT I HAVE TAKEN KLONIPIN...I ABUSED IT LIKE OTHER SUBSTANCES...BUT I KNOW FROM EXPERIENCE THAT IF YOU TOOK ONE A DAY FOR A WEEK...IF YOU NEEDED TO...THERE WOULD BE ZERO WITHDRAWALS FROM KLONIPIN. I SAID 1 WEEK. ITS NOT AN OPIATE. DONT TAKE MY WORD FOR IT...CALL A PROFESSIONAL IF YOU WANT A SECOND OPINION. ASK THEM HOW HARD IT WILL BE TO QUIT TAKING KLONIPIN AFTER TAKING 1 PILL FOR 1 WEEK, GET A SECOND OPINION IF YOU WISH.

I AM WRITING IN BIG LETTERS B/C THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT TO ME. THE OTHER DAY YOU WERE CONSIDERING USING SUBS. DO NOT EVER, EVER DO THAT! NEVER! BUT IF TAKING 1 SINGLE KLONIPIN WILL HELP SAVE YOUR LIFE...JUST FOR A WEEK...NOT 8 DAYS...IF NEEDED...I IMPLORE YOU FOREVERANNIE...PLEASE DO IT AND THANK GOD...AND FEEL LIKE YOU WERE BLESSED. MOST OF ALL: DO IT GUILT FREE AND WORRY FREE. I SWEAR A PILL A DAY FOR NO MORE THAN A WEEK IS 100% SAFE. i never took tramadol...thus i have no advise about that.

I'm sure we will never meet...but i do care for you. I can empathise with you...and that connection is enough to make me care. That said: I can scarcely fathom the innocence of your story. i am not being dramatic. i have never heard of a more innocently "intended" addiction than yours. I did Heroin for fun. I thought it was cool. I didn't take it for pain. I took it to get high. I was a piece of shit.

You had legitimate pain issues. someone officiously brought you a fairly potent pain killer. you weren't seeking drugs. my God...you only used one or two a day. you weren't using them as a big joke for fun. and the most incredible part of this story: SOME MOTHERFUCKING DOCTOR PUTS YOU ON ENOUGH SUBOXONE TO SATISFY 3 LIFELONG HEROIN SHOOTERS! THAT MOTHERFUCKER...YEAH...NOW I'M MAD. FOREVERANNIE...I WOULD BE THRILLED TO TYPE UP A LEGAL COMPLAINT AGAINST HIM (YOU REPRESENT YOURSELF...PRO SE...FOR FREE) FOR MEDICAL MALPRACTICE, INFLICTION OF EMOTIONAL DISTRESS, NEGLIGENCE, BREACH OF CONTRACT (WRITTEN OR VERBAL...HE VIOLATED AN IMPLICIT DOCTOR-PATIENT AGREEMENT-TO ACT IN YOUR BEST INTEREST), AND THOSE ARE OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD..AND I COULD STILL GO ON. I WOULD OF COURSE TECHNICALLY BE HELPING YOU...I AM NOT CURRENTLY PRACTISING LAW...BUT I CAN GIVE ANYONE IN THE WORLD MY OPINION, HELP (WITHIN CERTAIN PARAMETERS, WHICH I KNOW), AND ASSISTANCE FOR FREE. LET ME REPEAT...I WOULD LOVE TO HELP YOU.

i dont go walking around telling people to sue other people. in fact, i am appalled at how ridiculosly litigous our nation is. THAT SAID-THIS FUCKING DOCTOR SCREWED YOU OVER SO BAD I CANNOT FUCKING BELIEVE IT!!!! HE FUCKED YOUR LIFE UP ANNIE! IGNORANCE OF THE LAW...OR IGNORANCE OF APPROPRIATE MEDICAL PROTOCOLS/APPROPRIATE MEDICAL ADVICE-IS NOT AN EXCUSE, REASON, DEFENSE, OR ACT THAT ABSOLVES ONE OF THEIR CRIME OR CIVIL LIABILITY.

God i'm angry. 24 milligrams of suboxone will fuck up ANYBODY'S LIFE. PERIOD! HE FUCKED UP YOUR LIFE AND IT DISGUSTS ME. IF IT WERE ME: I DO NOT THINK I WOULD REPORT HIM TO YOUR STATES MEDICAL BOARD...UNTIL I WON MY LAWSUIT. THEY WILL TAKE YOU MUCH MORE SERIOUSLY THEN, BELIEVE ME. THEN YOU CAN STOP HIM FROM EVER DOING THIS TO ANYONE AGAIN. i don't care if he's the nicest guy in the world. i don't care. he has almost destroyed your life...don't allow him to keep doing this to even 1 single person. you can't. someone could have saved you.

i am thinking very clearly right now. trust me in that. this is not a rant. i mean every word and i am choosing my words carefully. this is how I would deal with your situation, if what you said happened to me.

First...you have my email address. garysloane@att.net. USE IT!!!!! any help i give you will always be free...by law i couldn't charge anyone anything if i wanted...i'm not practicing now...but will be soon. i still wouldn't want anything from you ever...except to stop this doctor from his unfathomably insidious practices. Email me and we'll talk.

Never threaten to sue the doctor. it is always so much better when the sheriff SERVES him/her with your Complaint and he realizes...i have been sued...if i don't appear in court within 30 days...WITH MY LEGAL ANSWER TO THE COMPLAINT...I WILL BE IN DEFAULT AND LOSE THIS CASE...AND FOREVERANNIE WILL HAVE A DEFAULT JUDGMENT ENTERED IN HER FAVOR AGAINST ME. he will be sicker than you...i promise you that foreverannie. Now I will brag, but its 100% true: I know from experience. Nobody likes getting sued. Not even me. But I mean this as much as I can mean anything: NOBODY WANTS TO GET HIT WITH A COMPLAINT THAT FUN TIMES (HELPED/ADVISED ON...CMA) PREPARED. REREAD THAT TEN TIMES. MY LAWSCHOOL JUST SUED ME FOR A MISUNDERSTANDING. AS OF TODAY: THEY SUED ME FOR $27,000 plus. AS OF TODAY...I HAVE WON...A JUDGMENT WAS ENTERED IN MY FAVOR. AS OF TODAY...THEY OWE ME $50 B/C I HAD THEIR LAW FIRM SANCTIONED FOR ACTING IN BAD FAITH. AS OF TODAY...MY EMPLOYER WAS SUED FOR VARIOUS BULLSHIT STUFF THAT WE WERE NOT LIABLE FOR, SEVERAL CASES EXCEEDING $3.25 Million. AS OF TODAY...WE HAVE PAID NOTHING. these my dear are very sophisticated cases. i give our litigator my "ideas". and he listens very well.

i don't fuck around when it comes to litigation. add the personal aspect of a doctor destroying lives...and how innocent you are compared to me and other addicts. and add the fact that i understand you had a dream, pursued a phd, and were aspiring to help at risk youths, and are now kicking suboxone...after your dream was a bit derailed....and you have all the ingredients for the fiercest lawsuit that someone couldn't imagine. how much is foreverannie's life worth...BEFORE PUNITIVE DAMAGES? i'll give you a quick answer...more than you are thinking that I'm thinking.

This offer is only good for one singular person-foreverannie. i politely ask that nobody else requests similar help (not that anyone would). Foreverannie-i'm so proud of you. i'm so glad the Klonopin helped. a million dollar wining lottery ticket would probably cheer you up as well. so would making sure that what happened to you never happens to anyone again. when it comes to legal matters...i promise...nobody wants anything to do with me. if i wasn't sure you had an extremely compelling case...i wouldn't have said a word about it. garysloane@att.net. its free. and my absolute pleasure.

PS. 1 a day for a week is harmless. i promise you. take care.

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

48 hours no sub...i need a fuckn' benzo....but can i find one....no no ican't ........

blah i feel like shit it sucks all around....i'll prob. end up takin sub but i'm tryin tosee how long i can go........need recommendations drug wise

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

actually i know everything to do i just want a quick fix really but whatever i just want off so hopefully i'll make it through the next couple of days...it annoys me to even type i wish i had cash for that rapid detox shit ya know it is so damn nice out today too it just adds to the depression i'd rather it be rainy out

Fun Times 3 years ago

hey merchant. i have ideas that may be helpful to you. first let me say i am really fucking proud of you. the 48 hour mark is when the shit is the worst...anyone will tell you that...day 2 is the bitch of the bunch.

merchant...if i may ask-specifically what are your symptoms. physically and emotionaly. what was your last dose. and gimme an idea of what is bothering you the most. please...the more info. you enter...the beter advice i could give.

you know me. i'll try to give you good advice that works. i already have ideas. i think i can help you, even a little, maybe a lot.

sweety...specifically...what's going on with you. how are u (and how have u been) eating, sleeping, restless, tired, depressed...anything u can think of is pertinent. please reply. i have ideas, and i want u well.

foreverannie 3 years ago

Queenie, I think I started calling her sub free a long time ago and she hasn't became upset yet-lol. You can just call me Aniie, even though that's not my name and I don't plan on giving my name on this website because my real name is so uncommon that anyone reading this can put the puzzle together and unfortunately things I have admitted could cost me my job!

Sub Free, how are you and your hubby today?

Guys, I swear I feel great- dare I say "cured" after 10 days? No I'm not gonna do that yet.

Fun Times,

I appreciate you sincerity and passion about this- trust me I do, and I have already though about how to keep others from going through what I did. In fact, I had a conversation with my doctor about his mistake. He admits he did wrong, I am currently writing an editorial in a newspaper about the effects of suboxone.

I just don't have it in me to sure anyone. I can't explain to you what type of person I am, but I'm not angry and I can only passively place blame on someone because I am not a naive idiot. I didn't research the drug before taking the med. I liked the way they made me feel at first, so I made the choice to keep taking them. That was my mistake.

In fact, I didn't start doing alot of research untill I met you guys. This website has been a lifesaver for me. In fact, no one could ever make me go to face to face group. To me, that's uncomfortable and somewhat embarrassing to speak to people in person about your problems. I am so suprised that I am benefiting so greatly from this.

Fun Times,

I am an activist. I speak out about Autism (my passion), to parents, at Universities, schools, train teachers, etc.. I even have a website dedicated to Autism.

Maybe one day I'll gather up the courage to speak about this.

Fun Times 3 years ago

FYI: rapid detox is a fucking scam. i did it. i wasted $7500. i aint getting into all the resaons its full of shit. the seizures break your back...your body cannot rebuild itself overnight...and it didn't work. its a fucking urban myth that it does. im living proof. so is my buddy that did it twice.

foreverannie 3 years ago

I did the 7 day Detox from walmart. It comes in a package for 17.97. Today is my best day. Day 10- NO SYMPTOMS!!!!!! I am full of energy. You can get bath stuff for achy muscles at Walmart 4.98. I bought amino acids and L gaurantine.

Last night, since I was up so long, I took 1 Klonopin and 1 Tramadol and I slept like a baby. Can you call your doc about Klonopin 2 tommorrow. THey are prescribed for severe insomnia.

Fun Times 3 years ago

annie...i respect your decision. it's not your job to research a drug before taking it...it's a doctors to research something before prescribing it. i get where u are coming from. if it happened to me...gosh...i'm like you...i don't like blaming anyone for my mistakes. if i think its my mistake. if the suboxone resulted in you losing a limb...would u feel the same way? no matter...you didn't.

i'm settled down now. if your fine now....that's enough to make me happy. i applaud the fact that he understands his mistake...and even more that you are forgiving. you are setting a great example. great job Annie!

foreverannie 3 years ago

i asked earlier and i'll ask again- is anyoe a mysace user? i have a site set up there about autism that you shouls check out

Merchant,

don't freak out girl. Reread my posts if you want. I am pretty detailed about my experiences day to day. So is Queenie. After Day 3, you will see light at the end of the tunnel, your senses will enhance, day 10 and I have NO symptoms and I was taking as little as you towards the end.

Your cravings will go away in a couple of days. The thought of a sub will make you cringe

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

k i just found klonipin....hooray...um chills sweats anxiety depression restless....i'm thinking about sawing my legs off putting them on ice til later.....oh and i want to throw up i keep gagging

foreverannie 3 years ago

Lol about the legs thing Merchant. I felt that way 2 days ago. If you walk around it will stop although I'm sure you don't have energy without sleep. Let the Klonopin knock you out for a few days- then see how you feel. I took Tramadol for leg pain- helped out a whole lot. I think you can order them online. Heck if I lived close buy, I'd bring you over some. Don't forget about the Detox (17.97 Walmart). Get that sh*t out of your system asap.

Fun Times 3 years ago

im reading a current pdr. clonazepam aka Klonopin it says is prescribed for anxiety and panic attacks. since it is a sedative...it will make u sleepy...i'm just telling you what the physican's desk reference says.

tramadol aka ultram (or a generic) is a pain killer. its prescribed to people getting out of joint surgery and cesrean section births. it sounds strong. i've never used that stuff personally. it says it works similar to a narcotic...and can be habit forming, producing mental and physical dependancy. keep that in mind.

I'm actually seing my dr. tommmorow at 2pm. i dont know who u were addresing...but I'll be glad to ask him about this subject . the pdr states that short term therapy of Klonopin (8 weeks or less) is typical. I have several pdrs. this one's the best. it doesn't even give a time table for tramadol.

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

k well i have tramadol and i'm getting the klonipin now i have to get motivated tp pick it up.....really the detox works what's in before i blow 20 bucks???

Fun Times 3 years ago

respectfully...i am 1000% for you getting the Klonopin merchant. read what the pdr says about tramadol...its definately going to feel good..i just don't know at what cost to ur well-being. it is non-narcotic. i have used over the counter detox products...and they never ever helped me. never. Klonipin helped a lot. I wouldn't use the over the counter detox if it was free. annie and me just have an honest difference of opinion over its usefulness.

Annie-if merchant was to reread your post...remember what i said before: the recitivism rate for heroin addicts is so high b/c they forget their pain so easily. i am truly gald u feel great today...possibly cured. this is how u felt 35 hours ago...before Klonopin and tramadol:

"How can I go from having a decent day to the worst freaking night of my life!!!! NO SLEEP, achy muscles, blah, blah. I actually started feeling sorry for myself last nigh- something I swore I wouldn't do. My husband is at work (he's on call 24/7) and it took everything out of me to take care of my baby.

"I am soooo ready to give in today guys or am thinking about going to rehab. My mind is raising......"

you took a serious pain kiler (a post surgery pain killer) and acceptable anti-anxiety drug after that...you were writing about soooo giving in and or going to rehab. i question whether tramadol is benefical. one thing i learned the hard way from drugs is that there is NEVER a free ride. anything that nmakes u feel cured after wanting to give in or go to rehab raises a red flag to me. post surgical medication is serious stuff.

foreverannie 3 years ago

Fun Times: You might be right. I definately agree with your theory. I just took 1 last night to help me get through because if I didn't get sleep I would be in rehab right now.

I haven't had anything today or plan on anything tonight. I am going to test that theory on my body and report to you guys in the morning how I feel. But, this might help you get through the hard stuff. And remember, this is coming from someone who has never taken any other drugs besides percs, vicodin, lortabs, and the deadly subs.

I just want Merchant to be successful and not experience what I did.

Merchant, go to Walmart and look through the products. I believe it might help flkush the Sub out of your system quicker.

foreverannie 3 years ago

OK, I did some more research about Tramadol and spoke with a friend of mine who is a Doctor, pediatrition but he still knows his stuff. Yes, Tramadol is presrcibed for mild to moderate pain and one of the most common prescribed in the ER because Docs are hesitate to prescribe opiates theses days since, in his opinion, more addicting. Tramadol can be addictive and probably shouldn't be given to recoveries like ourselves (they are my words), but if you have RLS they should help you get through the worst times in my opinion.

Fun Times: You cannot recommend and addictive drug 1000% then say your not sure about other. Both are addicting after prolonged use :). In the end Merchant, in my opinion, just use them for emergencies and no longer than 1 week

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

thanks for all the feedback guys....i'm a vet i know what's up no worries tramadol is a non opiate and highly addictive like it was an opiate and benzo's i don't particular like so i don't think i'll have a problem i am taking .25 4 times a day for about a week longer like 2 if necassary i just want off subs and i'll b good i know me very well i went to my na friend and my cousin is crashing here tonight so that'll help out tonight but tomorrow i'll b alone for a while so you fuckers better be online ;)

Fun Times 3 years ago

foreverannie...i'm pulling for you. Both Queenie (who I have a big crush on...and just felt like telling everyone for no reason) and myseif broke down and took a little something around the same time you did. I needed a break Annie...i was detoxing from 8 to zero...i did read stuff about a "ceiling effect" that said kicking 8 and 2 was about the same...and I'm pretty convinced that whoever wrote it didn't try them both. I did. 2 was easier. 1 was easier than that. zero is fucking zero...nuff said.

I digressed. so Queenie and I both did a little something to break the fall. i was at my wits end kicking from 8mg, really proud, but I was dyin" So i thought about it, and made what i consider after many days on zero a smart decision. i took 2mgs after being on 8 to 0 for a week, i felt a lttle guilty...but it was a respite i realized...one that i needed. in the following month a took 2 more 'little breaks'. and have over 100 days since then.

I fully condone and believe in giving yourself a break after hitting zero for a week or more and if your mind and body are screaming STOP! I CAN'T DO THIS ANYMORE!" time to let yourself relax a bit.

hey...we didn't get hooked in a day or a week or a year. we can be a little patient with ourselves with getting clean. Queenie's post awhile ago and mine show that as long as the "little bit/tiny break" we give ourselves remains just that...a tiny break...everything works out fine. be honest with thyself. We each have months on zero, and I just got through talking to her. We laugh so much togather. My best friend assured me that I never laughed this much before. Things are getting so much better.

I think you made a smart move annie. your body and mind deserved a break. I used to by every detox product known to man before urine drops. always as directed. i failed everytime. they never got drugs out of my system. but as i said...we agree to disagree.

Im proud of you annie-stay the course.

and Queenie...i hope people don't get sick of hearing it...but I'm so happy whenever we text or talk. u have a tremendous sense of humor. and to laugh my ass off with you after still having some ruff days (3.5 months clean after a couple decades feels good...but i'm still getting better)...is priceless to me.

Fun Times 3 years ago

merchant-now that the fuckin spirit. I'll fucking be here...for awhile for sure. i gave u my email address...shoot me your contact info and we could just chat in real time without the world knowing our twisted secrets. You have a boyfriend, so all is well. I'm gonna try and marry Quennie, so all is well. we can just bullshit about our metal/punk days or talk about nietzsche.

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

i'm gonna try to get throught the next couple of days i think i should be okay i'm a pretty tough but hey the ceiling affect doesn't have anything to do w/detox it has to do w getting high anywhere between 24-32mg your done your body won't use the rest and sends it on its way methadone doesn't have this.....that's why you never really hear of people on more than 24-32 mg of subs.

Fun Times 3 years ago

annie-ohhh in fact i can recommend one only: to wit: i recommended one addictive drug 1000% and not the other for a very simple reason. i actually used the one i recommended, not the other (so how could i recommend it...i just read the pdr and said it may be worth considering?). it doesn't always work...but i try not to talk out of my ass. lol!

I used heroin too. it's addictive. i don't recommend that one right now either ;)

merchant-u are getting funny. i like reading your pots alot. as for the ceiling effect-i agree with your last statement...not when u wrote

"that is a website regarding the potency of subs....no joke...jumping off at 2mg or 8mg...no difference...subs has a ceiling effect"

i didn't agree with that one (your post from 4 days ago). lol. its all good. thanks for your email. i know we are gonna have a riot if/when we chat. u seem like your in a great mood..and that's cool. i believe u are a vet and u know exactly what u r doing...anything non-opiate is cool, as long as you don't go fucking crazy and take like 20 pills at once for the next week. lol.

queenie 3 years ago

a couple bags of dope.......20dollars a few oxys.....30 dollars feeling healthy, alive, able to eat and sleep......priceless! I just sent you an email fun times. Merchant you can do it! this is where you implement that tough girl attitude. I know have appox. 4 hours to sleep for 12 hours of work.......Darn!

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

k well now i'm up again and listening to music on my ipod and typing you fuckers....i'm sure everybody is sleeping but well we all know i can't i'm serving this sentence of junkie limbo hell bullshit so when all you guys wake up tomorrow i'm sure i'll have all types of dumb ass shit written....for your entertainment of course....i am okay though i feel fucked but i'm okay just to fill ya's in music is a huge help....tool good stuff helps me not feel so fucked....my stomach is all crazy so i'm just chillin w/some watermelon italian ice....i'm hooked on that shit....

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality.Embrace this moment. Remember. We are eternal.All this pain is an illusion.

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

i am not feeling well at all my fuckin muscles are kiiing me

PlainInsane 3 years ago

Been reading all the posts for days, finally decided to speak. I'm almost 48. It's 2:43 a.m. as I look at the clock and I have to work in about 4 hours. My addiction started out about 10 years ago. Started with Hydro's for severe migraines and shoulder surgery. I was playing hockey at the time and hurt my back. Doc gave me Soma. What a mixture Hydro's and Soma. Over the next two years my tolerance went up. I was taking 25 1500 Hydro's with 10 Soma's at a time. Needless to say I became an ambarrassment to my family, passing out in my food and what not. My wife finally talked me into getting into a rehab. That lasted a little over a week and then my new drug of choice was Oxy's & Soma. A month or so after this I flew back to Michigan to deer hunt. I once again embarrassed myself in front of my friends. The next day I was sitting in my blind and lost control. I left and drove to my dad's house where I went to the bedroom and stayed in there flipping all day long. That night I told my dad i needed to get back home so I called the airlina and beeged them to change my flight. I was lucky the person I spoke to changed it and the next day I was headed back to CA. I spent the next 6 weeks sitting in the living room chair staring at the T.V. I would get up and pop all my pills and just be a zombie. My wife would cry and my brother would cry and tell me "you look like an 80 year old man and your going to be dead soon. I was now also manically depressed when I wasn't stoned. On new years day I drove myself to the emergency room and checked myself in. Immediately they injected me with subutex. One hour later I felt like a new man. 4 days later I was releases with a script for suboxone. (4) 2mg pills per day. Me being a addict decided to take all 4 at once and I would actually get the euphoric felling for hours. My new life had started. I went back to work still fighting deppression but when I took my sub I was good. After A couple months I decided I would skip every other day so I could take 16 mg per day all at once. Life was great, i was a new man and everyone noticed it. Fast forward 5 years. 4/7/09. I've been thinking about getting off of the sub. There was no euphoria anymore but i never increase above the 16mg every other day. So on the 7th i got a cold and left work to go home to bed. Thought this is a great time to get off it thinking it might take 5 or 6 days of w/ds but I was sick anyhow. Sleep 16 hrs a day for the first 3 days. Weekend comes and i'm felling fine other than the cold. Sunday night comes and i'm going back to work tomorrow. I get rls and do not sleep. Make it thru work but am getting sicker. From this point on i'm in a living hell. Yesterday I had to take a .5 mg because I thought i was going to snap. Today is day 20 and I am feeling sicker than ever. I have to work 10 to 11 hrs per day and everyone knows i'm sick. I've lost a good 10 lbs. If this doesn't start tapering off soon I'm not sure i'll make it. I've always been one tough sob but this is taking me to my limit. I should have probably tapered down instead of just jumping off such a high dose. My doctor also never explained how bad the w/ds would be. My symtoms are: goose bumbs, yawning, sneezing, RLS, creepy crawly skin everywhere, stomach discomfort and the squirts, insomnia, uncontrollable spirts of crying. no energy. I'm going to try like hell to get through this, i would hate to throw away 15 days of heavy suffering.

Fun Times 3 years ago

merchant u pscyopath...are u there? (psychopath is a compliment). alright....let me make an off the board suggestion. the pain aint going anywhere...let it be for a minute.

would u consider telling yourself..."fuck this...i need a break...i'm taking 2mgs today....at once...i'm not getting any detox gold star by adherring to this painful plan"?

if so...take 2mgs just today and chill. i promise you...the pain aint going anywhere...it will be back tommorrow or the next day. give urself a break today.

annie-is all well?

plaininsane-you've earned your name. i kicked off 8mg a day. that was plain insane. 16 mg's every other day...what did you have...dr. fucking kevorkian...j/k...that was annie's doctor. Anyway...i said fucked all that and did the 2mg to 1mg to zero thing. Fucking 8mg split me ib half. it freaked my fucking body out. I'd try a more reasonable taper.

foreverannie 3 years ago

Plain Insane,

Thanks for your story! It's probably really tough for you because you didn't taper, but your 20 days in, so DON't go back. Your body needs rest to heal so my suggestion is to get a Klonopin or Ambien and just take for a day or so to sleep, relax- no longer.

Then write us and let us know how your doing. In fact write us anytime!

Merchant, are you off Subs completely. If so, Fun times, shame in you for telling her to take more. She only has a few more days till she feels better. Merchant, don't listen to him-lol. GET THE SUBS OUT OF YOUR SYSTEM!

Today, day 10 I think

Guys I feel even better than yesterday. I woke up with a slight headache which probably came from the 7 day cleansing I got at Walmart. I feel happy, healthy, and ready to go out and enjoy my sunshine.

I did not take anything FUN Times last night, no Klonopin, no TRamadol, etc. and I slept 7 hours!!!!! I woke up a couple of times with a slight ache in my arms, but ignored it and went back to sleep. I just took one the night before. I think my body was dying for sleep day 8. That's what makes one heal. THe more sleep, the better you are.

Merchant,

get the 7 Day cleanse if you can. A womans body is chemically and physically different than a mans so what didn't work for funtimes may work for you. Definately worth 20 dollars.

Guys, if I feel better tommorrow, I am going to shout out "I'm over it, 11 days"!!!

Fun Times 3 years ago

annie...this is one case (of many) where i am glad to be wrong. i'm glad you are well. hopefully cured. that would be cool.

as for my advice to merchant...it's just what i did...to get where i am. she's a big girl...she knows how her body feels and what she can take. u were 1 day away from rehab lady...i dont want her in a rehab. rehabs are not gonna help.

foreverannie 3 years ago

I know Fun Times ;)

PlainInsain 3 years ago

Foreverannie,

I just stopped work for lunch. I read your comment. I took 25mg of Ambien CR last night and did not sleep one minute. My body feels like its about to collapse. I called me MD but he's off on Mondays. I asked the nurse if she could get the oncall to give me something, told her the ambien has no effect on me. I have realized how badly i've screwed up my brain. If i'm lucky I've slept on average 2 hours a night since I started this and the sleep comes in 20 minute intervals then its back awake tossing and turning or watching TV. I'm trying like hell but i'm almost broke, if I could only sleep 6 or 8 hours I know it would help me combat the way I feel. sleep depravation also f's up your mind. I had a meeting this morning and it was very hard to keep it together. well everyone thanks for the comments. I'll keep in touch. Back to work I go!!

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

well around 330am i took .25 i don't feel 100% but i'm happy about that i only wanted to get the edge off....it did i was goin crazy so i don't think i really set myself back and i'm feelin blah today like a zombie and detoxing but fuck it ....went to a meeting this afternoon....passed the time now i'm in this hot ass apt.

annie i'm on klonipin so i'll try the detox after i'm done w/that and cleanse my body or whatever....right now juice eating and well just not fuckin dying is on my top priority list.

i'm hoping to get throught the next 72hrs w/out subs at this point if i can get past that i'll fuckin jump for joy. but as for today no sub and tomorrow no sub. i could make it to the 48 hour mark an hopefully what i did will make things easier.

queenie 3 years ago

Plaininsain, if you can take off work do it. You are in for a battle. Pepcid ac is good for the stomach and icy hot for the legs. Drink alot of water. Thats a pretty addict friendly hospital you went to that gave you iv subutex a script and send you out the door.? Wow! I have never seen addicts accommodated so well in a hospital setting. Shame on them. In the long run they did'nt help you at all. They simply prolonged your misery. Just mentally prepare yourself and tell your self your stronger than that pill. Merchant hang in there and i dont think after a couple of days you need to be taking subs since thats what your trying to get off of. Dont listen to that knuckle head!

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

i know what's up i also no skipping days is a taper thing if i can get through it great that's what i want but i'm not gonna kill myself either this is an 8 year run it didn't take overnight to get here so it won't take over night to get off either....ideally yes i want to not take anything but if i'm at my wits end i just might but i'm okay right now and taking the .25mg didn't even make everything okay it made the pain manageable

thanks though i appreciate all the feedback really i do

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

Plaininsane - you might want to try Lunesta... I will admit, in the beginning I was taking up to 40mg of regular Ambien throughout the night... and now I have weened myself down to 5mg, and tonight will be my first night without any... but I think I will be ok.... I'm on day 31... my husband slept almost 10 hours last night without any Ambien, and he's been taking it since day 2 also... I'm not saying take it the whole time like we have or anything, but I think it did really help... taking it a week straight won't hurt... Lunesta made us way more groggy... I, personally, am still waking up every couple of hours, but I go back to sleep after a while, I'm not wide awake and wired in the middle of the night anymore... I also have a cold right now, and I have been coughing a lung up at night so that's waking me up... oh I also wanted to say that the Ambien didn't even really start making me sleepy until week three or so - I know I was taking too much, and I was still wide awake, but it eventually started working correctly I think... and now I'm quitting it, don't want to get addicted to that or anything - you can overdose on it also so be careful... but I definitely agree about the sleep... it will drive you freaking crazy... I agree with Annie though, I would try not to take anymore subs... quit now or quit later... you still gotta quit... remember, that's what your brain is wanting... SUBS SUBS SUBS... do you really want to go through this all over again?? It's rough and tough, but hell, 20 days? Come on, man... you'll feel SOOO much better if you can get some sleep... regular Ambien is waaaay cheaper than Ambien CR... hang in there... you and Merchant gotta come through this...

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

Damn... some posts popped up while I was typing... I guess me and Queenie have the same opinion on not taking any more subs, but I can also see where you're coming from Merchant... I hope it helps instead of prolonging your misery... think about this though: if you were to put all the days together that you have been suffering and will suffer inbetween taking the subs... what day would you be at if you didn't take any? I mean, you already tapered pretty damn far, a lot farther than most people can stand... and it's still that bad for you? Is it worth it? I, personally, think you're low enough that it's not going to make a big difference in tapering anymore - you're just going to prolong your suffering - this comes from quite a few people I've talked to... we couldn't even take tapering below 4mg, and you're down to .25 - sounds like you're stronger than we are, and we made it so damn girl, you can do it... Ok, said my opinion... I'm definitely not going to judge you if you keep tapering, you know your body better than me so do what you gotta do... I just had to say how I feel... like I said in an earlier post, if I had stuck to my tapering plan, I'd only be down to .25 instead of being on day 31 clean... you just have to bite the bullet and flush the pills... if they're around, you'll take 'em... good luck with whatever you decide to do... we're here to support you either way...

foreverannie 3 years ago

Plain Insane,

I know how you feel. I taught school on no sleep and may have very well went crazy at times. If this makes you feel better, I'm at day 10 and I think I'm done withdrawaling. My body is so peaceful, that I can't see it going back. If something else happens then I'll be sure to let all my detox buddies on here no. I want to chronicle my experience as openly and honestly as possible. If you have money, 17.97, get the 7 day cleanse. And get ahold of Klonopins. Take one or 2. I personally think they are much better than Ambien. Your doc will probably prescribe a weeks worth to you. Klonopins may be a nerve pill, bujt they are prescribed for insomnia. I have a pill bottle that says "take on nightly for Insomnia". I took one once, slept, woke up and my withdrawals were gone. Take a Multivitamin, Protiens, and Amino Acids. You can do this. Keep posting all day if neccessay. THis is a great group, full of sensitive, strong women! Everyone helped me get through it...Oh yeah, and Funtimes.

foreverannie 3 years ago

Sub Free,

You are so right with the last post, advice to Merchant. I spent months just taking a crumb of Sub. Now that I think back, I was miserable the whole time, night sweats (I thought I was going through early menopause and I am extremely young for that), bad moods, unemotional, headaches, etc. See, my body wasn't getting enough to make me feel normal and I wasn't willing to take 8-12 mgs any more. I was guilty of prolonging the inevitable. Well said girl!

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

Thanks Annie - point is, you're gonna have to pay up sooner or later, and YOU ARE GOING TO BREAK DOWN... emotionally, physically, mentally.... it's inevitable..... but if you can make it through that day or two, it gets better... I haven't said anything about how I'm feeling, but on day 31 it's ok.... only thing left for my husband is his energy level... my anxiety is down, my neck, shoulders, and legs are not hurting anymore, and sleep is ok... there are definitely up and down days, but I am soooo glad to be off... was it worth all the suffering? HELL YEAH... was all the good times I had on pills worth all this suffering... HELL NO...

foreverannie 3 years ago

AGREE with that. I remember everyone telling me not to give in at my 8 day when I was nuts and because of you guys, I didn't. How many hours are you sleeping now. I slept almost 8 without any sleep meds last night. My aches and pains are gone. I feel such release, but I'm not going to try to do to much, even though I want to do everything.

Your husband definately had a differernt detox, sleeping alot. I would consider that great.

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

Yeah, mine was rougher than his... I can't really judge how well I'm sleeping until I get over this cold... main thing is, I wake up, but I can go back to sleep instead of being wired... laid down at 10 pm, and I didn't get up out of the bed until 7 am, but like I said, I was up a little during the night because of my coughing and breathing... but the best thing is if I do wake up, I'm not lying there in pain, wired, with my anxiety running high or anything anymore so that helps a lot... it doesn't bother me to lay there for an hour before I go back to sleep... hubbie's totally different though, he only woke up once last night, and that was because I was coughing, and he went right back to sleep so it's all good... I can't complain, knowing what everyone else is going through. I'm so glad you're feeling so good, that's awesome... like I said before, we had pretty good days on day 11 and 12... went back down after that, but I don't think we were feeling as good as you so you might not... the worst, worst is over for sure - Plaininsane: I would agree with Annie on the Klonopine - in the beginning, Valium helped me better than Ambien, just be careful... I only took it two nights, but I slept 4 hours straight which was a godsend then...

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

Oh - Annie: I don't want you to take what I said the wrong way - stay positive, you could and might be through it all - I'm just being honest, but if you stay in good spirits, that helps a lot so don't pay attention to what I said about going back down...

foreverannie 3 years ago

I'm not Sub Free, that's why I'm going to give it a couple of days. But as of now, I have NO WD Symptons. I just pray I am that way I can give hope to those who may think it will take forever

Where's Fun Times, I figured he would be writing on here defending himself fiercely-lol/ Must be tied up.

Fun Times 3 years ago

i'm just happy to be alive and i agree with everyone!

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

I was wondering the same thing about FunTimes... FunTimes I want you to know that yesterday I read some of your earlier posts that I hadn't read before, and I laughed my ass off... keep it coming...

Debi 3 years ago

I am really scared I have been on subs for a month I will be picking up my last script and my insurance is ending at the end of April, I kind of wish I had stayed on the pain meds right now, I will break them in half untill they are gone and after 5 days go back on vicodan it is much cheaper. It just seems like you cant win.....

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

well i was blah all day but i was busy out and about in society.....went to a fuckin meeting....it sucked but i ran into somebody i knew he has 5 yrs clean that was cool then b/f daughter and i went for spring water icecream and park i just can't wait til i can feel connected to life again

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

ya i get what you guys are sayin i do and hopefully i'll be done soon enough i'm almost at the 24 hour mark and hopefully i'll sleep through it but it's not like it's messing me up i still feel sick just more tolerable...i would be so happy to have this done with and all the in and out suffering adds up it could of been worse if i didn't taper thanks for all the feedback it's appreciated it really is...i'm so damn tired right now i can just pass out in the ac...........can't wait...tomorrow won't be that much fun but i have stuff to do so hopefully that'll help me out who knows i'll just focus on one day at a time or whatever

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

Merchant: good to hear from ya... I totally agree with the taper - if you can handle it, which you could... but I was talking more about the suffering you've had since you stopped & the days you will suffer from now on inbetween subs... I just feel like taking more starts the suffering over for most people.. not all... some can taper down to every three days or so... or I've even heard of 4 days without withdrawals... i dunno... everyone's different... sorry you feel like shit... I feel your pain in your posts...

foreverannie 3 years ago

Debbie,

If you are in Chronic Pain for a medical reason, get advice from a doctor. Otherwise get rid of the Subs. They are the devil. Taper down to less than 1 milligram, thengo through the withdraws. Read our suggestions on how to get through them, then do it!

You don't have to live your life addicted to meds. I'm 10 or 11 days clean and feel great after being on Subs for 4 years.

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

no chronic pain....i'm a junkie that's my plague

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

the plan as of now is to sleep as much as i can and tomorrow i'm going w/my friend from na til b/f gets home then deal w/life til then....i hear ya about suffer and tapering and how it works either way i'm just gonna try and push it but if it's rough at least i can c how long i can go ya know..........thanks

oh and no dr. i'm down to .25mg and it's all me

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

haww-chew

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

Here I go... first night without sleep aid in over a month... I did take 2 Nyquil and 3mg Melatonin - don't know if it will help... we'll see.... hope everyone sleeps well..... night night

Fun Times 3 years ago

merchant sing it with me;

go.go.go.go.go.go.go.go

fight the power, fight the power, fight the power c'mon c'mon

fight the power, fight the power, fight the power yeahh. fight the power, fight the powers that be!

i show u my gun, myuzzi wrighs a ton, merchant be public enemy number one...one, one one!

feeling unispired...think i'll lite a fire. everybody run...merchants gotta gun. she thinks im kinda neat...then she tells me i'm a creep.

k-that was my inspirational music. merchant- go kick some fuckin ass. nothin for nothein but i saw my doctor today. the old german type...why did you gain 11 pounds since our last visit 6 months ago. "listen fucker...u really wanna know...lol." anyway, he's cool. i told him i had to quit smoking (a pack or so a day). he looked all crazy at me...put the stethescope to my lungs, had me breathe deeply....and told me a had lungs like a fucking thouroughbred.

long story short...i haven't smoked since 130pm. i quit. fuck...now that the suboxone, (and other shit) is over...i'm bored. i need to be fighting something. cigarettes...batter up! your time has come. i wanna suffer at least a lttle bit with you guys. i feel its my duty...and i'll be healthier. good luck all.

PS. subfree...yeah yeah...i love compliments. you are very cool. i can't call you sweetheart or Queenie will get jealous...women. lol. i am extremely proud of you. really. thanks for the kind words. it feels good to hear them.

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

so i have a question is anybody still awake???

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

so what day would i technically b on?

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

so impatient i am...i am dreading tomorrow i feel like it's gonna suck worse than today i'm suck a fuckin pestimist aren't i ....i went to a meeting and i really had no interest in what they had to say they all just bored me mundane same ol same ol ...it's like where's the insight where is the profound revelation.....nope just some dumb ass mother fuckers complaining or quoting the na text....shit i can read....what are you thoughts on it how does it apply to you or do you disagree....better yet ;) i'm gonna go to fill up time and space right now what else can i do but damn they are lame as fuck....at least where i am they are................anybody out there yet???????????????????????????????????/

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

so funtimes....the caffiene...ya....lower the intake my friend....songg them of the night......the ramones.....i wanna be sedated...hee hee

Fun Times 3 years ago

merchant...hate me today...hate me tommorrow...but i'm just saying:

really...quit fuckin crying already. i support u but shit...this is fuckin ridiculous. i know u are hard. fuckin act like it. dig...embrace the pain. its a once in a lifetime show. enjoy it for all its worth. fuck. i miss fighting shit so im quitting smoking. it aint as bad as subs...but its something.

noone wants to hear anyone complain. i promise u that. u don't want to hear yourself complain. yeah the world sucks and life in unfair. SUPRISE MOTHERFUCKER. just kinda kidding. but you better get tough lady. for real. you know...i (or anyone shouldn't have to tell you).

this aint no fuckin picnic lady. quit acting like its supposed to be one. really doe. this is fierce shit. sink or swim.

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

y do i keep missing everybody? i tell ya....i'm def tired and feel like jello w/ all the fun pains and allergies i've had a fever the last couple of days aswell.......i'm so tired i just want to sleep i need a fuckin lullaby

Fun Times 3 years ago

ohhh..i was saying..i want everyone here off subs. period. ladies...if i'm wrong about the "you better have a positive and hard attitude in life" tell me. i just know how a man has to act. i am a guy.

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

dude i know life isn't sunshines ande fuckin rainbows and thanks for the lecture but it wasn't nec. and i don't care how hard somebody is......this sucks and i have a non addict b/f who is harder than you so trust me i know the fuckin deal....no sympathy go it alone you did it to yourself blah blah blah....no fuckin shit thanks for the update.....i don't get offended by you so don't worry....i'm just in a world of hurt and will be for a minute so what do you want ....wanna talk about say the yankees? or how it was so nice and sunny? and no i'm not angry and pissed generally just now i'm annoyed at myself being in this situation and personally anybody coming off wants to act like oh well i did da da da and life is great isn't really comin off them this shit is my cryptenite and it's been a long time since i've had to deal w/it so yes it fuckin sucks ......hey i'm makin an effort i've been goin out doin water trying to feel real about it but it's not there and i'm not happy about that and when i 'm done and back to being me i'll fuckin post happy go lucky shit.....venting doesn't make me weak at least in my eyes i'm just sayin what's going on with me....it passes the time and helps to keep shit in perspective....am i bitter? fuck ya! if you can find somebody happy to detox i wanna meet them...really.

aside from this bullshit conversation.....am i on day 3 or back to 1? what's your take on that....i actually was waiting for your dumbass so you can help contemplate this with me.

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

well

Fun Times 3 years ago

see...you called me a dumbass...so i'm guessing no hard feelings. no sarcasm..i know thats "good" coming from you.

honestly angel....it sucks becuse i dig you, your fascinating, but I can't really ever successfully gauge what i should say to you. i think we are both too opiniaited, high strung, and hostile...yet caring. i wind up hurting not helping u, and i dont wanna do that. honestly...fuck what day u r on. this is "how to save a life time"...there are no fucking rules...except be honest to thineself. Yeah...don't stat back on alot of subs. after that..fuck it...survive. i dont care how many days anyone has. i care how are they today.

i was happy to detox. u should have seen it...i wish i taped that fuckin kick. i laughed through this shit. most of the time. on the floor laughing...no sleep..in the dark. i don't need to sound hard to folks i'll never meet. your boyfriends harder than me..so you have met someone pretty fucking hard. anyone harder than me laughs through this shit. really. it aint no super violent H kick. and it aint no ultra rapid detox. fuckin Fun Times.

Fun Times 3 years ago

mercahnt..u wanna talk...i'm here. we can talk. non-hostile. lets go. i invited u too chat..no reply. talk here...anywhere. cmon. please.

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

chat...what where

FunTimes 3 years ago

my email address is garysloane@att.net. use yahoo IM. say Hi. lets talk. or use msn messener. im on both. SAY HI!!!!

FunTimes 3 years ago

chat at yahoo im or msn messenger...i already sent u invites...garysloane@att.net SAY HI already!

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

dont u have aim

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

yahoo is being retarded and i'm already signed into aim express dude just go there

Fun Times 3 years ago

for u...i will discover aim. hang tight.

Fun Times 3 years ago

ok...im on aim...what the hell user id am i looking for? i went with Sloane 007.

foreverannie 3 years ago

April 28th- Day 13

Still going strong. I did stay home from work today but thiswasbecause my toddler was so sick. I woke up a couple of times during the night, but just because again he was sick. No sleep meds for 2 days straight. In fact, I am not taking anything at all besides the 7 day cleansing. I noticed a slight dull sensation in both of my arms last night, but it was totally bearable- kinda like a slight cough compared to the flu.

I did wake up with a headache again,but went away after water and coffee. My friend the doctor says it may be the 7 day cleansing- if you do that, you have to stay hydrated and take vitamins because while it is good for you, the cleansing flushes out alot of your vitamins. I am going to test my theory by drinking a huge glass of water before bed.

My mind feels clear and strong. I feel normal like a huge weight has been lifted. I hope all of you can get there soon!

Fun Times 3 years ago

Good job Annie!!!! Listen...you were a 4 year nut like me....and i just want to say that i think you have an inspiring message to everyone!

You're a strong, reasonable, woman. You did something that breaks people. Great job!!!!!

PlainInsane 3 years ago

Day 21, another sleepless night. Oncall Dr. did not call back yesterday. I'm sicker than I ever imagined I could be. I really believe I may collapse at anytime. I'm at work and don't believe I can make it thru the day here. When will this start turning the other way??? Last time i took any sub was 3 days back and it was .50mg. I'm determined not to take anymore but I believe it may kill me. It takes every bit of strength I have just to stand up. I'm freezing and I'm wearing a heavy sweater and a jacket. I woudn't recommend anyone to go from 16mg every other day and then jump to 0. In a normal month I would take 240mg, in the last 3 weeks I've taken a total of 5mg. and no more than .5mg every 3 days. I'm going to try the 7 day cleansing. Thanks for the advice and votes of confidence from everyone. I'll keep in touch and let everyone know how its going.

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

lol....i went "running" around my hall way laid on the couch and passed out for a couple of hours. i just got off the phone w/my na friend and i really don't feel like going out but i think i might not sure. foreverannie i'm happy to hear your doing well i hope my detox is like yours. i know tonight will suck but i'm gonna just take whatever to try and knock myself out. i don't even kno wwhat else to say write no w i'm like a ball of painful mush....

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

ghfggl ug

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

well my na friend is coming to get me i 'm gonna hang out w/her until later or even crash there not sure yet i feel so bad though it's my b/f bday and his parents are throwing a party tonight and i'm a no show i could take sub s and b normal but i'm not i'm just gonna get through this make it up to him later....i know he'll be so much happier when i'm normal...it sucks that he doesn't really understand i have t olike do the thinking for the two of us w/this he thinks y n ot just stay on subs and be "normal" but i can't stay in this prison any longer and im not myself....this is temporary and needs to be done sofuck it......it just sucks feeling guilty on top of all this other chaos my friend has a computer and what not so i'll check in

foreverannie 3 years ago

Plain Insane,

Suggestion: Do NOT give in and take a sub. You will set your progress back. Did you get any Sleep Meds, Nerve Meds, etc? If you feel like your gonna pass out, go to emergency room asap. They may give you sleep pills or something for you. Just do not take suba, do not let it have control. You have been 3 days without. It will get better each day. Trust, me I experienced the same symptoms you have.

I'll b reading this hub later to see how things go.

Fun Times 3 years ago

I did a you tube search and there is this guy (Dr. JUnig) who i think posts on drugs.com and he set up a website call subfree.com.

he seems pretty knowledgeable. maybe it wil help someone.

Fun Times 3 years ago

my apologies. the blog is suboxone-talk zone.com

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

Yeah, that website is where I learned how to taper & take subs a different way... Y'all... today is not my day... I'm breaking... I don't know what the hell is wrong with me... I'm extremely depressed... about everything... I can't stop crying... suck it up, I know...

PlainInsane 3 years ago

subfreechickadee,

Hang in there, it will pass. I went thru the same thing a couple days back. You need to do something to get your mind off it. Hang in there, please don't give in.

foreverannie,

I'm not going to take any subs. I really don't care if it kills me, I'm not taking any. My doc is calling me in a script to help me sleep. I asked him for clonopin, I believe he will give it to me. I'll let you know tonight when I get home from work.

Fun Times 3 years ago

hey...hey ...hey there subfreechicakadee. listen...please. i had fucked up days after being off subs for over 3 months. I was asking people in Recovery like "hey...whats up with this bullshit...i'm supposed to be getting better). they were talking some shit about a honeymoon period...dragging a brother down.

subfree...i will say this. and it comes from experience...straight out of the Beatle's (i'm sure of this one Annie ;) ) Helter Skelter:

"well i get to the bottom i go back to the top of the slide, i get to the top and i go for a ride, i get to the bottom and i get up again!"

week 3 or so was great. honestly great. week 5 or 6 was less great. go fucking figure. but one thing is for sure...i aint doin that bullshit again. that kick was my once in a lifetime fun time (the violent H w/ds broke me in half...so did the skipping out of the meth clinic...i wasn't that hard).

so now i just take things a day at a time. i tell myself everyday at work (like now) fuck this...i'm leaving early. but i don't. i want to very very bad. then i'm cool. i'll hang out...do all i can..."and if the mountains....fall in the sea....let it be....it aint me".

you'll feel cool by nitefall angel. and i truthfully told someone what i'm gonna tell you...i haven't cried in so many years i cant count. tears are a gift. i couldn't cry when my dad died. that made me feel guilty. so tears are natures way of releasing stress. you are exactly where i was this time awhile ago. and u have support from your husband. you're doing great and you'll be fine.

foreverannie 3 years ago

Sub Free,

Whats wrong? Is it WD or something else happened. Are you having pains, craving, etc., etc.

Yea for you. Now that you have your script, you'll get through it. Just remember, I am under 2 weeks and I feel that I have beat the nightmare. I guess I'm one of those statistics that Queenie was talking about 90% give in within a few days. Thats OK, I've beat other statistics and so will you!

foreverannie 3 years ago

That second paragraph was direct to Plain Insane. I pray the meds get you through it :)

mamasawn 3 years ago

The way I understand it, If you take a very high dose of oxycontin or opiates, that they recommend you to get on methadone first, and then suboxone. Can anyone tell me the milli it would take to be recommended for methadone or what the limit for suboxin?

foreverannie 3 years ago

Mamasawn,

I will never recommend either lol, but that depends on your dosage of Oxy's etc. Suboxone may be ok to get you off of the other stuff for a very short period of time, but taper asap. No matter how great Methadone or Subs make you feel in the beginning, they will eventually break you down if you stay on them.

If you want a better opinion, give us a little more info like what drugs your on, how long, the dosage, are they prescribed, etc.

Fun Times 3 years ago

One more inspirational lyric from my man Ce-L, for u subfree:

" you get up...you get down...but you've come to far to start fuckin around"

ur doing it girl. watch. nitefall. u'll be great. as them gym shoe kids say when them peoples pass by: "All's well!"

foreverannie 3 years ago

Fun Times,

keep the inspiration coming! Where are you Sub Free? Usually you answer quickly??? Anyway, keep us informed girl!

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

Fun Times... I luv you man... thanks everyone... I broke down, I let it all out, made some wild, passionate love (it really does help)... and now I'm better.... my racing thoughts just got the better of me... and I am so thankful for this hub... laughter is the best medicine (Thanks Fun Times)... I felt so petty writing about my little bullshit I'm going through while others are suffering big time, but I had to get some feedback, and I'm glad I did... I'm caring about things I haven't cared about in a long time... I think my brain is coming alive again... with care comes worry, but I'll take it... I had a long talk with hubbie about everything that was bothering me.... didn't want to bore y'all with that... Oh and Annie - yeah, I hurt A LITTLE, but that wasn't my problem... no cravings, just uncontrollable emotions... worrying about shit too much... Fun Times, thanks... knowing that someone else goes through this after this long really helps... it all helped... you did your good deed for the day... thanks for caring

foreverannie 3 years ago

Sub Free,

So glad you are feeling better. Sounds like you have a great relationship with your hubby like I do with mine. Even taking away the Sub addiction, I still have emotional issues. They seemed to get better with age. Now that I'm 30, I don't sweat the stuff small- by the way that's a good book. Reading anything really heals the soul. I am getting my summer reading list together. Anyone have suggestions?

My husband and I have been cleaning this evening. I used to take such pride in my house- keeping it clean and such. But the Subs took that away from me. While I was taking them, all I did was work, take care of my kids, and sit on the couch wishing my life was different.

Even though my energy level isn't great (better than when on Subs) I am gaining pride in my house again. It's not much, but we are fortunate in many ways. Now that my mind is clearer, I wonder how did I let myself get that way, so yes Sub Free, with happiness sometimes comes lingering painful thoughts.

Good Luck :)

Fun Times 3 years ago

you did your good deed for the day by sharing those kind words. i mean that. i say harsh and impulsive stuff at times...well intentioned or not...so when i hear something really sweet like you just said coming from someone who's being a brave son of a bitch like me through what can be franky really unpleasant shit....IT MAKES MY MOTHERFUCKIN' DAY!

i knew u'd be cool subfree. i knew u didn't come this far to start fuckin around. and i knew it was a matter of hours b/c u caught your second wind and felt better.

subfree....each day...it gets better. i had a bad few days here and there....but a fuckin lot more great ones as times passes. so will u. GREAT FUCKING JOB!!!!!! tell hubby (i'm sure u did,..how important he is to you). us men need to hear that shit ;)

Fun Times 3 years ago

alrigghttt....now for my silly kid shit: at least i'll amuse myself. ;)

merchant...i took the the high road on how far hard your b/f is.

so now i gotta quote my Eazy E-lyrics:

"my pockets are fat , you see, shit don't matter to me....i feel like nobody is badder than me".

them gym shoe kids weren't get shit from me...even w/ a gat stuck to my neck. really doe. i got to let Queenie know that i will be the man in our relationship. LOL!!!! and im psuhing a lot of weight...not drugs (for once)...steel!

and of course i had girlfriends harder than u. so i'm calling us even.

PS. Motherfuckers knew better than to throw a party for me. Fuck. I wasn't going anywhere for a party, much less my own. i Had drugs to do. LOL!

foreverannie 3 years ago

My daughter, a 5th grader, wanted me to help her read a story out of her reading book Hattie's Birthday Box, by Pam Conrad- just a little short story. Geez I was not prepared for that. I don't know if it was empathy for Sub free, or the struggles that I have been going but I was crying like a baby after the first paragraph. My daughter was looking at me like I was nuts and my husband was laughing his butt off that such a short story could evoke so much emotion.

Anyhow, I think the story made a connection with my dilemma of knowing that just a little pice of suboxone (or a peek in the box) will take all of my troubles away, but avoiding the temptation of looking in the box makes me a stronger person.

Anyway, on a lighter note, that's not how i feel now, since tommorrow I am going to scream that "I'm recovered"!

Fun Times- nice how you can make poetry out of song lyrics. I used to use that technique with my high school kids-lol

foreverannie 3 years ago

My daughter, a 5th grader, wanted me to help her read a story out of her reading book Hattie's Birthday Box, by Pam Conrad- just a little short story. Geez I was not prepared for that. I don't know if it was empathy for Sub free, or the struggles that I have been going but I was crying like a baby after the first paragraph. My daughter was looking at me like I was nuts and my husband was laughing his butt off that such a short story could evoke so much emotion.

Anyhow, I think the story made a connection with my dilemma of knowing that just a little pice of suboxone (or a peek in the box) will take all of my troubles away, but avoiding the temptation of looking in the box makes me a stronger person.

Anyway, on a lighter note, that's not how i feel now, since tommorrow I am going to scream that "I'm recovered"!

Fun Times- nice how you can make poetry out of song lyrics. I used to use that technique with my high school kids-lol

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

made it through today....just got home i plan on going w/my friend everyday til i'm stable it comes and goes nights suck but i just took my cocktail and should hopefully fall asleep soon depression sucks but oh well went to a damn meeting again anything to fill the day i'll be going on day 3 tomorrow and i expect 3-5 to be the worse of it....sad so sad but whatever if i can just get through this week.....general question what was the worst of the days for everybody else??? just so i have some light at the end of the tunnel

foreverannie 3 years ago

Merchant,

Day 5 is a great day, week, but I felt better. Then just 5 more days till I recovered. Just remember when your legs ache and your wide awake, it will pass. Reread my posts. I posted everyday :))

foreverannie 3 years ago

Merchant,

Day 5 is a great day, week, but I felt better. Then just 5 more days till I recovered. Just remember when your legs ache and your wide awake, it will pass. Reread my posts. I posted everyday :))

Queenie 3 years ago

Merchant ,4 thro 8 were the worst for me. I am really proud of you and try and focus on the fact that you will feel like a new woman soon enough(well maybe not soon enough for you but...). What your doing is not easy but take comfort in the fact that we made it (Fun Times is a pussy and even he made it) and you will too! Big ups to all my girls doing the right thing (Fun times included)!

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

i must say annie you are my biggest inspiration right now...day 5 and i should b feeling better....i would be so happy!i'm taking benadrly klonipin motrin every 12 hours i really can't wait til i can actually apreciate life again instead of a zombiefied mess. i think our detoxes are going to be alike b.c of how we tapered....don't ya think

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

Annie: that is literally how I was today... day 13 was the only other day I was like that... that bad anyway... my husband told me I was sexy, and I started crying so what the hell is up with that... you were cleaning today? You deserve a "short" run so I really hope you stay cool... I'm amazed, really, and it's very encouraging for other people... Merchant: you asked, so I'm going to answer... day 4 was pretty rough.. 5 was ok, but 6,7,8, AND 9 were the worst for me & hubbie... I kept a journal so I'm not just going on memory... I have everything wrote down in detail... on a better note, day 11 and 12 were pretty good... hopefully you'll be like Annie... this might sound lame, but I'm proud of you girl... yeah, stay busy... everyone says that, but it's true... you won't feel like walking or going out or whatever, but it really, really does help.... I was walking all up and down the halls here at night because it has always been worse for me at night too... like I said before, we would take a ride to the lake with the music blastin'.... just to get out of the house for a little while.. you gotta do that or you'll go crazy... damn, you're making it girl... Fun Times: are you sticking to your plan of no smoking? I hustled and got a carton for $30 so I'm not quitting yet... don't think I could handle it right now anyway... also, when you do have "bad" days, what exactly are your lingering symptoms? I'm still only having like one, maybe two, good days inbetween all the bad..... better than nothing though so I'll shut up

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

Posts popped up... Merchant: you're right, you both tapered very low so hopefully her timeline will hold for you too... it will be so awesome to have everyone on here off subs for good...

queenie 3 years ago

subfree. just relax and feel whatever it is your feeling. they are only feelings. Journaling helps sort out your thoughts and also purge feelings. If its any consolation....i cry all the time. I cry at work over patients, at meetings when i see someone struggling, when my periods coming i cry sometimes for no reason at all . Its ok to cry your not cracking, your healing. love Queenie

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

I mean, it is so awesome to have everyone off subs not will be...

queenie 3 years ago

I jumped off at like a tiny crumb, prob less than 1 mg. Subfree , maybe you were crying when your husband said you were sexy cause you knew it was weiner time! lol OH YEAH! alright you nuts i have work from 7 to 7. good nite everyone

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

queenie what was your jump off

and shit cry all day at least your not numb

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

I hear ya Queenie, but what I went through today just isn't normal... but it passed like Fun Times said so it's all good... not used to not being numb... I'm embracing it though... gotta push through - just didn't expect that shit today, it being week 5 and everything... I'm pushing for Merchant and Plaininsane... ready for everyone to be at peace... atleast through the worst... doing good guys...

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

dude i love this site seriously i wished ya all liked by phillie pa so we can have an after subs party like go out to eat at some posh resturant that would be bad ass

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

funtimes! where r u i just tried aim

Fun Times 3 years ago

Queenie...i knew u loved me...even though i am a pussy. (u are what u eat ;) ) merchant...the gats were on my neck...not in lyrics. just an FYI. u started, big girl...don't forget that. ur boyfriend...not my girlfriend.

annie-iam thrilled u have college kids that could rhyme. i wish they taught that way in law school.

subfree- i love talking to you on the posts...b/c u have made it through some days. (Queenie makes it up to me...lol!) The lingering effects for me were an absolute lack of motivation...bordering on being pralalyzed. that sucked. real low energy. sleeplessness...for a couple/few weeks. and i would go to being really sharp to burned out and tired b/c of sleep deprivation. right at the same time you are. i'm holding tuff on the smokes...buts its kinda of a bitch. no patches...no gum. i'm alive. thats cool enough.

there will be some tuff times subfree. but i make meetings. i dont use. and life keeps getting better. i wasn't cured in 4 weeks. 4 months is coming up. i'm getting better. stay in touch.

Fun Times 3 years ago

merchant..glad were cool...i hope. im gonna try and get on aim. Sloane 007.

Fun Times 3 years ago

dig lady..what is your id...it said merchant of eath is offline...try Sloane027..do u have a different id?

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

Hey Merchant, I got an idea... we can all meet up in Florida at Fun & Queenie's wedding...LOL....

FunTimes 3 years ago

I just got through chatting with merchant. she is cool as hell. subfree...u r too. you are both invited...although it may be in Chicago. I do like the Florida beach wedding thing though. i like u alot subfree. stay cool.

Fun Times 3 years ago

my bad annie...you teach high school...not college ;)

Fun Times 3 years ago

Queenie..subfree...anyone. Now I told merchant during a very pleasant chat that day 2 was the motherfucker of all motherfuckers. I expect you all agree. Aside from that..some of us recall days of pain. but we're all cool. merchant needs to know that. after dy 2...fuck...its all downhill. especially with her scientific taper. Please...save the horrer stories to her. Focus on how much cooler things are. i know u guys already are coll like that...but dont reak this girl out. okay. please. i told her i am glad as shit that i never visited this site unti 72 days off subs. the fucking stories were way worse than the reality. and i kicked like a motherfucker. 8 to zero. not proud of it....it was stupid. merchant is smart. lets focus on be honest and POSITIVE. thanks.

merchantofdeath 3 years ago

hey i have a question is anyon out there?

Fun Times 3 years ago

u mean beside me?

queenie 3 years ago

Fun Times, your really funny (you are what you eat). And as far as the wedding goes.....lets see if this guy is worth his weight in the sack first. If we did get married, you girls can be my maids! Merchant, once again it was a very small crumb i jumped off at. prob like .5. Stay strong girl. Just get thro these next few days and you will be straight. If i did ,you can do it too. Take alot of showers they really seem to help when you are most uncomfortable. Drink alot of water to flush your system. Im pulln for ya! Well everyone, while you guys are hanging in cyber world i'll be busting ass at work. When im clean i love going to work. Its very satisfying and i feel productive. Its 4:30am eastern time and i must get moving. Have a wonderful day everyone! Oh and Merchant, i love philly! Tho last time i was there i ended up in the county....ouch. oh well, the life of a nurse/drug addict what are you gonna do! love ,The Queen

Fun Times 3 years ago

me in the sack? better ask somebody. lol.

Fun Time 3 years ago

great nite sleep. i hate mornings anyway. how u doing merchant? subfree? everyone? i still alive. by the way, isnt it great...my future bride was arrested in like 20 states. what the fuck? lol.

queenie 3 years ago

only two but hey let that exemplify what happens to sweet, kind ladies when you continue to abuse narcotics. It takes you places you dont want to go peoples. Get off and stay off! How many times you been roped off nigga? Just cause you dont travel...........

Fun Times 3 years ago

please....

LastTime 3 years ago

Hello i just spend 3 hours reading these post and am very inspired now to stop more than ever. I have a questtion i takle oxys and methadones, and once i cant get those i take suboxone. The last 3 or 4 days i was using methadone and this morning didnt have any and was feelinbg a lilttle sick and took suboxone(too early appearently i've heard (and now know) all about takin too early) and got really sick all day. So when/can i take another dose of suboxone now? cause thats all i have. Im iffy on taking another one and feeling worse. any input? Thanks Alot.

LastTime 3 years ago

Hello i just spend 3 hours reading these post and am very inspired now to stop more than ever. I have a questtion i takle oxys and methadones, and once i cant get those i take suboxone. The last 3 or 4 days i was using methadone and this morning didnt have any and was feelinbg a lilttle sick and took suboxone(too early appearently i've heard (and now know) all about takin too early) and got really sick all day. So when/can i take another dose of suboxone now? cause thats all i have. Im iffy on taking another one and feeling worse. any input? Thanks Alot.

Fun Times 3 years ago

hey lastime. welcome. never mind the fucking around...some people cant help themselves. anyway...i had to detox to 30 mgs of methadone before taking subs. in fairness...that kinda sucked a little. in real fairness...i might have used xanax to take the edge off.

anyway...what is your meth dose. i heard taking subs while high on opiates is a motherfucker of a clusterfuck. be wary. apparently u know this. how long since u took meth and how much?

queenie 3 years ago

Last time, do not take until in to W/d. Noy just alittle sick but sick. That guy on top of me is right......clusterscrew (i dont swear)

LastTime 3 years ago

I take 3-5 10mg's a day of methadone. I dont usually mix anything with suboxone, once im sick and dont have anythign else i take the suboxone. I took 3 at around 12 noon, the followoing morning (today) i took first 4mg of suboxone then 10 mg's more, thinking it would help but it didnt. I actually just took 2mg almost 2 hours ago and am feeling ALOT better so i think i found my answer but thank you. You guys seem cool.

Fun Times 3 years ago

merchant dear...how are you? ill stay up late if you need me, just to talk. You are too special in my eyes for me not to try my best to help you. You are as Ive said...truly truly gifted. Ill fight (as much as i can) to get u through this.

Subfree...plesae tell me how u are. I really care about you too.

Foreverannie-todays the day u tell us all u are cured. merchant needs your inspiration. dont take that responability lightly. share what God gave u to others. and if u are not totally cured...then share that. we care for each other round here. jokes are jokes. lives are lives.

lastime...did u think about what i asked? we all want to help u. let us try.

love u all...yeah... i met Queenie on this site. and she has brought me so much joy and laughter...it is honestly unbelievable. i love her...and weve never even met.

foreverannie 3 years ago

2 weeks clean,:

Funtimes, sorry been busy with work, etc. I'm not going to say I'm cured just yet. Yes, I still feel great and getting stronger every day, but last night I had a few small muscle spasms in my arms and legs- nothing major. I was up for an hour, took a Unisom Sleep Melth and went back to sleep. also, today is the 1st day I have worked a full day and will be from now on till summer. I felt decent, maybe a little weak, which could have very well been from anxiety. So therefore, I'll wait a couple of more days :).

Fun Times 3 years ago

thanks foreverannie. its great that you are doing as well as you are. it sounds like u r getting better fast, which tells me that you are mentally strong and that you must have a great mind set. keep it up lady. i'm very proud of you.

how can i really be proud of someone i have never met, just heard about a few day ago, and will never meet? its b/c we share something that very few people shared. overcoming this miserable thing. the only people i know who have done something similar are in NA recovery groups. they made it...and they teach me through their knowledge, experience, and understanding how to stay clean. and they are a grateful and great bunch of friends.

i know this "kick" is something that we all have in common. you and i are both 4 year users of this shit. thats a long time, as we know. i will be 100% honest: when i was chatting with merchant last nite and she was telling me about how u inspired her i said its great that annie inspired u, but my opinion is "bullshit...i have never heard of someone using subs for 4 years and say at day 13...'i'm cured!"

we suffer from a disease called addiction. there is no cure. you and i are addicts. i know what u meant...u felt the wds would be cured. i told merchant "i promise...annie is not posting that she is cured tommow". and frankly...i'm kinda glad...b/c if u did...i would have thought u used something...too much tramadol, klonopin, whatever. u felt like admitting yourself into recovery to almost being cured with only one intervening event: u took pills. something about that sounded amiss to me...but i know u are on your way to being cured of wds.

that said: i was able to get back to work in two and a half weeks. i wasn't myself, but i did it. it was kinda tuff...but i managed. after 4 weeks things were getting really nice...then Bam! i started feeling paralyzed through utter lack of motivation. it was hard to get off the floor or the couch...shower...dress up....look presentable...and go to work. it was so so easy on the subs. even after using C all night (i quit H many many years ago...and never used oxys/oxys/k4s or that stuff).

so like subfree...i felt really good not too long after kicking. but i regressed without using any drugs. i'm telling u this b/c its good to know its normal if it happens to you.

you have a truly excellent frame of mind annie. i think it is actually a great thing to say "the worst is past...i am cured". i believe in self fulfilling prophesies...and u r setting yourself up for a great one. well done annie!!!!

Fun Times 3 years ago

Subfree...merchant...are u guys ok? Queenie...as always...i sincerely enjoyed talking to you tonight. SINCERELY. i do evey single time we talk...you are great! really...this is the first time i've been clean since ive been a man...and woman...talking to u is often (almost always) the best part of my day..bar none. tonite was no exception. i think jerry mcquire said it but i'll repeat it: "she makes me want to be a better man". i met her on this site. we dont talk about sex. we talk about recovery and share laughs about silly stuff. she makes me laugh so hard...and i hope everyone can get 1% of what i got through this site. I got to make the coolest friend i ever imagined that i could make online. or in real life.

laughter at this point of my life is priceless. we laugh so much togather. unlike me, Queenie has substantial recovery time. so i also learn from her. its just the best. i'm saying this in a post for 1 reason. i hope someone else on this site can make a great friend like i did. someone who is sharing getting better. it is priceless

PlainInsane 3 years ago

Another sleepless night, Sunday no sleep, Mon about 2 hours in 20 minute intervals, last night 2 ambien cr's and 3 hours of restless sleep. Haven't touched the sub since i took .5 mg on Sat. The previous 22 days took a total of 5mg, .5mg every couple days. before that I was on 16mg every other day for 5 years. I have to work 10 to 11 hrs 5 days a week and have not missed any work. I think I may die soon. My body is so weak and tonight I have RLS and haven't tried to go to sleep because I know I can't. My dr. was supposed to call me in a script of clonopin but decided I'd be better off with Lunesta. A misunderstanding between my wife and me tonight and I ended up without the script. The pharmacy is closed now so I'm going to enjoy another sleepless night. I have meetings starting tomorrow @ 8:00 and will probably run till noon. I feel pretty freaked out around other people due to my state which makes it hard. I keep thinking i should turn the corner soon but I'm feeling worse day by day. I'm scared to come home and try to sleep but am to weak to do anyhting else. I'm pretty amazed at what a body can take.

Fun Times

Your a kick in the ass and a real inspiration. You are one who tells it like it is and you are real. I wish everyone well. Be tough everyone. I would rather crash and burn then to give back into this. Somehow i'm going to get thru this even though i tell myself i can't take this anymore several times a day. I tought I was pretty tough with a high pain tolerence and a strong mind but I now know the only way i'm getting thru this is by the grace of God.

Fun Times 3 years ago

Plaininsane...man you have gone from 16mg every other day to .5mg...great fucking job!!!!. Dude...I'm glad you realize that God is carrying you through this thing. There was no way I did it on my own. No way.God carried me through this shit. I KNOW THAT! Shit...this is how i useed to get through work: i'd promise myself every fucking day that i was going home early. Work piled up...i didn't really care. I was kinda like u: "fuck it...this shits killing me anyway...i aint stressing about this job. I'll do my best. If God wants me to keep it...I will. if not...I won't".

I have a professional job. I used to be wired at work (hyperactive...didn't use til after worka). Now i just chill out. people could see the "this fuckers gonna break" look in my eye when i was running on a horrible 2 hours sleep. they left me alone. i told my boss i was quitting xanax...half true...and that it was breaking me. he was supportive...not bragging but i am "in demand" at my work...when i do work...i get shit done other people their cant. when i can muster up energy i work furiously...then take a break.

so daily i would promise myself i would leave early...and i meant it. then when that time came i just said fuck it...and stuck around a little longer...until finally the day was done. NA meetings really helped me keep myself sane, they were and are like decompression chambers after work. i went to over 100 in 90 days all over chicgoland...until i found good ones i like. i usually hit 6 a week...i gave myself one day off to chill.

man...you are gonna turn the corner soon. u took 16mgs every other day for 5 years...i took 8 day for about 4 years...sometimes 12. i wish i had a wife to comfort me a little...it cant hurt. luicky motherfucker. LOL! u can always go lay on the couch or floor to be alone when your legs are kicking. I'd buy Xanax online if i were u...i would. that shit helps u sleep in the begining and takes a serious edge off the anxiety and kicking. it helps u relax.

can you take 1 week off work? tell them you got a bad flu man. that swine flu is freaking people out. i took 2.5 weeks off. of course my desk looked insane with files and paperwork when i got back...but i just did what i could...and gave my body a fucking break.

one day my boss was pisssed at me about some petty bullshit. he was screaming. then yelling. then just mad. finally the guy (good guy) gave up when he realized i hadn't gave a shit about his rant. (i was honestly hoping to get fired i was so fucked up...unemployment checks seemed like a fucking miracle cure). When he was done i told him as calm as can be (which i never was able to before....)

I said: "I'll do my best...i really will. But I need you to understand...this is my job...not my life". he totally respected that. i aint trying to blow smopke up your ass....you really are doing great. and as long as u dont pick shit up. hey 5mgs in over 20 days aint shit and we both know that. not from 8 a day. it aint a race my man. just remember...as long as u keep taking the same or LESS...ur getting clean. dont kill yourself with some dumbas addict "i have to be on zero yesterday shit". your deling with your life. just keep being sensible and u r doing great! And stay hard motherfucker! I'll say a prayer for u tonight. Stay fucking hard!!!!

PlainInsane 3 years ago

Fun Times

God is very important in my life. I'm a addict that hardly ever misses church. I pray several times daily. God is number 1 in my life and always has been, I just forgot to turn everything over to him. I always thought I could let him run 80% of my life and I could take care of the rest. My faith and Gods grace will carry me thru. It's midnight here and I tried to lay down for 45 mins. Kicking legs and keeping my wife awake so I'm back up. I'll try to lay down around 4:00 and relax till 6:00 when I have to get ready for work. I would love to take a week off but I run about 70% of our companies work and everything will go to shit. My boss who is the owner is a great boss but I feel like I'll be letting him down. I'm in charge of multi-million dollar projects and if i'm gone it could cost the company greatly. Your work ethic sounds so similar to mine. I always say as soon as 8 hours is up i'm outta there-never happens, some nights its 8 or 9 before I leave. My wife is very supportive of me, been married almost 22 years with 3 girls. Marriage is tough though, I 've put her thru hell and vise versa, many times close to divorce but because of our faith we've fought thru it. We have finally over the past 3 years become very good friends-best friends in fact. I think we've finally made it over the hump in our relationship. Come to think of it marriage is kinda like a ass kickin wd too. Once you get over the hump life is good. Thanks for the prayer-very much appreciated. I will also be saying prayers for you. your certainly helping a lot of people here. Thank you also for all the incentive, you really are helping me fight this. Take care and talk soon.

foreverannie 3 years ago

Fun Times, I want to respond to your last comment because I am truly insulted and let me tell you why... First, I've said this before and I'll say this again....I don't feel that taking a Klonopin and Tramadol 1 time cured me, but the sleep I was allotted allowed me to get the sleep that healed my body. Therefore my symptoms went away. Yes, for a couple of nights afterwards, I recieved small spasms, but I promise it was very minor. Just something I mentioned to the group. Maybe your just stuck on the words "I'm cured" which are words that I just used to make light of the situation.

There are some suboxone users that do not have any withdraw symptoms and some that heal within a few days. We are all different. You may be still experiencing depression, weakness such a few months later and I'm sorry for that but I'm not going to take what you say and think "Oh no, a few months from now I will be doing the same"...we are all diifferent and we should respect those differences on this site. I just think we should be pushing everyone through with the positive.

Merchant, if I inspire you, then thats great. I want nothing more than for you to kick that habit. You may do better than me and I hope you do :)

Plain Insane,

You are truly an inspiration. Your strength is amazing! I can emphasize with the way you feel. I had the exact same thoughts. I know you will get through this. As soon as you get a good nights sleep, your body will heal. Also, I bought Lavender Body Salt at Walmart for achy legs, restlessness, etc. It was 5 bucks and I used it for a hot bath. It really soothed me :)

foreverannie 3 years ago

Plain Insane,

I just reread your posts and wanted to tell you that in my opinion, just quit taking subs all together. You already know what the WDs feels like and if your feeling this bad on .5, then just kicking the habit puts you closer to recovery. Just a thought. Annie

foreverannie 3 years ago

Plain Insane,

I just reread your posts and wanted to tell you that in my opinion, just quit taking subs all together. You already know what the WDs feels like and if your feeling this bad on .5, then just kicking the habit puts you closer to recovery. Just a thought. Anni

Fun Times 3 years ago

annie...you have a knack for beiung truly insulted. and unlike merchant...who i had my differences with...we still wound up chatting with simply b/c i offered/she asked...whicever....but we both cared enough too. you are something else. take the petty few words that rubbed you the wrong way and hold 'em tight. it apparently makes you feel good.hold 'em really fuckin tight. it sounds like you need to.

"Fun Times- nice how you can make poetry out of song lyrics. I used to use that technique with my high school kids-lol" i don't give a shit about that...and i wasn't insulted. im a fucking adult. ohhhh. lol.

lets both choose to forget what i told you: "its great that you are doing as well as you are. it sounds like u r getting better fast, which tells me that you are mentally strong and that you must have a great mind set. keep it up lady. i'm very proud of you." and

"you have a truly excellent frame of mind annie. i think it is actually a great thing to say "the worst is past...i am cured". i believe in self fulfilling prophesies...and u r setting yourself up for a great one. well done annie!!!!"

b/c they aren't helping you feel angry, they were nice words of encouragenment:

you took "so like subfree...i felt really good not too long after kicking. but i regressed without using any drugs. i'm telling u this b/c its good to know its normal if it happens to you."

to mean this:

You may be still experiencing depression, weakness such a few months later and I'm sorry for that but I'm not going to take what you say and think "Oh no, a few months from now I will be doing the same".

how u sounding? like a scared woman..and thats fine. like an insulted woman...despite the kind words. i know people like you...i dont talk to them either.

"Fun Times- nice how you can make poetry out of song lyrics. I used to use that technique with my high school kids-lol"

you're very trite. and your secret job that nobody would believe sounds like the genuiinely lesat impressive thing ive heard of. your not practicing medicine, law, runnining multi-million dollar projects, a student in the army...your a fuckin high school teacher. wow. we wouldn't believe that. its wayyyy beyond us. whatever.

Fun Times 3 years ago

plaininsane...my man. Man you sound cool. I make it to church too. I told sexy queenie how happy i was that i had my first clean Easter in at least 20 years. I don't know ur faith...but Easter is the big deal for Christians...which if u r one...u obviously know. That was so cool. I went to a meeting in the morning, church later, and actually showed up at "Easter with the family" which rocked. People were looking at me so curiously...like i was a ghost. I didn't make family events in a few years. It felt great. I reconnected with my sister, niece and nephew, and her cool husband. I was great when they were born but addiction just started isolating me. I stayed so late i almost crashed there.

I know how that work deal goes. I know how those 7 to 8 om days go. What can you do? Just keep doing something... I realized that I could honestly work all weekend alone (with no questions/meetings/distractions) and i still would have work to do. I put it all in God's hands, prioratize as best i can, and do what i can. so far...so good.

I really really want you to know that it gets better brother. After 3 almost 4 months...work is getting cool again. Im 100% at least 90% of the time. Before I was 70% half the time. My boss owns our company too. They both built these companies (ive known my boss for 25 years..when he had nothing. fate, and his cool nature, allowed me to have a great job with him). Sounds like your boss appreciates and recognizes how vital u are (and thats not bragging...some things are just true...i believe u 100%), and so he knows that "i need plaininsane. if he's a little off...it's cool. he'll get better". our bosses own our companies b/c of their good judgment.

its nice to have a guy on this site. the women (most) are great. but i like hearing a guys point of view. and its super cool to hear that your a God loving and faithful guy too. Becaue so am I.

Take care man. truly...it only gets better. u know the serenity prayer. live it as best u can. peace.

PlainInsane 3 years ago

Foreverannie

I haven't touched a sub in 5 days and will not. Even though i'm sick as hell and haven't slept 5hrs in the last 3 nights my adreniline is kicking in. I'm actually getting some pretty heavy adreniline rushes now. I will not give into the beast!!

Fun Times

Thanks for everything. I am a christian and Easter and Christmas are important to me. If jesus didn't beat death then our lives are pretty worthless and I would continue down the road of destrution till it killed me. I actually got about a hour of sleep last night. I made it to my 8:00 a.m. meeting but then called in and said I was going home for the day. I think my boss understansds when he is receiving emails from me at 1:00 in the morning discussing work. If I can get some sleep tonight I'll be able to make it thru tomorrow and then I'll have a couple days to rest. I just took a valium and hopefully I can crash a little while. You have given me what it takes to say no way to anymore subs. I'm starting to feel invincible and I know what to expect in the furture. If this will start getting a little better I can kick its ass. I've made it this far and i can't see it getting any worse. even if i improve a couple % a day I can manage. If I felt 25% better now it would feel like a 100%.

I'm starting to believe pain is my friend. It's almost a much better feeling than being numb. At least now I'm expressing emotion to my family. One of my co-workers said to me yesterday, "your not such a hard ass lately, you've mellowed, what's up with that" That pretty much proves that when i was on subs i was a different person.

Lyrics from a song by Days of the New. It kinda fits don't you think.

Alone with pain, I thought I'd made a friendWhy do you leave now is that what you've plannedWait your turn it's a long time before you'll breatheStay under water and tell me are you free

Cannot complain the pain will stay here for todayit seems to stayCannot complain the pain will stayCannot complain

I want to be there for you You can't seem to take this rideI want to be there for you now

You're not a shoulder if i'm the one to leanAs I see your red side when you always bleedWorld is a pea no it don't revolve around meIf anything I revolve around the world

Cannot complain the pain will stay here for todayit seems to stayCannot complain the pain will stayCannot complain

Talk soon!

Fun Times 3 years ago

Nice song. If you read my earlier posts you'll see i was burning myself in the shower (my pain receptors were dead)...i hit myself with a sturdy stick...i tried punching myself (and begging friends to join in) just to feel some pain. Man...i know what numb is like. I cannot take a scalding shower now. it hurts. before...it didnt at all. and i took long hot showers that would burn my skin today. those were strange days.

as for the people at work...i swear...everyone is so much cooler to me now. my job isn't like this website. there's no swearing and i work with enough women that i have to really watch out that i don't say ANYTHING that they will take the wrong way about ANYTHING (work stuff...not flirting shit...they know i don't do that).

but since ive kicked and felt numb and felt pain (it wasn't hell but it wasn't fun)...ive mellowed alot at work. trivial shit doesn't phase me anymore. i dont have the energy to be angry. or the desire. i really don't.

one day i was getting ready for work...fixing my hair...picking the right shirt (been skipping ties lately) and i was really trying to look sharp for work. and it hit me. nobody cares what shirt i wear. this girls getting a divorce, this guys kid is on drugs, this guys wife is sick...i realized that the world doesn't revolve around me. i was like a kid sitting home sick from school...thinking b/c i wasn't there...school must have been called off. it couldn't go on without me....right? now i'm starting to becaome an adult. its about time.

Fun Times 3 years ago

i forgot to say- Congratulations plaininsane. You're gonna make this. and everyday will get better. There may be an occassional ruff day or two...but not for awhile. maybe never. from where your at now..it ONLY gets better for a while. wait til another week passes. you'll feel like superman. take care man.

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

That's the fucking spirit Plaininsane... that's how you gotta be... Fun Times, thanks for asking about me... you and Annie play nice... Y'all, I'm really worried about Merchant... do you think she caved? Are you out there girl? I had a really rough day yesterday.... and only slept about three hours last night - feel like I'm going backwards... but fuck it, I'll be ok... Fun Times, I totally hear what you're saying about family... I guess everyone gets isolated when they're an addict... fucking sucks... I am lucky to have my parents, grandparents, and even great grandparents - brother and sister... I miss them all.... need to start spending more time with them... I, also, have really come to care for everyone on here.... FOR ANYONE OUT THERE THINKING ABOUT QUITTING SUBS or whatever... it really does feel good to be free of this shit... clean... drugs and alcohol have been part of my life for the past 10 years, and it's just taking time for my brain to heal... and I'm just going with it in the mean time... I honestly don't know how I could ever repay Queenie, Fun Times, and everyone else that has helped me through this... the closest NA meetings are over an hour away from me (yeah, I live waaaaay out) so this site really is my therapy... Thanks guys...

PlainInsane 3 years ago

No luck with the valium, although I feel a little wobbly everytime i lie down within 20 mins those creepy crawly feelings take over and keep me from sleeping. I have to get up. My stomach feels like its tied in knots also and nausea comes and goes. I just said with tears in my eyes "Is that all you got f-kin bring it on your not going to break me" This really helps being able to talk with people here. My wife is picking up the script of lunesta later today so I'll wait till 9 or 10 to take it and maybe it'll get me 6 hrs of sleep which would be a first in over 3 weeks. Does anyone recall how long the restlessness has been lasting. Thats one of the main reasons i cannot sleep. At 3:00 a.m. this morning i finally dosed off i can even remember dreaming then all of a sudden the restless body wakes me up and i look at the clock and it's 3:34 a.m. That was about it for my sleep for the night. Take care everyone and remember gain strength from all the positive attitudes here. This will pass and you will all be much stronger with more character.

Fun Times

I can handle an occasional rough day as long as i have a couple good days before it. When i was heavy into the oxy's and soma I often told myself i was quitting. I would go thru 2 days of severe wd's then give in. This time i'm on day 23 and this to me has been far worse because of the duration. I could never waste 23 days of this awe inspiring pain to go back to subs. You mentioned the swine flu earlier in one of your posts and that made me think-am i more vunerable to pick it up now. They closed a school witin 15 miles of my house because one of the kids had it. Well if I did get it i'd kick it's ass too. I know i have a strong immune system cause i only get a cold about once every 3 years and its been at least 10 years since i had the flu. Talk soon.

Fun Times 3 years ago

plaininsane...i gotta say...u r going at this like one bad motherfucker. i sincerely respect that. tis site is one of the few places i can let loose and say "fuck all that...i gotta get on with this", and not offend more than one or two people a day ;) honestly...i remember those fuckin 34 minute nite sleeps. and i said the same thing you are saying...FUCK YOU...THIS KICK AINT SHIT. now we both know not sleeping isnt that cool. there was one benefit for me: when i woke up after a short nap...MOTHERFUCKER I WAS COLD. ive said this probably half a dozen times...but really...I WAS FROZEN TO THE FUCKING MARROW FOR AWHILE AFTER WAKING UP FROM A NAP...FUCK AN HONEST 2 HOUR NITE SLEEP...THAT WAS TERRIFYING SHIT. sometimes i had so little energy and motivation i was like fucking paralyzed. no circulation. that was kinda ruff...but u know...what are u gonna do.

just keep being a hard motherfucker. fuck...i honestly wish you could get some elavil or syraquil. the dr. would give u elavil for back pain...its like a muscle relaxer and anti depressant. i know...strange. i dont advocate using drugs illicitly. it the dr. prescribes it...u will sleep with some elavil. pretty easy to get. makes lunesta look like a sugar pill. that shit is lites out my friend...and i know what its like to not sleep at all for 3 days in a row. u can use some sleep plaininsane. maybe try for elavil. no more restless legs. think horse tranquillizer. wake up fresh.

anyway...this shit aint nothing but a thang. it aint outlasting you my man.

Plain Insane 3 years ago

Fun Times

Yeah i took elavil years ago for depression, your right it would really put me out. I also took a drug called remeron for a month or so, but I could sleep for 20 hrs everyday while on it + I would have these nightmares and also bite my tongue everynight and hard enough that I would wake up with a mouth full of blood. i had to stop or I wasn't going to be able to work. I'm going to try the lunesta tonight and if it doesn't work I'll call the Dr. tomorrow and have im give me some elavil. I just need to get thru one day of work and then i can kick it for 2 days. At that point I could care less if I sleep on the weekend at least I know I don't have to get up and work and God willing i'll be feeling better by Monday. Hey are you a Blackhawks fan? I'm originally from Michigan and a die hard Redwing fan. I played hockey here in CA till I was 40. I'm actually skating again and going to get on a over 35 league in the fall. We could be seeing you in the conference finals. Watching a hockey game also gives me some peace and take smy mind off the pain. You are right this shit aint outlasting me. When I'm finally over the worst of it i'm gone to consider myself one of the baddest mofo's out there. (at least in my mind) I definately will also want to help other souls defeat this beast!!!

Fun Times 3 years ago

Plaininsane

i remeber using elavil for years. at my worst i took 300mgs AS SOON AS I WOKE UP, TO FACE THE DAY. thats fucked up. back when i took it to sleep and quit...the nightmares were fucking fierce. man. i read the side-effects. they called that shit nite terror. i found out why. that remeron sounds pretty fucking strong. some lunatic gve me some capsules called geodon. this is the only drug i have been too afraid to take. really. these capsules look like poison.

Honstley...after we traded Roenick i said fuck the Hawks. Im glad their playing well...BUT MY MOTHERFUCKING BULLS GOTTA WIN TONITE MY MAN!

Talk soon. STAY HARD!

PlainInsane 3 years ago

Fun Tmes

Last I looked they were doing it. There up with 2 mins left. Every game they've played with the celts has went to the wire. Pistons are on a down turn now. But I've seen them play really well for several years, although that group is going down as under achievers. Time to rebuild, on the other hand the Bulls are definately up and coming. Good Luck!!

PlainInsane 3 years ago

Fun times

Way to go Bulls. 3 OT's. They got to be tough in Boston or it will be over. As close as the games have been Chi-town should have great confidence knowing they already beat them there once. GOOD LUCK!!! Took the lunesta 1.5 hours back then laid down 30 mins. ago. Feels just like I snorted a bag of crank. don't think this shit gonna work and its going to be another long night. How long did it take bfore your started to get 4 to 6 hrs of sleep a night? Sleep has always been an important thing for me. I need to be at work at 7:00a.m. and during hunting season I'm often leaving my house at 3:00 a.m. to drive close to 2 hours where I duck hunt. Last year went to Montana elk hunting. Drove 1181 miles in 14 hrs. Talk about making time. I got on I-80 and set the cruise at 92 mph and sailed for hours on end. Had a great time there. What a beautiful State with yellowstone park and all.

PlainInsane 3 years ago

Well it's almost midnight and my lunesta is working well. I might of been blastin some coke. Work is going to kill me tomorrow but i'm going and will get thru the day. Hope everyone else is doing well. this could be my forth night in a row of less than 2 hrs of sleep. I think i'm headed next year to get a job on "The Deadliest Catch" I can hang with those guys putting 30 + hours in with no sleep. Sweet dreams everyone!!! tick tock, tick tock, tick tock, tick tock. Funny thing is i don't have any cravings for the subs, just a little shut eye.

subfreechikadee, foreverannie, queenie & merchantofdeath

Hope all is well with you gals.

Fun Times 3 years ago

Plaininsane

3 fucking overtimes!!! Ding-a ling muthefucker...I hope my boys roll hard down in Boston. My advice to the Bulls...let Rose go to the fucking hole...make him. and make Tyrus Thomas sit down with Dennis Rodman for an hour and learn how to be a man! Fuck...i saw tyrus leap over the fucking backboard! really, this mutherfucker has springs. why cant he man up already?!?

I gotta say...that is some hilarious shit. took lunesta ...might as well have snorted some crank. Laugh out fuckin Loud! thats a fuckin classic!!!! Hey man...were all opiate addicts here. we live to fuckin sleep. take a hot shower man. clear your head. get some elavil. it took me about 3 weeks to get 4 hours a night.

Sounds like you did some cool shit. My dad used to hunt ducks here in Illinois. I happy when the salmon roll in ;) You'll be cool man. wait til this weekend comes. your body will quit pumping all the adrenaline due to work and anxiety, and u'll crash like a king.

take care.

PlainInsane 3 years ago

Fun Times

Just getting to leave for work. Actually took another Lunesta around midnight. got 3 to 4 hrs of sleep, broken up but at least my wife said she heard me snoring for awhile. Definately feel a little more energy this morning other than the wobbles from the lunesta that still hasn't cleared my body. Anyways off to work I go. Have a great day and we'll talk tonight.

Fun Times 3 years ago

lucky dog. good for you man. i know if you were into opiates and Soma...you loved your sleep man. i am VERY gald u got some. I am suprised Lunesta worked. pleasantly suprised. that is great fucking news. see u go from being all cranked up to given 4 hours of sleep.

beats 34 minutes don't it ;) just give your 20%. God has the rest.

FYI: Mutherfucker it's FRIDAY!!!!! Have Fun!!!! or just chill ;) Talk soon.

PlainInsane 3 years ago

Day 25, Made it thru work, actually had my best day in the last 2 weeks. Still tired from getting a total of about 5 hrs of sleep this week but, I got two days to rest. If I can't sleep tonight i could care less, don't have to work tomorrow or sunday. Just watched my Wings beat the Ducks and that was great. Everyone have a great weekend and be tough!!

Fun Times

Good luck to the bulls. I actually despise the Celtics. Kick their asses and have a great weekend. I honestly think I'm finally making the turn. I know there will still be many bad days to come but if i have a good day in between then it gives me the energy to fight thru it. I'm starting to feel like steel, although it still hurts and plays on my mind I know I can kick its ass. After all if God's with us who can mess with us. It's like David slaying Goliath. Nobody messes with God's children.

Fun Times 3 years ago

Plaininsane

I'm really pulling for you man. I may repeat some things i posted weeks ago, but thats cool: for one...i don't expect we'll ever meet. yet i still really care that you get well. i really like you man. you are very God centered, and i myself truly appreciate that. i know David v. Goliath isn't esoteric...but its a perfect analogy. i'm glad you're here man.

i doubt you're Catholic...i was raised Catholic. i consider myself simply Christian today. i'm not blind to 'bad stuff' that happened in Catholicism, and i dont adhere to all its tenets. but i am proud i went to a Catholic/Christian garmmar school, high school, university, and law school. they taught middle eastern religion at the university..but obviously they taught Christinaity mostly (in theology of course), but they never taught Catholicism. i was an altar boy for the current Cardinal (Francis George) in the biggest archdiocese in America...when he was just a starting out as a priest. he was cool. wow time flies.

its amazing we can be cool about sports. detroit and chicago. we've had a rivalry or two ;) yeah...fuck boston. they bought a team last year. big deal. shit...they were never the bulls or pistons...even back in their white men cant jump larry bird days. lol.

u know people come and go on this site. i stay on and stay clean, and help anyone i can. people helped me a lot. Queenie more than anyone. i just got off the phone with her. she's an incredibly inspiring person. she has a gift, she's really hot too;)

i'm gald your here buddy. please stick around. its makes me feel better just hearing from you. this is the first time ive really been clean since i was a grown man...so i appreciate any help i get.

congratulations on making it through work. i have a very good idea of the intensity and diligence your job requires. you really kicked as this week by toughing it out and staying hard. very well done man.

by the way...i have this theory. one of my prayers now is worth more than 17 years of junkie prayers combined. i believe that. i'll pray for both of us, Queenie, and everyone trying to recover. God Bless you bro.

PlainInsane 3 years ago

Fun Times

Actually was raised babtist but my wife was raised catholic. Dosen't really matter as long as you know where your heart is with God. I'm the typ of person that gets along with anyone. I take people at face value. I'm definately staying on this site even after I feel I've got this thing put behind me. I want to help others to get thru this. It's great talking with you because as i stated before "Your Real" and also brutally honest. Thats an admiring quality. just because we may never see each other doen't mean we cant continue talking here. Who knows some day when i'm passing thru to Michigan we could meet. I own 74 acres in a town called Gladwin Mi. and thats where i plan on building my home and retiring at. I was fortunate to buy a home here in 89 and although $190,000 seemes like a lot of money I sold it 10 years later for $384,000 put that money into a bigger house and even with the recession this house is still worth $650,000. If things turn around in the next few years it'll jump back up to around $850,000 which it was at a couple years back. I love your theory and will be praying for you also along with the others here. Glad that Queenies been such a great friend and help to you. Doesn't hurt that she's a hottie too. You always wonder what people you talk to look like and when you meet them your hardly ever right. Here's a picture of me so to speak. 5' 10', 179lbs graying brown hair, bluish green eye's depending on what I wear. Since I was a teenager i've literally had 1000's of people tell me I look like a young Paul Newmen- Probably a ugly one. But I have had my share of beautiful women. To bad it took me so long to learn how to treat them. Well I think i'm there with my wife now anyways. She seems to think i'm pretty special and of course so do my 3 girls. I know god has me here for a reason because if not i'd surely have been dead by now. I was always the one in the goup that would try anything and do anything anyone dared me to do. I did some pretty messed up things when was younger and could of landed myself behind bars or 6 feet under. i'm sure god has a plan for my life and also for all of us here. we'll its 1:18 a.m. and im going to try and get some sleep. I actually feel like i can sleep tonight. If not i'll get up and let you no otherwise I'll talk to you tomorrow. Take care and God bless.

foreverannie 3 years ago

Plain Insain/Fun Times alter ego- your not fooling anyone. I just wanted to pop in to let you know that you are crazy if you think that it's not obvious that your the same person. Keep your game going, it must be a Fun Time for you. I will not be replying to any of your comments anymore.

I guess being an dumb English Teacher must have just taught me one thing- how to compare similiar phrasing, grammatical errors, and narcassism.

Fun Times 3 years ago

Plainsinsane

wake up man....you gotta read this post above. u cant buy this shit. tell me i was wrong about her. dont tell her anything...she'll think it was me. laugh out fucking out! UNREAL!

Really man..i know its not right...but that shit just made my morning. (i slept late).

Annie-you are a terrible fucking teacher...and a screwed up lady. i know...you cant help it. parananoia will destroya woman. already has.

Fun Times 3 years ago

PS. Annie...you cant spell very well. that cant be good for a teacher. i may make typos...but at least i know it and can spell. lol.

PlainInsane 3 years ago

Fun Times

If I am your alter ego, what a mind we must have. I live in CA. and you in Chi-town. I don't care anyway, you have been great help to me and I'll continue posting here. BTW, I slept from about 1:30 a.m. till 8:30 a.m. this morning. You can imagine my delight when I woke up I had tears in my eyes I was so happy. I actually am feeling much better so far today. Maybe i'm finally turning the corner a little. The last sub I took was last Sat. and it was a .5mg crumb. Well now we can carry on conversations between our alter egos and we won't be fooling anyone. That's really sad she believes that because she was inspiring me also and now she doesn't even believe there is a me. "Bulls Baby" fiinish it tonight!!! Good luck Bro!

Fun Times 3 years ago

Plaininsane

7 hours sleep. God that is great news. I am VERY glad to hear that. You seem to be geeting better bigtime, and i know u had a hard kick, shit we all did, and i when i hear someone has turned the corner on this motherfucker...it just makes me feel good.

You know plaininsane, i actually do care that some people might get help, even a tiny bit, frome this site. and when someone says

"Fun Times:

Good Luck to you,you may not realizethat you really helped me a couple of days ago. It was nice to have someone that understands what I was going through. You are truly gifted in helping others and I really hope you at least check in daily :0"

that means alot to me. plianinsane...i have alot of days off subs..but it is helping me that you are here. it really is. we can tlak about kicking, God, sports, work, anything...but knowing that we are both coming rom a certain place (a couple guys who are getting clean for the first time in at least a decade) gives us something to truly relate to each other about.

you're right. i shouldn't care and don't care either about infantile stuff. i wasn't that upset, but c'mon...this site has been important to my recovery, yours, and others. so it does matter a bit to me. i have to be honest...i was dissapointed...because i hope a couple people (mechantofdeath and subfree) who i was really pulling for didn't somehow get turned off by this person and their brilliant idea on this site or any other, (man/woman..who knows what annie is, addict/bullshitter...who knows...for the first time it occurred to me that people might just be sick and trying to sabotage others, that is dissaointing)....like u said..i cant care, b/c i cant do anything about it.

Bull's baby. How about a Bulls Lakers Finals ;) that would be cool (if u like the Lakers). Incidentally...i don't think we look that different, just as an fyi type thing. Paul Newman really couldnt be called ugly. lol. Cool Hand Luke is one of my all time favorite films. when i was going through a ruff part of my kick, i actually thought of him. instead of complaining I sat back and told myself "every once in awhile i get a pretty cool hand". take care bro. go Bulls!

Plain Insane 3 years ago

Fun Times

Ah, the egg eating contest!!! What a classic movie. One of the greats. I'm here for you anyday anytime. I'm always checking for posts. I sure hope the other gals are all o.k. Haven't heard from any of them lately. Love to see the bulls get to the finals. love to see them kick the Cavs asses. LeBron just gets to many calls. He drives, nobody touches him and yet he gets the call. That SUCKS!! Not a laker fan though. I'm a die hard Michigan sports fan even with the hapless Lions. Sad how they ruined Barry Sanders. If he'd have been on any other team he'd of won a SB. Keep being you, thats how God made you. Your intellgent, witty and you have went thru hell and you have awesome painful experiences to share which will only make the people you touch stronger, if not those people are not yet ready to face their DEMONS!!! I'm finally kickin this shit-1. Because i know that is where my faith takes me and 2. because i can finally say I want this. It may be selfish but until i was ready to do it for me it just wasn't going to work. Talk later GO BULLS!!!!!!

BTW, this morning my wife called me her little Mexican jumpin Bean. Laughed my ass off. She had to take a sleeping pill last night just to get a good nights sleep due to my kickin it all night long for the last 3 weeks.

PlainInsane 3 years ago

Fun Times

Sorry to see the Bulls lose. I know how heartbreaking that can be. they're only going to get better with the talent they have though. They'll be back to the top soon. Had a fairly good day. Started draggin ass in the afternoon though. hopefully i'll get some sleep again tonight. Stay strong and i'll talk to you soon.

Fun Times 3 years ago

the young bulls tried. Rose and Tyrus have alot of potential, gordon and salomon are tight...they'll improve. really...after having the joradn era teams w/6 championships...im not greedy. rodman, piipen, kukoc and even kerr too...it aint getting that good again.

Lebron is a player...so is Kobe...but i watched jordan play 82 regular season games a year..plus playoffs. nuff said. dumars wa the only cat i ever saw guard him well..and that was mjs prime.

i hear u about Barry. thats how i felt about Walter Payton. yeah....the 85 Bears were insane (noonoe's ever gonna make me believe there has been a better defense)...but payton played so many years with no offensive line, quarterback, or game plan...other than handoff payton.

it made me sick seeing Barry have to start every play 4 yards BEHIND the line of scrimmage every fuckin play, running and spinning for his life just to get to the line. hey, we both know if Barry played for emmit smiths cowboys...they would be measuring his gains in miles not yards. its VERY HARD for me to say this: but Barry had moves that Payton didn't. and Payton was a great all around player...but he lacked break away speed. otherwise u could measure his gains in miles. on a bright note-this is the first time in the Bears history they have a quarterback. honestly. i'm not counting that one year eric kramer threw for 4000 yards. mcmahon was not a great qb. but its the bears. they got rid of bernard berriman last year...so we can now play on a 20 yard field with the safetys up....instead of streching it 80 yards and having options.

we'll see...at least the hawks are still in it. redwings ae like the old bulls...if they never win again...you've been lucky. im not a spoiled yankee fan. i dislike new york..as a rule..a lot. most chicagoans do..i hope.

as far as the kick goes...lets help each other. we both know its no fun...but it aint supposed to be. once u accept that...its simple. you have pain coming...maybe discomfort...and u wait abit and it goes away. mine is gone. now i just getting used to living life clean...i really do like this girl queenie...i wish she lived closer...but i wouldnt trdae talking to her for the world. u know...i enjoy talking to her more than ANY girl ive ever known...and we've never even met. God puts the right people in our lives when we need them. I bet your wife is already so proud of you. and i bet your marriage is really going to hit a new stride and be better than ever, as will your life...now that your mind has a layer of "numbness: removed rom it and u aren't living to work then sleep. right? hey...take care man. talk soon. thanks for checkin in and talking. i appreciate it alot. clean living is new...but i'm really liking it.

Plain Insane 3 years ago

Fun Times

if I'm correct she lives in florida? You should hop a plane down there for a couple days and meet her face to face. Can't cost that much out of O'hare. That is if she'd agree with it. I'm assuming you've talked with her on the phone several times. I've been telling my wife i would take her to Florida the last couple years and haven't got around to it. When I was 18 my neighbors had a shrmp boat out of Benita Springs The kids were shrimpers among other items they brought back on their boat. My friend and his father and myself drove down from MI. to pick up a load of shrimp to sell where we lived. I just went along for the ride. We left a 7:00 a.m and drank straight JD till 4:00 a.m. the next morning taking turns driving. At 4:00 I was driving and we were somewhere in Georgia, I couldn't see the road anymore due to double vision so i pulled of the side of the road. About 6:00 a.m. the sun started rising and the old mangot out of the back of the truck. I had parked in this red slime clay and we were stuck. He was pissed and threw a right hook to my check, still being quite drunk I told him if you ever do that again I'll knock your f-in head off. He was a trucker by trade so he had a CB and he radioed a trucker and in no time we were back on the road. We did have a great time while we were there though. Jakes going to be a great QB for you as long as your line protects him. The dude has a cannon on him. i was really hoping Detroit would get him but I doubt to many good players would really want to go there until they can prove they can protect a QB. Talk later.

Fun Times 3 years ago

cool story. i'll visit her..we kinda planned something. i notice u didnt comment on ur wife. lol. fun times! she has to b great to put up with u. really.

anyway. Wings 1...Ducks zero!

PlainInsane 3 years ago

Fun Times

The wings are looking shaky. End of period one. My wife is great and has put up with alot of my BS. But remember it takes two!!

Right after we had our 3rd child 1996 my wife was diagnosed with non-hodgkins lymphoma. The next year was hell. 7 months of chemo and 3 months of radiation. 13 years later and shes doing great. She plays basketball in a league everyweek. 2 months ago her baby brother (39 yrs) old is diagnosed with the same thing only his is at stage 3. He's thru 2 chemo's now and he's doing great. they say its not hereditary but I have a hard time believeing that. slept about 6 good hours last night but feel pretty shitty today. i'm definately better then I have been though, think its cause of the sleep. tonight is what scares me cause of work tomorrow. Well going to watch the rest of the game. Talk later.

Seroquilt Klonaman 3 years ago

New here.... Figured it was my crack at some bad advice, spelling, grammar, punctuation, and a fuck load of run on sentences. ahhhhh.

Now then.

I will be brief and spare everyone all the war stories we've heard time and time again. I'm 33 Male. Live right outside of Baltimore, home of the drive thru dope streets. started young. 15, weed, acid, whippets, shrooms, molly. 21 became an overnight alcoholic and addicted to any form of pain medicine. 23... Full blown Heroin addict. Snortin about $40 a day. few months later, IV use. Thats all she wrote once I stuck that needle in my arm. my $40 aday habbit quickly became $100 a day habit. lucky for me I was a some what functioning addict. I Bartended and made decent money and the nights that people didn't tip right, WHICH IS %20 for all you cheep assholes who came into my bar, sat all night askin, "YO!~ Day aint nuff licker en her!" so you make their drink stronger and they leave you SHIT! (anyone who has waited or bartended Knows exactly what I'm talking about!) shit..... I didn't mean to go there......Basically if I knew I had some shady Canadians or foreigners I would scam the fuck out that bar until I had enough money for my dope, and whatever the fuck I wanted that night.

This might not be the best advice to give but I will tell you this. IT FUCKING WORKED AND IT WAS AWESOME! I knew I had to get off dope, Heroin. The 1st time I detoxed off dope was a breeze. I know what you all are thinking...... I'm full of shit, this is BS..... blah blah blahh. Luckily for me I didn't limit myself to opiates I loved KETAMINE! I beat about %90 of all opiate withdrawal with steady injections, IM. I went through about a 10ml bottle a day over the coarse of a week and came out on top and with a different, yet somewhat twisted, look on life.

I said no war stories and check me out.... war stories....

anyways. I got back on dope for another 4 year bender this time my K hook up was Locked up...... oh the tangled webs we weave. I had to quit dope... I HAD TO! Checked into A treatment center, The Hope House" HA! the only "hope" I got was three new solid dope connects. anyways.... They didn't have suboxone, or Ketamine (lol), when I was there. They gave me clonodine, Blood Pressure meds to help cope with the withdrawals.... HA! BS! they gave me flexeril for achy mussels and a slew of other crap that really didn't do shit for me other than make me feel worse then I was already feeling. 30 days finally out of rehab.

2 days after getting out of rehab I was back on Heroin. Fuck me! Writing this down just seams to pathetic...... anyways. During my last bender of heroin, I thought maybe if I can get away from Baltimore maybe, just maybe I could beat it, even though everything I learned in rehab says it wouldn't work.

I move to Danville Virginia.... YEEE FUCKIN HA! Their was NOTHING to do there except smoke crack with my supposed clean sister who was took me under her wing. The only people I knew there was my crackhead sister and all her crackhead friends.... once I finally got over the last of the heroin withdrawals I got a job at Outback Steak house" Let me stop......

Are you seeing a pattern here, and I'm not talking about the shit spelling, another fucking restaurant job. WHY!?

I Probably don't even need to tell you what happens outback at the Outback. I don't know how it happened but I managed to squeeze in a GF through all this and turned her into a full blown heroin addict in just a short month. We would pull our money drive 7 hours to Baltimore to get GOOD dope, risking getting ripped off or popped by the cops than turn right back around and drive another 7 hours, 9 if your dumbass gets caught in rush hour traffic, back to Danville, Virginia. Lets wrap this up.....

Said GF gets pregnant, I kind of had an epiphany, and I got arrest twice one thrown out of my car at busy ass gas station in the middle of the ghetto in Bmore, they literally stripped off EVERY piece of clothing,handcuffed me and laid me down on the side off the road, during rush hour, face first. They ransacked my car and found nothing, You all know why they didn't find anything........ That's where my bottom, lol, Rock bottom happened. I'm reliving it all over again ........... My bottom was when I grabbed 6 $20 vials out of my..... Bottom and did them one by one by one by one by one by one...... wow......

My GF had no intentions on quitting since she was A LOT younger than myself. Pregnant..... What the hell was I going to to with a baby, a heroin addict GF, and me and my fucked up situation.

We, Pregnant GF and ME, move in to my parents house, came clean with them with most of whats going on and asked for help. I really. REALLY wanted it. Something ate away at me when I found out that I was going to be a father. Once we moved in their was no more heroin for me. The detox was something I can't even put into words, however, you probably all know ohhh to well. The worst part for me was the psychological part, yeah the aches and insomnia, barfing and shitting bile like acid every 15 min was bad, but the psych..... about day 5 of no heroin I go to suboxone, been on it now for close to 4 years..... I tapered down from 3 8mg a day to 2 1/2 8mgs a day for 3 weeks to 2 8mg a day for 3 weeks to 1 1/2 8mg for 3 weeks to 1 8mg for 3 weeks. After 1 8mg for 3 weeks I went to 3/4 for 2 weeks then 1/2 8mg for 2 weeks.

I felt NO withdrawal until the last day on 1/2 8mg. I still don't get it. I felt fine all the other 13 days at just a 1/2 8mg, why withdrawal now? For the next 5 days my withdrawal got worse, not as bad as dope but I felt like shit.

I had 2 8mg pills left. I chopped up 1 into 4 quarters, leaving me 4 2mg and 1 8mg and finito!! I took a 1/4 for four days until I was left with my last 8mg pill. Fuck it. I took the whole 8mg for my last day. Figured I could get in a full day of spinnin records without shittin myself in the middle of a fat double drop!

It's funny because I am now on day 5 and this has got to be the weakest ass withdrawal I've ever experienced. My Psych prescribed me 100mg of seroquel, for sleep which works okay. Ive tried them all. 3mg lunesta 10 mg ambien, 12.5 AmbienCR, 100mg Trazadone, melatonin BS. Seroquel is mainly used to treat people with schizophrenia and Bipolar disorder, however, it is also used as an alternative sleep aid. My doctor also prescribed me Klonopin. He prescribed it take 2 .5mg twice daily, a total of 2mg of benzodiazapam, which I also used to be addict to at one stage in my live only it was Ativan.

Now remember I'm only on day 5, fuck it in 4 hours it will be day 6,

make that day 6 and on a scale of 1 - 10. 1 being completely normal no dependency, er Human. and 10 being curled around a toilet lying in your own vomit and diarrhea looking like leo from BB diaries. I would have to say I am a 1.5 not even a 2. I can't explain it... don't get me wrong I get a wave or 3 throughout the day that puts that 1.5 to maybe a 3 but this whole Suboxone withdrawal is HORRIBLE thing is just not true.

My doctor said said the 1st day with no suboxone wont be that bad, however, with every passing day it will slowly get worse and worse untill about the 1 week mark and then you'll feel your worst for that week. On day 14 your body should slowly ascend back to normal just as quickly as it went from normal to

Plain Insane 3 years ago

Seroquilt Klonaman

Buddy, the worst may be on the way although I hope not. I was on 16mg of sub everyother day for 5 years. When i decided to jump I said f-it i'm done. The first 5 days I had no w/d symtoms at all. I thought I was superman. Day 6 started feeling bad, that was 26 days ago and I've suffered severly since then all while still working 10 hrs a day. 3 weeks of no more than 2 hrs of broken sleep a night and several nights with absolutely no sleep. 25mg of ambien cr and might as well snorted a bag of C. No sleep whatsoever. The last 2 nights with a combo of valium and lunesta and i've got 5 to 7 hrs. The kicking legs, yawns, sneezes, creepy crawlys all over the entire body, notted stomach and taking everything you have just to get your ass of the floor. Hopefully your body is different but I wouldn't think your out of the woods just yet. i've went thru opiate w/ds many times in my life and have never experienced anything close to the awesome pain i'm going thru now. It seem to linger for months. hang in there and hopefully you won't experience the same thing the majority of us here did. Good luck and be strong.

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

Oh yeah and damn dude....

Fun Times 3 years ago

subfree- you know lady...i care about some people on this site. u r one of them, i just want u to know that...and hopefully say hi once in awhile so i know how u r doing.

i hope u r ell. i really do. (remember...it was me that kinda said "welcome to the 'group'....we're glad u are here when u felt a little left out. i hope u let us know how u are doing, even if its one sentence. we're here to help each other. i need help too. now that u've been clean...i hope u stil stick around like me).

take care subfree. say hi to hubby, from a concerned online 'friend', whi has gone through and is going through the same stuff as you. be good.

Fun Times 3 years ago

plaininsane: hope work is going cool buddy. i meant to post to u earlier...but i wanted to give it some attention, b/c i was reading about what your wife went through, and it hit me kinda hard. i do wanna give u my opinion abiout something: worry about work when you are there. remember the serenity prayer. worrying about the future can be viewed as a lack of faith in God...although i'm not saying that is the case with you. i am saying that worrying about how things might be "bad' tommorrow never helps me. its a cliche', but i am trying to live one day at a time. i cannot affect my actions tommorrow, today. so i don't try. i can't change what will happen tommorrow, today (other than preparing the best i can), so i don't get my mind worked up about it. tommorrow will come soo enough. i just let it be.

Addiction may be a disease. ill speak for myself..i used for fun (until the drugs used me for fun). it makes me 'reassess' things when i hear stories like your wife's. she had a real disease. there was no impulse for fun with complete disregard to her health and the feelings of others...the total self-centeredness which is addiction, when she became very ill. and she had to face chemotherapy. that really makes me think about just what an arrogant asshole i was. good, honest people faced horrors...and i was a kid (supposed to be a man) just fucking around oblivious to anyone's cares but my own. and everyone's pain...which they didnt cause, and had to live with. it makes me a bit disgusted with myself...but that was the past. i'll let it be, and just keep trying to never act like that again, whether its about drugs or life in general.

even in my addiction i was ( and am really so now) very caring toward others. with one understanding: in my active addiction i was caring and nice and very considerate of others: AFTER I GOT MY DRUGS IN ME. before that...fuck everyone.

it is such a nice thing to care about people, without any kind of twisted 'understanding'. i dont need to be high to try to help someone...if i can. it feels so good to help someone. that is a beter high then drugs to me. i feel good...not 'dirty'. i don't need to be high to express my emotions or how i feel. i don't need to be high to live. so for the first time in my adult life...I am living. I am free. and i am very very grateful. and beyond that, i have a feeling life is going to start getting VERY good. things are lining up in a beautiful way in my life, ever since i put drugs down. Thanks God.

take care everyone.

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

Ok... here's the deal... I've been reading the posts & everything, but I was kind of chilling, letting the guys talk.... thank you so much for your kind words Fun Times... maybe I'm insecure, and it helps to know that people care.... I feel the same way, I genuinely care about people on here... there was a huge storm/tornado that came through here Saturday night/morning & the damn lights went out - fired the generators up, but the damn internet was out until this morning - so that's the second reason why I haven't been writing, and the third reason is REALLY BAD. Yeah, I fucked up. I fucked up. I fucked up. I wrestled with telling this.... but I feel like I can tell y'all anything, right? I can't just keep writing on here like it's all good.... I was on the phone with my friend I spoke of way earlier... the one I thought about cutting ties with... she asked did I want some xanax cuz she knew how I had been struggling (the past week has been hell), and it turned into do you want some tramadol, hydros, oxys.. what do you need? Yeah, I took some tramadol this weekend... and I felt normal for the first time in forever. I got stuff done that needed to be done, and I had my personality back I felt like... I'm just being honest. And I don't really feel bad about doing it... what does that say?? Am I unclean now?? They're all gone... I made sure of that, and I don't plan on getting any more, and I certainly don't plan on taking any opiates... especially subs... and I don't encourage this behavior at all... it happened, I had to tell someone... and I have to be honest about how I feel... be real, right Fun Times?! You ARE the one that made me feel welcome on this site... and I was starting to feel weird about that again so what you said really helped me... despite all the drama (which keeps it interesting) I do think you are one of the most sincere and caring on here, and I'm glad you didn't leave... and I'm not going anywhere either... I read this site everyday, always checking in (does that make me a dork?) Said it before, will say it again, I couldn't have made it through without this hub.... without the people here... can't say Thank you enough... and I obviously still need help and encouragement too - it's awesome having my husband by my side to go through this with, BUT it kind of sucks when I'm feeling worse than he is... I mean, I'm happy he's doing good, don't get me wrong... the lenght of this withdrawal process has just been getting to me... coming up on 6 weeks... but I am feeling better today than I was pre-tramadol, and I'm pretty sure it's totally out of my system now... so I don't think it has anything to do with that... my anxiety is down, and my brain is actually not on FIRE... wow... it feels weird... my brain has been fuzzy/burning for over a month - my withdrawals aren't gone, but they are very mild today so I'm thankful for that... I asked earlier... and I'll ask again, one last time... Merchant, you out there?? I prayed for her so much y'all... I think she gave in. Damn that sucks if she did. Plaininsane: you're doing great, and I'm happy to hear it... wanted to let you know that in the beginning those sleeping pills did the same thing to me... I would take one & be horny and wired.... that's what it did to me anyway... then after about two to three weeks I noticed when they actually started making me groggy... just takes time... but I knew that was your main problem, no sleep... and stress of work and everything... just to let you know my husband is off the sleeping stuff period, and he's sleeping VERY well... and it always got bad for me at night too... I'm anxious to see how tonight will be... I'll say this... no, melatonin didn't work in the beginning at all... but during week 5 my husband took it for about a week & it worked really well... he always had a problem falling asleep during the withdrawals, and I always could fall asleep but not stay asleep & it helped him to fall asleep so I dunno. Hope all is well with everyone... oh, and I was very happy to hear you feel almost 100% all the time now Fun Times... gives me hope... oh, and Queenie sounds like a really good woman, dont' fuck it up..lol.. check back soon...

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

I don't want y'all to get the wrong idea... I do feel bad about what I did, and I'm not going to do it again... I just need to forget about it, right?

Fun Times 3 years ago

ALRIGHT!!!!!! SUBFREE IS BACK IN THE HOUSE!!!!!! thats great news, honestly. there is absolutely no reason to even post if you are not honest...i mean really...who are you lying to...a bunch of people that you want to get better (in all fairness) but will never even meet (except the occassional queenie and me...yeah...i'm very lucky). but for each of us...this site is for us. I think i've only 'condemned' posts 3 times...w/o getting into names: 1. i didn't like when my remarks were taken the wrong way about addicts being smart, which wound us as two very nice ladies (u were one...and i apologized) calling the rest of the world stupid. but hey...i apologized and admitted my less than thoughtful response. everyone was hyped up early in withdrawal, and i dont like seeing even normal people getting put down. (if me and quennie wind up married with a couple 9-5s...that will be a dream for me). 2. i didn't like it when another young lady kept calling God the tooth fairy or santa...and i dont apologize for that. im sorry but God is too important to me and others, ESPECIALLY DURING THIS BRUTAL WITHDRAWAL FOR SOMEONE TO MAKE FUN OF PEOPLE'S FAITH, SOMETHING THAT MIGHT SAVE THEIR LIVES. I DON'T MIND SAYING AT ALL: I WAS ABSOLUTELY RECKLESS AND INSANE IN MY ADDICTION, AND BUT FOR GOD'S MERCY...I DONT BELIEVE I'D BE ALIVE. so if u dont believe in God...dont. dont put the rest of us down. and of course 3. annie's brilliant conclusion (after reading my encouraging post like a spiteful person) that me and a strugling addict named plaininsane...who only wanted help...were the same person...and she knew this cause she taught English, and i was crazy if i thought i was fooloing anyone. in plaininsane's words "annie, you really inspired me. now i realize that you don't even think theRe is a me. that's sad". enough said.

Subfre-first of all...sweetheart...you are clean off opiates. so u took some tramadol. its ok. odds are some of us might slip up...and actually take opiates! it doesn't erase all your hard work. i read u were in tears, and u did what u did with good intentions. i dont think u were trying to get high. u were trying to hold your life togather. thats different. even if you told us that u broke down and took opiates, i would say this with all my heart:

THE SHAME IN ADDICTION IS NOT THAT YOU USE AGAIN. THE SHAME IS NOT GOING BACK AND CONTINUING YOUR RECOVERY AFTER YOU DO. please remember that everyone. you can't dwell on mistakes (if they even are mistakes). the past is history. i said this before and i'll say it again...i dont care how much clean time someone has...i care about how they are doing TODAY. today is all we got...make the next right move today, and all will be well.

plaininsane...ive been on this site for awhile and i shouldve known better than to start with the Bulls and guy talk. this is a recovery site, period. I'll give u my email and we can bullshit about non-recovery stuff there.

and subfree...once again you've made my day. first because of your kind words...which mean very very much to me (cause this withdrawal can be a beast...and helping anyone may just be saving a family or a life...so that feels good). and second, and more importantly: BECAUSE YOU ARE BACK! you know...you're still invited to be a maid of honor. yeah...i want this woman ;)

Cheers Subfree!!!!

Fun Times 3 years ago

better yet subfree...you were not one of the 2 ladies smarter than the world. i'm happy to apology once again!!!!!!

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

I don't want you to take anything I said the wrong way either... I don't care if y'all shoot the breeze... it's cool, really, do it... just don't talk shit about my Cowboys plz... lol... or my Longhorns... Anyway, I was only offended for a split second - knee jerk reaction - I appreciate that you say what you mean and mean what you say, and I wouldn't want anything less, and no need to apologize for anything you have said... I shouldn't have even said despite all the drama... it's not what I really meant... by all means, stand up for what you believe in totally... By the way... since I posted earlier, I am feeling a little worse... damn will this ever end... once again, thank you for your words... I'm going to put it behind me... I just don't want to be a hypocrite (sp), ya know? I don't want anyone to read what I posted & go take something... I was worried about that... I'm over it, it's done... I can't go back... another bad thing about having an addict husband and wife: you use together... you follow each other... sucks... plus it costs twice as much..LOL... I'm done though... keep on keepin on....

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

Oh, and Fun Times: you have saved my life... Thank you... I'm pushing for your happiness... you need a good woman & deserve one...

PlainInsane 3 years ago

Want to make it quick cause i'm still at work.

Subfree

Your honesty will set you free. Your O.K. Your truly a beautiful inspiring women. Hang in there and don't get discouraged. You're going to be fine. I'll be praying for you and your hubby.

Fun Times

Your right I need to take it a day at a time and not worry about tonights sleep or whats going to happen tomorrow. God will take care of me. I know that for a fact. Yeah give me your email or a phone number- would love to talk to you in person sometime. Also your right again, My wife went thru pain I can't even imagine. How would it feel waking up every morning and not knowing if this could be your last day, I mean nobody knows whent hey're going to go but when you have cancer theres always going to be that thought of not making it. Having a o.k. day. Will post when I get home. Don't take this wrong but I love you people, without you people I'd have never made it this far. Tomorrows 4 weeks!!!!

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

And you never know... if y'all did get married in Florida.. I'd come.. I LOVE Florida... sorry, I don't like cold weather... Chicago versus Florida... come on, man... I'd be a beach bum if I didn't get sunburnt so easily...

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

Thanks Plain insane... I know what it's like to have someone in your life go through something like that... like I mentioned before, my daughter almost died, and we were struggling with her for the first two years of her life... actually, 3... she couldn't hold her head up for a long time, sat up late, crawled late, walked late... because of the bleeding in and around her brain... not knowing if she would have permanent brain damage...she had seizures all the time... she was in speech therapy when she was 3... but her brain eventually healed itself, and now she is excelling at everything she does... school, everything... that's great your wife has been in remission - she got through it, and I know it made her stronger... we love you too man... think you're through the worst, worst? keep us updated

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

And Fun Times is right... I keep having to remind myself, take it ONE day at a time... don't worry about tomorrow... or tonight...

queenie 3 years ago

hey, where is Merchant?

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

Merrrrrrrrrrcchhhhhaaaaaaaant????????

Fun Times 3 years ago

merchant...r u alive?

PlainInsane 3 years ago

Subfree

Can't imagine the suffering you went thru the first few years with your child. It must have been horrible. Mental pain can sometimes be worse than the physical. I'm so happy she's doing great now. I have 3 daughters 18, 15 & 13. If something happened to one of them it would kill me. They all know what i'm going thru now. I'm very honest with them and they are so supportive of me. They continually ask " how are you doing today" They Love their daddy and except me for who I am. I always talk with them about not making the mistakes i've made. Hopefully they will listen. Several years ago when i finally made the choice to get off the oxy's and soma I awoke one morning and my wife said I want to show you something. She turned on a video and guess who was the star. She videoed me as I passed out face down in my dinner plate. Then she woke me up and continued to video until i finally had to be carried to my bed. Imagine the shame and guilt I felt knowing my young children saw this and really didn't even understand why it was happening. How could I be so selfish and selfcentered. My wife should have thrown me out on my ass. She didn't, she stuck with me and helped me thru it. The subs made me normal again. My life got back to normal again. our rellationship improved. I got closer with God. But as time passes i realized I was still an addict just trading one drug for another. It ate at me and I kept sayng I got to get off this shit. I've finally did it and I've went thru the longest and most painful w/d of my life. Is it over, I don't believe i'm even close yet but everyday being able to post on here and talk with you and Fun Times and the others makes me stronger and stronger. Today has been one of my best days but I know that it'll be short lived. At least I've got some more strength to fight the next wave. I have alot of people pulling for me. Thankyou all for just being here to talk to.

FunTimes

My man how are you today??

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

Oh, WOW, that reminds me of when I would use Fentanyl patches... I fell asleep standing up at the store... I was just running in to get something and 30 minutes later my husband came in to check on me because I never came back to the car... the people were asking my husband should they call the hospital or the police... dang man, I can't imagine all the things my kids have seen... ouch... that hurts... three girls, huh... looks like they'd be the ones that are a handful huh.. not you.. I know I was a wild teen - whoa - I'm glad you have good kids... and they're supportive... I totally agree with letting them know what's going on... my oldest is only 8, but they know we are not well... they know we quit taking our medicine... and they've been wonderful about it... they also ask how we're doing... and tell me they can't wait for me to be well... gosh, I miss them... I spent some quality time with them this weekend, but I'm just ready to be able to do everything with them again. Take care of them like I'm suppose to. Yeah, that shows some real strenght, your wife staying with you through that... Thanks for sharing

Fun Times 3 years ago

okay...i'm sentimental. its nice to have a small group of people again who are actually going through this and helping each other. for awhile..it was just plaininsane and his alter ego. now the girls are back. STAY HERE LADIES!!! cmon Queenie...step up. You were given/earned the gift of recovery...share it with us newcomers. oooohhhkayyy!!!

plaininsane, my email is garysloane@att.net. write or chat anytime. i posted my number awhile ago (cause i really care who knows it)...but i'll give u that in an email. i'd really enjoy getting to know you and shooting the breeze, and i think we can help each other. it'll be a fun time.

subfree-you do say the kindest things. you have been so strong, and God only knows how far you've come. just push a little harder, u r so close. do not give up now woman!

remember please: you've been up, you've been down...you've come to far to start fucking around. you've dealt with feeling shitty before. after like 2 months i was feeling kinda bad...so i mentally 'reset' the clock. i told myself...okay...this is day 1. but it was really like day 51. nowhere near as bad as the real day 1 (or 2,3,4,5,etc.).

subfree-i implore u. there is only one choice u can make now. its too late to start over again. just surrender, accept that drugs are not a part of your life, keep moving forward, and the days will past faster than u can imagine. your too nice to let your life get ruined by drugs. you really are.

take care my friends.

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

Fun Times: you always say what everyone needs to hear... I guess I connect with you because you are ahead of me like Queenie, but you've went through PAWS which is what I think I may be going through... you're so right, with everything you say... and Queenie how are you doing?? My hubbie's legs starting hurting tonight & that hasn't happened in over a week for him... so we are paying the price... you know I just had to bitch for a second... makes me feel better... I'm ok now... trying not to worry about sleep tonight... Plain Insane - hope you sleep well tonight...

PlainInsane 3 years ago

Subfree

I've been blessed with some great girls. No trouble to speak of yet. They all get along with each other pretty good too. Thats a great goal for you. Soon you will be with them always and life will be great. Don't lose sight of that. Imagine all the fun times your going to have with them. I'm sure they can't wait also. You probably can't fathom the love they have for you and when mommy is hurting so are they. They just want to see you happy again.You've got so much to be strong for. Don't give in. I continually check this for posts and if your feeling bad let me know and i'll get back to you as quick as possible. I want to help anyone I can. I'll be praying for your strength. Have you tried anything for your arms? hot shower, Icy hot?? Maybe you need to armwrestle with your husband-lol. strain those muscles so they relax. I know this may seem sick but try to enjoy the pain because when you kick this your going to be one of the badest ass women around. God refines us so when we come out of this were purified. Be tough and let me now how your doing.

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

WOW... I'm having a brain overload... so many sweet guys... I know you're busy Plain Insane so you saying you'd be there to write back WOW that's so nice.. and I know you're in more pain than me... and going through more than me... and I check too so let it out if you need to also... I'll write back as soon as I can as well... I really appreciate that gesture.... I have had those dreams people were talking about earlier... but the past couple of nights I've been dreaming about having something, but not being able to take it for one reason or another... but I'm not craving anything.. I won't do it, I can't do it.. I know I couldn't let my kids down like that... or myself or husband... no, no, no... NO! Sweet dreams.... I hope I don't dream though... lol

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

Also Plain Insane: Thank you for your words about my children & everything... you're so right.... also, you are VERY blessed to have wonderful children & they get along... wow.. I hope mine grow up to be like that... the two boys are practically twins as far as age goes, and they go up against my daughter, but she holds her own... she's a bossy little Princess..lol...

PlainInsane 3 years ago

Subfree

Don't worry mom, the amazing love you show them will be instilled in them and they will follow suit. There's nothing that will break that. They may have their times but they will always be there for each other. Love is the key to everything. Never stop telling them how much you love them and how important they are to you and each other. Do this each and every day time and time again. Talk with them often and openly and they will always trust you. Those boys will protect their little sister when they get older and a make sure she's safe. I cannot stress enough how much showing them love will play apart in their personalities as they grow. Love makes everyone feel good and worthy and you can never get enough. Hope you sleep as well tonight.

FunTimes

i sent you a email.

lilibugg24 3 years ago

I understand that you guys are trying to get off Subutex or trying to quit other drugs?

lilibugg24 3 years ago

f/24/Ky

I guess this isn't a chat room. Any how it was kule reading you guys posts. I have been thru some of it. I am on Subutex and my doctor is gonna taper me down. Ive just been reading about what it will be like. I hope it goes well. I see most of u all are ok so I should be ok. Thankx

PlainInsane 3 years ago

lilibugg24

Yes, people here are gettng off sub. If you have any questions any or concerns ask away. People are here to help give you strength and let you know what you can expect. Sometimes it takes time for answers because everyones from different places. If you have concerns check back people are always happy to help. Good luck

queenie 3 years ago

Lilibugg, welcome and good luck to you. Subfree, i am well thank you for asking.My advice to you is to hit your knees and ask the Lord to give you strength. We can not do this alone. Just move forward and focus on the progress you have made.Its 5:30 am east coast and i will be leaving for work in 30 minutes. This my friends is my favorite part of the day. I enjoy the peace of the early morning and feeling God's grace around me. Oh yeah, and my pit stop to the cuban cofee shop is awesome! Raw caffine...something like coke (when the cubans make it) but its acceptable. Have a great day Ya'll and stay strong.

Fun Times 3 years ago

who in the world is happy at 530am? maybe if im still up from the nite before...but waking at and going to work at 530? i'm just saying... guess i a definately NOT a morning person. good for u queenie, someone has to be alive that early (i guess).

Fun Times 3 years ago

okay...i'm at work. i am working. i am half asleep. been here about 3 hours and still have my coat on. 'cause thats how roll. lol. i got this nice black trench...lite for spring...that i often dont take off until noon. cant spare the energy. lol. my theory: when i take it off at noon, then i can pretend i just walked in work and the day will go quicker. ridiculous...sure. is it working...kinda yeah. do folks at work always ask why i have my coat on....not anymore ;)

Plain Insane 3 years ago

Sick as hell today, It's taking everything I've got to be here at work. I'm also wearing my coat cause i'm freezing and its actually warm here. Sleep was not good. Wife says I was kicking her continually. Did not take any sleeping pill last night. Thought I was turning the corner but now I know that was just a mind-f. I have to continue to lean on God. Today is 4 weeks and it feels like day 6.

Fun Times 3 years ago

plaininsane

just keep promising yourself you'll stay just one or two more hours at most. the day will end...and u'll be home crasing tired as hell soon enough.

foreverannie 3 years ago

Plain Insane, Humm, 4 weeks. Well isnt that funny. You were telling us eight days ago that you were 48 hours. Can't keep your story straight can you Fun Times?

I wonder how many real people are on this sight. I know Sub Free is, but thats it. No offense to anyone who may be real and benefit from this (I did in the beginning untill I started realizing something isn't right with this guy), but Plain Insane has went really far to make a joke out of this sight and play with others emotions. It is so obvious. Fun Times, you claim to be a smart guy. Reread your posts and Plain Insanes post and see how obvious that you are the same person. Come to think of it, alot of the different names on here have the same writing technique.

I really don't care that you what you do with your spare time, but I just wonder why you are doing this. Are you preying on women? Are you trying to steal identities? You definately fit the profile of a crazy person. For example, I just told you that I was offended that you said "I must be taking Klonopin (you and PInsane spell it Clonopin) and Tramadol) and you felt the need to literally attack me with hateful words and attack my job, which I'm really proud of by the way. In addition, you immediately claimed to be a lawyer wanting to sue my doctor when I made a complaint. My father is a real attorney so I know how attorneys act. They just don't meet people on websites and offer to defend them. If you ever want to through your real name out then let me know. My dad can easily look you up :)

P.S Hope everyone else is doing ok

PlainInsane 3 years ago

Annie,

Maybe you should reread my posts again. You will realize that i jumped off the subs 4 weeks ago. During the first 3 weeks there were times when I had to take a .25 or .5 mg piece just to keep my sanity. Since 4/25 I haven't touched any sub and I'm suffering unbelieveably. I hope your happy about that. You are terribly mistaken women. Why would I prey on women when I have a beautiful wife and 3 kids at home. BTW my wife even reads some of my posts. I've never berated you in any of my posts I only offered my sympathy for what your going thru. Thank you for your kind words. I forgive you though and will continue to pray for your recovery.

Fun Times

This blows me away!!! How could someone really think this??

Fun Times 3 years ago

annie...i told u go pro se...nut. listen annie...i dont know what kind of pill cocktail you are on...but you might wanna quit it. you are like schizophrenic. u have truly lost your mind. PS. i spelled Klonopin with a K too, just fyi. psycho.

plaininsane...don't indulger her, im justsaying...do what u want...but as your alter ego i should have some say. lol! plainsane, i assure you, annie IS NOT represenatative of this site at all. well...u know u r not me. that makes 2 of us. lol! I can't believe it either! u cant make this shit up. thanks for that annie. what the hell does a guy say to some shit like that. not much else.

PS. Annie-u said u wouldn't reply/post again. as entertaining as you are...could u please keep your promise. i tried to help u. u helped plaininsane. now u lost ur mind (pills are BAD annie...i warned you!!!). btw...plaininsane and i might both be very smart. so what?

Seroquilt Klonaman 3 years ago

Wow. Lot's of posting since my last, and only post. Here I am again. now on day 7 and I give my withdrawl symptoms about a 1.5 on the BBDS 1-10 ( basketball diarys scale ) I actually sleep pretty good last night and woke up without the chronic back pain. Seems like most people oh here are saying the same thing...... 1st week is a breeze then the nest 2 are hell. I dunno.....

All the postings about kids..... I feel you. I'm raising my daughter, Karly all by myself, with a little help from my parents. She'll be 4 on may 9th and by my witdrawal clock that will put me at day 12 with no subs. I'm taking her to the National Aquarium even if I have to rent a wheelchair or hoveraround!!

I havent touched dope in almost 4 years....... I just can't imagine throwing it all away for ....... just one time.

Good luck people, were all doing it!

foreverannie 3 years ago

How convenient,

Both of you guys come on at the same time. Oh and then theres a Seroquil Klona.... shooting the same manic bullshit lines you do. You are such a pathetic joke.

And you would like to think your smart, on this site anyway, most social outcasts have to prove themselves somewhere. Your a freak.

BTW,

I'm not going to post once in awhile to remind everyone of your sick jokes.

PlainInsane 3 years ago

Seroquilt Klonaman

Great to hear your getting by without to many problems. Just be prepared for the worst and if it doesn't happen then praise the lord. Must be tough raising your daughter on your own. Make sure you do take her out for her b-day, those are times she'll always remember. I would prefer the hoveround since it's electric...lol. Hang in there and be tough!!!

Fun Times 3 years ago

seroquilt klonaman...judge this woman for who and what she is. other than her...we believe in each othere round here. gotta fly. will post later.

and seroquilt clonoman...i'm proud of you. stay hard man.

Fun Times 3 years ago

seroquilt clonaman...dude...i have well over 100 days with no subs and the first week was really really tuff man. and i aint soft. i dont know what u been reading...but if u read awhile back at one of my posts...i described how i had a buddy who was kicking weight of raw dope that he was 'holding' for someone...and he too subs for like a week or two and moonwalked past this kick. it just didn't hit him ANYTHING like it hit me. BOTTOM LINE: I dont know how the fuck u r doing it...but if u r handling day 7 well, fuck...YOU HAVE IT MADE IN THE SHADE BRO. it aint getting worse than day 7...maybe as bad...but no worse. you are a hard motherfucker. Much congratulations to you. you fucking deserve it. my kick sucked.

plaininsane...i am glad we are in touch. Thanks bro...i have isolated myself a lot and had to cut off the couple drug fiend 'friends' i had. wasn't hard. there were only a few left. but i need healthy recovering and spiritual people in my life now. I'll be glad if you're one of them. Thanks again for the talk..and consider what i said. it worked for me.

and good luck to you all.

KrisOfDeath 3 years ago

Just going to bed gonna do my last Oxy 40 first thing 2morrow and nothing till thurs morning when I go on subz. Any sugestions??

Plain Insane 3 years ago

Fun Times

Great talking with you tonight. I'm here for you anytime. You got my # and email. Your a great inspiration to me and I'm definately hearing what you said to me. Thanks for taking the time to talk even though you were with a friend. Tell them thanks for being patient with you while we talked. I thank God for you man!! Let's keep in touch.

KrisOfdeath

If you need the subs to get off the oxy's take them only for a short period. I'd say no more than a week or two. Believe me you don't want to go thru the long w/ds of the subs- it ain't no fun. The only reason i'd ever recommend staying on them longer is if you don't think you can stay away from the oxy's. You need to really be ready to give all the shit up or it isn't going to work. You gotta do it because your 1000% ready. How long have you been on oxy's and how much are you taking everyday?? Good luck.

Fu Times 3 years ago

you wanna trade real names annie...no sweat...i missed that one. you go first. my boss knows my history. did you look up pro se yet? it means you represent yourself...in case you dont have a Black's Law Dictionary handy.

yeah...and i luv to prey on women from a suboxone recovery site. it's better than match.com.

so what is your real name. you said its not annie. give it up...you asked me too, that is only fair right? you wouldnt ask me to do something you wouldn't, would you? put up or shut up. fyi-i'm not practicing.tell your dad he has a junky daughter when you ask him about me. tell your school board too. my boss is my friend and knows my history.

reread that letter genius "by law i couldn't charge anyone anything if i wanted. ...i'm not practicing now:, notice how i spelled Klonopin with a K as in you are Krazy.

you have no idea how sick you are. and you know subfree is real b/c why? your incredible talent for getting everything fucked up so far.

sorry everyone. this lunatic, who wants other people to identify themselves but hides herself has accused at least 3 (likely more) of us as being one person. its obvious that she failed, is back on subs, and/or oxy, and KLONOPIN and whatever else makes you crazy, and is ashamed and JEALOUS that we support each other. be jealous. be ashamed. be more ashamed of how u r trying to hurt people's recovery b/c you obviously failed.

queenie...don't be mad. please. i'm wound up (u had to crash early and i didn't hear your sweet voice). i'm not (that) crazy. i talked to plaininsane tonight. he's such a cool guy. he really is...and i'm very glad to get to know him, and I think we can help each other. sure, he's not as pretty as you, but he's very cool. HONESTLY, it really bothers me when people (one person in this case) are trying to hurt other people's chance of getting off drugs and living a new and happy life. its sad and sick. identity theft. how about sobriety theft. which is worse annie? that's all...i've said my piece. ooooohhhhkay!

God bless everyone, and forgive my anger at this demon.

queenie 3 years ago

hugs not drugs

foreverannie 3 years ago

I'm crazy. Geez..did you used to throw these types of fits when you were little. If you don't think you have issues, then again reread your posts. I will not reply with angry tirades. That's your thing and any real person reading this site will be freaked out by it. Again, sadly I don't think they exist.

But we'll play your games. Keep it going........BTW I think it's also pathetic that you would make up something about about someones wife having Cancer. I, like many others have lost loved ones with Cancer and its no joke. You were caught in a lie, your embarrassed, and you will do anything to cover that, go to any extreme, try to use words as your battlefield because you can't face the real worl. It's quite humorous.

But I will stand by my conclusions about you, Plain Insane, and Seroquil, and now Kris being the same person (plus many others)

And I will keep reminding others from time to time. Sorry I took your fun away, but I think you are terribly disturbed and dangerous. Sorry, but I do.

BTW I think being addicted to Subutex is not considered a junkie. But wait, your smarter than doctors (I forgot). You, on the otherhand used to use needles to shoot up drugs in your system and from the way you act I think you still do :)

Seroquilt Klonaman 3 years ago

Why do I feel Tension from foreverannie? I'm here to cope with the withdrawal off subs not get reamed out for being pathetic or a joke. WTF? Maybe that's your way of welcoming the newcomers. Lucky for me I'm on day 8 now and still I give my withdrawal about a 2 out of 10.

I don't know why I'm not feeling as shitty as everyone else? Everywhere I've read and everyone I've talked to said by day 7 I should be at my worst for about a week after. Maybe I'm just comparing it to my countless times detoxing off of SEVERE heroin addiction. Nothing can compare to that. That gets a 12 out 1-10.

On a positive note. I actually had the energy to take my daughter to daycare today! Thank god she's only 3, 4 on the 9th so she has no clue about withdrawals and the such.

@fun times.

You said you felt your worst the 1st 7 days? 100 days no subs? WOW! Dude you're awesome! I'll be there in 92 day! lol

I don't remember who said "why am I taking so many different meds it the Withdrawals aren't that bad"

My Psych thought Klonopin would help with the anxiety and seroquel will at least knock me out. Maybe that's why the withdrawals aren't that bad for me. I'm sleeping though the worst and actually getting real rest my body needs to fight off the withdrawals!

Their has to be a concrete reason why most of you on here are going through some serious hell coming of the subs and why I'm not. Maybe it's all the medication I'm prescribed? Dunno.

meds prescribed while on suboxone ( about 2 years ago)

Zoloft 50mg

Lisinopril 20mg

Prevacid 30mg

Adderall 20mg x2 daily

meds prescribed to cope with sub withdrawals

Klonopin .5mg x2 twice daily (4)

Seroquel 100mg 1 right at bedtime.

now I take everything as prescribed except for the Klonopin. I'm not taking 4 .5mg pills in 1 day! That's the last thing I need, an addiction to benzodiazipams. I take 2 Klonopins with 1 seroquel right at bed time and I actually sleep pretty good. I get about 9 hours... wake up about 5 times throughout but hey.... I'm sleeping.

Maybe the combination between all my meds has somehow nullified my withdrawals..... Personally I would've though the Adderall alone would've magnified withdrawal symptoms, however, it's seems that it helps me focus on everything except withdrawal. Weird?

I'll sum this up by saying, Most on here have really given positive support which lets me know that I'm in fact not alone. And as for the negative support...... Maybe you're having a bad day or going through some sort of personal issues and I was an easy target to unload your frustrations on..... whatever the situation is I hope the worst is past.....

ohhhhh.

whats funny, well to me at least, I quit smoking cigarettes about 2 years ago...... about 1 month after I quit my blood pressure went way up... 165/110 That's when I was prescribed Lisinopril. Now I'm averaging about 135/85. Again... about 1 month quitting smoking cigarettes I started experiencing SEVERE chest pains. I was in and out of the ER. Had EKG and ECG everything came back normal, my primary doctor said I was having anxiety attacks. prescribed Zoloft and Ativan. Kicking the Ativan was anything but easy. (that's for another forum) after about 4 months of dealing with extreme chest pains I started noticing they intensified whenever I bent over. went back to the doc, It's not panic attacks, its Acid Reflux Disease. Prevacid fixed that problem......

Rambling..... TMI lol

Fun Times 3 years ago

sociopath-ask plaininsane how "humurous" it is to have a wife with cancer. you are fucking sick.

Fun Times 3 years ago

"then i started dating a neighbor to get percs". how cute. junkie.

everyone else...as for my part i will not address this cancer again. ever. you guys do what you want, of course. iwill focus on recovery.

seroquilt clonaman...this cancer is not part of our group that helps each other. i'm just telling you so no know. if everyone ignores it, the cancer will not get the attention it craves, and will go away. the cancer thrives on attention. without it..it will die, and everyone can just be excellent to each other.

i would have really really loved to be a newcomer and face some "i dont exist shit". im glad u guys are still here...i probably would have said fuck this and left. please stick around.

i know people's motives fairly well. attention. starve the cancer.

plaininsane...how is work today bro?

queenie...keep coming back...it works if you work it lady.

subfree...i almost cannot imagine what is spining through your head. i have faith you will be well. people do care for u here.

everyone else...stay humble, stay hard.

foreverannie 3 years ago

You know peoples motives well because not only are you a Lawyer (or the mailman in the lawyers office with Big Dreams), Hockey player, perverted old man, the smartest man in the world (who raps with others peoples lyrics) you are also a doctor. Thats what you should make Seroquil, a doctor! That would make the site more interesting and I fully promote being all that you can be. We are all laughing at your attempts to cover your lies. A big group of us right now are laughing at you!!!!

PlainInsane 3 years ago

Fun Times

I'm hanging in their today. It's only 9:00 a.m. here so the days just getting going. Got 5 hrs sleep last night. Felt a little better this a.m.

Seroquilt Klonaman

Great to hear your not having to tough of a time. Hang the man.

Talk with all later. Everyone have a great day and be strong!!!

lilibugg24 3 years ago

I'm back f/24/ky. Does anyone know if Subutex is better than the orange ones to with draw from? My doctor wants to switch me to the other and then taper me down this week

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

Hey Plain Insane: I'm so sorry you had a rough day yesterday... I still can't believe you're working through this shit... I'm trying to get my business back going so we were on the road all day yesterday, and it just about killed me... it does help to get your mind off stuff - working - but ugh... through the worst of it... you're hanging in there & making it huh... Today is hubbie's 30th bday - WOW time to trade him in I told him.. he he.... Yeah, Fun Times my mind is racing, and I have lots to say - I'LL BE BACK....

foreverannie 3 years ago

Fun Times,

OK listen- I'm willing to cut the crap if you just stop with the different people. You and I both know whats going on and for whatever reason you want to keep it up. I know you'll never admit it, but if the others just "magically" go away then all will be good. I won't say anything mean. I promise!

PlainInsane 3 years ago

subfree

Good luck on getting your business going again. I'm sure if it was successful before you can make it again. Tell your hubby Happy B-day. Work is very tough but i'm making it. I did have a slightly better day today. You just gotta keep pushing yourself. You'll know when you really need to take it easy and relax. My weekends i do absolutely nothing but relax. Try to get ready for the long week. Hang in there and take it a day at a time. God Bless! Talk soon.

lilibugg24

I really am not sure I just know subutex does not have naloxone. I would think one is just as rough as the other. I think the naloxone is to keep you from getting high on other opiates. Someone please correct me if i'm wrong. At any case get off of them as soon as possible and taper your dosage down before completely quitting. Be strong!!!

Fu Times 3 years ago

Plaininsane,

It's nice to see that you are not only getting well...but that you are helping others. That's a nice thing about this site, whether you ae new, kinda new, or been on it awhile like i have been. you can help someone...which feels great, or you can get help, which is great. it really is a win/win.

lillibug24: WELCOME!!! I LOVE TO SEE THAT NEW PEOPLE SIGN IN, CHECK IT OUT, AND STICK AROUND! so stick around. we're in this for ourselves and each other. we can all relate to you. we want to help.

i have heard that unless you are worried about using other opiates again...subutex is much better than suboxone. I am not a doctor, but i have learned the hard way that doctors while having the best intentions are only human. the reason i heard subutex is better than suboxone is because of the naltrexone that plaininsane brought up. i have heard this, from a doctor: naltrexone does block opiates: EVEN YOUR BODY'S OWN NATURALLY MADE OPIATES. it makes the kick harder (from what i have picked up) because now your body is really "relearning" how to create the proper amount of opiates. i'll speak for myself..i wish i detoxed off subutex...because i think after many days after quitting suboxone my body/brain is having a harder time relearning what it is supposed to do. THAT SAID: IF YOU MIGHT USE OXYS OR HEROIN OR MORPHINE AGAIN...SUBOXONE WILL HELP YOU STOP THINKING ABOUT THAT STUFF, BECAUSE IT DOES HAVE THAT BLOCKING EFFECT. only u truly know. if u aren't thinking of getting high, i would certainly use subutex. i wish i kicked off that.

seroquil clonaman...after being in Recovery for awhile i realize that i can't make anyone get clean, stay clean, go to NA meetings, or do anything. THIS STRUGGLE THAT WE ARE ALL GOING THROUGH IS NO LESS THAN A LIFE AND DEATH MATTER TO ME. so..sure...i can't convince you to stay around...God i cannot believe how horrificly you were treated....especially after just getting here. i honestly would have said 'fuck this...i dont need this shit right now, im fighting to get clean and i gotta hear im a pathetic joke? FUCK THIS SITE!" if i were you too.

but I need you to know that i care about you man, even though i'll never see you. if u stick around...we can ALL (except maybe one peron and who knows, another may appear...but you can't give them the power to make you leave a place that might help you very much...you gotta stand up for yourself and not let anyone fuck with your recovery...its easy...ignore that shit...i certainly am) be cool and help each other...and we all need the help. Plaininsane and Seroquil Clonanman, the way you were treated more than disgusts me, it gets me angry. Plaininsane you have my cell already. Clonaman, my email is garysloane@att.net. I hope you email me, I'll give u my cell #, and I'd luv to talk to u sometime. dude...i never heard of anyone kicking as cool as you are (the very sad fact is that my friend who i bragged about, and his easy kick...already relapsed). please..whatever u decide, be verrry proud of yourself. im proud of you. please email me anytime. you're doin so fucking good bro...this is your life...keep it up man.

by the way...everyone not sleeping well...seroquel really puts you to sleep if u need it. Plainsane,,,i forgot to tell you that, but i wanted to. it also takes an edge off the kick. please...talk to a real doctor before taking any, but it does work.

subfree...how are u? gonna say Hi?

finally Queenie. you know how i feel about you. you're my girl.

take great care everyone. God bless you all!!!!

foreverannie 3 years ago

Fu Times,

Did you forget your "n". That gets kinda tricky when your signing in and out as different people.

Seroquil Klonoman,

I love your name. How convenient you pop up after Mr. Fu Times advises Plain Insane to take Klonopin and Seroquel. Kinda takes that originality out of your name huh.

Hey everyone,

I think that someone, I'm not gonna say who because it can be any of various MOs is crazy with multiple personality disorder. So ifd there is someone out there whos screen name is Crazy MOFO, sign in please.

Plain Insain,

Poor baby, didn't mean to hurt a grown mans feelings but your sad stories were getting to me. Fu Times, if your so willing to give any stranger your phone number, why don't you include your address so that I can report you to "Catch a Predator"

PlainInsane 3 years ago

Seroquilt Klonaman

I hope you listen to Fun times, please keep posting and lets help each other. Don't let one person make you feel shitty. Your doing great and I admire you for raising your daughter on your own all while going thru this kick. We definately care about you and your struggles and it always helps to have people you can relate with. Hang in there and let us kow how you're doing.

Fun Times

Did have a pretty good day. Went to bed about 1:00 a.m. last night and slept pretty good till around 5:30 a.m. Still dragging at work but was better today. Work is starting to pile up though and with that comes more stress-just have to deal with it. Like you said just take it an hour or two at a time and before you know it it's time to leave. Hope things are going good for you. Talk soon.

lilibugg24

Hope you keep checking in. We're really here to help give support in anyway we can. Stay strong!!

Fun Times 3 years ago

it has come to my attention that an individual known as "foreverannie" has created her own hub...she is an author of a hub with zero fans, and zero hits. she has an ad there...very cheap tactic....its not a recovey ad...its designed to create third party income.

in any event as an "AUTHOR" of a HUB, which i also noticed she is alone in this regard...she has violated several terms of service, as her hub that nobody has commented on can be linked to this hub via her conduct and posts. see annie's comments if anyone cae, and they will relate back to this hub. Said terms of service she agreed to as an author of hub pages include (but are not limited to) not acting in a defamatory, libelous, tortuous, vulgar, obscense, or invasive manner. she also agreed as an author capable (and in fact doing so) of soliciting third party advertisements that she would not threaten, harass, or intimidate others. she has. i dont care to debate her. i'll take this up with hubpages. my argument(s) are very 'comfortable' to me. these activities are also strictly prohibited by any author of a hub, and she has through her service agreement violated them all, and has also INDEMNIFIED HUB PAGES against any and all lawsuits and reasonable attorney fees incurred through any violation of her service agreement. let her look up indemnify.

said individual has also violated the terms of service (which only aplply to authors who have created their own HUB, which affords them the benefit of soliciting third party funds. as stated...there is already an ad unrelated to recovery on the hub which has no fans of foreveranie) by asking me my name and address, she has attempted to collect pesonal information about myself, in direct violation of the terms of sevice for hub authors.

for my part, i really have minimal concern regarding said individual. in the interest of full disclosure, i am concerned that she might really be a teacher, and i do not feel that someone who dates their neighbor to acquire drugs illicitly should be in a position of authority and trust over minors. I know for a fact that schools are extremely wary of this type of individual, and will do what they can to prevent individuals with criminal behavior from causing the school or its students problems of any sort. It leads to litigation ofen against the school board, district, area, etc. when an individivual of this type causes harm to minors...especially if the school has been put on notice about aforementioned illicit drug use, and means by which said drugs were obtained. it is quite unseemly. I will do my best to make sure that the appropriate liscensing board is aware of this corrupting influence within its body.

I will let Hubpages know how harmful one of their authors has been. And i will take a special pleasure if and when the fact comes out (although since she is the only author i cannot see how it would) that i am and have only ever posted from one town under one name, which is Fun Times. As I will (as I stated...it can't really happen...but we'll see) when the fact comes out that plaininsane has only ever used one name, and has posted some 2500 miles away from my town, almost simultaneosly. Unfortunatel y(Fortunately), as diligent and thouhtful users, not Authors...these are not concerns anyone but annie wil have to deal with.

Everyone else...just stay clean.

Fun Times 3 years ago

plaininsane...of course our identities are strictly confidential. we have not authored any hub pages, and if you did, you were never abusive, i did not. its enough that we know who we are, and others are cool. i would advise against authoring a site on hubpages. it opens up too many windows of liability and personal information....in my humble opinion.

I'm not the type to sit around and watch other peoples chance of saving their lives get destroyed by a would be (as of ye tperfectly unsuccersful) profiteer, and/or a person with he worst intentions imaginable to people recovering from a life altering affliction, who are in sincere need of help.

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

Ok, damn, I was trying to stay out of this shit, but now I gotta speak up...Please read EVERYTHING before you react... WAY BACK WHEN Fun Times and Annie first got into it, BEFORE the accusations of everyone being everyone else... Annie didn't post for a little while (and I didn't think she would be back) so I contacted her through hub pages to see how she was doing because I cared and was interested in her quick recovery... and I had to give my email which is my real name & my email for my My Space so that's why she knows I'm real... I'm not going to front anyone out - I DON'T agree with her about Fun Times posting on here as different people, and I do think what she said about Plain Insane's wife's cancer was horrid... come on, man, no need to attack that regardless of what you believe... and I do think what Fun Times said about her job was wrong... I mean, kids with autism - no reason to bring any of that to the table guys... Fun Times is crazy and off the wall and that's what makes him cool... I don't want to offend anyone, I'm just speaking the truth... she looked me up to make sure I wasn't Fun Times trying to contact her when I emailed her.... and I wanted to say that she has her own, personal reason why she believes you're pyscho - I'm not going to put her business out there, she can tell you if she wants to (maybe it will help you understand), but it has nothing to do with Fun Times... SO... also can I say that I was a little offended because I emailed Annie, telling her about St. John's Wort and SAM E - just trying to suggest some things she might want to take (everyone else seems to be doing it natural), but I thought this happened with most people like Fun Times was saying - lack of motivation & overall mood - I did some research, found these things to be helpful for this, bought some, and I was just trying to be helpful, and she told me maybe I need to see a shrink... I'm not really depressed, just wanted a natural boost but was more trying to suggest it to her incase she was going through this like me and hubbie... I think she meant well, but I dont' need a shrink & I sure as hell don't want any antidepressants or anything like that... This shit is getting a little out of control though... we're talking about ruining people's careers?? I see where everyone's coming from, but man - Oh, and about the hub... when I first emailed her, I asked her if she knew of any other place on the internet to talk about subs and recovery and stuff because I couldn't really find anything, and she said she would start her own hub. So that might have been my doing. But I do think that she really, truly believes you are the same person, pretending to be different people or whatever, and I don't think anyone can change her mind, but I say that no one else here thinks that so Annie: just don't worry about it anymore... just let us all talk, and if I'm talking to the same person oh well... seriously though, it's ok... Fun Times and Plain Insane and everyone else are really helping people here... so lets get back to that.... y'all don't like each other, whatever, it's fine. I don't have anything against anyone.. I don't agree with some things said... and don't worry, Annie, I'm not putting any personal info out there - I think you're wrong about Fun Times, and I think I might not walk a straight enough line to really relate to you... but I would never put someone out there like that... And if anyone cares, the two main reasons why I don't just put my info out there is because we have custody of my husband's son, and I wouldn't want to jeopardize that in any way, giving his mother ammo, you know... and plus, I put A LOT of personal stuff on here... whoa... that I don't just want anyone and everyone knowing which they would if I put my email up here cuz it is my name... so it's more about anyone else looking in, not the people I've come to really treasure on here... I trust several of you so it's cool... just like Plain Insane has his own reasons for not putting his info up... which I totally respect... like he said in the beginning though, you wonder what the people you talk to daily look like, ya know? So anyway... there, I said it all... I hope everyone is doing good today... I drank last night for hubbie's birthday... BLAH.... should have got liquor instead of beer... but oh well, don't plan on drinking again, and it had been atleast a couple years, if not more since I had drank anyway... just trying to take the edge off, but didn't work for me so I don't recommend it until you're well. Plain Insane: I really did want to apologize for what Annie said about your wife... all these low blows... ouch... God Bless you and your wife, and I hope you are ok today... Queenie - stay crunk... Fun Times - keep helping everyone... Peace Out

foreverannie 3 years ago

Sub free, OK I'm going to address your comment real quick. I didn't tell you to see a shrink, I told you that maybe you need see your doctor for a physical- So if your going to quote me, please don't misquote me. Thanks

Fun Times,

I know your an old man and all, but when I dated me neighbor because he had meds, I was just a young girl- over 7 years ago you idiot- way before I became a teacher. So what if I dated him for meds. We dated for 2 years so I'm sure we had other things in common. I married my husband because he didn't take pills. I'm sure you bent over plenty of times for your cracked out habit. If thats all you can throw back, yeah!

One thing about me is that I am who I say I am- everything in me is honest. Sub Free, regardless of what you think, you know this. I am a teacher, a mother, a mentor, an activist, nd many other things. I don't just cruise the internet all day long like some people. Everyone in my life knows I am good at what I do and if anyone ever becomes concerned about me being in

foreverannie 3 years ago

Sub free, OK I'm going to address your comment real quick. I didn't tell you to see a shrink, I told you that maybe you need see your doctor for a physical- So if your going to quote me, please don't misquote me. Thanks

Fun Times,

I know your an old man and all, but when I dated me neighbor because he had meds, I was just a young girl- over 7 years ago you idiot- way before I became a teacher. So what if I dated him for meds. We dated for 2 years so I'm sure we had other things in common. I married my husband because he didn't take pills. I'm sure you bent over plenty of times for your cracked out habit. If thats all you can throw back, yeah!

One thing about me is that I am who I say I am- everything in me is honest. Sub Free, regardless of what you think, you know this. I am a teacher, a mother, a mentor, an activist, nd many other things. I don't just cruise the internet all day long like some people. Everyone in my life knows I am good at what I do and if anyone ever becomes concerned about me being in recovery

foreverannie 3 years ago

continued

principal, the school board, whoever you said then so be it) I will just say OK and move on. Fun Times, you claim to know the law, you should know this.

Now, let me tell everyone why I called Fun Times out. He started to concern me by some of him comments. So I started thinking about it, called my friend who is an ethnographer and co authored a piece with me. We retyped all of his comments, submitted it through software that we have. We used to collect data and put it through the same software that would code the data, find patterns, and develop themes for us. The results came back with 97 % accuracy that they were the same person and Seroquilt Klono,an.

I can send anyone those results or post them on here. It includes similiar phrasing, patterns, and punctation patterns.

Anyway, I just brought it up on this site hoping he would stop and he started threatning and acting crazy, which lead me to believe he had a dark side and wonder about his motivations.

Sub Free, I would have never attacked his wife if I wasn't sure. Again, I just recently lost someone I loved deeply to Cancer and for him to make stuff like that up, it makes me sick.

You can believe what you want Sub, your entitled to that, but I just want everyone out there to know about him so that he doesn't take advantage of anyone.

Big Deal about my Hub. I just posted it a couple of days ago. Are you crazy? Do you really think I care about what you do with my Hub?

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

See, I wanted to just leave it all alone. Point is: it made me feel like something is wrong with me... like I shouldn't be feeling like this, and I don't think that's the case... whatever, I don't care, I could get mad, cuss people out, and go off, but I got my own sobriety to worry about... didn't think I was mean, just truthful... wasn't trying to piss anyone off, actually trying to help... guess I always make things worse... just trying to end the feud - FUCK IT... oh, was trying not to cuss...lol... was I out of line in anything I said? I apologize... I'm on day 41 and still withdrawing from this hell so forgive me if I have the attitude of FUCK IT... I look to this site for help and encouragment so please can we keep that up... THANK YOU.....

Fun Times 3 years ago

I was at the point where I thought I so many wild things happened in my life that i would find nothing unbelievable. A meteor hits my car...expected it. Cubs win a world series, had to be this year. Aliens invade Los Angeles...of course...why not. Then there is this site.

Respectfully...I sympathise with autistic children. I pary for them if this lunatic is their teacher. She developed a program with her friend, that makes it official. 97%...2000%...its still fuckin wrong. Am I suprised. You guys tell me. Anyone bored enough to retype all of my comments (my God are you insane) is just fucked up...how else can I say it? Design a new one...it doesn't work. Never mind...you couldn't make change for a dollar yet alone create something viable. Ask plaininsane...b/c frankly...i am out of here. I'm sure he still loves you for your continuous assault on his wife who beat cancer. Fuck you. Annie...you get all the attention now...i hope it completes at least part of your fucked up brain.

I didn't know anything about bending over for crack...and I didn't need to. Keep your personal "love life" to yourself. Or tell everyone ...I don't care...cause I aint reading this shit anymore. And subfree...God Bless you, honestly. I swear I hope you get well. Just don't misquote annie again...it's so unfair to her. Hope she inspires you all.

Take care everyone...continue being cool to each other. That's all.

foreverannie 3 years ago

When a man gets caught cheating, he lashes out, makes threats and acts like an idiot.

When Fun Times gets caught in his lies he does the same thing. I'm just letting you incriminate yourself because any reasonable person reading this site can see where I'm coming from. Any habitual liar gets defense like that. Keep insulting, making threats, your just completing your own MO and making my point.

I may be snide and make rude crude comments but they are without anger and I haven't threatened you, just making my point. And you kept this up Fun Times (I see you switched your name back, don't blame you) but in the end, you and I are the only ones who know the real trutth.

foreverannie 3 years ago

and who in the heck said I taught Children with Autism (the correct way to say adress children with these needs)? I said I taught high school English- I am just an activist for Autism.

foreverannie 3 years ago

I didn't develop the program, CAQDAS, it's used by all Qualitative researchers or detectives. You should know this lawyer.

PlainInsane 3 years ago

Wow!! Fun Times, don't let annie run you outta here. Your job isn't finished yet. Don't let one person destroy everything you've done for everybody. As you know I've pretty much let her spew her evil and yes it does hurt to know that someone actually makes terrible comments about someone that is a cancer survivor. That's her problem though. I would love to lose it and tell her what I really think of her but what good would that do?? She doesn't know me from jack. Remember God says to forgive and thats one of the hardest things in life to do. I choose to do it. My heart is in the right place and all I care about is helping others and getting the help I need.

Subfree,

Thanks for the kind words and I know you know I'm who I say I am. Hope your feeling o.k. Hope hubby's b-day went good last night. Getting off this shit brings out emotions and I've shared alot with you guys/gals which I don't even share with my close friends. BTW this is the the first hub I've ever posted on, so you won't find me under any other name anywhere else. I hate to say it but annies little program is 100% faulty. Please continue to post everyone because it sure helps me fight this wicked kick. Gotta get back to work. Hopefully we'll talk tonight. God bless you strong souls!!!

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

Are you kidding me? Plain Insane is right Fun Times... PLEASE don't let her run you off of here... we're still suffering, and you help SO much... no one believes that shit... don't worry about it... did I say something wrong, seriously? I'm totally on your side, and the program or whatever... that's not the reason I was talking of - I didn't know about that... it was something more personal to Annie & I am just trying to be respectful, but I thought it would give insight into why she's paranoid about you... I'm not trying to take up for her - I didn't mean to offend you at all... I definitely don't want you to leave, you are part of what makes this hub... I've never posted on one before either... that's why I was saying can she just leave it alone because everyone here is on your side Fun Times... so just let us be, Please Annie... I'm not a confrontational person, and that's why I was trying to stay out of it... I was joking with some of my comments earlier so don't take them wrong Fun Times... you were the one being attacked, you attacked back... it's cool.. I was just trying to make peace... be nice to everyone... I dunno, but I plead with Annie, seriously, we're trying to get well, and I REALLY REALLY wouldn't have made it & wouldn't be making it if it wasn't for Fun Times and everyone else so please just leave him alone... regardless of what you think, he's HELPING people... you said it yourself Annie, you wouldn't have made it through the hard stuff if it wasn't for us so just let it be. I really can't be any more sincere, we want you to stay Fun Times, but we can't make you, and I don't blame you for wanting to leave, but just remember there are people on here that need your help... and more popping up daily... Anyway, I'm pissed, and I don't think it's right that you are getting pushed out of here... you make this site fun and enjoyable & give me hope for the future - I just hope you don't go anywhere... and I wanted to say I can't believe your friend relapsed... I'm sorry to hear that... his next withdrawal probably won't be as easy... Plain Insane: yeah, you do go through A LOT of emotions... I'm still going through them, and you're welcome to share anything, anytime... I know I have, lol... I admire everyone on here who's getting off subs... and yes, I hope everyone continues to post because it is helping me as well... and don't ever hold back... Talk soon...

lilibugg24 3 years ago

I agree with forveranni. Man these bitches are crazylol. I can totally c where ur coming from lol

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

Seriously though, you ask us for advice then insult us? You don't like it, don't come back, don't read it, whatever...

foreverannie 3 years ago

Really Subfree? Are you calling someone else a sub taking fool? Geez your just as judgemental as the rest of these guys. You want some real people on this site, now you got them because theres only 3, me you, and 1 person that Fun Times claims to be. In fact you told me that you can totally see why I was accusing them on being one person in the email you sent me. I think your just the type of person that says one thing to one person, then something different to someone else or whatever clever word you can think of to call it. Welcome Lilibug. I'm glad that someone else can see these big joke on here. But there's no use in arguing with this 3 on 1 person. He'll fight you till the death on that one :)

foreverannie 3 years ago

If it helps you to talk to someone that don't exist, then go for it.

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

If it's all a big joke then why are you still coming here???????? I don't have a fucking thing to hide, and I don't play people like that... I was trying to emphathize with what you told me about why you thought it... it's not even worth fucking arguing about it... I don't know why we can't just focus on helping people instead of this bullshit... it was fine til you showed up... you want me to fucking post the damn emails on here, I don't fucking care - I'm not two faced... excuse me for reaching out to you... excuse me for trying to see both sides... if you're so convinced everyone on here is fake then why do you keep coming back?? You and lillibug go talk on your hub then and leave us the hell alone.... if Fun Times doesn't come back, then I'm off here too because I'm sick of this shit... this is ridiculous... it's a shame too because he was really keeping me from relapsing - staying on track - him and Queenie are the only ones ahead of me with this shit & I really counted on their support... I had to take a side, I didn't have a choice... I didn't think you were a bad person, but damn you like to agg shit on, don't you... on and on and on.... I could give a fuck less what you think about me so fuck it, but I just want Fun Times to know that I am not two faced, and she's twisting my words... give it up because I'm not responding anymore, really...... what's the point in arguing back and forth.... you think you're so much better than us anyway so leave us scum alone.......

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

Oh and she called me a crazy bitch... what was the point in that?? So I said something as equally stupid back... THAT'S WHY I WROTE LMAO... judgemental???????? And what are y'all being? I was just bullshitting around....... from one bitch to another.......

lilibugg24 3 years ago

Hey forv err u sure this bitch isnt a dude 2 lol

lilibugg24 3 years ago

Hey forv err u sure this bitch isnt a dude 2 lol

Fun Times 3 years ago

Subfree and plainsane....really....i get wound up. But then I wind down. I SWEAR TO GOD...if you both weren't so cool....fuck would I be out of here. See...work today was a bit different. I was involved in personal litigation...which isn't as fun as being involved in someone else's litigation. I have to remember, i may have a moment of frustration....but I'm fucking unphaseable. I JUST KICKED SOME SHIT THAT WAS REAL. IT WAS FUCKING HARD...but so am I. I'll probably tell annie to go fuck herself everyday....as long as thats understood...plaininsane, subfree (you are sweet as hell...you really are....fuck am i pulling for you)...you both help me. a bunch of days off subs is nice...but i am an addict. and not an accidental i was in pain and have an excuse addict. i did drugs for fuckin fun until they almost killed me. thats my addiction. i'm clean now...my addiction is doing push ups in the parking lot waiting for me. i'm trying to tame a fucking beast. unfortunately...that beast is me. annie...you fucked with me...i dont give a shit. i consider plaininsane (sorry...but im not as calm or forgiving as you yet man, maybe one day) a friend. i consider subfree a friend (i'd tell u to shoot me an email but your married...i dont do that...plus i do like queenie). dont fuck with my friends annie. you dont motherfucking know me like that. i swear to God you dont. one more fucking time annie...i fucking dare you....fuck with someone i care about again...say one single word about this guys wife you motherfucker, and you'll see how smart i am. and how much i care for friends. and really how much after kicking this shit I JUST DONT GIVE A FUCK! ok.

ok. it's cool. subfree you have good advice...annie has her own blog. nobody wants you here man, just fucking annie. im almost exaspertaed when i say...lady...you arent fucking with a normal person. realize that. subfree...i never thought you are anything but a very very sweet girl doing something brave if not fucking superhuman. God i am proud of you and your husband. i'll be here as long as you need me. Plaininsane...you can be the voice of reason. So we have a pschyco trying to get better (thats me), a really sweet lady who is caring and kind (subfree) and the spiritual voice of reason (plaininsane).

i'll cool out. its been a ruff day. cool...i just exhaled for the first time in awhile. i'll help all i can. u guys help me. i'm with that.

Really...God bless both of you. I'm nowhere near 'normal'. maybe i never was. but i'm getting better. thanks.

foreverannie 3 years ago

OK Funtimes,

Your right. It's immature of me to keep this going. I shouldn't do that to others on the sight who are here to get help. You do give good advice at times and i do believe your battling demons. I don't mean to get you so upset that you have to lash out like that. I just can't explain it, but somethings you said really set me off and rubbed me the wrong way.

lilibug

Subfree is a girl I'm almost sure

lilibugg24 3 years ago

I wuldnt take that shizit off thos kats,girl I got ur bck

PlainInsane 3 years ago

Fun Times,

You say what you gotta say man, I respect you standing upfor me and everyone who is looking for help and comfort. You Da Man!!!! Thank you for being willing to put up with her and remain here to help and inspire people like me. GOD BLESS YOU MAN.

Subfree

You have not offended me at all. Your are a wonderful woman and also help and inspire me. I will continue to be there for you and anyone else who needs help to get thru this. I've got way to many more important things to deal with then to worry about what one person thinks about me or anyone else here.

lilybugg24

sorry you feel the way you do. Please annie and lily leave and let me continue to talk to myself (plainInsane, fun Tmes, Seroquilt Klonaman and whoever the else you think is the same person) eventually we'll get tired of talking to ourselves and may go away. Excuse me it's time for me to take my dosage of thorzine, the voices of my alter ego are talking to me to help me with my next post.

All my friends here be cool, stay strong and I'll (we'll) be talking to you soon. God Bless and take it a dayat a time.

Fun Times 3 years ago

annie...okay...lets be cool. that was big of you. i appreciate it. thank you.

queenie 3 years ago

wOW! anyone just entering this would think y'all are really knucking futs! Can't we all just continue to post how we are feeling and give sound advice and encouragement? This behavior is not conducive to recovery and may exacerbate feelings of anxiety and depression that often accompany W/d. -SUBFREE- as far as keep'n it crunk....i got dis here on lock.....ya heard?!!!

PlainInsane 3 years ago

I agree!

Fun Times 3 years ago

Quennie...you got clean with at least a tiny bit of help from this site. C;mon man...u said i inspired u. Can you give back a little baby. Not everyone is lucky like me and gets to talk to you,. You are a very strong lady, very smart, gifted at helping others...so I'm glad you noted the insanity the site was degenerating into...noew take a minute every day...and share your strength, intelligence, gift, knowledge gained through experience...and help people. Step 12. Give back what was given to you. I love to read your posts, and we talk at least 2 hours a nite. You're a very Special (capital S) lady. Share what you have.

Subfree...please let me know how you are doing. If you don't feel like Posting....THEN YOU BETTER POST...OKAY! If you are happy...share it, and inspire me and others. If you are going through terrible shit...you better share it, and hopefully someone here can cheer you up. You know I'll try.

Thanks for your EXTREMELY KIND WORDS SUBFREE. I SWEAR ON MY LIFE...WHEN SOMEONE SAYS IN A POST THAT I HELPED THEM...IT DOESN'T GET ANY BETTER THAN THAT. NOT ONLINE. YOUR KIND WORDS HAVE ENCOURAGED ME SO MUCH SUB-FREE. THEY REALLY HAVE.

Plaininsane...keep up the great work. Never forget..the prize in this crackerjack box is nothing less than your life. You've come so far. It's Friday. My man..you got another week under your belt. I bet u already forgot how ruff last Friday was. This time next week, you'll have forgotten how ruff this wek was. Until you wake up fine..and forget it all. It's that simple:

Don't pickup, and you get your life back for the first time in many years. Time starts flying. Today is officially 4 months with no subs. May as well be 4 days. I'm clean TODAY!!!

Bless you all. Funtimes,

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

Awwww... Fun Times is in love..hehe... To be honest, me and hubbie are struggling... 6 weeks today, and we just thought we'd be further than this... we just get kind of discouraged... now I know why they don't let husband and wife's go to rehab together... we help each other so much, but if one of us gives in, the other will follow.. I know this man... Queenie are you 100% normal now? We were only on subs 2 1/2 months... I understand the lack of energy and even the sleep problems still, but yesterday (part of why I was so crunk on here) and today have just sucked because of the leg pain and anxiety - I think I repierced my tounge from chewing on it so much...lol... Me and hubby can both barely walk outside to smoke a cig... my legs literally can barely hold me up... I just thought I'd be further along by now - a month and a half man... dang... I know it's not as bad as week one or two, but I'm just burnt out by the lenght of this whole process... I listen to most people's stories, and they are usually normal by now.... so I'm just wondering what's wrong with me... What is y'all's opinion on staying friends with addicts? My best friend I mentioned before... she's taking methadone now... I'm not tempted to take any opiates or anything, but it's all she really talks about, and I think damn, is this all we ever use to talk about?? Problem is, she's my one last connection to tramadol... and I know I can ask and receive... but I have to stay strong... I guess I'm the problem, not her, so I just have to deal. I can do it... gotta do it... for myself and my kids... I'm cool, it's ok... Plain Insane: haven't really heard how you're doing lately... what have you been going through? What are you planning for your wife for Mother's Day? My kid's have already given me all the cute little stuff they made. I really hope all is well with you, and I hope you start posting more now that the bullshit is over... we really want to help you through this, I know you're having a rough time. Have you been sleeping ok? We went and picked up our Ambien again just to take every once in a while because the last 2 nights have been rough, really need sleep tonight. I know you're stressed out, Plain Insane... let it out... atleast it's Friday, and you can have a relaxing weekend, right? I sound like a broken record, but thanks Fun Times for everything you said... Queenie, hurry up and sleep with him so you can find out if he's a keeper..LOL... j/k - well, my hubbie's freaking out over here..anxiety and whatnot so I need to go comfort him... laterz

lilibugg24 3 years ago

Forever may not wanna fight w/ u but I still think u beotches r crazy and fed up. All u do is complain. Get over ur withdraws u big babies. Hell Ive kicked lots of shit and I dont whine like that

lilibugg24 3 years ago

blah blah blah u say that same shit over and over again. An what dummy gets addicted to tramdol lol

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

This place is for people who have quit subs and going through withdrawals and everything that goes along with that... discussing how we're doing is not bitching or complaining... we care about each other and are trying to help each other through this stuff... and what dummy gets addicted to ANYTHING period...we're all in the same boat, all recovering... so we're going to stick to the positive stuff and encouragement, and talk about whatever we feel like to get us through this so please no more negativity! Help or get help, but please no more disruptions with negative influences. I apologize for anything I said to you lbug. It's all over.

queenie 3 years ago

Hey lilibugg, don't start none wont be none! oooohkaaay! Yes Subfree i am 100% and have been for about a month. I think it took me 5 maybe 6 weeks. You must push yourself to go,go,go and you will one day say "hey i feel pretty good".

PlainInsane 3 years ago

Fun Times, subfree

I'm good, tomorrow 14 days with no subs at all. Last night no sleep aids and got a couple hours of sleep. Wife came home with a migraine and went sraight to bed. I got up this morning and went to work, felt o.k. even though I hardly slept. About 10:00 a.m. my wife calls and says she needs to go to the acute care since her primary dr. is gone today. she says she keeps nearly passing out and she's afraid to attempt to drive. I leave work, pick her up and take her into the acute care. while she gets called in i go to a 1:00 p.m. job walk and then head back to her. Her blood pressure was high yet her heart rate was down to 42 beats p/min. They decide to do a ct scan on her head to make sure she's not having a anurism. i'm freaking out because the chemo years ago is really hard on your heart as well as other organs. They also draw several viles of blood. ct scan comes back normal and they say she has a slight bladder infection. That alone would not cause what she's going thru. Dr's are baffled. send her home with some scripts for the infecton and nausea, also tell her to stay rested and keep plenty of fluids in her. Dr. gives her a note telling her not to work till at least next Weds. and set up a appt. with her Dr. By weds. her blood work will be in. Needless to say I haven't even been thinkng about myself.Just trying to keep her comfy. It's really scary,please pray for her. i'm going to spend the weekend taking care of her so she can just kick back and take it easy. She's very frightened that its her heart. I have to watch her and if she gets any worse I need to get her into the E.R. I'm also very tired and feel like i can go to sleep tonight without any sleep aids. My pain now is nothing compared to my wifes. I'm going to worry about her now and she's a tough women but I know she's scared. I'll keep you all informed. Thanks for inquiring and caring how everything is going. Take care and i sure hope you (subfree) and hubby are feeling better by tomorrow- at least for a couple days so you can build up your strength for the next wave of b.s. I believe I'm now feeling better one day and the next is hell. I will not take any subs so don't worry:) God Bless and will let you now how everythings going tomorrow.

lilybugg24

please have some compassion and ease up. Please don't degrade others when then trying like hell to get well. God forbid something bad happen to you and then your friends turn on you. I'll pray for you also.

Fun Times 3 years ago

Hey subfree, thanks for checking in. You know, I sound like a broken record when I talk about how much i like Quuenie. I honestly am not good at getting compliments...its easier online...but please...when it comes to helping someone through addiction...I WANT ALL THOSE COMPLIMENTS...KEEP 'EM COMING LADY!!!! please.

Subfree...for what its worth...you will be getting better very soon...I swear you will. I know...a month and a half...its still a motherfucker at times. As you said...it aint week one or two...its better. This particular has got legs....I'll give it that. I felt EXACTLY like you after a month and a half. My boss was worried b/c he said I looked better after 3 weeks...he thought i used or some shit! That upset me a bit. I explained that he could grab a cup...watch me piss in it...and leave me alone.

It wears on you after awhile. The lack of energy, motivation, and sleep. But I promise...it only gets better subfree. For some reason I caught a bad week after being clean like 100 days. My body DID NOT want to fucking move. I'm thinking....what the fuck is going on? 100 days...this is fucking crazy. You know what saved me subfree...WORK. I had to go to work everyday, i dreaded getting ready and leaving, but once i was OUT OF THE HOUSE AND IN MY CAR ON MY WAY TO WORK...I WAS COOL. Working killed at least 8 hours a day. Was I at my best...fuck no. Did I do enough to make my boss happy...fuck yeah. I did my best. After work, exhausted or not, I go to NA meetings. Subfree..I cannot tell you how many days (earlier on) that I was glued to the floor...peeled myself off...took the energy God gave me, and went to a NA meeting. Then I came home and hit the floor again. Not my bed, couch, or futon...the floor. This may sound crazy...but I was too weak to lay in bed for awhile. The hardwood floor at least held me up.

I sleep on the couch now (I told Queenie that I have 2 bedrooms, I don't use either...except one for my computer and the smaller one has my a very nice olympic weight set in it (which i use a lot lately...working out has also saved my ass, its getting my mind and body healing quicker)...and that if she comes here...she can have her own room...i'll let her decorate it however she wants and just call it hers. whenever she wants to swing by Chicago, she has a free pad, i'm cool on the couch if its like that). AS for the bed thing...you read my rants...i have a an awful lot of energy, kinda smart, honestly thoughtful, and am very into trying to make people i care about happy. and she has no clue what she's in for in the sack. I told her that I'm just need a 5 gallon bucket of gatorade next to the bed...it's like that. LOL!

subfree...its gotta be tough kicking w/someone else. I did it with my friend in college. but he was dude. Can't you guys just fuck your brains out? You get exercise, good chemicals, plus maybe some good sleep. Seriously.

Unrelated to sex: Both of you. Shower at least 3 times a day!!! The fucking secong u wake up...hit the shower. You may not want to. BUT YOU WILL DO THIS, BECAUSE IM TELLING YOU IT WORKS AND CLEARS YOUR HEAD AND GETS U READY TO TAKE ON THE DAY COOL. AND SHOWER BEFORE GOING TO SLEEP!!!! THAT'S AN ORDER. AND FUCK LIKE MANIACS EVERY NIGHT. I WISH I WAS GETTING LAID DURING DAY 45, LUCKY COUPLE. OOOHHHKAY!!!!

Final thought: Sweetheart...you said you are not in an NA program. They have them online. AT LEAST BUY THE NA BOOK. THAT THING HELPED SAVE MY LIFE. IT SAVED MY BROTHER'S LIFE YEARS AGO. I FOUND HIS OLD COPY IN MY BASEMENT STORAGE, READ IT, AND ECIDED I WOULD GIVE IT A TRY. guess what. it saved my life too. I have to tell you one thing: YOU REALLY GOTTA BE DONE WITH ANYONE AND EVERYONE WHO U KNOW THAT USES DRUGS. I JUST TOLD MY BEST FRIEND OF 32 YEARS (i knew him since i was seven), not to call me anymore. period. it hurts thinking about it. but will not jeapordize my recovery in ANY way. Get this: we haven't used togather in WELL over like 15 years. he shot dope then, and that wasn't me. we lived togather going through college...and STILL didn't use togather. we knew that both of us being H addicts, it would destroy our friendship in no time. Now he caused me to miss a NA meeting I really like b/c he was shooting up before it and blacked out while I was in the car in front of his house waiting for him? Fuck that. Then he tried lying and said he took 2 valiums and didn't know what happened, until i told him I'm not fucking stupid...and I don't appreciate my "friends" insulting my intelligence or worse yet, lying to me. If he ever recovers..we can talk then. I told him to call me in 6 months if he got srious enough to get clean.

I dont have anything in common with people who's priority is seeking and using hard drugs. AT ALL. And I worked wayyyy to hard to let ANYONE mess with my recovery, their intentions are irrelevant to me. He's a very very nice guy. He really is. Fun as hell. But still using drugs. He's out of my life. period. If he cares about me (and himself...more importantly..and his daughter) enough, he can choose us over drugs. That's my opinion about associating with drug addicts. I would treat my own mother the same way, who I love more than anyone alive. My life is that serious to me. Yours should be that serious to you.

Thanks for checking in subfree. Remember...I'm here for you and your husband if yo need me. SHOWER, EXERCISE, CUDDLE, AND FUCK!

luv Fun Times.

Fun Times 3 years ago

I apologize again. I forget my manners. Fuck u bug. Listen everyone...be smart. Annie did have at least good intentions (I do believe she was truly kicking, maybe still is, and whats done is done). This fucking bug is just a prank. i mean, entertain the cockaroach if u want...but why would u you want to? This fucking bug hasnt started kicking, read its posts. I dont wish a hard kick on anyone...and even though I know its a very uncreative 'joke' by this bug...if its real...I'll be so fucking happy when it gets hit with the bug spray. Please...ignore the bug. its a stupid joke by a stupider bug,. dont you guys be stupid too, because you are not.

Fun Times 3 years ago

Plaininsane,

I just read your post. Gosh man...i don't know what to say. I'll pray for your wife tonite (at least I know her last name from our emails...and she is your wife...God will know who I mean). Listen man, these are bug posts from yesterday/today:

"I agree with forveranni. Man these bitches are crazylol. I can totally c where ur coming from lol" and "Forever may not wanna fight w/ u but I still think u beotches r crazy and fed up. All u do is complain. Get over ur withdraws u big babies. Hell Ive kicked lots of shit and I dont whine like that".

Dude, i cannot tell you how much i admire what an incredibly good person you are. If you were Catholic you'd be cannonized as a Saint. To me...to use your wife and her in the same post is plaininsane. Not you..you are just too kind...if that is possible.

I'll be on my knees before I sleep paying for your wife. I swear on my dad's soul. Email me her name. Please. My mother gives to a lot of charities...mostly all churches...not all Catholic. I get that stuff too, but not like mom. We'll have a mass dedicated to her...I'll give you a list of churches (worldwide), and u pick a couple. Please. It would make me feel good. They said a lot of masses for me.

Truth be told...I had Holy Water from Lourdes that I used daily (three signs of the cross...head...lips and heart) three times a day daily during the ruff part of my kick. That, the masses said for me around the world, all my mom's rosaries for me, my own determination, exercise, love towards myself for once and most of all a Recovery Program (NA) which I followed strictly (90 meetings in 90 days, a sponsor to guide me (who I listened to without reservation), all made this kick work. I feel REALLY GOOD. I may still get a bit manic (Queenie's diagnoses)...but that's who I am and I am CLEAN!

I cannot believe with all this going on that you are praying for this bug who is obviously into some kinda sick prank.

You are one hell of a guy. You are a bigger man than me. Please do email your wife's name. I'll send you a choice of masses. You've come too far and are too good of a person for God to let you down. Luv u man, Funtimes.

PS. Let your wife know that everyone here loves you, and we are all pulling hard and I (and I'm sure others) are on their knees praying for her. God Bless you man. And God bless your wife.

Fun Times 3 years ago

Just wanted everyone SEE that sure, my sleep pattern is disrupted, look at the times of my last post, it isn't even 6am here abd I posted and was online until 3am. I have to leave for softball by 10am, get ready at 9am. And guess what: I'm happy that yesterday was onr more clean day!!!! And to day will be too. Softball is a doublehaeder...so I will try and get a quick nap in.

Plaininsane I emailed you. Shoot me back with your wiife's name, so I can use it in my prayers and the masses I'll run by you.

Morning everyone...SHOWER EARLY...get off to a great day!!! I'll be back. later for now,

queenie 3 years ago

Hey all, im at work on my lunch break. They floated me to another unit today (usually on cardiac). Anyway, its times like this i dig deep for courage and realize how little confidence i have (you would'nt know that tho cause i'm front'n for real). This is when the work comes in to play in recovery. I dont want to be on this floor and i dont feel comfortable. "God grant me the serenity to accept the things Queenie can't change." My ego does'nt want to ask for help or admit that i really have no idea about these labs, charting and care plans in this situation (hopefully none of your relatives are in my care-lol lmao). I dont do well with change so God give me "the courage to change the things that i can." Its times like these that i would take something to alleviate some of this anxiety and stress. Oh well they say "if it doesn't kill you it makes you stronger" ( if thats the case im fkn popeye) My point in sharing this is to tell you guys that recovery is not all joy and pleasantries. there are times when you gotta dig deep and "do you". Can i do anything about this......no. Do i have people depending on me.....yes. Am i gonna stay here and kick butt like Queenie does.......absolutely! Queenie is a soldier y'all and she cant do anything about it anyway "and the wisdom to know the difference" ok! Ps. Thanks for letting me share!

PlainInsane 3 years ago

Queenie,

Lean on God as you do, you'll get thru it. Thanks for sharing. I just said a prayer for you. Hope your day goes well.

Funtimes

I'll shoot you an email.

foreverannie 3 years ago

Queenie, I know how ya feel. I go to work feeling like an alien every day. Keep trucking girl. You are probably damn good at what you do :)

queenie 3 years ago

ooooohkaaaay! lol

Fun Times 3 years ago

Queenie, you know you'll be fine. You are a tough lady. I know thats true. Hell..you have to be tough just to "Front" when you're all freaked out. Your patients, well you know "let God's will be done" with them. LOL. Hey... may I ask...why do you keep referring to yourself in the third person. I mean its cool...but I'm just curious ;) Thanks for sharing. Glad you decided to, you are an inspiring person. And kinda sexy.

queenie 3 years ago

Kinda ?

PlainInsane 3 years ago

Slept a good 12 hours last night. Got up this morning for about 4 hours then laid back down and was able to sleep another 4 hours. I think my body finally had it. That was great. Right now feeling so so. Some of the w/d symptoms are fading a little. Maybe turning the corner now. Still feel no energy though.

Fun Times

hope you got my email?

foreverannie 3 years ago

Hey is anyone waking up with a dull, nagging, a little throbbing morning hangover like type headache. I have been averaging between 6-8 hours of sleep. Any suggestions as to what it is?

queenie 3 years ago

annie, i had bad headaches when i first starting to W/d and it lasted only the first week or two. how long have you had this? How long have you been without subs?

PlainInsane 3 years ago

No real headaches here, just all the other terrible stuff.

Fun Times

Great talking to you tonight. Lets keep in touch.

PlainInsane 3 years ago

Subfree and any other mother out there,

Happy Mothers Day, hope you can have a great day!!

foreverannie 3 years ago

I've been without subs for about a month. And have had these headaches for about a week. Usually when I sleep upstairs I noticed.

PlainInsane 3 years ago

annie,

Don't know where you live, but is it possible allergies could have something to do with it. this is definately the time of year with all the pollen and shit floating around. Also humidity sure makes a difference. maybe you should try a humidifier or de-humidifier at night in the room where you sleep?? could help.

take care.

Fun Times 3 years ago

Its was great talking to you to plainsane. When you feel better..you may want to change your sign in name...and i mean this in a fun way...but you are not plaininsane. you are someone really really cool.A great husband, dad, and man. I almost feel guity calling you plainsane... no lie. Plus you are the most spititial sounding person (IMO) on this site, or that i even know in real life. You are so forgiving that i think it helped everyone take a example from you, and b/c of u and subree, this site is a wonderful place again for people going through and feeling some really bad times to come for help...and only we can help each other...a doctor may know more about the mechanisms of a suboxone kick...but we know how it FEELS, and had EXPERIENCE COMING OFF IT WHICH WE SHARE TO HELP EACH OTHER. It's priceless. We only have one earthly life...I'm glad we keep helping each other save it. Dying of old age, realizing that i spent my life numb on opiates, would have been a wasted life. I wont let that happen. I'm hapy that we're talking, and I'm happy we'll keep taling. I hope your wife is better, thanks for the pics, you guys look happy. I can't wait to get married and have a child (DID U GET THAT QUUENI! ;) ) I hope YOUR WIFE has an awesome nother's day. Your friends were dead on...you look like Paul Newman...its just a fact. what a cool guy to look like. Lucky man.

Annie...i'm glad things are cool as far as all of us geting along and i'm glad you are here. About the headches..I have one idea. If you quit drinking caffeine during your kick (u know...i dont)...that will get you hedaches (so will not drinking enough fluids..water is important...dont dehydrate even a little).

But caffeine...I quit drinking coffee awhile bacjk, and it didnt happen immediately, buy i was feeling what you describe. If look loo at the ingredients on Excedrin or other headaches medicines...notice they usually have 2 ingredients: Acetompinaphen and Caffeine. IF you have stopped taking caffeine...its a distinct posibility that is causing headaches. Dehydration is another. It sounds like you are doing graet. Keep it up...I'm truly proud of you.

SUBFREE, WHERE ARE YOU LADY?!? .COME ON...I HONESTLY HAVE BEEN WAITING TO HEAR FROM YOU... CAN YOU CHECK IN PRETTY PLEASE. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE...IF YOU USED...ITS NO BIG DEAL AT ALL. IT JUST MEANS THAT YOU NEED TO STOP AND GET BACK WITH US NOW! IF YOU HAVEN'T, THATS GREAT. BUT EITHER WAY..PLEASE...YOU ARE SO SWEET...PEOLE REALLY CARE ABOUT YOU, QUEENIE WAS ASKING ME ABOUT YOU ON THE PHONE LAST NITE..SHE CARES. PLAININSANE AND ANNIE CARE. come on misses, don't leave us hanging.

no matter what...you get back and post asap subfree. i know its hard when u re kicking with someone else and your best friend uses, God that must be hard. FORGET REMORSE...REMEMBER RECOVERY. many MANY times relapse is a part of recover. I personally know people who were clean between 2 and 10 years and relapsed. but they quit using and continued recovering. its very common...just in case it happned you. as ive said, thhere is NO shame in relapsing, the only same is not putting down the drugs and not seeking Recovery. I'm gonna be honest...you made it sem like hubby was having a ruff go...and you were 'doing the thinking for both of you".

subfree, that is extremely unfair to you. the result will be two active addictions before long. i know from experience. you probably (almost certainly) needs some time apart. you can only help him when after you have cured yourself. i mean that.

Queenie..sorry for keeping you up so late AGAIN. I just love talking wuit you so much. 3 or 4 hours NEVERS goes by so fast as it does when im talking and laughing with you. God really blessed me by putting you into my life when i needed you most. thats as true as anything i can say. Thank you angel. angel of mercy,

Happy mother's day Moms!!!

Fun Times

foreverannie 3 years ago

Fun Times and Plain Insane,

Thanks for replying. Both or your advice just may be dead on. Both of my kids have severe aleergies, mine is just to bees. So that could be a possibility. My husband asked me today if I was drinking enough fluids. Luckidly, I slept on the couch downstairs last night and No headache. Sometimes when I drink coffee and take Excedrin, it goes away. Which brings me to the question, are you psychic by any chance Fun times lol.

Before kicking subs, I would drink 3 to 4 cups of coffee. I craved it. Now I'm lucky to have 1 cup and it doesn't taste good. The last time I had headaches like this was when I was pregnant with my son. But I'm pretty positive that isn't the case.

Another question, I have felt really unmotivated lately, like really bad. I'm not sure if I'm depressed or not. My husband was just laid off, so that may have a factor, but geez all I can think about is "living like this sucks". I haven't worked this week because I'm just part- time and they have been testing, so not much to do.

Happy Mothers Day Queenie, Sub Free, Plain Insanes wife, and Fun times mommy ;)

queenie 3 years ago

Thanks for the Mother's Day wish Annie! I have 6 kids to 6 different baby daddy (all by c-section) the state has them and I'm kinda relieved. I'm sure they're better off. Its not something i think aboutmuch anymore. Outta site outta mind ya know! I'm missing that maternal instinct anyway. The only time i really think of them is when i think "Gosh, i wish i didn't have these stretch marks!" Anyway,i suggest you take 81 mg of aspirin and drink plenty of like some of these folks said. I often get headaches when i don't drink coffee too. Coffee w/d takes approx 7 to 10 days. Hope u feel better.

Fun Times 3 years ago

annie...if you go back and check out some earlier posts, you'll see that we both became exremely unmotivated at the same time. i know how u feel. i thought...what the hell...i felt better three weeks ago than now...and i haven't used. in particular i had no motivation whatsoever (i mean my best friend was the floor). This part of the kick does suck...and its new to me...ive never 'regresed' in any kick before.

merchant posted a very accurate desription of PAWS which is what i think you have..i know i did and it still flares up (ive read some that were wrong imo). hers said PAWS for us manifested itself in lack of motivation and physical weekness. it doesnt really hit until you've been clean like over a month or so, but it does kinda suck.

I drank caffeine and took caffeine pills for energy for awhile...still drink coffee as needed. chocolate also i found restores motivation...i dont know why. but you have to move...its not hard to do...but its crazy hard to start. IF YOU HAVE TIME OFF FROM WORK...LAY IN THE SUN. THAT IS A GREAT REMEDY FOR PAWS. i dont think you are depressed annie...this is natural.

the real cure is a good 12 step program. not just making a meeting...i mean immersing yourself into the program sponosor and all. nothing rewires your brain better or faster, remember annie...truth be told...our brains are messed up b/c of substance abuse. YOU CANNOT FIX ABROKEN MIND WITH A BROKEN MIND, PERIOD. you know me a little by now. do i seem like someone who would be doing 'group therapy'. i only do for one reason...it works. better than anything else i've tried. so i stick with it. these people (addicts) are the experts at helping other addicts. they make my advice look like something a child would write. after living and breathing recovery for 10 or 20 years, after having serious opiate addictions and behavioral disorders...these are the prople i trust with putting my life back togather. these people are the ONLY reason. let me repeat ONLY reason...I am even clean today. They'll help rewire your brain to think in a productive/non-addictive way. and they are free. i hope everyone gives them a shot. fyi: my girl is in recovery too, has been for years. they have a saying in NA/AA, they're both cool: come to 90 meetings in 90 days. get a sponsor. read the book. work the steps. if your life isn't better after 90 days, they give a monry back guarantee: they will refund all your pain. i dont want the pain back. ive had enough.

Fun Times 3 years ago

and i mean for what its worth...queenie is a terrible liar. she really only had 5 kids and 5 babies dadies. ;) i dunno...some people just say silly things for attention. maybe she was trying to be a little funny and lighten the mood. i can see that. she's a great lady....thats the honest to God truth. you all know that anyway. she's like all of us...a little worn by the kick (although she wont admit it), and really worn from talking to me until 4am florida time. But we both love it. I hope evertone has someone in their life who they can laugh with like i laugh with her. It makes the days so much more fun...and bearable. I thank God for this site, b/c it gave me you people, and by far most of all...it gave me her. aside from a good 12 step program w/recovering adicts (NA), i implore everyone to not take themselves or the kick too seriously and LAUGH as much as you can. Like sex (which i just about forgot about its been so long since ive been laid), laughter, exercise and even tears produce awesome natural chemicals that help you get better. meetings do too..they've done blind studies....noone knows why but being in a recovery producices increases in serotonin, dopamine, and endorphin levels. its all good stuff.

foreverannie 3 years ago

Yeah, sounds like me- the stuff you described Fun Times. So will I eventually get better? Become more energetic? I dread the summer because I know I won't be working and I'll start feeling useless :)

Queenie, you can't be serious about all of that stuff you said about your kids. Mom to mom- I know your joking. I hope you got to spend some time with them over the weekend.

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

Hey everyone... Happy Belated Mother's Day... Plain insane I hope your wife is doing better, been thinking of her... Forgive me now because there's been a lot of posts since I wrote so I have a lot to say, might be kinda long, and I might jump around....WOW - I had a hell of a weekend. I'm freaking out because I think Annie's right, Fun Times is psychic!!!!! He always says the exact things I need to hear... I can't explain it, it's crazy!!! I don't know what the hell it is, but he just happens to post about everything I've been thinking about and dealing with all weekend... it's crazy, I was telling my husband (well, I've kind of been mentioning it since the beginning), but I was telling him that I think we really need to go to some NA meetings or something.... I told him I need a sponsor or someone I can call when I'm having trouble... I really didn't want to talk about cravings or anything on this site because no one else is, and I didn't want to set anyone else off or hurt anyone's recovery. And I'm not going to. I just think we need to learn the skills it takes to deal with everything..... we're going to start working on our house, push ourselves... we have everything we need to finish the remodel, we just have to go DO it... Fun Times, everything you said really, really hit home with me... I mean, all of y'all are really busy, you don't have to be on here helping people, but you do, and I got my husband to read what you wrote about the NA, pushing yourself, and all that... and I think it finally clicked for him... so I think we're going to be ok. I am also taking to heart what you said about cutting ties with addicts. See, I hardly talked to her for the first few weeks, and I didn't have any problems.... it's like, even if we don't discuss "pills", I can't talk to her without thinking about it because that's just what she's all about right now. But what really sucks is she has three kids that I LOVE with all my heart and will miss dearly... I think I'm going to just take a break from talking to her until I'm stronger. Also, in the beginning, I was turning to God for strenght, and I quit doing that within the past week or two, and I need to go back to that. Totally. Annie - I read on Wikipedia that serotonin is involved in several things including aggression and migranes... I mention the aggression because I believe I behaved inappropriately towards you, and I wanted to apologize and let you know that I'm normally not like that at all.... I believe you are a generally GREAT person, and I hate it that this controversy put us at odds. I said some things I shouldn't have said, and I want you to know that I wouldn't have put those emails up here.... I'm one of those people that say A LOT of things they don't mean when they get angry or riled up... and you were right, I don't think you would have brought any of that up, period, if you didn't really believe it - my thought was just that - what if you were wrong and the damage that would cause... so just try to see it from my point of view... Ok, it's over, I know, won't say anything else about it, just wanted to say I'm glad you're still here, and I guess we're ALL stubborn. I hope we can make a truce, and I hope you don't hold any of that against me. I was a bitch, plain and simple, but I'm just not myself all the time right now. Also, me and my husband have been feeling the SAME exact way... no motivation, and it also started around a month - that's why I was recommending the mood boosters.... I feel pretty damn good today. But it's like my mind is wanting to do this and this and this, but my body just won't follow suit. I've came to realize that after years of abusing my brain, I would be pretty damn lucky if it got back to normal in 6 months, much less 1 or 2.... it's just going to take time. It makes me feel better to research stuff so I can understand what my brain and body is going through... you might want to try that and learn all you can about it. But I bet Fun Times is right, it's probably caffeine - the headaches. If your body was use to getting a lot, and now it's only getting a small amount of that or none, it's probably craving it & headache is the main withdrawal from caffeine. But hang in there girl, I believe that the motivation thing is totally normal - a normal process of sub withdrawal since it seems to be we're all going through it... I mean, be careful because that's what got to me... I was rough and tough the first month and then I lost steam.... Wiki also mentioned depression - this comes and goes for me right now... I can't explain it, it's not really depression, depression - 3 days out of the past month and a half since the kick I went psycho where I couldn't stop crying and stuff... I don't know what was up with that, but besides that I just get frustrated or something instead of really depressed because I want to be 100% NOW, and I tell myself "I'll NEVER be normal!!" But I just push through it. That's the only option, really. Queenie was soooo right... every day is not going to be sunshine and roses. Thank you for sharing Queenie, you helped put things in perspective. Hey if anyone ever gets down just think, I could have it worse... I could live on a 100+ acre farm with in-laws like subfree with every animal known to man (no pigs...lol) that have to be taken care of daily, and with roosters waking you up every morning at 5:30 whether the sun is up or not...LOL... and I'm not exactly what you would call a "country" girl... I love animals but damn... Annie: like I said earlier, I'm taking Fun Times advice, and I'm throwing myself back into my business and my house... I'm just gonna push and do it - you will drive yourself CRAZY sitting around with nothing to do besides watch TV or something... like you said, summer's coming up, and you need something to do - what do you enjoy doing on your down time? What did you fill last summer with? Oh, I wanted to tell you that I am trying to update my MySpace.. I looked on there, and I hadn't been on there since March of 08 - so I changed everything cuz it was WAAAY off, and I'm going to go through these 100's of pics I have and put some new ones on there. Fun Times - I have to address you, and you know what I'm going to say. You're always right on with everything you say, and you are so sweet to call me out. I wanted to email you some pics of me and my family so you could see exactly who's lives you've actually impacted. Is that cool Queenie? LOL... I am so happy she's done so much for you Fun Times... sounds like y'all really get along great, and y'all both deserve so much happiness... we don't hear enough from Queenie, but I know she's EXTREMELY busy and hard working so I respect that. She sounds like a wonderful woman Fun Times... you know me and my husband met online... Ok, I think this is long enough...

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

Also I wanted to say that hot tubs and pools really help... if you don't have either, go find one.... it's too damn hot here now to get in the hot tub for me, but swimming is great too...

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

Man, I always try to seperate my words like everyone else does to make it easier to read, but when I post it always posts altogether... anyone know what's up with that?

Fun Times 3 years ago

Annie....first, as far as something not that important goes...of course you are right, queenie was joking. Queenie...i tell you here, not when we talk for hours almost every nite....but here: PEOPLE (INCLUDING MYSELF ) NEED YOU. UNDERSTAND THAT LADY. NOT ONLY ARE YOU FAR ALONG WITHOUT SUBS, YOU HAVE YEARS IN RECOVERY. YOO'RE VERY SMART. CAN YOU PLEASE BRING IT LIKE I KNOW YOU CAN? I SHOULDN'T HAVE TO ASK...YOU SHOULD WANT TO (in my humble opinion(. I HAVE SO MUCH RESPECT FOR YOU WHEN IT COMES TO RECOVERY. please help. if you think NA was vital in saving your life, or that NA helped you more than you ever imagined it would, let other people know that....please. i know this is coming off stronger tha i want. so now i am whispering.

please queenie. help save some lives. one might be mine.

Annie...whatever you do, remember this. You must get this: YOU ARE ONLY ALLOWED TO THINK ABOUT TODAY. I mean that. I would say (truthfully) that you are only allowed to think about this exact moment in a day called today. But "JUST FOR TODQAY: is a FOUNDATION BLOCK in a revorering adicts RECOVERY. There is no tomorrow for us annie. The only things that we can allow ourselves to think about are things happening just for today. THAT CUTS YOUR 'PROBLEMS/CONCERNS' DOWN AN AWFUL LOT. Doesn't it annie? There is no more summer to worry or care about for us. there is just for today. So you see...you already have a lot less to worry, think, or have anxiety over.

Can you make it through TODAY annie? Yeah you can. I thought so. Then you are clean, sober, and most beautifully...you are free from active drug use...YOU ARE TRULY FREE AND BLESSED WOMAN ANNIE, just for today. Ecen my new addict friends who haven't used for TWENTY (20) have exactly as much clean time as you. and they'll tell you that themselves. they've told me. they have today clean. just like me. and yesterday. and the day before that. thats all.

Annie...i need to know your thoughts getting into actual Recovery...aka ...a 12 step program. Please let me know. Then I can give you my best advice.

Of course you are only going to get better. Of course you'll be 100% again without drugs. Of course the real questions are...when will that be...and what if anything can I do to get well as soon as possible. I have ideas/suggestions. Some i think will prove to be good. Let me know how you feel about getting into Recovery/12 step program (how and why you feel however you do), and when you let me know...I'll give some good advice if I can. I'll certainly try.

DO NOT FORGET THAT YOU SHOULD ONLY...AND I MEAN ONLY...ALLOW YOURSELF TO THINK ABOUT THINGS AS THEY ARE AFFECTING YOU just for today. TAKE CARE OF BUSINESS...just for today. STAY CLEAN...just for today. AND GO THROUGH A TINY BIT OF HELL, but do it just for today. Tomorrow is coming for sure annie. t5hen you can think about it. but you cant change tomorrow today. and you cant know wht tomorrow will bring....only what is going on today.

That advice applies to EVERYONE HERE, most of all myself.

write me back annie w/ an answer about your thoughts on being in a Recovery program. and take care everyone. don't forget to love yourselves. please.

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

Fun Times - I would like some of that advice... and Annie - I think it's ok to plan things and have something to look forward to for the summer, but like Fun Times said - can't stress about it... maybe think of a good reward for yourself this summer

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

Hey my hubbie said I might have gave the wrong impression... I did not use this weekend... it was rough because my father in law was in the hospital so y'all pray for him...

Plain Insane 3 years ago

Thanks everyone for your prayers and concerns about my wife. The whole weekend was about taking care of her and forgetting as much as I could about my pain. I actually went shopping for her, made sure the house was clean and cooked all her meals. It was nice and she really appreciated it. I'm still at work and it's 6:41 p.m. It's been an awful day with alot of pain. I've been terribly busy and was asked by my boss to do some things only I was capable of doing because of my LEED AP status. It was very rough on me. Now i'm ready to go home and try to take care of my wife. I know we all go thru the same issues so I admire all of you for your strength and fight. I'm having a little energy early in the morning and then just like that its gone. I pray for all of you everynight and love to read your posts. Hopefully by Weds. the blood test results will be back and we'll know a little more as to whats going on. Sat. was 2 weeks with completely no subs and tomorrow will be 5 weeks with a total of about 5mg in the first 3 weeks. Sleep has been a little better but the energy is still zapped. Continue to be strong all and lets continue to help each other get thru this. I'm going home now and will post later. God Bless.

Fun Times

Once again thanks for the call this weekend it gives me more strength everytime we talk. I thank God for all of you people.

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

Awesome hearing from you Plain insane... it's amazing how this whole recovery process really puts things into perspective huh... it makes me realize how dear my family is to me, especially my husband... he told me if he could, he would take on my withdrawals along with his own so I wouldn't suffer anymore.... now that's love..lol... then he said - I didn't say I wouldn't bitch about it, hehe... I told him you better be careful what you wish for because during like week 2 or 3 he hadn't been sleeping at all, and I prayed - really prayed and told God I would sacrafice that night's sleep so he could sleep because he was really suffering, and I swear, it happened.... I only slept like 2 hours that night... I dunno.. but anyway, I really hate it that you're having a rough time still, I hope tomorrow is better for you, but more importantly I really, really hope everything is ok with your wife - please keep us updated. You're a very strong person, I probably would have broke down if I had had your weekend, but you stayed strong for your wife & that's out of this world - you're pulling at my heart strings... God Bless all of you & I'll be praying for everyone...

Fun Times 3 years ago

SUBFREE IS BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ALRIGHT! I'm so glad to hear from you lady...you had me scared. Your husband is right...I was a little worried about you. I am REALLY glad you showed up today (we were writing at the same time earlier...you posted...i finished...then saw your name. I had to go to a meeting...otherwise of course I would have said: SUBFREE IS IN THE HOUSE, WITH HER HUSBAND TOO, HOW COOL IS THAT EVERYONE!!!!...about 3 hours ago).

I want to say Hi to you and plaininsane. lemme just grab a bit of food...b/c I'd like to try and write a nice post and dont wanna rush. This site is too important to me. I'm of ythe opinion this is as serious as life and death. so I shall grab a bite and return. Had to say Hi to yopu subfree as fast as I could first...and of course my man plaininsane as well. we talked (PS. Thanks for that...so I know he is at leasr alive ;) ) I shall return.

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

I have to admit, I was wondering why you ignored me, lol... I thought you were wrapped up in helping Annie so I let it go... I'm joking by the way.... anyway, thanks for explaining... yeah, I had a good weekend actually, I cooked all weekend which is one of my passions that I miss... Saturday afternoon I kind of wigged out a little, but it's all good... not much pain today which is AWESOME - you are so sweet - Girls, I can't believe these men on here LOL! You just don't meet guys like this where I live... well, there's not many people to meet out here anywhere lmao.... Hey but I wanted to say I do live kinda close to Shreveport, LA - bet there's some really good NA meetings going on there, gonna check it out... it's still like an hour and a half away though which sucks and probably would prevent us from being able to go every day like I would like... will be looking for your post Fun Times... Sweet dreams

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

Oh I wanted to ask everyone - I all of a sudden started having these breathing attacks the past couple of nights - it's REALLY scary & like my worst nightmare & even my father in laws prescription inhaler doesn't work - does anyone have asthma or know someone close to them who does? I read up on it, and I'm debating whether that's it or not... I switched to smoking lights like two weeks ago & now I'm having breathing problems which doesn't make any sense to me... I KNOW I need to quit smoking, but I don't think I can deal with that right now, but it's like my worst nightmare not to be able to breathe like that... I hate it when I'm even stopped up & can't breathe through my nose, I'd rather burn alive or something.... thanks guys...

Fun Times 3 years ago

i can eat later. subfree...your husband is luck, and im sure that works both ways. you are lucky to have each other. I'd give my left....arm ....to be recovering with Queenie right now. I told her yesterday when we were talking that it might be tuff for subfree to be recovering with her husband at the same time. she reminded me that recovering alone is worse. the empty bed...and i'm not talking about sex here at all (thats just the biggest bonus ever), wears on an addict recovering alone after awhile. She's right. You and your husband are sooooooo lucky to have each other at this time. You really are.

My email is garysloane@att.net. It would be so cool to see you, husband and children. Plaininsane was kind enough to send me pics as well. It was just a super cool thing that from this very anonymous site (uuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhh scary. lol!) I made a couple friends who are nice enough to actually show me family pics. REALLY...NOW HOW COOL IS THAT. IN THE MIDST OF KICKING THE NEVER ENDING KICK (no shit...am i lying...fuck this kick is fucking crazy long, lmao for real! u guys know...fuck already. lol!), in the midst of this...i get to know people who care, and are cool enough to show me their family. THAT IS JUST PLAIN SWEET (for a woman) and plain cool (for a man). send em to me...id luv that.

It is really hard for me to overemphasize how important NA is to me, and how important I TRULY BELIEVE IT IS FOR ALL OF YOU. i cant over-emphasize it. its that important. I think I made it pretty clear, by the time I quit subs ( and everything else) i WAS FUCKED IN THE HEAD...even more than i am now. hahaha. really though. I didn't quit drugs b/c I lost/was losing my job and/or things. I quit b/c I WAS HONESTLY LOSING MY MIND. and quitting subs was NOT even in my plan AT ALL. I had a legal script. some guy in NA convinced me that kicking subs was no big deal, I believed him, told my boss i needed 2 weeks off work to quit this script...took my last 8mg pill (never tapered) and flushed the rest down the toilet. then came day 2. fuckkkkk me. nah...it wasn't easy. Should I be angry at this guy and scream at him...I should've tapered...whats wrong with you man!!!! No. because he's 29 years old. and he is dead. he over dosed and is now dead. that was a very fun call. I called him to go to a meeting. his mother answered his phone. i asked is Mike around. she said no. he is dead. and she cried. just like you parents think she would.

so ask me how important i think being in recovery is now. he quit going to meetings...before dying. he has one run left in him. he was only 29.5 years old. phhewwwwww. fuck. i was always sure it couldnt happen to me. i was always wrong.

if any of you people are kicking opiates for the first time EVER, and you know you got this thing beat...kindly disregard everything i say. just beat this addiction that controlled your entire life without any help. give it a shot. for those of us who have tried kicking by ourselves and fucked up once or twice...i have advice. I'm not saying that you cant make a good run at getting clean on your own. so far so good, right? or maybe, so far...what now? nod if you hear me. this kick is a different animal. it saps you of all your strength, energy, and motivation. IT STEALS YOUR FUCKING LIFE FORCE. I know.

NA has really accelerated my healing process. THIS PROGRAM AINT A FUCKING JOKE. I'M REALLY NOT INTO SOME 'HEY LETS ALL GET CLEAN TOGATHER KUMBAYA BULLSHIT. neither is this program. its hardcore. its real. every motherfucker at that meeting with their 5 and 10 and 20 years clean peeled themselves off a fucking floor in the beginning just to make meetings...until meetings made sense. you guys are smart...i mean that. given a basic text and some recovering addicts with years of wisdom born from their pain and their experiences...and you will all do what i did: WRING EVERY OUNCE OF HELP THERE IS OUT OF THIS PROGRAM LIKE IT WAS A WET RAG FILLED WITH LIQUID FUCKING GOLD.

i gave myself once simple rule concerning my recovery...which has served me very well indeed. my philosophy is this: "i will do everything i can to stay clean that i did to use".

"i will do everything i can to stay clean that i did to use".

and that says it all. nothing stopped me from using when i wanted to use a/k/a everyday. nothing. unlike drugs...Recovery is free. meetings are free. a sponsor is free. and as far as 'how fuff the suboxone kick is/can be'...i'll say this: i do not know how...i do not know why...i just know that being in the 12 step program of NA (and even though i never really drank...i go to certain AA meetings, b/c the principles are INDENTICAL) has made thgis kick soooooo much more bearable. i cant stress that enough. please....just try it. now i am proudly addicted to recovery. subfree...i think u ssaid that in the beginning u turned to God fror strength amd then starting cutting back on that and things just got a little worse. God is soooooooo important to my Recovery. When I skip doing the things that I did to get clean (make meetings when i was sick, pray to God for strength, forget this is a war i cant think about losing, etc.) i make the kick resurface all over again, and it becomes harder than it should and thats just a fact. once i missed going to meetings for 3 days i a row. i had dreams of using after that. fuck that. the program has my mind so focused...i dont even dream about drugs.

you know we can all abstai for awhile. maybe a month, year, or two. but the same addict will use again...i promise you all that. SO WE MUST CHANGE OURSELVES. JUST SAYING KNOW ISNT ENOUGH GUYS. BELIEVE ME..I WISH IT WERE, AS MUCH AS ALL OF YOU. but we need to change. let an loving, hardcore group of people (NA) who have done what we atre doing and worse show you how. i am. and i thank God for it. They take a lot of weight off this kick. They really do.

Take care everyone. God Bless you all.

foreverannie 3 years ago

I'm not so sure about the NA Program. I don't want to run into people I know to be honest about it. I live in a very small town, so I can hear everyone saying "look, theres "bleep" going to a NA meeting, I wonder what for". So I'm going to do it a different way, I have done it a different way. I don't really communicate with anyone who takes pain pills, except 1 friend on subs and she hates them and wants to get off. But we don's talk abou them except she may ask how I'm doing from time to time.

She's going through alot. Her husband was recently murdered over pills, although they try to say it was suicide but we know better. She's 7 months pregnant with her first child. And the story goes on and on.

Oh, I'm sorry, they recently switched her to methadone because shes getting farther along in her pregnancy. Hence, she has to get up and go to Methadone Clinic every morning at 5 AM right after her husband was murdered in order to keep from going in withdrawals so she won't lose the baby. What is the 12 step recovery Fun Times. Aren't we holding our own little NA meeting here.

foreverannie 3 years ago

Sub Free,

It's cool. I'm not really upset, I just didn't like the threatening to post email things. But it was big of you to say your sorry.

I'm not sure about the breathing attacks. Maybe you should ask your doctor, it could be allergies or switching cigarrettes. I'm not a smoker, so I don't know much about that.

Fun Times 3 years ago

hey guys. annie...this is definately not a 12 step meeting...although i dont doubt that there is therapeutic value in what we do. subfree- annie-plaininsane- if you cant make meetings (subfree..i'll be honest...i dont know if id drive an hour and a half away...although i might...in my citiy thee are NA/AA meetings non-stop, i can hit at least 6 different ones 15 minutes from anywhere); BUY THE BASIC TEXT FOR NA...READ IT. God it helps.

I'm guessing that some people, not just us, are thinking...i can do this myself and I will. Well...sure you can...for awhile. But what made any of us abuse drugs? There's a reason. Furthermore how did our drug abuse affect us phyisically, mentally, spitiritually, and behaviorally. These are things that are good to find out and 'fix' as best we can. I'm sure many people think...'yeah, but how will this take my restless legs away or help me sleep'. try it and find out. addicts by nature want instant gratification...'cure me now'...myself included. i'm learning patience. i'm getting strength from others. maybec mostly...i'm getting outside of my own unhappy mind...and having a bunch of positive stuff stuffed inside my subconscious and conscience mind. it really makes a shitty day better...what else can i say. and u guys know me. c'mon..i really am near the last person in line that wants to be told what to do. but honestly...i can admit defeat. whatever i did got me to where i am. because i am in Recovery (NOT JUST ABSTAINING AND BEING THE SAME GUY) i feel better every day.

a 12 step program has just that. 12 distinct steps that one goes through with a sponsor and the group discussions. on this site....there are no steps. there ae no agreed upon rules for a happy kick. we're just winging it here. trying to get help and be helpful and share what we've been thru and know, but we are just winging it. I wish u would all buy the book. Pesonally, i dont care who sees me go to meetings b/c in my city, there is no stigma from being a Recovering addict. WE have so many not in Recovery. plus...i can take a clean urine test anytime. only through the help of NA/AA. go to AA if you can,. its the same. just substitute "pills" for alcohol in your mind. thats what i do anyway.

By the way...they take these "steps" quite seriously. Church never got and kept me clean. I never got and kept myself clean. I ried the "i'm just going to avoid drugs, people that use, and pretend they never existed and don't exist method." there was only one problem with that. i am an addict. and i take my addiction wherever i go. and until i address my addiction, i'm the same guy who used before...and who will use again. the same things that caused me to seek obliovion before will resurface. i know this all too well.

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

Downloading the NA books and audio books (almost ready), couldn't wait for Amazon or Ebay, lol... More Later

queenie 3 years ago

Of course i was joking about kids (im childless on purpose ). Subfree, i also suffer from breathing attacks. I believe its allergy induced or possibly psychosomatic (anxiety). It happens to me every summer when the humidity kicks in (now). I have self medicated with every kind of allergy/asthma med off the med cart at work to no avail. I will suggest you go to a health food store and buy something called Turmeric root. I take two caps when im struggling and it works. Smoking will definitely exacerbate the problem. The Turmeric root is great for many reasons and its comprised of some sort of curry powder. Anyway ,God gave us everything we need naturally and this will help you. Also, vicks vapor rub helps alot and when your struggling make sure your proppedup with 2 or 3 pillows as this aids in lung expansion and is what we do in the clinical setting. Today i started back to school working on some prereqs. im happy, healthy, and greatful that the Lord loves me and meets all my needs. May he bless you and keep you. Love Queenie

Fun Times 3 years ago

see...look above...the program works;)

foreverannie 3 years ago

OK, I gave it some thought, the 12 steps program. My girlfriend, who goes to the methadone clinic told me that there is a NA 12 step Program there. We are going to try it. Sub Free, what book are you talking about.

Queenie, what can I take to get motivated?

queenie 3 years ago

well....a double shot expresso usually works for me! also, i suggest you take a multi-vit plus iron and a vit b complex because when abusing narcs your body is depleted of essential vit and nutrients. Eat fruits and veggies, drink water and exercise. Its really simple ,take care of your body and it will take care of you! Focus on positive thoughts and force yourself out of your comfort zone!

Plain Insane 3 years ago

Wife has vertigo, blood work fine, heart fine, ct scan on head fine. dr. says it happens to some people and should subside. hooray!!! I'm on the other hand having a day like the 6th or 7th day. I don't know how I made it thru 8 hours of work. I'm really sick all over can hardly stand up. Tried to lie down but started the bouncing all over. I thought I was past this worse but now i don't know if it will ever go. God help me!!

queenie 3 years ago

Let me just say out of obligation that if you (subfree) have any swelling of the tongue,lips ,face ,throat or hives go to ER immediately . Of course ,I'm not a Dr. and can you afford an allergy specialist i suggest you see one so that you may have a proper diagnosis.

foreverannie 3 years ago

OK, just watched American Idol. Whoah those guys are great. Side Note: my hubby tried out for Idol last year, didn't make it but he's very talented.

Queenie, I actually take very good care of my body, except I could probably eat more veggies. I take vitamins, exercise, and try to watch eating junk. I would consider myself pretty physically fit for someone in early thirties with 2 kids lol.

I've been thinking and something stuck in my head that Fun Times said about abusing your body for so many years then expecting quick change. My physical symptoms are gone, except for lack of motivation which could quite possibly be emotional. I know theres nothing physically wrong with me.

Sub Free, my friend who is a doctor told me that lemon juice is great for flushing out your liver. Helps the toxins go through quicker I guess. Thought that may interest you :)

foreverannie 3 years ago

Plain Insane,

Glad your wife isn't going through anything terrible. Vertigo isn't too bad. My grandma has it and says it comes and goes. She just doesn't drive if she feels a wave. Hopefully you'll start feeling better and get a good nights sleep.

queenie 3 years ago

If you guys want to know about liver flushes then yes lemon juice is great. mix 1 lemon, 1 tbl spoon extra virgin olive oil and water for a flush. Milk thistle ,dandelion and turmeric root are all great for the liver

queenie 3 years ago

Fine go ahead and email Fun Times if you want to. After All, i don't own him.....yet! ooooohkaaaay!

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

Plain Insane: Momma said there would be days like this...lol... hang in there bud, you'll surely feel better tomorrow... I think the consensus is that around the two week mark you go back down a little bit... or a lot, but it shouldn't last long... of course I'm thrilled to hear about your wife.... you've been worried about her which is probably adding to your anxiety... it really sucks you can't take off work when it gets bad like that... I really feel so stupid for complaining about my shit when I read how you're doing... just think, you made it... don't know how or why, but you did & tomorrow certainly WON'T be any worse...Poor thing, I can tell you could hardly type... hang tough ANNIE: Did I finally find an American Idol fan on here??? Adam finally sang Aerosmith & Danny blew it out on that second song huh... Chris is ok, I can't stand that thing he does with his mouth.... ANYWAY.. thank you so much Queenie for all of your advice... my attacks only happen at night & I start this deep cough, it wakes me up, and I can't breathe - very short, shallow breathes... I do have to sit up with a crap load of pillows, and it will finally go away after about an hour or so... and my throat has been feeling really swollen at night.... I've never, ever had allergies, but my mom does really bad, but it's more sinus allergies, not any lung or throat problems... my sister has wheezed like her whole life, but she never done anything about it... and my son has asthma - I know I need to go to a specialist.... even if it might be asthma, should I still see an allergy specialist? I hate my regular doctor... the one that switched me from hydro to methadone to subs... yeah... need a new one, not much to choose from around here so I'm going to try a couple towns over... Seriously though, thank you SO much for y'all's input, I really appreciate it... I feel for ya Queenie, I can't stand those attacks... you have them at work? Or you just tried medicine from work? I've actually had panic attacks before brought on by mixing drugs - X and some sticky icky - LOL - oh man, those are scary... I mean, you really think your heart is going to give out & your going to die... I was telling my husband I loved him and that I was dying - I was saying BYE.... Fun Times: thanks for your post... I've been working all day - Awwww man, my Ambien is kicking in, and I can't see straight, for real... will finish tomorrow damn that sucks....

Fun Times 3 years ago

Everyone is soundin cool. Plaininsane...i dont know know, maybe I need to semi-plgarzize some hard lyrics to remind you..that my man..we are in a fuckin war here.

gangsta: as defo\ined by Fun Times: a hard motherfucker who takes the hard road (DRUG FREE) and is kicking some shit that the normal person would deem unfathomable, and isn't pickin up shit..cause using is for them chumps.

"Damn it feels good to be a gangsta, A real gangsta ass nigga plays his cards right,

A real gangsta ass nigga never runs his fuckin mouth, cause real gangsta ass niggas dont start fights,

Niggas always wanna highcap, tellin all his boys how he shot em, Real gangsta ass niggas dont flex nuts,

Cause real gangsta ass niggas know they got 'em

Real gangsta ass niggers dont talk much, all you here is the Bak from the gun blast,

AND REAL GANSTA ASS NIGGAS NEVER RUN FROM FUCKIN SHIT, CAUSE REAL GANGSTA ASS NIGGAS CANT RUN FAST,

so when the few in the crew are talking shit, usiing shit...go hit the pen and let a motherfucker shank ya,

cause the motherfucker cat Fun Times stays back and stays clean. Damn it feels good to be a gangsta.

Plainsane that was man to man. Fuck it man. Tell yourself something good. I swear I could fingd a hundred things to be upset about:

NA tip...first thing you do whe you wake up (before/after shower): make a list of 5 (five) things you are grateful for today: You are fuckin clean, you have a wonderful spouse and kids you love that will get their patrent back, you are going to learn what it is to be you again, you like and are grateful for a job...whatever...

you all with spouses and kids...fuck...ask me how blessed you are. Im 39, single. not thinking about dating, cause I do not want to fuck up my Recovery...so I am alone (not til I see Queenie anyway, shes in Recovery...we may not post for a week when we get togather...but we'll be doing fine..scouts honor...lmao), and dont all think Id love to come home from work to daddy daddy and a loving wife. Fuck man....you all are complaining. Shit.

Annie...the book to get is the NA Basic Text. Number two is called the 12 steps and traditions of NA, lastly a book called JUST FOR TODAY. guys...these books saved my life. tell me i am fuckin lying or even exaggerating. I was getting WAYYYYYYY out of hand in places that I CANNOT BELIEVE I WENT TO. at 3am. looking for more H or C or anything. in the middle of Jaunaury, negative twenty degrees. and high as a kite and scare as shit. Cant count how manyy times. Knowing I had to be at workik looking sharp at 930, which I was, cause that was my ass if I missed.

Plainsane...just hit that floor and chill my man. Everyone here who has kicked has got better...than worse...then beter. The floor is a comfortable place to lay back and chill, and just kick like a gangsta.

annie and subfree and plainsane...check out those 3 books. for all of us, it is require reading. One day sooner or later you will see how insanely PROFOUND THEY ARE and will be so glad you heard about them and own them. Period. i swear to that on my fathers soul.

Queenie...thanks for the time as always. I was down when I called you (like i said i had to force myself to even call..works was wearing on me...life was wearing on me), but you cheered me up as only do lady. You really bring out the best in me. THANK YOU ANGEL.

Everyone: Stay hard, stay humble. luv Fun Times

Fun Times 3 years ago

i cant forget this:

CONGRATULATIONS SUBFREE! WORKING ALL DAY. THAT A FUCKIN GIRL.

I am very very proud of you lady. Very proud indeed. I know you'e gonna make it. The really sweet ones (right Queenie) always do.

God Bless u subfree, God bless you're entire family!!!!

PS. If you hit enter, a new paragraph starts ;) j/k. Keep doin all you're doin lady. It sure is workin!

Fun Times 3 years ago

i started praying in bed...lazy. i got outta bed and prayed for real...on my knees:

I thank God for giving me the strength to do what I did,

And I pray that God gives me, and you, and everyone battling addiction in its many substances and forms: the strength to do His will, follow our conscience, and stay clean and grateful another day. I pray He gives us all that stength. From my knees.

God Bless you guys.

Funtimes

PlainInsane 3 years ago

Right Back at ya Fun Times 12:38 a.m. P.S.T.

This is straight from my heart!! Tomorrow's a new day and although its a sleepless night your lyrics fire me up to fight thru!!Thanks for the prayers.

I started this kick thinkin I was tough. I started this kick not realizing how rough. Now that i'm in it, I realize it's in me and that's a voice. I set here sick as hell but made my choice. Is it my life or is it the fire that burns inside. If I choose my life then I choose this ride. Pain can be my friend, and if I learn from it then it should someday end. Another sleepless night and the shit runs through my head. Keep on fighting cause its better then being dead. I'm almost at my limit and want to break but I've come so far and there's much more I can take. Thank you everyone for your kind words of strength and healing for my wife and myself. God Bless all!!

queenie 3 years ago

Subfree, You can develop allergies at any age. Coughing at night is symptomatic of asthma. allergies are also hereditary . If the bronchi in your lungs become inflamed you will not necessarily feel it but will feel the symptoms. Also when coming off narcs your body's chemistry changes. Nasal allergies go along with trouble breathing because the mucus forming in your nose is also forming in your bronchi. I'm not saying this is what you have but your symptoms are indicative of allergies/asthma. Are you completely clean or taking anything else? Benzos and opiates can cause respiratory depression. I would see a specialist. I do not have panic attacks at work or anywhere,mine is allergies/asthma. I'm down here in the tropics where stuffs blooming year round. I'm telling you Turmeric root is all i take for it and it works! Have a Great day all!

PlainInsane 3 years ago

Hi Queenie,

it's 4:00 a.m. here and still haven't slept. 2 hours and need to get ready for work. This night is shot. Hope you have a wonderful day.

inRed 3 years ago

Hey everyone! I was on suboxone for about 7-8 months. Started at 8 mg everyday, then started tapering down at about 5 months cuz I wanted to be clean of everything. I slowly made the pieces of the 8mg suboxone smaller and smaller(I'm talking until it is a tinyyy crumb). Just go at your own pace, just take what you need to make it through the day without being miserable. I have been off completely now for 1 month. The worst of the w/d symptoms I'd say take close to 2 weeks to go away. After a month I am still having sensitivity to cold, slight insomnia, uncomfortable sweats and goosebumps. But I am just happy that I can function without any drugs....except pot! but that's an herb and I don't care what anyone says I will never give it up, it's the one thing that really helps you feel better and will never get you physically addicted.

PlainInsane 3 years ago

inRed

You did it the right way. Wish I would've known how bad and long the w/d's were when I decided to stop taking a high dose for 5 years. Lesson being learned the hard way. Too far along to start taking them again.

Fun Times 3 years ago

Listen plaininsane....what fun would a normal kick be? I can promise the universe one thing...everyone hink what they think...i don't care...but this motherfuckin kick had a BITE to it. I'll give credit where credit is due...this fuckin kick was a motherfucker. That said...I aint fuckin around again. This one almost broke me in half.

plaininsane...look at inReds post: "After a month I am still having sensitivity to cold, slight insomnia, uncomfortable sweats and goosebumps. " that dont sound like fun. I undestand NO SLEEP truly sucks as well as anyone. i was up 3 (three) days in a row...before going back to work on day 1. I had been off subs for like 3 weeks. I was terrified. Honestly...now I have the other problem...I have no motivation....I just wanna throw a blanket over myself and SLEEP and have the world kinda leave me the fuck alone.

Where's that 'happy' middle ground? Who knows. I'll stay clean, Recover, and find it. Or else I'll adapt...right Queenie. If it aint ruff it me;) I get over self pity in like a minute..with just a little help from my friends.

Fun Times 3 years ago

i cant get my tag line wrong:

if it aint ruff it aint me, so really cares who you want me to be, see....

thats better

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

Well, today is going to be a rough day & the withdrawals are the least of my worries.... excuse me if I rant, but I just found out my husband is/was/did DOESN'T FUCKING MATTER having an affair. Suck on that one huh. He's still asleep because he was up all night and doesn't even know that I know yet. It's a long story, but I have proof from the bitch that's undeniable - and get this guys... how does this story always go... she's claiming to be pregnant!!!!!!!! Damn am I a fool. I think I'm still in shock. Be back in a little while....

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

Thank you Queenie for taking the time out to talk to me about this... I slipped up for two days a couple of weekends ago, but that was it so I haven't taken anything else... I used the inhaler before I went to sleep the past two nights, and I didn't have the breathing attacks so I think it's working... I think it's asthma, and I'm going to quit smoking soon... and I'm going to find a doc to go to... and Fun Times, I do hit ENTER, I'm not a total dumbass, but when I post it all goes back together I dunno - Plain Insane: I loved your poem, rhyme... you HAVE to take that attitude during this shit or you WON'T make it... hubbie's still asleep.... hmmmm... trying to think how I should play this guys.... been on the phone all morning with friends, trying to figure it out.... Back to more important things: I really hope today is better for you Plain Insane... try not to work too hard... take a breather when needed... all the new posts really helped boost my mood so thanks guys... y'all are a trip...

Fun Times 3 years ago

subfree...motherfucker. i mean i say motherfucker a lot...but this time I TRULY mean MOTHERFUCKER!!!!!!!!

Fun Times theory...if its true...mind you...i dont know and your head is spinnin...but 'undeniable' sounds pretty fuckin 'undeniable'....goddamnit! i dont even know what the fuck to say. son of a fuckin bitch. wayyyy to go asshole (husband). Fuck you!

i can only say that you are such a sweet girl....you deserve better. i can only say that you are such a sweet girl....you deserve better. i can only say that you are such a sweet girl....you deserve better. i can only say that you are such a sweet girl....you deserve better. i can only say that you are such a sweet girl....you deserve better. i can only say that you are such a sweet girl....you deserve better. i can only say that you are such a sweet girl....you deserve better. i can only say that you are such a sweet girl....you deserve better.

and i know, u have children. mothefucker. what an asshole. fuck him. stay strong lady. dont let him drag you down. whenever i felt like someone wasn't it to me...and i had relationships that lasted years...they all knew where the door was. i mean i'm nicer than nice to someone i love...but if you aint into me...i'll show u to the door. my fuckin pleasure. yeah...and please dont let it hit you in the ass on the way out.

Fun Times 3 years ago

c'mon subfree... i was kidding about the 'enter' button...i'm on ur side lady

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

I'm sorry dude, didn't mean to be snappy about that - forgive me... well, she knew his email password which he obviously recently changed because I've always known it - and jackpot... didn't cover his tracks..... so what is there left to say... just going to ask him what he wants... I love this man... I have lived and breathed this man for over 7 years... and will stick by this man... can not live without this man, know what I'm saying... just going to see what he has to say... and then we'll go from there... Thanks Fun Times for your support....

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

You know what really gets me... is that he use to work with this bitch, and we saw her in WalMart a couple of weeks ago, and she was like, " Oh, blank (his name), we reeeaaaaallllllly miss you up there, you need to come back" If I knew then, I would have went to jail that day.... still might. I don't know about the pregnancy... I honestly don't think he's that fucking stupid... he's still fucking sleeping - I oughta go poor cold water on his ass... lol

queenie 3 years ago

wow! Men are always down for "some strange". What a cock sucker! I would punch him in the balls. I know its so hard when you have so much much invested in someone you love. This is when I'd say " i see your acting crazy.....I'll show you crazy mother f**ker!"lol . Oh well just remember...all is fair in love and war....or is it? Also remember that life shows up in recovery. its not easy but we are here for you.

Fun Times= I hope you got my texts.ttyl

Fun Times 3 years ago

Queenie...i got ur texts. YOU ARE THE FAIREST OF THEM ALL. thank you sexy. ur kinda really sweet too. Thank you. I love getting your kind words during work. I wait for those fuckers!!!! lol!

Ok...now I copy a Queenie quote, cause I'm with it: "This is when I'd say " i see your acting crazy.....I'll show you crazy mother f**ker!"

fuck it...and i mean FUCK IT! i dont want to tell u to screw his best friend or his brother (those are petty vindicate options ...that only someone sick like me would consider....but of course...with a female)...subfree...i talked to a very nice woman at work who is married to a firefighter for 18 years, loves him to death, has 2 great kids with him and asked her what would she do:

"I'd divorce him".

She said she could never look at him the same again. This happened to me before...I wasn't married...no kids involved...but I kinda really lliked/loved this girl. After she cheated on me-THINGS GOT AND STAYED FUCKED UP. PERIOD. I NEVER TRUSTED HER AGAIN.

THIS DUDE HAS PROVEN HOW MUCH HE LOVES YOU...NOT THAT MUCH. I DON'T WANNA HEAR THIS IS "MEN'S SHIT". I NEVER CHEATED, RESPECTFULLY. I WOULD NEVER HURT SOMEONE I LOVE. NOT A FUCKING CHANCE. I NEVER CAME CLOSE TO CHEATING...AND I KINDA COULD HAVE...WITHOUT TOO MUCH PROBLEM. NEVER CROSSED MY MIND. FUCK. SORRY...A CHEATER IS A CHEATER. THEY DONT GET CURED BY GETTING CAUGHT.

THINGS WILL NEVER BE THE SAME WITH HIM. LET 'EM GO.

PlainInsane 3 years ago

Subfree,

i will respond to this issue tonight, I'm at work now and can't. i've had experience with this and have alot to say. I'll talk to you tonight. Please hang in there and don't bow your cool just yet. I feel for you. I MEAN I FEEL FOR YOU AND HAVE A GOOD IDEA OF WHAT YOUR GOING THRU. I'M SO SORRY FOR THIS. PLEASE HANG ON TO GOD!!!

Fun Times 3 years ago

Hey Subfree....its your buddy Funtimes. I was talking with Queenie (what a great friend this lady is to me...and God put her in my life when I NEEDED a really great friend) about this situation you're in, and I'll just speak for myself. I feel you deserve better. This just seems so thoughtless and cruel...from someone who is supposed to love you. Willing to hurt you to get laid by a piece of shit.

I'm sorry,,thats just how I feel. Please let me know how you are doing. Maybe this site is so important to me b/c not only did you guys say very kind things to me...but I met a woman who is honestly the most special woman in my life on this site. And now I have an incredible friend from this site. So I care about this site, and the people on it quite a bit.

Subfree...how are you sweetheart? I really wanna know.

Plaininsane...how are you man? This is where u can share, and get encouragement. Remember that.

Annie...how are you?

Queenie...Thank you for everything.

PlainInsane 3 years ago

Subfree,

I've been married 22 years in July. I've never came close to cheating. I made a vow at marriage and could not WOULD NOT break it. That being said. I was very in Love with a woman and after several years of being together i found out she cheated on me. That devistated me for many many years. She was truly sorry but the trust was broken. I didn't want to be without her but once your trust is broken things will never be the same. You will always question him, you will worry everytime he's gone. Your mind will drive you insane and I don't believe this hurt will ever completely heal. The choice is yours and you alone have to make it but trust me you'll never forget this and it will haunt you. I do not think you should seek revenge because then your sinking down to his level. You can certainly forgive him but I don't think you'll ever forget the hurt and pain he's caused you. I would have nightmares for years that my girl was cheating on me. Trust is the key to a successful relationship and without that you cannot rebuild what has been damaged. You must rely on God to get you thru this. You have to take some time and sort this all out before making your decision. Don't base it on the thought that you cannot live without him because you can. What you need to decide is if you believe you will ever be able to really trust this man again. With children it even makes it worse but this is a decision you have to make. I hurt for you terribly and wish there was something to say to make you feel better. Please do not let this affect your sobriety because that will only intensify the terrible hell you're going thru. If you choose to stay and make it work he damned well be ready to get into counseling and to stay in it however long it takes for you to gain your trust back. How dare someone do that to someone they claim to love. There is no justifying his actions no matter what the circumstances. I'll be praying for you heavily and am willing to talk with you anytime you need. I'm so sorry this happened to a sweet loving honest person like you. Please be strong and don't make any rash decisions. I despise people who cheat on their spouses and I'm a very forgiving person but this is one thing that even i don't know if i could forgive and I know that's wrong. Be strong and be smart even though that sounds nearly impossible at this point. Take time and think this out. You did not deserve this and don't ever let anyone try to twist it and make you think that somehow you brought this on. I believe only God can help you learn to forgive someone for something terrible like this. Please hang in there.

PlainInsane 3 years ago

Funtimes,

I'm going on about 38 hrs with no sleep. I made it thru the day of work and actually felt a little better till i read subfree's post. That has dredged up past memories and I truly hurt for her. She's in a terribly tough situation. I feel like i'm tired but now my mind is worrying about subfree. She doesn't deserve this. My prayers go out to her with the deepest of sympathy. Let's help her anyway we possibly can. Thanks for keeping in touch and i'm still kickin but not giving in. I'm so glad you and Queenie get to spend a lot of time talking, I can tell she makes you feel really good when your down. keep it up Queenie. Let's all keep praying for subfree and please keep us informed of how your holding up. We truly care about you!!! God Bless everyone.

Fun Times 3 years ago

Plaininsane....fuck it. After that post...I'm happy to have you as my alter ego. I could not possibly agree with you more...or have said it any better. That's what this thing here is about. You showed how much you care for this lady. I care for her too.

Subfree...when you can...please let plainsane and me know how you are feeling. It's important for us to know how a sweet girl like you...how YOU, young lady are doing. WE CARE FOR YOU.

Please do us that favor...when you can. As soon as you can...when you are ready. I can picture you crying and itI isn't fucking cool at all. YOU KNOW IF YOU NEED HELP....PLAINSANE DOESNT SLEEP AND I BARELY DO. I know we'll both pray for you tonite.

That really was great plaininsane. It was awesome advice, experience, and it came directly from your heart. My man.

queenie 3 years ago

I'm so glad for this site and Believe it or not...I've never met people on line before this. Isn't it strange how we all were just researching about subs and got stuck here? I been on here 3 months. Anyway, its cool. What happened to Merchant? May God bless you and keep you all. nite nite dont let the bed bugs bite...unless they're hot!

Fun Times 3 years ago

Glad everyone's doin great. Plaininsane, I'll call you when I get a chance. I took care of that thing. we'll emai/talk later. You're gonna be fine. Queenie...you know...I talk to you, I talk to plaininsane, I talk to you a lot (Thank God)...other people come and go. I certainly thank the site for you more than anything, and plaininsane, I'm glad we met.

Subfree..i hope u r well. What else can I say?

PlainInsane 3 years ago

Fun Times,

Thanks for the email and the offer. Your a great man!!

Subfree,

How are you doing sweetie? I truly hope your hanging in there and being strong like you are. I'm praying for you. Please when you have a chance let us know how you are. You are on my mind and have my sympathy. Please be strong!!! You have so many who love you. You have to stay strong for your children. They need their mommy. Please focus on them and the bond you have with them. Stay strong for them. I'm so sorry this had to happen to you. don't let anyone take from you what you've worked so very hard to accomplish. I wish I could absorb some of your pain for you. I'd gladly take it if would help you. Remember your loved by us and we're here for you. Lean on God for strength. He loves you whether or not you beleive that or not. God bless you woman and please let us know how you are doing when you feel you can talk.

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

I AM SO SORRY!!! I left right after I posted last, and I just now came home. I took his wallet and left...lol... hit him where it hurts. Where it hurts him anyway. I went and stayed with my friend a couple hours away. OMG - I feel so horrible, I didn't mean to bring up bad memories for you Plain Insane!!!! Oh gosh, when I read that, I about died. I really won't talk about it if it bothers you AT ALL - just let me know..... I can't get over how caring everyone is on here even though we've only known each other a short period of time & we've never met.... Thank ALL of you for all your kind words, advice, support... It means SOOOOOO much to me... How is everyone else doing? Well, I'm not going to talk about what's going on & what happened unless Plain Insane is going to be ok with it, and DON'T tell me it's cool if it's not... seriously... you sounded REALLY upset, and it made me feel so horrible - I don't want to drudge up memories and make you keep thinking about it over and over so it's cool if we just leave it alone.... talk to y'all soon....

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

Why has everyone disappeared????????

PlainInsane 3 years ago

Subfree,

Great to here from you. I'm glad you left for a couple days to sort things out. You certainly can talk about this if you want to, thats how you start healing. I'm past my issue, yes I was hurting but was hurting for you. I have a great wife and family now and my issue has long past. I just know the kind of pain this puts a person thru. I just want to know your hanging in there and making it thru this difficult situation. Like I said and Fun Times also we're here for you and talking about this doesn't bother me as long as your o.k. with it. Thanks for checking in and God Bless you woman!!!

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

Hey Fun Times I just sent you some random pics of my kids & stuff so you could see us.....lemme know you got em.

Fun Times 3 years ago

Awwwwwww....those were really cool pics. Your children are adorable, really. The pics of them at Christmas are like a Sears Catalog ad. Thank you. That was sweet of you, as always.

How are you doing lady? This is something pretty big (to put it mildly) that happened to you. Nobody was talking b/c we all wanted to hear from you....no kidding. It's kinda hard talking about..."I got the chills" when someone (YOU) might be going through about the worst thing I can imagine..aside from issues with your children and/or health.

The hardest thing I ever went through aside from drugs and kicking them was being the unknowing "cheatee" with a girl I kinda loved. Fuck. My heart was pumping through my fucking chest when I got the "Dear Steve I love you baby" letter from a notebook she left at my house while we were studying for final exams. You see...my name aint Steve. lol now...cry (not sloppy soobbing...but genuine tears) back then. That was a real mindfuck. Honestly..I can and do tust women again...but she just about single handedly made me think..fuck it...I can't trust anyone I'm with...b/c I AINT GONNA GET HURT LIKE THAT AGAIN. I didn't trust her gain...but found out that sweet honest women do exist.

So give it up Subfree...HONESTLY...how are you feeling lady?

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

Thanks Fun Times - I love my sweet angels. And you know what I've been thinking about more than anything? My little boy... and my hubbie's little boy... if we were to split, my boy has no one but me. As I mentioned before, his biological father died in a car wreck a couple of years ago... not that he really knew him anyway, and I felt my son was too young to go to the funeral so he doesn't even know yet... he thinks my husband is his dad, which he is. And also if we split, my step-son's biological mother would definitely take my husband back to court for custody, and you just don't understand what kind of life he would have if he lived with her, so far away, and she's a TERRIBLE mother. It would just rip my family apart.... my daughter is so attached to my mother & father in law... damn I just couldn't do it. No way. I reread y'all's posts about all this. I think your advice and views are dead on Plain Insane. And I wish I would have read them before I took off..... because I kinda sorta screwed up. I went and picked up a mutual guy friend of ours.... we rode around, talked, I cried... and we both went to my friend's house & he stayed there with me the whole time. If y'all can understand something... in the several years me and hubbie have been together, we've spent like 2 nights apart & that's it. And that's because I went out of town to visit a friend, and he couldn't go because he had to work. So when I finally talked to hubbie on the phone that day, he was freaking out. I've never just left like that, he didn't know what the hell was going on. He didn't try to deny it... he said it happened twice. We talked for like 4 hours on the phone about everything. He was crying, I was crying... he begged me to come home... we didn't yell, I didn't cuss him out.... he still won't tell me why it happened... claims he doesn't know which is bullshit so we've got to work on that. Point is, he knows me... and he knows (I've told him) that I'd rather him cheat on me than lie to me (they kind of go hand in hand, but you know what I mean).... I can't fucking STAND it... if you want a threesome, tell me... if you want another woman, tell me... if something does happen, tell me immediately!!! He's always known that he can tell me ANYTHING... we can work through ANYTHING... but lying to me over and over again for months? Naw man, I don't get down like that. So after we got off the phone, I followed Fun Times' advice, and I laid on the floor for a couple of hours. I was in bad withdrawals - my legs were killing me, and I was emotionally wrecked. I wish my friend had a damn computer because I really would have loved to have read y'all's posts. So my guy friend comforted me, and the little fucker kissed me. That really fucked me up because then I felt guilty as hell, but I didn't really kiss him back & I told him to chill & he did & it was all good after that. I just can't believe guys, what the hell is wrong with them man. ANYWAY - DAMN am I getting the royal treatment around here - lol... he's doing everything for me, apologizing constantly for every little thing, and being extremely loving & I'm like get the fuck off me. I guess I finally hit the mad stage. Although I really still think I might be in shock. Still. I need real answers, and I won't be ok until I get those so we'll see. It's like, I haven't really wrapped my mind around it yet I don't think. I usually obsess about things, but I haven't let myself do that with this yet. I'm kind of numb. I dunno. I can't stress how much I appreciate y'all taking the time out to help me deal with this and caring so much. I don't know what to say.... y'all took more time out for me than my friends did. I haven't told my Mom or anyone else yet. Plain Insane - I hope your wife realizes what a wonderful husband she has. Treasure each other. How are you doing by the way Plain Insane? Did you finally get some sleep? Are your withdrawals better? Fun Times... you're great. And I'm really, really happy for you that you met Queenie on here, and all joking aside... I really hope y'all do get together & hit it off... you are both truly inspiring, kind, loving people who deserve some happiness. You're missing out Fun Times - you need to have a child... Queenie, help him out... you need one too. THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU ALL... Love, Subfree

Fun Times 3 years ago

wow. That was actually not sounding so bad. You've read the emails, you would have mentioned if there were some torrid affair going on.

As far as the "i'm not down with lying goes"...I gotta say subfree...he might not have an answer....honestly. I mean guys like to get laid. So do women. It might be as simple as he really loves you, and he was thinking with his dick...and the consequences of how wrong he was never really occurred to him. I really doubt he was thinking "if she finds out...fuck her...who cares". Fuck...he was a drug addict (as was I...my drug of choice just made me wanna sleep...not get laid), he had poor judgment (like me), and I hurt people I loved by acting selfishly and impulsively while being in a complete state of denial and apathy about what i was doing. And I did it for two decades...not two (or however many) nights.

It doesn't sound as bad as I thought. He seems (based purely on what you are saying) truly remorseful. You know I always have crazy ideas...here's my latest: Have him call this slut up (if you have two phones and you can hear what is said)...and tell him exactly what to say so you hear what you want to know (ie. how long this was going on...did he talk shit about you...whatever you wanna know), and if she doesn't have much to say except for "I hate subfree and even though we were togather only twice)...maybe this works out. If she says..."it was great when she was gone the last couple days...thank God we've been fucking for months" thats a different story.

Mind you...I'm not known for good judgment...but in your shoes, with all you've said...thats what i would do.

In any event...thanks for letting us know how you are doing. If he just honestly got laid recklessly twice and is a great guy and great dad...maybe keep him and just make him atone...however you see fit.

PS. Whats with the threesome? Southerners are wild. lol.

PSS. Thanks for trying to talk to help me with Queenie. I'm not exactly that bad looking (she hates when I say that)...and we'd make a great couple....but we live far apart, and there is this career thing, but we're gonna meet in early July. I'm trying hard with her. I like her a lot...I can do my best to give this a shot...and I am. Thanks for your kind thoughts subfree.

Sincerely,

Fun Times

queenie 3 years ago

Fun Times - How u sound? You said you cant cry.

Subfree- Im glad your not killing yourself over this clown! Stay strong

Fun Times 3 years ago

hey....i said i can't cry now...and i really cant. or should i say...i dont. anythings possible. that was like over 15 years ago queenie. check this lady out. and for what its worth...i did say i wasnt sobbing...tears did come down out of my eyes...and she wants to put a guy down for that. thats ruff.

fuck man...cant a kid have a tear or two come down his face when his heart is crushed for the first time. phewwww. how u soiund?

man...this ladies like crazy obsessive jealous about somethin that happened over 15 years ago. i guess i'm flattered...i'll be big about that reamrk ;)

PlainInsane 3 years ago

Subfree,

Slept 6 hrs last night. Guess that was just the body saying its time for a little sleep. Felt good this morning. Started going downhill in the afternoon. It's 1:39 a.m. now and can't sleep. Supposed to go with the family tomorrow to Sacramento to see my brother in law race. Going to spend the night there tomorrow night. Temp is supposed to be 106 degrees tomorrow. Don't know if i'm going to make it. Really thought I was going to sleep tonight. Tomorrow is 3 weeks without any subs and I'm not getting any better. This is a nightmare that just doesn't end. I took a sleeping pill tonight cause I new I needed the sleep to make it tomorrow. Here I set pissed as hell. I'm so tired and worn out. I do things at work that people tell me I did and don't even remember them, that can't be good. The other day i nearly crashed coming back from a meeting cause I was dozing at the wheel. I'm speechless!!!

PlainInsane 3 years ago

Well, It's Sat 7:53 a.m. Did not sleep again. Getting ready to leave for Sac. I just hope I can make it a day out in the blazing sun.

Fun times,

Didn't get your mail Friday, hopefully it'll be in Mon. Everyone have a wonderful weekend. It's great your going to see Queenie in July. Hope you and her have a wonderful time together. Should be an incredible time:) Taking my laptop with me so will check in tonight if I can get a Internet connection.

Subfree,

Hang in there honey and be strong, I'll continue praying for all. Tell hubby he should be on his knees thanking God for you and your ability to overcome this and give him another chance. He does not know how extremely lucky he is to have someone like you which he really doesn't deserve. He'd better get his shit together and now!!! I admire your determination and willpower, keep it up. Talk soon.

Fun Times 3 years ago

Man...I dropped it in the fuckin fed ex. If your work is open today..if anyone is THERE...I promise you that fed ex is threre waiting. Just in case you can swing by. I put direct signature requested...so if anyone's there...so is the fed ex. MOTHERFUCKERS. It was sent 730pm Thursday...in a 745 drop box.

PlainInsane 3 years ago

Fun Times,

No worries bro. It'll be there Monday morning. No one is in today and we're just leaving. I'll be fine till Monday. Thanks again your a very special guy (God sent). Thanks again for caring so much. Hopefully someday we'll get to meet. Nearly everytime I go back to home (my real home) MI. I have a layover in Chicago. Take Care.

Fun Times 3 years ago

I just turned on GI Jane. This fucker (I just get out swearing here...ok,,,,thats probably a lie...but unless in CAPS...its very soft polite swearing....kinda like a loving whisper;) ) was talking about Pain:

prarphrase, as usual:

PAIN IS YOUR FRIEND. PAIN IS A SERIOUS MOTIVATOR. PAIN LETS YOU KNOW WHEN YOU ARE HURT. PAIN MAKES YOU ANGRY. PAIN LETS YOU KNOW YOU ARE ALIVE. AND PAIN GIVES YOU THE EXTRA ENERGY IT TAKES TO ACCOMPLISH YOUR MISSION AND GET BACK HOME.

I think thats a productive way to think about pain.

for the comptitie types; Pain is a great challenge. and for everyone,

Pain is an indication that you are clean.

I salute you troopers.

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

Plain Insane: You're not thinking of giving in are you? I think I pretty much have. I hope today went ok for you.... 106 degrees, damn, and I thought it was hot here. I hope today wasn't too unbearable for you. You should be getting a good day soon, you know... seems like it came back for some revenge or something because you were feeling decent a few days back. That sucks more than anything about this kick - it's so unpredictable, so up and down - I always felt worse at night for like the first month then I started feeling worse in the mornings - it's weird. It's been almost 2 months for me, and I hit another slump, and I just can't deal with this shit anymore. It's not just lack of motivation or energy either... it's full on pain and no sleep and all that shit, and it doesn't make any sense to me why I would still be suffering so badly after this long... I'll be fine for 2 days then hell will hit for 3... just sucks ass, and I have a life to live & kids to take care of - my in laws are tired, and I don't blame them. BUT ANYWAY - Who said anything about FORGIVING HIM? HA... y'all know it's a hell of a lot more complicated then the facts I put out there. Plain Insane, did you split with that woman because you could never trust her again because I'm assuming from what you said, you weren't talking about your current wife. I didn't tell my husband I read the emails. I was waiting to see if he would fess up because I questioned him throughly & gave him every opprotunity, and he didn't. It was killing me, but I kept my mouth shut. So I checked his email yesterday and he hadn't done anything to it, but when I checked today - the little bastard had actually changed his password back to the old one, and the emails were gone. So I confronted him on it, and he actually got mad at me. So Fun Times, not that bad huh? LOL... I didn't expect him to tell me to go to hell or anything... I figured he would be sorry... he acted exactly as I suspected... and I don't believe it was only twice. The emails were proof of an emotional affair more than anything, with a hint of sexual activity. But does it really matter if it was once, twice, 30 freaking times... I have a feeling if it was only twice that it was because of availability.... not enough opportunities... so whatever. We'll work through it, but I'm going to be moving into our house for a little while - while I'm working on it. I really just have the attitude of fuck it, I don't freaking care right now... too much drama. Despite all this, I love him & we'll be fine as long as (if she is pregnant) it's not his baby. That's the only reason I found out - she left a message on his cell about being pregnant, and by some miracle the phone had a signal out here (you usually have to go outside) & it beeped... and I checked it & I called her back. He claims early December was when it happened so the three months she's claiming to be doesn't make sense. I dunno... we'll see. Might try the phone thing, Fun Times... I thought about it. Also - I thought a threesome was every guy's dream... ??? You're calling Southerners wild? Isn't Queenie a Southerner? I just used that as an example - I mean, we've talked about it before... I wouldn't go down on a girl or anything, dang. LOL... anyway, let me clean my talk up. Fun Times: I'm really excited for you - I understand about the careers & all, but y'all can work that out later if something's really there. It seems like to me that she really makes you a better person & I think it's so cool y'all met on here & hit it off - I really, really am pulling for y'all.... it's so sweet. Toot - a - loo

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

Oh and Plain Insane - BE CAREFUL... you almost crashed? You should start sleeping better pretty quickly... 3 weeks huh... man... hope you sleep well tonight - I find those sleeping pills make me emotional the next day like depressed or something. They're really only to put you to sleep, not keep you asleep... well, the CR is, but nothing really helps at this stage anyway.... Good luck

queenie 3 years ago

Fun Times check your email

queenie 3 years ago

subfree, I just read your long post and i find it so interesting that you are so casual about this whole thing. I would be beside myself with fury and devastation. It is possible however, that you are processing as we all do with the 5 stages of grief. One of the stages is "denial" and another is "bargaining". I'm sure there's something bout it on the Internet (5 stages of grief ). I mean im glad your moving forward, its just I'd be so hurt and i wonder if your not just covering your feelings.

And yes-yes y'all, Queenie is a southerner. Represent'n for the dirty south! I like 3somes....hell, i like 5somes...lol lmao....just kidding! I can be so inappropriate. Gosh Queenie whats wrong with you!

Fun Times 3 years ago

Excuse me Queenie..u gonna text a kid back? That was really a beautiful picture you sent. You are Truly beautiful. You have a gorgeous face. Small noce, high cheeckbones, gorgeous smile..very symmetrical ;) Great hair too. Really...you did not need to send it completely naked like that...but I do get a strange sensation when I see look at it. THANK YOU. I would make that my screensaver...but I cant crop out that friend of yours.....I dont know how. lol

Queenie 3 years ago

I did not send him a naked pic and my nose is not small. Its not a beak but its a bit ethnic. Its one of my many flaws that make me who i am (and besides I've never had any complaints.)

Fun times- My phone was still not working this morning and i hope its dried out by tonight cause its Sunday and when i leave work the At&T store will be closed. I would love to text you back but i cant

I'm glad you like the pic and thank you for the kind words . I'm just wondering if you are seeing me or my friend....?

Fun Times 3 years ago

okay...you do have a small nose...thats true. Honstly. Absolutely NOT A FLAW. I mean of course you have flaws...but that just doesnt happen to be one of them. Very very pretty woman. You can tell everyone you werent naked...I'll play along.

You sent me like 5 pics alreday. Dont insult me...its you. women.

Plainsane...how are you man? Lemme know.

Subfree..I was really tryingto be supportive. Its really best I keep my mouth shut (for once...i know...hahahaha) about the cheating thing. I have no clue what is going on with the situation.

But as far a "giving in"...listen woman...take a fuckin milligram if u need it. Fuck it...take 2mg. NO FUCKING MORE THAN THAT AND NO FUCKING DRUGS. Ooooohhhhhkay!!!!! I'm gonna be pissed if you get back on that hillbilly heroin bullshit, or take more than 1 or 2 mgs.

So dont fuckin do it. Thats an order. Im watchin you lady.

queenie 3 years ago

its my little sister.

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

I really hate how shit gets twisted around on here - I didn't mean anything bad towards you Fun Times I swear. I guess it came off that way, I dunno. I know you were trying to be supportive and you were. Just bear with me through this if I'm a little bitchy. I don't mean to be, especially towards any of y'all. We don't have to talk about it anymore, it's cool. I just wanted to say thank you Queenie for the info - yeah, I think I'm in denial - I'll do anything not to think about it right now - don't wanna deal with it right now honestly because I'm trying to stay clean - this whole ordeal of quitting opiates has just wore me to the core & I didn't come this far to fuck up now - the problem will still be there when I feel like dealing with it, really. I know, it's really weird walking around here like nothing happened, just going about our business, but that's what we're doing. I don't want to talk about it, and he sure as hell doesn't want to bring it up so here we are. Anyway so we don't have to talk about it anymore on here because I don't want to piss anyone else off... I'm not going to take any subs - that's not even an option for me - that's not what I'm craving. I'll be fine, I can deal - I'm just depressed, and I let it out here so you can just ignore it if you want to. If it annoys you or bothers anyone, I'll stop. We can keep it all about being clean instead of my struggle to stay clean. That's cool. Really. I was worried about talking about it anyway... Plain Insane: Hope you're ok & still on track....

Fun Tiimes 3 years ago

Say what you want subfee. Lord knows i do. If you cant open up here where can you. PS. I only mentioned yusing the 1mg b/c I thought you said you were givong up. I apologize.

Stay clean and stay strong subfree.

So Queenie...well...is she single and/or willing? lol.

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

Ok well y'all take care...

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

That's what I mean - you thought you needed to apologize so that means I sounded rude again to you, and I really, really didn't mean it like that so I'm just going to chill for a while because I'm obviously offending you & that's not my intention. That's the last thing I want to do to someone who has really helped me through this horrible time in my life. I can't thank everyone enough. I really wish everyone the best of luck - from the bottom of my heart!!!!

Fun Times 3 years ago

Subfree...please...just be cool. Listen...I'm like the fucking rudest guy online...lol. Really woman....you are so sweet. YOU ARE NOT AND HAVE NOT OFFENDED ME EVER1 arrright. i want u well woman. please...you are like to nice for you own good. quit being so nice, really. kick that cheater in the nuts while he is sleepin ;)

PlainInsane 3 years ago

Subfree,

Got back late last night. I'm o.k. It hit 105 where I was and that was brutal. Yeah, I split with that women. It took alot of years to get over that but i'm fine now. Slept good last night with a lunesta. Felt o.k. this a.m. but am starting to feel a little worse as the day progresses. Hope your hanging in there.

Fun Times,

I'll call you tonight. Thanks.

Fun Times 3 years ago

Heys guys. You know I read other suboxone sites..and this was for awhile, and to an extent still is, different. WE HAVE A FEW PEOPLE, WHO KNOW WHO THEY ARE, THAT POST ABOUT EVERY DAY (PLEASE...ITS FUCKIN FREE...JUST SAY HI) TO HELP KEEP THIS SITE GOING AND TOGATHER.

THE FUN DONT END WHEN YOU HIT ZERO, OR WHILE YOU ARE TAPERING, AND IF YOU BAIL...ANYONE...THIS SITE FALLS APART. i try and post one or more times a day...I NEED SUPPORT....YES...AFTER 4 MONTHS I AM NOT 'NORMAL'...I USED OPIATES FOR 17 YEARS...OKAY. And this is truly the fucking most unpredictable kick i could fathom. and i like to try and be helpful.

Anyone can speak about anything on their mind...its encouraged by all of us I'm sure. See, a lot of people in my life cant understand that you can go over 4 months without a drug and still have hard times. Fuck...I can't understand it. I feel better...but I KNOW I AM NOT COMPLETELY OVER THIS SHIT. I know..I live it.

That said: Thank you to everyone who POSTS, newcomers...you are all welcome, we stay close around here...I have photos from plaininsane w/his family, subfee w/hers, queenie..completely naked, and its a cool feeling. Im really pulling for you all, and I know you are pulling for me.

Thanks for sticking around, and please..stick around.

Fun Times 3 years ago

Heys guys. You know I read other suboxone sites..and this was for awhile, and to an extent still is, different. WE HAVE A FEW PEOPLE, WHO KNOW WHO THEY ARE, THAT POST ABOUT EVERY DAY (PLEASE...ITS FUCKIN FREE...JUST SAY HI) TO HELP KEEP THIS SITE GOING AND TOGATHER.

THE FUN DONT END WHEN YOU HIT ZERO, OR WHILE YOU ARE TAPERING, AND IF YOU BAIL...ANYONE...THIS SITE FALLS APART. i try and post one or more times a day...I NEED SUPPORT....YES...AFTER 4 MONTHS I AM NOT 'NORMAL'...I USED OPIATES FOR 17 YEARS...OKAY. And this is truly the fucking most unpredictable kick i could fathom. and i like to try and be helpful.

Anyone can speak about anything on their mind...its encouraged by all of us I'm sure. See, a lot of people in my life cant understand that you can go over 4 months without a drug and still have hard times. Fuck...I can't understand it. I feel better...but I KNOW I AM NOT COMPLETELY OVER THIS SHIT. I know..I live it.

That said: Thank you to everyone who POSTS, newcomers...you are all welcome, we stay close around here...I have photos from plaininsane w/his family, subfee w/hers, queenie..completely naked, and its a cool feeling. Im really pulling for you all, and I know you are pulling for me.

Thanks for sticking around, and please..stick around.

subfreechick 3 years ago

" Ay, Let me kick it to you right quick, man, That on some gangsta shit man, on some real shit, Anybody done been through the same thing, I'm sure you feel the same way - I've been travelin' on this road too long (too long) Just tryin to find my way back home (back home) But the old me's dead and gone, Dead and Gone... Ooooh, I've been travelin on this road too long, too long Just trying to find my way back home, back home But the old me's dead and gone, Dead and Gone........ No more stress, now I'm straight, now I get it, now I take time to think, before I make mistakes just for my family's sake, That part of me left yesterday, The heart of me is strong today, No regrets I'm blessed to say, The old me's dead and gone away..... I turn my head to the East, I don't see nobody by my side, I turn my head to the West, Still nobody in sight, So I turn my head to the North, Swallow that pill that they call pride, That old me is dead and gone, But the new me will be alright" Man I really like that song. Well, it's official - the water will be turned on by the end of this week in my house & I'll be moving in - alone - for now. I'm heartbroken and scared. Fun Times: I'm cool.... you just seemed upset with me or something, I dunno. You never really talk about how you're doing, you should do that more, especially when you're having a rough day. I know this might sound screwed up, but it helps me to know that you're not normal yet. I mean, of course I wish you were, but since you're not I feel like I'm on a normal path instead of feeling like I'll never be right again. I really get to thinking what if my brain is damaged & it's irreversable? I know, I'm trippen... but I'm cool. Got a one hour counseling session tomorrow with hubbie. Yippee! Really looking forward to that... NOT. Oh I wanted to ask, did/is anyone else having skin issues since they stopped subs? My skin has been really dried out or something & it's usually opposite that. My legs look ashy!!!??? They're slightly better now, but for the first month or so my hands looked like I was 40 or something - it's weird.

Fun Times 3 years ago

Who sings that song...it's cool as hell. I love reading all your posts and I love a good song. Listen subfree...honestly...I know how you are, you are extremely sweet, and you're gonna upset me...b/c I know u care for me. And I care for you, and plaininsane, and queenie of course. Let it be a broken record...but damn that lady makes my nights cool when we talk. She is so fucking funny and soooo cool. And like i said...we got four muskateers here...I can't afford to lose any of you guys.

subfree...it's been a weird often ruff trip. Queenie...you sound really suprised at times to hear that life can still be a bitch for me. You make my life much much much better. Understand lady...you have 4 years clean...minus 6 weeks. I have 4 months clean off a 17 year opiate run. Constant H. Constant Methadone. Constant Suboxone. For 17 years. I wish I could tell everyone...well its been 120 days and thank God its over. it aint. and OF COURSE I KICKED LIKE THE SUPREME IDIOT. 8mgs to fuckin ZERO. Wayyyy to go fuckin Genius.

Day 103 SUCKED...i fuckin remember it. 2 weeks ago i was gonna go to a meeting...but my body crashed. I GAVE MY RECOVERING FRIEND MY CAR KEYS AND SAID 'HERE MAN, GO...I AM FUCKIN OUT OF IT'. I stayed up watching tv the night before until like 330am and woke up at 7. and this last week has been excellent. its getting warmer in Chicago, i was hanging by the lake today with my buddy (and still talked to queenie on the phone, by the lake, for at least half an hour...while he just chilled), drank a frapuccino so good it honestly got me high...and it was a gorgeous nite and i thank God.

Yesterday we found a great new hot dog joint (Chicago has real good authentic hot dog joints that have everything...but they're getting scarce b/c of fuckin McDonalds and shit...but a killer joint just opened RIGHT BY MY HOUSE THANK GOD!!!), we grabbed a couple Pints of Guiness, watched a kickass movie (V for Vendetta...not as good as the graphic novel...but still kickass), listened to some Led Zeppelin (I dont own a home, have had a nicer car...but u cant buy a better stereo than i own....i lucked out: A Jolida TUBE CD player...w/1963 tubes running straight into a Musical Fidelity Power Amp thru B&W speakers and a Klipsch sub....that is living music...unreal...truly), and had a wonderful drug free nite.

Things are getting better. I walked 15 miles total in the last 3 days...nice walking weather. Very healthy. Very serene. and I learned not to stay up too late on work nites...so I'm gonna take a hot shower, drink a cup of tea, chill to a little TV...sleep well...and I actually am starting to enjoy mornings.

The kick is in a very good stage right now, FUCK IT FEELS GOOD TO BE OFF DRUGS! Thank you guys. I aint goin anywhere...you guys help me more than you know.

queenie 3 years ago

Justin Timberlake and Ti sing that song. Its funny you posted that cause thats what i think about when i hear it (recovery). Thats cute when you spit like a G subfree! Keep on keepn on y'all.....you know i will!

Fun Times 3 years ago

subfree...i missed an important word..."and you're gonna upset me sould read "and you're never gonna upset me"....but you know that... u better:)

That was a very sweet text queenie. you are really something else lady. thank you very much.

plaininsane...it was great talking to you tonite...it really was. i'm truly gald we did...i know everything will be cool. I KNOW IT.

God Bless you three.

7 yr opiate addict 3 years ago

Can anyone out there tell me how long this exhaustion lasts? I'm on day 19 of no subs but am so tired. No motivation to do anything.

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

7 yr opiate addict: You've made it past the hard part so that's good. I think most people start getting their full energy back around 6 weeks, but everyone's different.... it may come sooner... it's just part of the process. Don't worry yourself about when it will come, just let it come... and it will. I will be 2 months off this Friday, and I've been pushing myself - doing physical labor - it's really hard to start, but once you get going you feel a lot better. Don't get discouraged. Hang in there.... life gets better. Good luck.

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

Gotta fill y'all in on what happened today & reply to earlier posts - be back in a little while.

Fun Times 3 years ago

hey 7yr...i got u beat by exactly 10....much to my chagrin. That motivation and energy thing...for ME...was a son of a BITCH...on day 75. But that was me...many people have had it easier, b/c they got off like 1 or 2 mgs for a few months or weeks.

i kicked from 17 years off H, meth, and subs from 8 to 0. Supremely stupid. 4 years on subs, 11 or 12...give or take on meth...and i kick from 8mg...maybe the stupidest thing...well one of them...that i ever did.

How long have u been on subs...and how hard did u kick from 7years?

7 yr opiate addict 3 years ago

Thanks for the feedbak. I've been on the subs for about two yrs. Weened down for weeks to 1mg or .5 (breaking the tablets). I can say clonopine, lunesta and hot baths do help with sleep. Just wanting some sort of motivation back. I guess I've been a prescription addict on and off for about 16yrs. Just taking percocets, oxy, vicodin, etc.

PlainInsane 3 years ago

Welcome 7 yr

Great job at tapering down. Your going to make things a lot easier on yourself. I'm at 42 days and still have the issues with energy and severe insomnia but then again I did the stupid thing and kicked off 16mg. every other day which I was on for 5 years. It's been a living hell. Hang in there and try to get as much exercise as possible. Things will slowly turn around. Good luck and keep us informed of how your doing.

Fun Times

sent you a email. Had a pretty good day today and got 6 hrs of sleep last night.

Subfree

Hope all is well with you. Hang in there gal! Hope your counseling session went well. Take care all.

Fun Times 3 years ago

Hey 7yr, MY APOLOGIES...WELLCOME!!!!!...you are very smart. It takes a lot of common sense and disclipline to taper like you did. I'm curious...were you ever at the point where you were 'comfortable' on .5mg or 1mg? Were you feeling 'good' on those low doses..like yourself? Please let me know. I'm proud of you, and the folks here are pulling for you. Stick around. Please.

subfree...u owe us an update lady. STAY IN TOUCH. please.

Plaininsane...as the only guy that I've dealt with on this site, more importantly someone I can SINCERELY relate to, I'm glad as hell we 'met'. Glad you got some sleep. Thanks for the email. you sounded great. God works in mysterious ways. You helped me by us talking/emailing. It was like looking into a mirror. While giving you advice at one point I realized that I was 'working this thing out' for myself too. And I'm glad I did.

Queenie..you know I'm very proud of you. Stay ruff lady. Stay humble. Trust God.

I mean this: TAKE CARE OF YOURSELVES GUYS...YOU ARE ALL DOING SOMETHING TERRIFIC AND I'M PROUD OF ALL OF YOU.

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

Wassup Wassup WASSUP.... it's all good here. Don't laugh, I know it's sad... but the counsler we went to see is the Program Director/Counsler at the methadone clinic we use to go to. She has her own practice when she's not up there, and we used her for my son when he was having attatchment issues with me. I know her fairly well, and she knows A LOT about me and hubbie of course because of the clinic. It's slim pickin's around here y'all. So anyway, it was really a waste of my time because the bitch just kept trying to talk me and hubbie into going back to the methadone clinic. I was dumbfounded. I'm serious, the bitch really pissed me off, and I let out all this anger and frustration I've been feeling. I just hit a boiling point, and I took it out on her. And I told y'all, I'm not a confrontational person, but she was just being ridiculous - like she didn't even care what we were really there for - like it didn't even phase her, and she was saying rude, blunt shit & I told her this shit just happened to me, and the wound is still very fresh & I didn't appreciate her talking to me like that. It was W I L D!!!!! I just couldn't believe it.... so after like 10 minutes of arguing I told her where she could shove it, and my husband was just staring at me like damn, what the hell has gotten in to YOU? Like he was scared of me or something.... LOL. I told him lets GO, and she proceeded to threathen me for not paying... You want me to pay $150 for 20 minutes of bullshit after insulting me???? BITCH PLEASE. So she threathened to call the police, and I'm like, what the hell are THEY going to do?? My husband knows them all, and what the hell could they do anyway, seriously? That bitch has done fell off her rocker, for real. Whoa. My husband ended up giving her $50, and we got into a big ass fight about that. We don't ever fight, seriously. Fuck that shit, I don't need anyone's help.... I really don't care enough right now to get help, and I can't afford that shit anyway. It was too soon I think anyway because I jump into PISSED mode every time I even look at him right now. If he had a brother, I just might DO IT. But he doesn't so squash that. I'm joking anyway - I'm ticked, but I couldn't do it. SO ANYWAYS - good to hear from you Plain Insane. That's really sweet that every one gets along so well on this site. I can tell it's kind of fizzling out, but I hope everyone keeps in touch. I really do because I couldn't have made it through this kick - couldn't be still making it through this kick - without y'all's help. I don't just send pictures of my kids to anyone.... you really made an impression with me - it might have even been foolish to do that, but it's done. I'm guessing no one else is having skin problems then? Maybe it's all the vitamins and stuff I have been taking... I stopped a couple days ago so we'll see if it clears up. Well, it was nice to unload. Thanks for "listening".... and Queenie: I am more GANGSTA than you know - LOL - just because I'm stuck out here in the country doesn't mean I'm a country gal...hehe... I would LOVE, and I mean LOVE to live in Florida!! It's so gorgeous there... you're lucky. If you and Fun Times ever get serious, I'd make him move to where you're at.... screw that cold weather!!!

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

By the way, I forgot to say that there was protection used (ugh, I'm gonna throw up thinking about it), and I don't even think it's a possiblity she could be pregnant with his child - I've been worrying myself about it, but I knew he wasn't THAT stupid (he's been fighting me about having another baby) - I didn't tell y'all, but we've been talking for the past year about having another baby together - I've actually been the one pushing the issue - and that was one main reason for getting clean - he admitted that he thought I was trying to get pregnant because I was telling myself then I would HAVE to quit... and he was scared I still wouldn't quit, and he didn't want to go through that, and all this might have something to do with why he did what he did...... so we're making progress.

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

By the way, I forgot to say that there was protection used (ugh, I'm gonna throw up thinking about it), and I don't even think it's a possiblity she could be pregnant with his child - I've been worrying myself about it, but I knew he wasn't THAT stupid (he's been fighting me about having another baby) - I didn't tell y'all, but we've been talking for the past year about having another baby together - I've actually been the one pushing the issue - and that was one main reason for getting clean - he admitted that he thought I was trying to get pregnant because I was telling myself then I would HAVE to quit... and he was scared I still wouldn't quit, and he didn't want to go through that, and all this might have something to do with why he did what he did...... so we're making progress.

PlainInsane 3 years ago

Subfree,

That's why I've had a hard time with counseling over the years. Seems like they never really understand what your going thru. All they care about is the money their making. BTW I haven't had any issues with my skin. You've got a long way to go with the husband but hang in there. At some point things will clear up and you'll be able to really know in your heart what you want. You've got shit piled on shit now and you need to concentrate on your health. I wish I could say more to help you but this is one of those things that you have to find your way through. I sure hope you have some close friends that you can confide in. It's definately good to get stuff off your chest and not hold it in. If you hold it in someday you will explode and that wouldn't be good for anyone. Anyways hang in there and I check or post everyday and will continue to do so. You have all been a great help to me and i'm greatful for eveyone here.

God Bless.

FunTimes,

How you doing my man? Thanks for the kind email. It really makes my days better. I'm glad if I can help you in anyway also. You've definately opened my eyes and for that i'm very greatful. We've been through a lot of similar situations and its great to get someone else's perspective on things. Slept good last night but was drained today, no pain really just tired to the point of almost nodding off at my desk. This lack of sleep is really starting to catch up with me. 2 more days and have a 3 day weekend which will give me some time to try and catch up on missed sleep. I remember you saying in on one of your posts that aways into your kick you fell asleep watching b-ball on t.v. and slept for like 16 hrs or so. That's kinda where I feel I'm at. Just need to make it to the weekend. Hopefully i'm stabilizing a little bit. It's been six weeks of hell now. Talk soon and everybody be strong!!!

Fun Times 3 years ago

Plainsane...you're cooler than cool. Subfree...I'd emial and talk with you too, I wish I could, I really do...but you are married...and I just do not do anything like that. If I get married..I dont my wife talking to some other guy...so I dont do that. I dont chaet..as Ive said...and I wa just brought up to be very respectful toward women. When I was younger I could get jealous, and it sucked. Just so you know...if you weren't settled down...I'd love to say Hi to you as a friend. You have a suprising wild side.

Yeah...I felt the site fizzling out. But I know who takes the time to Post. And I hope that we just keep doing it. I know I will. I'll bet plainsane will too.

Unfortunately...I have no idea of what women think. It's beyond me..and I thought I was smart. So I hope you Post as well subfree. We need a woman to share too. and you do share...and it is appreciated it.

It feels good to get help...and just as good to help someone in our position.

as always..I care for you guys. i really do. take care.

Plaininsane 3 years ago

Subfree

How's it going? You doing o.k. women? Post and let us know how your doing.

Fun Times

How you doing today? Had a good day today. Got one more day to make it and then 3 off. That's exciting for me. Now I can try to catch up on sleep. Not going anywhere and don't plan on doing anything just staying home and relaxing. Hopefully spend time with my family and be the person I'm supposed to be. Thanks for the MMS it's nice to put a face to the voice. I didn't even notice it till about noon today, My shitty phone doesn't alert me when I get messages- either that or I'm going deaf in my old age. Take care and talk soon.

subfreechickadee 3 years ago

I don't want anyone to take anything I say in this post the wrong way. In fact, y'all will probably agree with me. I, SERIOUSLY, don't want anyone to freak out or worry about me or any of that, if y'all even would. I'm just going to be real and SPEAK FROM MY HEART. And I am dead serious about everything I am going to say. Fun Times: I don't feel left out, I understand. Fact is, I understand that we don't have that much in common, I'm married, so on and so forth, it's cool... I'm really thankful that I met you guys, and I realize I probably shouldn't have bogged down this hub with my personal problems. Truth is, I don't really have anyone to talk to about my personal problems besides my husband, and we can all see the problem there. All of my friends are addicts in one way or another, and we all know how self absorbed you can be when you're like that. But IT'S OK - I'm OK, really - I got a little emotional from time to time on here - I let it all out - and that was cool, but I realize I shouldn't burden you guys with these things - y'all could probably care less about the details, and I'm SERIOUSLY OK with that too. So NO NEED to respond to that - I know you guys care about my recovery, and that's what this site is all about. And y'all have supported me & helped me more than you will ever know.... I will never forget y'all, ever. No need to keep posting to each other when y'all can email, you know? I can't keep posting on here because I feel like a fake. I have failed myself, my children, and everyone I care about. Yeah, you can guess what I'm saying. I guess I'm not as strong as I thought I was. So maybe I'll pop back up on here some time from now, going through this terrible mess all over again. Seriously though, I can't help anyone right now because I can't even help myself. And that's the point of this site. I feel as if I would be detrimental to this site if I stayed. I don't belong to the group anymore guys. I am so proud of you, Plain Insane, and you also Fun Times.... 17 years is a long time to be using any type of drug, let alone several, and I hope you realize what an accomplishment you've made - I'm sure you do, but just take the time to treasure it. You are both really great, incredible guys, really. Thanks for taking the time out of your hectic lives to help me. I wish all of you much luck and success in your recovery and life. I really struggled with telling y'all about me "messing up" again because I don't want y'all to think all your help was for nothing. Because it wasn't. And I hope you both continue to help people. Y'all don't have to respond to my post because there's really nothing to say.... I mean, what can you say? I'm going to be fine... it will all work itself out!! I just wanted y'all to know that you've made a difference in my life, and I hope y'all continue to do that with other people. Fun Times - you've made me laugh so hard, don't ever change!! I really hope things work out with you and Queenie, I really do. You deserve to be happy. I guess this kick makes you really emotional, and maybe that's why I felt so close to you guys. It was really cool to have this site while going through all that, and I hope more people take advantage of it.... IT REALLY DOES HELP. Thank you so much for everything. TAKE CARE because I really do care... I am emotionally invested in y'all's recovery, and I will be reading y'all's posts (for as long as you continue to post) to see how you're doing. Love Always, S

queenie 3 years ago

subfree, relapse is part of recovery and we all do it. I hope you stick around but if you dont i wish you the best!

PlainInsane 3 years ago

Subfree,

Hang in there, don't give up and keep working at it. Don't beat yourself up over this. You have so many tough things going on now. If I was in your shoes I'd have slipped also. You really sound to me like a wonderful women who has had your life turned upside down (which you didn't deserve). I admire your fight after what has happened to you. I wish you all the best and you will be in my prayers. I hope at some point you will post again. You have not failed at all, you've just hit a little bump in the road. Thank you for all your previous posts, words of inspiration for me and your will to overcome this. I know you'll be successful at some point. You're not a fake and you haven't failed your family. Remember your children who love you and and will never stop. Be strong and keep fighting. I hope you can work your relationship out and then you'll be able to concentrate on this kick. GOD BLESS YOU WOMEN and hang in there.

Fun Times 3 years ago

Subfree...if you wanna shoot me an email...I'd like to take a second and chat or email you...I'm sure Queenie won't mind. I wanna know where you are at with this relapse and try and offer some advice if I can. Thats Recovery. Its a "We" thing.

You haven't done anything that can't be fixed. Friends don't bail on each other when things get a little tuff. Everyone asked you to stick around. So stick around.

seroquilt Klonaman 3 years ago

Ghost from the past........

I figure I update you all. It's been over 2 months and still now subs. The withdrawl IMHO was pretty easy to beat. 2 things really bothered me then and now, actually. I can't sleep anymore for shit, even with now 200mg Seroquel or 3mg lunesta or 12.5mg Ambien CR. Besides sleeping about an hour a night, with the help of sleep aids, I sweat all day and all night still.

So..... Other than No real sleep and sweating my ass off I'm pretty much over a 7 year run with any kind of opioids. Of course I'm only into 2 months.....

Ohhhh I'm not taking Seroquil or Klonopin anymore..... maybe I should change my name....... lol

Seroquilt Klonaman 3 years ago

ohh yeah. I think Adderall is starting to have adverse effects on me now that I'm not taking suboxone anymore. When I take Adderall now. It makes me feel REALLY cracked out, misserable, achey, Lazy, nausious, and worst yet It makes my concentration worse than ever!!! I called my Doc and he recommends that I just stop Adderall all together.... so...... I can cross off Adderall now too.

Phoenix54 3 years ago

Hi I am new here. I have been off of Suboxone for about 4 weeks now. I was on 8mg in the beginning and then got down to 4mg. I was on it for about 6 months and found out I was pregnant. I stayed on the suboxone and got down to 1mg while I was pregnant. The baby was born somewhat addicted. He had seizures and tremors. They kept him for a week and put him on an anti-seizure medicine. After was all said and done, I tried to get off of it and it didnt work. I had a 2 week old baby and I wasnt ready. I finally got off of it and my baby is 11 months old now. I was on under 1mg and I had severe withdrawls. The first 2 days I threw up, stomach in knots, in the bathroom constintly and oh my god...showers (hot) were the help for the first week.

I have been having issues to where I cant control my body temp at all! If I watch a show that is about life and death I get chills up and down my body and almost sweat. I have to have the a/c on as little as possible b/c the air feels like needles on my body and its like 90 degrees where I live...so that doesnt help. Im about to fry my husband out of the house. At night I cant stop moving and hurting. My legs are on fire and advil is what helps me out. I was on a blood pressure medicine for the first week to help the withdrawls...which helped but I had noooo energy for my baby. Then I stopped that and got a huge spurt of energy and couldnt stop cleaning the house. Now going on week 4 Im back to my lazy not feeling good self again. Im moderately depressed. Nothing I cant handle though. Im tired of taking medicine! Before all this I was on Methadone for over 2 years and beofre that addicted to anything...so I am happy to be where I am today witha beautiful son and a moderately happy life.

I know some of you have been going through the withdrawls longer than I and sure you were on higer doses. I am trying to find out when the stomach pains and restless legs go away...oh yeah and the uncontrollable ANXIETY!!!!???

HELP!

Thanks

PlainInsane 3 years ago

Welcome Phoenix54,

Your going through all the usual stuff it seems. It's hard to know when these things will subside. Just when you think things are getting better, all hell breaks loose and here we go again. From what I understand the longer you've been on subs the longer the w/d's last. The restless legs are a killer. I had them pretty severely the first month then they went away. Last Sat. night when i tried to go to sleep they were back again. I don't know if you read anything about PAWS but this is something you could experience for up to a couple years from what I understand. This is just like the w/d's coming back full force after you've went a period of time and been fine. This is a nasty drug to get off of because of the duration of the w/d's. Only thing I can say is hang in there and be strong. Someday this will all be behind you. You may want to talk to your Dr. and see if you can get some Requip which is for RLS. I've heard some say that it helps. My anxiety has not been to bad, but the depression comes and goes and sometimes it's pretty rough. My stomach pains come and go also so its hard to know when it will quit. I'm nearing day 60 and I have some good days and a lot of bad days. Having no energy and having to work 50+ hrs of work a week makes it much tougher. Good luck and keep in touch and let us know how it's going.

David 3 years ago

Even if inject suboxone IV, the buprenorphine still has a higher affinity to µ than naloxone, does it not? When I was on Suboxne, I swallowed the pooled saliva, and since first pass metabolism doesn't apply to naloxone, I was still getting the full dose. I do not think precipitated withdrawal is possible, unless you're addicted to a different opiate/oid, methadone especially. I am on day 6 of quitting, and I must say the physical withdrawals are only slightly less excruciating than heavy hydrocodone. Reckkit also claims that on a low enough dose, for a long enough period of time, the enorphins your body produces will increase while on the drug. Last time I went though this, I had a haphazardly tramodol recovery, and I couldn't sleep for four months after quitting oxy, but I've been on Suboxone for over a year, and 2mg subutex for about 6 months now, but if my neurotransmitter levels are as fucked up for months, like last time, I'm going to be livid. Reckkitt and Benkiser (sp?) have already advertised false aspects of the drug, but I can appreciate the white lie they tell you, to try an keep you from injecting the drug. Another thing, buprenorphine without the naloxone (subutex) will completely block regular agonists, it'll make you feel a little tired, but no effects, even if you're only on 2mg of it. I've heard that at too high a dose, buprenorphine will start blocking itself. The bottom line is, during the two years I was on buprenorphine, I didn't have a single craving unless there was like a painkillers in front of me, so it took care of that without getting me high. Since it's metabolized into norepinephrine, it's does bring a level of comfort but that's about it. If I don't have to go through the 6 months of neurochemistry recovery, as you do with regular opiates, then I'll say the drug is worth it. If I do however, it's a waste of money, and a waste of time, because you can start injecting heroine and go through a 2 day withdrawal, or you can get a high affinity antagonist pumped through and go through an excruciating withdrawal, that lasts about for hours, but that treatment is about $3000+

PlainInsane 3 years ago

I've heard that the quick, expensive detox doesn't work that well and you come out of feeling like your body was on the verge of death. Don't want to go that route. Definately the best way to go is a very long taper over 6 to 9 months.

Phoenix54 3 years ago

Hey PlainInsane, thanks for the info.

So you are on day 60? And still feel like crap? That sucks. I cant stand this stupid feeling. I'd have to say that if I knew about all this, I would've gotten off the H and stayed off the bulls*it. But backt then, no matter what anyone says...they wouldnt have gotten off of it. They need to experiance this to be able to be strong enough not to do it again. I also did NOT have ANY cravings of using while on Suboxone. For the first week or so I thought...."hmm, it would be nice to eat a perk or something" but I never did b/c that wouldve set me back. I actually still have some Subs left.. I just stopped b/c I was ready. I dont have any contact with users or dealers which is a bonus. I havent for years now. It would be so weird anyway.

I worry about the depression and the "after effects" of this though. I havent been clean "clean" (off of every kind of drug) in over 8 years. So...it will be hard not to get up and say to myself..."do I have my meds?" I always made sure I had them with me just in case. Or if I felt like crap.. I took some. I rely on meds of anykind to cure my pain. Even if it is Advil. I hate going through pain and depression. I already have issues with depression. They "say" Im Bipolar, manic, mood disorders, dilusional.. blah blah! I had all these issues b/c I was haveing postpartum depression 7 months AFTER I had my baby. It hit me very hard and I starting hearing voices. Seeing htings...thinking people were out to kill me.. it was horrible! They put me on meds for the bipolar and that was a RARE side effect. After that experiance... I said F this! I'm quiting everything!

I am slowly getting better and in time 6 months or so..if I cant handle depression then I will start a low dose of something. They told me that the meds (anti-depressants, mood stablizers) could have messed with my chemical levels and since I was on Sub, that couldve been the big issue.

I am a stay at home mom and a lot of people say "oh, you're soo lucky" blah blah. No, Im not. I mean its nice to not have to work but it sucks b/c it gets to you after a while....you sitting in the house and bored...sick..a baby crawling and crying everywhere...umm does that sound fun??

Anyway, thanks for the info. Keep me posted on how you are too. You are soo lucky to  have 2 months down. June 1st will be one month for me! I am happy that I finally did it. I know it will pay off in the end. That is why I have a positive attitude. Sorta..lol! The lingering pain is what pisses me off! lol!

Thanks!

PlainInsane 3 years ago

Phoenix54,

Yeah I know all about the depression. I've been on at least 30 different anti-depressants. The subs did the trick for me. After detoxing off opiates I stayed on the subs because I had no depression. 5 years later and i'm ready to get off them. I started thinking its time to be drug free and hadn't experienced any bad depression for many years. Little did I know that these subs don't want to let you go. At times I think this is never going to end (these w/d's). I can only hope this ends soon. I have to take sleeping pills or I won't sleep and even sometimes they don't work. I've had several nights with no sleep and work the next day. It's been tough to function. If I didn't work though it might be tougher on me cause at least at work I can take my mind off it somewhat. I know what its like raising young kids also and it ain't no picnic especially if your dealing with something like this. I sounds like you tapered down to 1mg for sometime before stopping, so hopefully you will get thru this much quicker. I jumped off at 16 mg every other day for 5 years and it almost killed me. Good luck, hang in there and be strong.

Greenburger 2 years ago

Wow Plaininsane. Dropping at 16mg's every other must have been tough. I have been on Sub for a year and a half. I recently began tapering and I have noticed lots of joint pain. And the bottom of my feet are tender and painfull to the point of being unable to work. Which is a bumber because I find it is easier to quit opiods when you can be active enough to sleep at night.

I am down to 1mg once a day. trying to level out so I can go to random chips. It is difficult to break the 8's up small and keep a consistant size. So what i am doing is making then close to powder and trying to keep myself on the edge of sickness. I only hope that staying a little sick for a month or so will help when I just stop all together.

Good luck to all my fellow quiters.

Greenburger 2 years ago

Wow Plaininsane. Dropping at 16mg's every other must have been tough. I have been on Sub for a year and a half. I recently began tapering and I have noticed lots of joint pain. And the bottom of my feet are tender and painfull to the point of being unable to work. Which is a bumber because I find it is easier to quit opiods when you can be active enough to sleep at night.

I am down to 1mg once a day. trying to level out so I can go to random chips. It is difficult to break the 8's up small and keep a consistant size. So what i am doing is making then close to powder and trying to keep myself on the edge of sickness. I only hope that staying a little sick for a month or so will help when I just stop all together.

Good luck to all my fellow quiters.

sub newbie 2 years ago

Does anyone know if 24 hours is enough time to go from a gram of H a day to subs? I'm thinking it should be a bit longer. Also, how does ibogaine work with suboxone? I imagine that you would need a booster dose of the ibo at some point. I am trying to figure out if I should go on subs (my doctors advice) or do the ibo treatment.I have finally broken the methadone habit after 6 or 7 years by going back on the H and I am now at a crossroads. Do I go on subs or do the ibogaine?

My doctor recommends getting stabilized on the subs, but I think I would rather just do a 2 week taper to get off the H. This is making my head spin as I am not sure who to believe anymore, especially with all the horror stories on here about the sub detox. I have heard that subs are a good way to taper though if you only do them very short term. Any help would be appreciated.

PlainInsane 2 years ago

Greenburger,

Yes it was and is very tough. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. The first month I would take .5 mg every 4 or five days. Didn't help that much but took the edge off. I think the long slow taper is definitely the way to go. I'm still having trouble sleeping unless i take a sleeping pill (lunesta) and still have the rls. I'm coming up on 60 days now and still have little to no energy.

Sub newbie,

What I understand is you need to be experiencing w/d symptoms before you start the subs. If you do go on sub get off them as quickly as possible. I would say no more than a couple weeks. Then do a taper off them and you should be fine. Most of the people here who are suffering severe w/d symptoms from the subs have been on them for many months or years. Good Luck.

Greenburger 2 years ago

Thanks PLaininsane, I am down to the smallest chips I can break and I think taking it avery few days is the way to go. That way you get some reliefe. I realize that is sure to draw it out, but at least your body is begining the process. I just need to feel normal every few days so I can love my wife longer than two strokes.

And Sub Newbie. I totally second Plain on this. DO NOT MAKE SUBOXONE A LONG TERM TREAtment. It gets in you deepper than methadone. I have sever l;eg and foot pain and it increases as I decrease my dosage.

sub newbie 2 years ago

Thanks for your comments, Greenburger and Plaininsane. My doctor told me that sub is an easier kick than methadone. I imagine it like six of one half a dozen of the other. I still have not started sub yet and I was wondering if anyone has experience with the plant Iboga or it's extract ibogaine and suboxone. Will the ibogaine work for sub addicts too? Damn these drugs. I've thrown away almost 15 years of my life, scared away the woman I wanted to marry and grow old with, sold all my beautiful, expensive music gear chasing a high that doesn't exist. What the fuck is up with that? What is wrong with me? I used to be able to stand on my own 2 feet, but now all I have are bum legs and a very expensive crutch. Gotta stop hating myself but it's hard. Opiates hate me and I hate opiates!

My question for today is this: Is it really true that sub puts your drug cravings and insane drug seeking behavior into remission?

queenie 2 years ago

Hey everyone, just want to say hi and offer some encouragement. I have been off subs for about 3 and a half months and feel great. yes, its a long process (about 6 weeks for me) but when you finally get to the other side, you will enjoy a freedom that you haven't known in so long. Life is so much better clean. I think faster, laugh more and possess a genuine childlike appreciation for life. I wish you all the best. Keep on keep'n on!

Fun Times 2 years ago

First....hello. couple comments. ultra rapid detox is an awful cruel joke. i know...it was played on me at my own behest...for$7,500. I promise...that is no fun.

For me subs were a blessing. Getting off them didn't hurt per se, but it just drained me. That said...i much preferred seeing a doctor once a month than ealing with H or meth.

Subnewbie...get off dope and on subs. Heroin is a fuckin life destroyer. Yes...you can use $300 worth of H a day and yes...subs will stop the withdrawal. As for stopping the cravings...thats up to you. You have to want to get off junk...b/c subs will make life tolerable, and give you a chance to live your life stabily and eventually taper off them, but they won't get you high like Heroin. Understand that goin in. And you cannot switch from meth to subs unless you are at 30 mgs or below of meth. Subs do have some amazing property that they work for everyone from vicodin users (i have 2 friends that kicked vicodidn w/subs) to full blown H adicts like you, and along time ago, like me.

Plaininsane, you are really being cool by keeping the site going. Good man. Im sure u got my text Friday nite. Queenie...awwww... tou are so cute.

Take care everyone

subnewbie 2 years ago

Fun times

Thx for your input. Everyone I know who has done the rapid detox has relapsed almost immediately after. As for sub, you seem to be the only one on this forum saying that the sub detox is no big deal. I think I will just do a 2 week taper off the h, straight down from 8 and hopefully it won't have a chance to stick to me so much. I know a guy who did that and said he never as much as even lost a night of sleep.

There is another very interesting forum online, by a former anaesthesioligist and opiate addict called suboxonetalkzone.com. This guy is Mr.. sub witha capital M. He makes alot of very interesting points. The worst part of the opiate addiction for me is the isolation and depression. The physical stuff sucks, but the mental anguish is almost unbearable. I find myself playing chicken with buses and thinking about carbon monoxide...say no more, I'm sure you know what i mean. Life destroyer is a good way to put it. I'm 40, soon to be 41 and I don't think I can face the prospects of another decade of this shit. Why do we do it to ourselves?

PlainInsane 2 years ago

Fun Times,

I did indeed get message, Thanks Hope your doing well.

Subnewbie,

If you are having severe depression getting off the h I would recommend a short time on the subs. It will help you get through that depression from quitting the h. It did wonders for my depression, thats why I stayed on it so long. Since attempting to get off the subs my depression has comeback somewhat but not nearly as bad as when i tried to kick the opiates without the subs. Good luck and hang in there.

Fun Times 2 years ago

subnewbie...read some earlier posts of mine...if you care to. i must have given you the wrong impression. i came off subs too fast. it just about broke me in half...and i felt really down after being off them a LONG time. IT AINT FUN,,,but it can be done. First get off dope.

Phoenix54 2 years ago

Hey..wow, a lot has gone on since I last checked in.

PlainInsane and Sub newbie,

I'd have to say that I know about the long-term depression and it sucks! I went through a horrible relationship and used all types of drugs and in the end of it all ended up abusing myself and drugs. I had so many suicidal thoughts it wasnt even funny. Thats why I got on heroin b/c it took my mental pain away. I realized I was addicted and said F it I feel fine and can manage. I couldnt obviously.... So I thought oohhh Methadone will save my life and mental anguish. Not for long b/c I found crack cocaine and my life didnt get anywhere from there...Finally I said I am way too young for this..at the time 21-22 yrs old. Couldnt hold down a relationship, job, no stability...anywhere in my life. So, I thought Suboxone. It was a freakin saviour! I didnt crave ANY drugs. I stayed on it for 2 yrs and said Im done...plus my baby of course helped me to see it was time to get off Sub.

To Sub newbie,

I know your pain! Mentally I wasnt stable and couldnt get stable. This might sound weird but when you do the H are you getting off...like trying to chase the high or are you like...uggh, gotta wake up and find some shit so I can manage?? You have to be mentally ready to be clean clean. Off everything. The Sub will help that depression like PlainInsane mentioned. I think long-term for you would be benifitual. Not years...unless thats what you needed. I had a friend go through the same process of "getting off" and she is now currently in jail. She has so much anxiety that she "has" to have it in her. The Sub. Its really b/c she isnt ready to not use. She is such a great person but when you arent mentally ready (for the most part) to get off Suboxone then stay on. I know you arent even on but I wouldnt go the other route of rapid detox tripping on a root plant or some shit. Also, yes it does put your cravings and drug seeking behavior into remission but it also helps you get a more stable life. You can work, carry on convos...be normal. After a while of being on Sub you realize I can do this without anything. That took over 2 years for me to say it and do it. Methadone is a sucky withdrawl as well but I couldnt hack it honestly...I slipped after I got off the meth and used H for a bit (couple days) till I got on Sub. I used pills for about 2 days in that process to delay withdrawl. It took a long time to get my severe depression on beating myself up minutely! lol! Its true it sucks being sad. But the pain was gone b/c of the Sub though almoslt immediatly. ITs hard to explain. I watched the love of my life (back then) go from a great awesome smart as hell guy to a full blown drug seeking heroin abuser - methadone - eating patches and massive amounts of pills then back on methadone and shooting it as well as valiums and doing dope on top. I stuck by his side and thats kinda where the mental anguish came from... This site helps out a lot with the explaining of what to look for and the mental issues we experiance. Its nice to see other people going through this too.

everyone else,

Im feeling like shit (been off for a month now) but I know in the end it goes away. I just want to find a remedy for my f'n legs! Thats the only thing I cant handle. Pot helps a little but the pain is insaine when Im not stoned anymore. I dont want to eat opiate pills to help this pain or sub...so I tried smoking. I am tired of short term remedies. I know some of you had the leg thing too. Did anyone find anything that helped?? I feel like a kid again going through growing pains!! It sucks! I am a small person and I can barely do physical activities. I am so weak from abusing my body for so long. My new thing is Im trying to eat healthier.... then maybe work out. I hear that working out helps but I tried walking and when its time to go to bed, my legs are THROBBING and burning sooo bad I want to die! I lasted the chills over and over again and the sneezing every 10 seconds and then aches and stomach issues...all of it but the leg pains are unreal ( for me at least) not everyone gets like this I know. I know I will start some meds here soon though. Maybe I have RLS cuz I thought I did b/4 I got on shit a long time ago. Its been so long that my body hasnt been supressed on something that I dont know anymore. Its kinda like being re-born again getting off everything. You have to re-discover yourself.

Thanks for listening!

Take care all.

dallasgirl 2 years ago

Hi Guys!

I'm on my 10th day without subs, I was on it for approx. 2 years. The withdrawls are a fucking nightmare. I cant sleep more than 2 hours a night still, and i'm at work trying to deal. I just wish that I had stoppped taking them sooner. My doctor made a killing off of me. Every month i would pay $125.00 (because with suboxone they didnt take insurance) and then for the actual meds, it was like $90.00. I am sooo pissed. I just delayed the fucking inevitable. I almost feel like I wasnt clean these last 2 years because even though I wasnt taking pain meds i was still dependent on a drug, which i am now paying the price for not taking them anymore. I know things will get better, but damn its hard, especially when you cant sleep.

Sub newbie 2 years ago

HEy Phoenix 54.

Thx for yr insight. I use The H to function, to get me through the day. It doesn't get me high at all. Of course, I must still be chasing the high or I wouldn't keep doing it. I don't know anything else. I am supposed to stop using today so I can go on sub tomorrow, but seriously, wtf? My plan is to only use the sub for a week to wean off right away. I know a guy who did it successfully 6 months ago. With all of your scary w/d stories, I know I don't want to be on sub long term.

Right now I am again at a point (as ususal) where evreything is on the verge of going to shit any second. cCme to think of it, it's been like this for so long...I might lose my job, my place to live because of the addiction. No it's not because of the addiction, it's because of me and my choices and my addcited brain. I have already thrown away a great career, a wonderful loving g/f and all I care about is getting more money to get more dope. What a life!

I enjoy hearing success stories if you know anyone who has made it let me know.

Thanks and hang in there evreyone

Josh Gipson 2 years ago

This may sound wierd but me and my friends have done this and it really does help for the needle fealings. When Air blows on you it feels like needles beacuse your skin is hiper sensative and your hairs on your skin are the most sensative on your body and when you with drawls your hairs Pick up everything..... Its kinda wierd but shave your body hair and that helps out alot... I know it sounds crazy but it works. Dont worry it will grow back Shave your legs and your arms = your arms wont be as sensative and your legs you will get less tingles or those little feelings when your trying to sleep that make you move your legs like sombody is touching you with the tip of a feather......This is a bout the wierest post i have ever posted but boy it helps

PlainInsane 2 years ago

dallasgirl,

I've been going thru the same thing for almost 2 months now all the while working. I'm taking lunesta at night during the week so I can get some sleep. I had countless nights with no sleep at all. I finally had to take .5 mg of sub every 5 to 7 days just to get some relief. Don't kill yourself over it. This is a long lasting kick and is something I could've never imagined. Did you taper down before stopping? It's getting a little better but still tough. If I would of known what I was in for I'd have definately tapered down to a crumb before jumping off. Well that's in the past and I can only move forward. I was taking 16mg every other day then jumped. Damn near killed me. Hang in there. Good luck.

Sub newbie,

You got to be ready to do this and want to do this for yourself. If your not 1000% ready to do this for yourself your going to have a hard time being successful. If you start the subs they should keep you from getting depressed and help you with the cravings but you gotta want it. Good luck, I hope it works out for you.

Josh Gipson

Never heard of that before, luckily i'm not having a lot of the restless leg stuff anymore. More a terrible lack of energy and my stomach is stilled messed up. It kinda goes and comes now. Some days are better than others. If my legs were bothering me though I would try anything to help that. Even though its painless its still like torture.

dallasgirl 2 years ago

PlainInsane

See that's what scares me. You say its been 2 months!!!! and you're still not 100%. Thats crazy!! Yeah, I tappered down. I took this Tylenol verson of Nyquil, and it made me sooo tired, but I still couldnt sleep, so it made it even worse. You know i took the pain meds because I wanted to feel happy, but right now i would kill to just feel normal.

PlainInsane 2 years ago

dallasgirl,

I know exactly what you mean. I started trying to take ambien cr at night and would take a double dose and not sleep at all the whole night. The lunesta works pretty good for the sleep. Just don't want to get addicted to that. You may not have as rough a time since you tapered down, I didn't. I would recommend anybody doing this taper down to almost nothing before stopping. I took the pain meds for the same reason, little did I know what hell it would cause me. Let us know how your doing. Stay strong and Good luck.

Greenburger 2 years ago

Yea the tapper has helped me a bunch. I litterally couldn't break the pills into anything smaller before I quit. Now I have stopped all together and i am copping OK. If you consider a bottle of wine and Xanax copping. But, the way I see it is so long as the benzo use is short, I might as well take advantage of their anti anxiety effects. Unfortunately they don't do anything for the head ache and sore joints.

Phoenix54 2 years ago

Hey Greenburger,

IT seems everyone has a "copper". So far I have read so many people getting off this crap and having some sort of home remedies! I ent a month ithout anything. I tried smokin a little bit and man did it take aay the stomach pains and restless legs. That as bad. It also helps with the chills... which suuuck! I hurt a lot and if I sit around too long then I start gettin anxiety. My stomach turns. It sucks. So, smokin a little here and there helps a lot. As long as I am not eatin pills.. I feel good about my self! lol!

Dallasgirl 2 years ago

PlainInsane

Well, I tappered down, it's been 2 weeks and if i am getting better, its a really really freaking slow process, so i cant even imagine what it would be like to NOT tapper down. And it's really hard when you have to go to work like this, I dont feel like doing anything at all, and i was the employee that was always running around, I'ts just so exhausting to just get up from my chair.

Phoenix54 2 years ago

Hey Dallasgirl

I know exactly what you mean. I was exhausted too for a long time. That feeling goes away real soon for you. Do you have any other bad symptoms?

I come on here and see other people like me and I wonder WTF is goin on here? The long drag is crazy! They need to come up with a ne drug that helps this process down by half! lol!

Take care guys...its getting better for me daily now. (Almost 6 weeks off) :)

SuBeater  2 years ago

Well, its been about 4 or 5 months since my last dose of sub! Seems like it was just yesterday. :P I had this page bookmarked and figured I would check in. I'd say the first month or two were pretty bad, leg cramps being by far the worst, then the chills/sweating. I never had too much of a problem sleeping thankfully. I always slept with a fan right in my bed since I was a kid--the noise and breeze always put me right to sleep. :D

It really did feel like its never going to end since the withdrawls ease up very slowly. And its not like they all went away at the same time for me either. With dope I would feel sooooo much better after 4 or 5 days energy wise, but with sub each symptom lasted different periods of time and actually getting energy back took about 2 months.

In any case I feel normal now, it just took a long while. I'm back to jogging 3 miles/day and weight training 3/days per week. I saw rapid detox mentioned in earlier posts, and I have to say that it can really work as well. I stayed clean for about 6 years after rapid detox. I even gave up coffee and cigarettes right afterwards as I just felt so good to be off drugs! I felt like I got hit by a truck for the first few days but no W/D symtoms--just tired.The feeling of knowing I wouldnt have to go to a clinic or find dope the next morning was awesome. I kept expecting to wake up the next morning with chills and sweats but they never came. So yes, I truly believe rapid detox is an option for some people.

The main thing I think is changing your envirement. If you go in for rapid detox and come home to all your friends using you'll be more prone to relapse. I went from getting on methadone, moving to a new town, stopped haging with anyone who used, THEN had rapid detox.I remember it feeling like I was on cloud 9 since I went from years of herion use and rehabs, to years of methadone to being clean and feeling great within days. I never got the cloud 9 feeling kicking sub only because it dragged out and I felt awful for months. I'm happy and grateful I'm off it now but there just wasnt that feeling I had after rapid detox.

The only thing I can really recommend for anyone reading this is to try and get off sub quickly. It doesnt just make you feel normal, it will make you peppy and energetic with no anxiety. At least it did for me and that made me stay on it much too long. I had every intention of getting off after 1 week but I felt so good on it 1 week turned into 1 and a half years. Just know that getting off sub is gradual and takes awhile if you stay on it for too long. While typing this now I think a month isnt that long but when I was feeling like ass I truly didnt think the withdrawls would ever end...but they do. Hang in there guys.

SuBeater  2 years ago

Well, its been about 4 or 5 months since my last dose of sub! Seems like it was just yesterday. :P I had this page bookmarked and figured I would check in. I'd say the first month or two were pretty bad, leg cramps being by far the worst, then the chills/sweating. I never had too much of a problem sleeping thankfully. I always slept with a fan right in my bed since I was a kid--the noise and breeze always put me right to sleep. :D

It really did feel like its never going to end since the withdrawls ease up very slowly. And its not like they all went away at the same time for me either. With dope I would feel sooooo much better after 4 or 5 days energy wise, but with sub each symptom lasted different periods of time and actually getting energy back took about 2 months.

In any case I feel normal now, it just took a long while. I'm back to jogging 3 miles/day and weight training 3/days per week. I saw rapid detox mentioned in earlier posts, and I have to say that it can really work as well. I stayed clean for about 6 years after rapid detox. I even gave up coffee and cigarettes right afterwards as I just felt so good to be off drugs! I felt like I got hit by a truck for the first few days but no W/D symtoms--just tired.The feeling of knowing I wouldnt have to go to a clinic or find dope the next morning was awesome. I kept expecting to wake up the next morning with chills and sweats but they never came. So yes, I truly believe rapid detox is an option for some people.

The main thing I think is changing your envirement. If you go in for rapid detox and come home to all your friends using you'll be more prone to relapse. I went from getting on methadone, moving to a new town, stopped haging with anyone who used, THEN had rapid detox.I remember it feeling like I was on cloud 9 since I went from years of herion use and rehabs, to years of methadone to being clean and feeling great within days. I never got the cloud 9 feeling kicking sub only because it dragged out and I felt awful for months. I'm happy and grateful I'm off it now but there just wasnt that feeling I had after rapid detox.

The only thing I can really recommend for anyone reading this is to try and get off sub quickly. It doesnt just make you feel normal, it will make you peppy and energetic with no anxiety. At least it did for me and that made me stay on it much too long. I had every intention of getting off after 1 week but I felt so good on it 1 week turned into 1 and a half years. Just know that getting off sub is gradual and takes awhile if you stay on it for too long. While typing this now I think a month isnt that long but when I was feeling like ass I truly didnt think the withdrawls would ever end...but they do. Hang in there guys.

subisworsetome! 2 years ago

Man.... Ol man..... If you can taper down with Sub, then just taper down with what you are doing, unless you are doing heavy shi+... If on pills or one or two 80s a day, just try to taper off. It will probably save you money! Sub is a miracle drug but getting off of it is terrible... You better have a lot of will power and a couple of weeks, if not a month to sit and do not crap. It has been two weeks and I crap like a goose, my head hurts so bad I feel like I have cavities in all my upper teeth, lathargic, no energy, angry, aggrivated, can't make myself smile, depressed, no sleep, legs that want stop jerking, loneliness and wanting to be alone,.... I would rather starve than to get up and grab something to eat. With the kicker being... I have been completely insane, trying to figure out how the hell to get relief... Just moved to Phoenix with my little boy and my wife (they have been here for 4 months, I have been East coast finishing school) and now, I can't even love my son the way I should because I don't have the energy or mental compacity to grab a ball and throw it back to him. I make myself do it out of guilt and love but feel like I have been hit by a mack truck and exhausted after the fact. I go try to hide for a quick nap but my damn legs will not quit jerking, flashes of light from my minds eye will not stop strobbing. Trust me, if you can ween yourself off pain pills, do it, and don't let anyone fool you, sub can be pretty intense and very long.... I would rather just get over it. I was doing 15 to 20 oxy 10s a day after I got hooked from a script.... All the sudden I was deployed overseas with the military. I went through withdraws, it was hard, really hard but after 5 days it was ok, after a week or so, I was a killing machine agian. With this sub.... I couldn't kill a fly with one of those purple light eletric... things... hell i don't have the energy to plug the sucker in. Be strong and try to fix yourself first... then go get help... But if you do the Sub, you have a long hard road to travel and you better have some time to drive that road. Try to take care and try to fix yourself, if you are serious it will work.

Fun Times 2 years ago

subisworstome:

Hey. I feel kinda bad for you man. Shipped overseas, military, family. I give you some advice if you care. Like to see you do well. I used to post a lot. A few of us did. I know how you feel. I had long hard days.

Getting off subs can be kinda of a bitch. It's a motherfucker. I was on hard candy for 17 years, give or take, subs about 5. A month....? Hmmmmn. I have this to give this fuckin kick I just had credit, really...it was a hard motherfucker. I remember day 103 being a real bitch. Who knows why. Day 45 was cool. Strange days.

I'm just gonna give an opinion, b/c I'd love to see you succeed. That's a fact. Quit complaining. Period. Quit feeling sorry for yourself...it does not fucking help. Complain on this site if you need too...that's fine. The shit you are dealing with is fucked up. When you 'log off'...it's time to be HARD motherfucker. The body is fucked. The mind is fucked. But...if you slow down, take things 20 minutes at a time...don't fucking worry about your family troubles now...when your son has a healthy dad back....all will be well. So fuck the future...and just let time pass. Hard. You're a fuckin kiling machine. Act like one. Give your body simple commands...break the inertia...pick up the fuckin football for ten minutes, play catch...go lay down and die a bit....and repeat as neccessary.

Savor this pain. It doesn't get this good again...thankfully. You honestly don't have time for self-reflection, or feelings, or emotions...they're chemically fucked up anyway....they're not real. You sure the fuck shouldn't be thinking about what should. An old friend liked to say...it is what it is. Learn to love it. You're getting clean. You get up, you get down...you've come too far to start fuckin around. Shower like crazy. Put some food in your body...how do you expect it to heal without food? Or make energy? Take immodium ad, take ibuprofen. Remember this.

What you can do in 5 minutes, you can do now. Use your mind like a computer mouse. point and clik. The body will follow. Play some catch. Laugh at this kick. It's easier that way. I swear i did. I had to.

If I can help with anything, as I have kicked, just ask. c'mon soldier. Time to be fuckin hard. God Bless you and your family.

Phoenix54 2 years ago

Wow 'fun times'. That was awesome. I even got some insight out of it. The way 'subisworsetome' said some stuff though... I really relate. Im a chick with a 12 month old and cant eat shit either or even desire life right now.

I'll be honest, I went into this with an open mind and knowledge of it being a long process. I thought.. it could only get better.. but It has been 2 months and your right 'fun times', there will be days you feel great and then days where you want to die. I dont know how long you have been off this crap but I wanna know, when can you believe the thoughts going through your head? When you said our chemicals are fucked up so dont listen to our thoughts pretty much...when can we believe them? I have had so many horrible thoughts and its eatin me up. Im not a soldier here but I try to be for my family and kid. Not my self right now. My mental capacity is pretty blown. What do you do for that?

Fun Times 2 years ago

Hi Phoenix,

I feel for you. I feel for anyone jusat trying to get 'clean' and then being caught up in this mess. It aint cool. I know, my brain was shot for awhile, but then I was constantly pumping my body and brain with artifical opiates for like 17 years, b/t Meth and Subs. The body should make its own opiates, dopamine, serotonin...all that stuff that allows you to functio and feel 'normal'. Mine forgot how.

THe thoughts I had were basically "fuck this. i can't keep doing day after day, working, being exhausted, not sharp at all, and completely unmotivated, with no energy or desire to even live really, after awhile. One of the most disconcerting things was feeling healed only to encounter another wave of this bullshit. As I said, day 103 without subs was no fun for me. Day 104, not so bad.

As a rule, it certainly gets bettter with time. There are the bad days, or weeks. But they get to be fewer and fewer, and you have more and more good days as time goes on. I can't tell you exactly how long until you are fiine, I can tell you that are so close that if you just stay positive, accept that this is a clusterfuck at times, those bad times will pass. I'm not sure when I finally thought, okay...I'm happy to be alive. It helped so much being involved in NA. I do not know why these 12 step Recovery programs work...but I' ve seen them worked, and they saved my ass. If you can, get into one, do it, and get a sponsor. It does take work 'rewiring' your nural pathways...simple abstinence won't do it.

Phoenix...remember to be as HARD as HELL...and to take it very easy on yourself. Do njot get down at yourself about anything. As long as you are kicking...GET IN NA, or evev AA (just say your alcoholic...we know you used something else...but it's the same program...and it just fucking works...its the ONLY way I succedded).

And take abreath every now and then, relax (I know you have a baby...hard times call for hard actions), take a breath, understand this is all in God's hands...it will pass. The more you think about it, the more you dwell on the misery, the worse it will be, by far. People focus on the negative...the fucked up kick. Not the positive...you are doing something amazing and will be free.

Put some effort into 'fixing' your mental state (GO TO NA MEETINGS and GET AND READ the NA BOOK and listen to a SPONSOR...people and a program who have all kicked RUFF opiate habits and know how), and you'll feel better immediately. There are meetings in Phoenix, if that's were you are.

Stay hard, stay cool, do the footwork, focus on TODAY and just getting through it, remember how far you've come (didn't those first days, weeks really really suck...not to mention using and waking up sick everyday), and handle your business.

You'll be fine. No kidding. It seems longer than it is, 2 months seems like forever now. Chemical trick. It aint. It seems like DESPAIR. Chemical trick. The body and mind want some extrenal drugs...they will work the old neural pathways and play on your weeknesses. Recognize annd be hard and ignore those thoughts. You'll be fine.

Let me know how everuthing goes. Praying to God for strength, execising without energy (even walking), eating with no appetitite...do those things. SHOWER the second you wake up, and before you sleep. Take vitamins, as many as you can, especially omega 3 fish oil pills, I take gingko as well and B complex and a multi-vitamin. And just "Let Go". All will be well.

Best wishes,

Funtimes

Phoenix54 2 years ago

Well 'Funtimes', sounds like you should be a sponser. You have so much motivation it is crazy to see that far where I am. I have good days and then some bad. Honestly, I know a lot of us stayed on opiates for so long b/c that's all we knew for so long. I liked getting up and knowing I always had something to do. Even though it had a horrible consiquence...bein dope sick daily! I just dont feel like myself. Its so weird. And "rewiring" is totally a good way to put it. I am weak and I hear myself talking myself into "trying" something or "you can handle it" bullshit talk in my head. That isnt the worst of it though. ITs like I have another personality in my OWN head!!! Managing a relationship, a home, a baby and myself is so much harder than being a dope head. All I had to do was get up, call someone, go meet them, get my fix and then go to work. I didnt have this life I have now. So, getting clean and then immediatly finding someone and getting pregnant a while after was CRAZY! I never thought I would have kids....never saw myself here today. I am thankful and I know the shit I went through was for a reason...to make me stronger for whats ahead. A lot of us think we lived a hard life (which we did) but we are going to struggle minutely trying to be sober and happy. Thats hard for me. Some people's chemicals dont ever return though. I hear depression is very hard and I heard also it would take a bit to kick in but it is bad for me. I was on a high getting clean for the first 2 weeks and now Im like "WTF.... lets get a move on already!" I really DONT want to get on anti-depresants again! But... if I do, I pray they will work this time!

Thank you for the support though. I dont live in Phoenix, its just my name on here. I can find NA meetings but they work for some people and some people it doesnt work on. Im one of them. The stories I hear make me crave like a crazy person. It counteracts for me. Plus, my family and man dont understand the shit I go through on a daily basis either. So, its hard to keep all this in. I talk to a therapist but she I feel just doesnt understand. I feel alone almost.

Phoenix.

Fun Times 2 years ago

Phoenix:

By the way...the best part of the NA groups is your not alone. I've been to well over a hundred meetings...in good ones...you talk about RECOVERY...war stories are NOT ALLOWED. Plus I'll check in on you. People did it for me.

Fun Times

postsub 2 years ago

Hi, I'm new to this. I'm not a heroin addict or a heavy drug user. For pain control I took Hydrocone for years- wanteed to get off it- drained my testosterone, etc. Went to hospital detox and started suboxone. I'm on disability and have Medicare. The Suboxone burned up my presription insurance, so I could get no more very abruptly. I'm six days out from stopping and have had one of the worst days of my life, I'm 59. So I read that in the past, before Methadone, some pioneering doctors used Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C) to get heroin addicts through detox with little discomfort. I went out and got some tonight and it actually works. I've gone from feeling like jumping in front of the train right in front of where I live to feeling almost completely normal within 4 hours! Sounds simple I know, but I'm placing my mental health on it. Wish me luck, maybe give it a try.

postsub 2 years ago

Wow, didn't know i could misspell so many words, can't type, sort of symptomatic of what I'm going through.

Phoenix54 2 years ago

Wow, intresting... Vitamin C huh? I'll have to try it. I have been going through the withdrawls for almost 2 months. Its a long process. What symptoms does it seem to be helping?

vincentx90 2 years ago

day 2 of week 10 since stepping off subutex

muscle pain still there, burning sensation on flesh, creeping skin, poor sleep but improving, mental anguish is by far the worst symptom and emotions still blunted but slowly coming back online...

all symptoms are decreasing in ferocity and becoming almost manageable except the mental anguish and f***ed up thinking patterns but even these are becoming less intense although still mind bogglingly awful

almost had an OK day yesterday for the first time since starting WDs

anxiety still a major problem, took 6 seroquel yesterday night and didn't even touch me, that's 150mg (25mg tabs)

was diagnosed with asperger syndrome last year:

If you have had major problems with anxiety all your life, especially; social anxiety, social awkwardness, feelings of social isolation, behavioural problems as a kid, tendency to fly off the handle when things don't go your way, extreme views, black and white thinking, difficulty sticking to guidelines, addictive/OCD personality, heavily self-critical, racing unstoppable thoughts, inferiority complex, and so on..., then consider you MIGHT have been self-medicating all your life to compensate for some type of autism spectrum disorder (ASD), this includes such things as ADD, ADHD and PDD-NOS and not just asperger syndrome,

subutex is f***ing horrible but stick at the detox, keep chipping away, if you screw up one day don't beat yourself up just get back at it, don't criticise yourself about anything, you are doing the most important thing in your entire life right now, good on you! :) At the moment all that matters is detox and getting your mind back from the opiate monkey. Everyone else in your life will benefit from this so don't feel bad about how the WDs affect your relationships because the long term gain is HUGE and immeasurable in comparison!

Phoenix54 2 years ago

Hey 'funtimes' I didnt see you wrote back. Now that I read some other stories, I wonder about these damn drugs we swore by for so many years. NOW I get why parents (most of them) and other people...said "Dont use drugs!" I know I can get through the pain but at times I wonder why I got off them b/c I feel the same way I would when I was sick...but this time I cant take care of it. Maybe I am going through this b/c of all the shit I put my family through back then. Who knows! I know I can do this, I have been this long. I have too much to lose now. Thats what keeps me going. If I lost it though... I would loose it. I'll tell ya str8 up! Other than that, Im good. I always play it off at least. There really isnt anyone that understands this pain beside the people on here. I dont want to become numb though..

'vincentx90' , I always felt that I was masking the f'd up ness about me. The only shitty thing is, now I am figuring this out...with an addiction issue and mad crazy stress Im not used to. I mean, where would u start to get help for those things? How do you supress those issues... they are hard core. Just about all of those things yous said up there... I feel on a daily basis. Im sick of it and need a change or I cant change for myself. I cant just become numb and say F it! Thats how I was ON drugs ..ya know? Any suggestions on how to tell your therapist that you have these issues and kinda diagnosed yourself? lol!

postsub 2 years ago

hi Phoenix

I wish I knew the dosage this dr. used, but he says that ascorbic acid, dissolved in water or juice has the same or similar effect on opiod receptors in the brain that the shit we're trying to get off does. The whole effort was squashed by the pharmacutical companies when they came out with methadone, now repolaced by the suboxone. Also, he says that the same situation occurs that after detoxing with ascorbic acid, the expected effect of the drugs are no longer achievable. I've been crushing 2000 mg of Vitamin C tablets (make sure its from ascorbic acid) and drinking it every few hours. I'm only on day 8 without suboxone and i fear its getting progressively worse, but the main problem I'm experiencing is anxiety/depression and it smooths it out quite a bit. The pharmacist told me that high sustained doses of VC will cause kidney stones, but I don't think a realivelt short term course would hurt anything. And, ineterstingly enough, he stated it also killed the virus that causes Hepatitis A.

Phoenix54 2 years ago

Wow, that sounds crazy! I dont know what to believe. It sounds great though. Whatever works for you. Day 8 I can tell you that you have more time and more to come. I thought around day 8 was coming to an end and was all happy. I started feeling good and then the symptoms just started doing like a wave. A couple days in and then out. I have my days still. The people on here are cool. They have been off for a long time now. I hate knowing that the pain lasts a long time, its depressing. I just dont want to feel like this forever. I am def gonna have to be heavily medicated after this. Legally of course. My mental state will I fear ...never be the same. I dont even know who I am anymore, I started using drugs so quick in life that I wonder who I am. Odd shit I know. Its a scary new world out here knowing your crutch is gone. I wish you luck though.

vincentx90 2 years ago

Hi Phoneix54, can you contact me on email so we can discuss in more detail?

mailto: vincentx90@live.com

(and that goes to anyone interested in more info about the comments i made)

soberxone 2 years ago

After reading several comments, I got scared to quit suboxone. Why would I want to go through weeks of hell. I never really got clear cut drug abuse histories from some of the comments. I started using opioids recreationally because my father had slipped vertebral disks in his cervical, thoracic and lumbar spine. All I had to do was take one or two vicodins and mix it with a 5mg valium. Then it progressively went to norcos and valiums, to percocet and valiums, tylox, ms contin. However, I was a chipper (someone who controls their usage so addiction can be avoided). So I always thought my spine or backbone would not allow me become addicted. Then I moved out of my parents and realized I could not get any pills, so I started using heroin more on a regular basis. In highschool I blasted (shot up) recreationally in between using pills recreationally as a chipper. But once I got my own place I decided to blast brown while going to school. For eight months I was a hardcore junkie. I would blast up 6-8 times a day if I had strong brown, and more if I had weak brown. After eight months I realized that this is fucked up and I have to turn my life around. I saw a Dr. and got suboxone and took it and went through precipated withdrawal because I was too much of a pussy to take the heroin withdraw. I waited 5 days and decided to get off brown cold turkey. I cannot explain the extent of how bad that was, on the third day, I took an 8/2 sub and all my withdrawal symptoms went away. I started taking 3 8/2 subs a day and became really constipated and went down to 2 a day. Eventually I went down to 1 a day after 6 months of being on the suboxone. Right before I started withdrawaing I was taking 1 mg a day. I Exercise hard every day for the past 5 months to build up my endogenous opioids for this event I'm going through. On day 1 I had crazy chills and sweats, along with backache/tightness and diarrhea, but the worse thing is my sleep issue, but the ambien I was subscribed along with diphenhydramine sleep gels (probably not safe together) give me 4 hours of sleep per night but the restless legs suck so sleep in a bed by yourself because you will toss and turn. On day 2 I felt like shit. The chills were even stronger in the morning but I forced myself to exercise to help build up my endorphins as well in day 1 (this is hard to do but you have to push yourself). After I took a shower I felt way better though and the rest of the day I only experienced chills 7 or 8 times later that day, along with back tightness. Going to sleep was the same as the first night, about 4 hours. Woke up on day three and no chills, no back tightness, just really tired (probably from the sleep meds) but after they wore off, I felt good, but still have periods of weakness where I have to sit down. The only other thing I have is diarrhea, but I think all of us are sensitized to that (if not take immodium before you eat). Another thing I read is how people lose weight because of a lack of an appetite, but I'm eating like an African kid with a fly on my eye. My appetite has come back and it's great. So I'm about to go on to my 89th hour after my last 1 mg dose of suboxone and I have 0% chills, 0% sweats, No back tightness, 0% restless legs because they usually start acting up by this time. I just hope get more than 4 hours of sleep tonight because I'm tired as shit right now. The most important thing to do before you start to withdraw from suboxone is exercise, exercise, exercise!!!!! It will help. And continue to exercise while you are withdrawing. Push yourselves. Hold your nuts. This ain't shit compared to heroin withdrawal. Heroin withdrawal made a bitch out of me. Good Luck and try to take this info to heart because it will help, and don't read into all these people's experiences because by exercising I've increased my metabolism, which shortens the half life of suboxone from 37 hours (mean) to 20 hrs (minimum)

soberxone 2 years ago

Woke up after six hours of sleep. I only took 1-10 mg ambien and 1-50 mg diphenhydramine. Felt good and played basketball for about an hour this morning. My legs felt good and the heavy feeling went away, but my shot is all fucked up because my arms are kind of weak. As long as I get my target heart rate for 30 mins I'm fine. Took a shower and ate some ribs and okras, and my shit did not come out my ass right away, so my diarrhea is gone. Then at 2 pm I actually took a nap until 4 without sleeping pills!! When I woke up I felt sober for the first time in two years. I can't explain it, but my head felt incredibly clear of drugs and that kind of nasty shit (you know what I mean?). The rest of the day I felt awesome with so much energy.

I was talking to a friend of mine who currently is on methadone about withdrawal, and he always tells me that the hardest part of getting off opiates or any drug is the period after the physical withdraw stops. How do you occupy your time? If you don't then it's tough. Think of it like Brett Favre and Michael Jordan. They retired and came out of retirement numerous times because they had to fill a void in their lives which was playing professional sports. If it's hard to stop playing sports, then you know it's harder to quit heroin, alcohol, meth, pills or whatever because I quit football in middle school and I could care less. My friend said that filling that void is important. He's right. There are so many triggers that make you think about using the drug (such as looking at your bathroom sink, medicine cabinet etc...) and you are going to have to disconnect those things with your old habit. One of my worse triggers is seeing John Travolta blasting in "Pulp Fiction" and Leonardo Dicaprio in "Basketball Diaries" talking about the ritual with another junkie of cooking up some brown. My friend said NA meetings help.

If anyone is thinking of quitting suboxone and wants to ask specific questions of the withdraw, just ask and I'll try my best to help. Late.

vincentx90 2 years ago

Phoenix,

Yes, tell your therapist you have self-diagnosed yourself by all means. Many, many people self-diagnose aspergers/autism spectrum stuff. But, first of all, try going to an aspergers/autism web forum and/or chatroom (google chatautism) or see link: http://www.aspiesforfreedom.com/showthread.php?tid and click on the chatroom link at the top of the page. Another asperger (aspie for short) place on the web is called wrongplanet.

Chatting to other people with aspergers/ASD helps you to confirm or otherwise your self-diagnosis and thus gives you the confidence to then tell doctors/therapists about it. It 'takes one to know one' as they say and this is why going on such chatrooms/forums is so useful because after a short while it is pretty easy to find out what 'autistic traits' you share with other people. Also, there is quite a lot of asperger stuff on youtube which can be interesting.

Learning about my diagnosis and thus my strengths and weaknesses has enabled me to stay clean and strengthened my resolve to quit opiates in the first place. I'm on day 5 of week 10 since my last subutex dose and things are beginning to get a little easier :)

All the stuff I have read on this website has been hugely encouraging and/or useful to me. Before reading it, I thought i must be the only person having such a bad WD from subutex because the doctor was so ignorant. Just knowing that what I am going through is pretty much par for the course was and still is a massive weight off my shoulders.

I have massive respect for everyone struggling with opiate addiction and/or withdrawals. Opiates kill physical and emotional pain but they also kill any pleasure you may get out of life. I'd rather feel the pain because the pleasure and beauty that is in this world is worth having. I remember looking at an idyllic countryside view while wasted on opiates and not thinking much of it. Months later, I was going through WDs but having moments of clarity and saw the same view, and my heart jumped at how beautiful it was, and I was reminded how I'd never been able to get pleasure from it when numbed on dope.

Withdrawals are f***ing nasty but the prize at the end of it is priceless and goes on for the rest of your days. I wish everyone the very best of luck with kicking the habit. Do whatever it takes to distract yourself from those screwed up thoughts. I have a little car and did quite a few 300 mile day trips just because driving forced me to concentrate and not think about how ill i was mentally and physically.

vincentx90 2 years ago

Soberxone,

I'm glad to hear your withdrawals are 'not too bad' (relatively speaking). It just goes to show how different individual experiences can be. Although, for most of us, it seems the bupe WDs are more intense, far longer lasting (weeks, months), don't fully kick in until 3 or 4 days after the last dose and coupled with a cripplingly high level of anxiety.

My anxiety has been so chronic that it has had me housebound on most days. Admittedly, nervousness is something I have always struggled with as a natural predisposition, so the WDs are just exaggerating a pre-existing condition. Withdrawing from opiates (subs atm) screwed me so hard that I even spent 2 weeks in a psychiatric hospital as my nervous system pushed me over the edge and I became a danger to myself. Bear in mind I live alone, had noone to talk to, no company, having cut off all the bad contacts I'd made in this town, for weeks.

You were asking about drug abuse histories suberxone. I started out abusing alcohol at about 12yo. From 14yo I was smoking a lot of weed, doing some acid and speed. I quit drugs when I was 17yo but after some bad bullying at work I hit the bottle and, as I was working in an operating theatre at a hospital, I had access to various opioids, anaesthetic drugs, etc... I left that job about 18yo and continued abusing every drug I could get my hands on but opiates were always my favourite and remained so for the best part of 20 years. And, of course, it was the opiates that caused the real problems when it came to wanting to be clean. Some people say withdrawing from benzos is worse than heroin/opiates, f***ing balls, benzo withdraw was a f***ing walk in the park compared to this and my valium habit was 150-300mg a day.

soberxone 2 years ago

Vince,

You've been on opiates for a long time. I'm glad I've never had to go through this lifestyle for that long. My adolescent years sound the same as yours. I've done every drug by the time I was 18.

Today's day 6 off the subs and I'm just wishing I could sleep normal. I don't have chills, restless legs or anxiety, I just feel tired because I can't sleep like I want to. I don't have the "heavy legs" feeling when you go into withdrawal, I just feel tired. I continue to run every morning for an hour. I haven't woken up feeling great yet, but after I exercise I feel great. For me the peak was at day 2, and day 4 all the chills, restless legs etc. stopped. I've never had predisposition to anxiety or stress, but I've always had sleep issues. Everyone's gotta have something wrong with them right?

I just have to say that the amount of valium you use to take in a day is pretty damn insane! Did you orally take it? I never took more than 40-50 mg a day, but I always took it with a hydrocodone or oxycodone, never by itself. Also, I want to say that I think my w/d's are far less intense than other people's from what I have read probably because I haven't been a true abuser of opiates for many years. I've been a chipper for years, but an addict starting a year and a half ago. I think that has a lot to do with the severity of the withdraw from suboxone. Late.

pinklily 2 years ago

Hello everyone, I am on methadone right now and have been for a little over two years. I have also been on it two other times and I noticed that it makes me sweat more and sleep a lot more.  Well now I have a two year old that doesn't let me sleep when I want to and makes me sweat soooo much.  It's getting to the point that I'm so miserable all the time that I am thinking about switching to suboxone.  My dad and my boyfriend are on it but I never have been, I took it once but got sicker instead of better.  I have always heard that suboxone is so much better than methadone but reading some of these comments(from the beginning) makes me wonder if that would be the right choice.  Has anyone ever experienced anything like this on methadone?  I am only on 50 mgs but I have to nap everyday or I get sick,nauseous, and really mean and the sweating is the worst part, it is SO BAD!! I'm wondering if there is anything I can do to help it not be so bad.  I am also taking Adderall and am not sure if that plays a role in my side effects, I know that the other times I was on methadone I was the same way but I'm not sure it was this bad. Any suggestions?http://hubpages.com/hub/Drug-Addiction-Information

Justoff 2 years ago

Does anyone have experience with short term use of subs? I have ta king Roxys and oxys for about 8 months, up to 100-300 dails by the end, depending on what i could afford. Went off two weeks ago and started taking the subs which i got on the street as well. Took one a day for 9 days, took last one on sat. Now starting to feel mild to moderate w/d's. This shit i have been reading for the last two hours has got me scared shitless... I am hoping with such a short term use the effects will not be so bad or so long. any thoughts?

Justoff 2 years ago

Does anyone have experience with short term use of subs? I have ta king Roxys and oxys for about 8 months, up to 100-300 dails by the end, depending on what i could afford. Went off two weeks ago and started taking the subs which i got on the street as well. Took one a day for 9 days, took last one on sat. Now starting to feel mild to moderate w/d's. This shit i have been reading for the last two hours has got me scared shitless... I am hoping with such a short term use the effects will not be so bad or so long. any thoughts?

Justoff 2 years ago

I also Have to say, Fun Times... You are a Good Read! I mean that! you are funny, straight, compasionate and hard, and obviously very intelligent. Ever thought of putting any of this shit in writing? You have got one customer right here, I would be at Barnes and Noble tomorrow to pick up a hard copy. Your experience and advice has been helpful already, i saved some of your best stuff so i can go back and read and remind.

vincentx90 2 years ago

soberxone,

Yah, it was a pretty insane vallie habit lolz. I would think nothing of taking 10x10mg blue vallies in the morning (orally), 10 after lunch and 10 in the evening. Some days it'd just be a few less or even 5 three times a day if I was preoccupied with something constructive. Most I took in one day was 55x10mg. On top of those little blue pills I would drink 1/2 to 1 bottle of vodka or similar spirit. I would also drive a car like that. Obviously, I'd built up quite a tolerance but I still managed to get pretty mashed. And, as ever, I was using opiates albeit not so strong ones during the valliemoon (my honeymoon with valium).

Pinklily,

Yes, I had terrible sweats while on methadone as did a friend of mine. I spent days doing nothing but lying on the couch drowsy or sleeping. I put on loads of weight. I hated that stuff. I was on 140mg methadone a day and eventually detoxed down to 30mg and switched to subs but as you've read, then finishing longterm detox on subs was pretty bad anyway. Short term sub detox sounds like the best option from what I have read.

Justoff,

Short term use of subs for detox purposes, like for a week or two, seems to have (from what I've read) a pretty good result. The withdrawals you are feeling may well be PAWS (Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome) from the opiates you were using previously. Someone I knew who went cold turkey from a vicodin habit said he felt unwell for 2 months.

If I was you I wouldn't keep taking the subs for more than 14 days and always take the absolute smallest dose you possibly can. You may well still have to go through withdrawals from your oxies etc. but the subs would have got you over the initial acute phase. So it sounds like you will have to go through some pain and if you cover that up with subs then longterm you are setting yourself up for a nasty sub withdrawal that could well last for months.

Justoff 2 years ago

PAWS from what i have read, seems to be mostly physcologica, where i am having physical w/d effects as well, not the horror stories that i have read on this page, So far, but still on a wait and see basis. Got a couple hours of restless sleep last night, hard to tell if i am better, or same today. It has been two weeks since i have taken any opiates, cant imagine any of that still in my system. four days since last 8 mil dose of subs, after taking them for nine days, can only hope the worst is over, but not convinced.

Greenburger 2 years ago

Sorry it's been so long since I posted. Hope you all are doing well. I have been reading the comments and I came across Subisworsetome's and part of me agrees with him. Why go through 2-3 months of withdrawls when heroin only lasts a week. Most people go from dope to methadone to suboxone. i am trying the oposite. \\I was on suboxone for a year and a half. I got laid off and lost my insurance, so I tried to quit the suboxone by taperring. When I got down to a 16th a day, about a 1/2 mg., I noticed sever leg cramos and foot pain. Soon after I got called back to work. I couldn't work with the pain, and I quickly went back to taking suboxone. However, the foot pain never went away. I was up to 16mgs. a day, yet the cramps in my feet never subsided. So I switched to methadone, ad after a week of treatment, my feet are getting slightly better, but I am still in too much pain to work.

Has anyone else experienced effects simalar to these???

Fun Times 2 years ago

Justoff,

That's really cool of you. Thanks. I'm sure we all got stories. Honestly, I just didn't give a fuck. LOL. Really. I did pschyco shit. God.

This PAWS is a strange thing justoff. I mean fuck...I felt bad, then good, then bad, then just just fucking wiped out. After not using?!? C'mon...that aint even kinda cool. lol. awww fuck., all is well now. I think you're doing greaty and I'm sure you'll be fine...I aint just saying that. I was on H...sure...but long term use of Methadone, and suboxone (like 15 years) kinda freaked my system out. My body just quit making natural chemicals...dopmaine, opiates, serotonin, whatever...b/c I was constantly pumped this shit. No highs and lows...just numb. If you took maintenance opiates for substantially less than a decade and a half...you are cooler than cool.

At least with the oxy roxy deal...there had to be times that your body realized...fuck...need to make some fuckin chemicals here...feeling a bit fluish, lol. And if you were on subs, like 2 (two) other people I know...one from a weak Vicodin habit and one from a nasty raw dope habit...they are fine, and you my friend will only be getting better.

Take care justoff. You liked me kicked from 8 mg. Why? I was just stupid...I wanted to be clean now. I thought the better of it...afer a long fucked up time of bullshit...and kicked down to 2mg than 1mg. Much easier. If you are doing well...great...keep it up. If things get a bit dodgy...maybe kick a little easier. Taper...if you need to, without remorse. I know...nobody wants to throw clean days away. You lose that Gold Star for being on zero. Just see what can handle. And good luck. Thanks for the kind words.

vincentx90 2 years ago

Justoff,

Forewarned is forearmed. PAWS ain't just psychological although that is definitely part of it. I am still experiencing milder physical withdrawals and I'm on day 71 since my last subbie dose. My mind is still 'rattling' as well, although again in a less intense way than originally.

Also, Justoff, subutex/buprenorphine IS an opiate. So the last time you took an opiate is 4 days ago not two weeks (aka your last roxy oxy). Bupe is a very powerful opiate semi-synthesised from the active opiate alkaloid thebaine. Bupe has a very long half-life and can stay in the system for as much as 21 days. This is, perhaps, one of several reasons it is such a biotch to rattle off when used longterm.

8mg of bupe IS a lot of opiate receptor blockage and will cover a lot of w/d symptoms and maybe the fifth day will give you a truer indicator of what w/ds you are left with. So, ok, let's be hopeful and say that you very well might not have much w/d at all BUT be prepared that if the 'shit hits the fan' it doesn't catch you off-guard and cause a relapse. Instead, remember it does end and get a little better each day as you become 'human' again, with thoughts and feelings.

I sincerely wish that it does not get any harder for you with regards to w/d. I hope that your relatively short term physical addiction will mean less of a psychological struggle in the following months. All I am cautious to say is, 'be prepared for the worst' and that way anything else is a bonus and you won't be caught out.

I sound very 'doom and gloom' but it was reading about the difficulties other people had that gave me hope out of chaos and ignorance. If everyone here had had easy w/d from bupe then I think I would have given up as I would have assumed that I wasn't actually going through w/d at all, and instead was just barking mad. I'd have used that as an excuse to go back on opiates, self-medicating against an undiagnosed illness. Instead, I've been able to relate to what others have written here and this has informed me that it is indeed 'just' w/ds and thus it WILL END :) :D YAY!!! \m/

ciao for now

Fun Times:

lolz, yeh,. we all did some crazy shit when smacked out our brains, I can hardly believe how I actually used to behave sometimes, u gotta laugh! :D

brett 2 years ago

Well I'm on day 5 of Suboxone withdrawals. It's 8:10 a.m. on Thursday. The last time i slept was 9am-12pm on tuesday, because my sister gave me a xanax, which she is prescribed to. I have been off heroin for about 2 years, during which time i have been on suboxone. i started off at 24mg a day, and eventually got down to 4mg. I was laid off from my job about 4 months ago, so I had extra time on my hand. My doctor, who is awesome and totally understanding, recommended I get back to 8mg a day. I just got back from a month long road trip, which my doc gave me an ample supply of suboxone for. I started taking 12mg a day because 8 wasn't working for some reason. Anyways, long story short, I went from 12mg a day to zero for the past 5 days, and ive gotten a total of 12 hours of sleep. I could give a fuck less about the pains, the diarrhea, the cold sweats. I just want some sleep.

I was in jail for a month in December, and for the first 4 days, i had no suboxone, but slept good. i eventually was transferred to my permanent cell and was granted work release. so i would take suboxone while i was at work, and then sneak one into jail if i had the next day off and had to stay there.

What I'm trying to say is, "Ween yourself!!!" I just can't afford it anymore. I have no desire to go out and shoot dope. The only thing I have a desire for right now is sleep. I am soooo tired, but I am WAY too restless. Oh well, I know I'm better without the shit.

B

Justoff 2 years ago

Thanks everyone for the advice and experiences and kind words. I am def feeling a little better today, not much sleep last night, and still all the same w/d's but thy seem much milder today. Its day six with zero, and i still hoping all gets better from here. I followed everyones advice, got out of the house last night went to a friends game, walked the dog, moved around. Man it fucking hurt to do so, but also felt a little better for a while. Was really hoping it would crash me out, but not the case. Fun Times i jumped off 8mg out of pure ignorance of the drug, I REALLY I HAD NO INFO ON THIS SHIT, my friends all used it for days they were out or the town was dry, or had to pay bills and buying was not an option and neither was getting dope sick. So my dumb ass thought i could just stop the Roxy,oxy, hit the subs for a week and a half and bam i am clean! First two days i was patting myself on the back for a job well done, and even thinking well if i ever go back, what an easy way to quit. Then came day three and i was like what the fuck? Here they come! Fortunately relapse is not option for me right now, nor is any relief, as I removed myself from that entire scene. As in 1,300 miles removed!! I knew i had to get out to get off, i have not Dr's, no dealers, no "friends" where i am now to even get anything, not even a vic, so no where to turn right now even if i wanted to. And belive me i have wanted to!! Not to go back, just to feel ok, and get some sleep. Still just worried about how long this will last right now. I kicked a morphine habit about 8 years ago, cold turkey and yes it was bad, real bad, much worse than this, but by day 6 or 7 i was feeling good again, yes i am stupid. After mixing in the subs this time the w/d's have been easier in my case than going cold turkey off morph, but it is longer, and after all i have read here, and elswhere about the half life of this shit, i worry about the duration of pain i have left even if it is milder. Just gonna keep chugging along, trying to be strong, and hope for a light at the end of the tunnel somewhere. Thanks evryone!

vincentx90 2 years ago

Justoff,

GO JUSTOFF GO! Opiate detox is soooooo worth it regardless of the pain :)

:D

Greenburger 2 years ago

Well, I have been on the Methdone for almost two weeks now and it surprises me how quickly it wears off. With the Suboxone i could easily go two days without feeling and withdrawal at all. But with the methadone, by early evening it is apparent I am coming off something. That just shows how deeply Suboxone gets into you. I am going through with my plan to reverse detox. Methadone for four months, then heroin for as long as I can afford it, then I will inroll in a medical detox and end it all.

Is anyone else experienceing foot pain joint pain, that lingers on?????

vincentx90 2 years ago

Greenburger,

You think perhaps the foot/joint pain could be a seperate medical issue? Or perhaps because the dose of methadone you are on is not actually maintaining you?

Towards the end of my methadone 'treatment' I also found it didn't last 24hrs. Some people split the dose in two. I felt constantly ill on the methadone once my body had become tolerant to it.

Please don't stay on it for long if you can help it. Methadone, like subutex, is worse to come off when used longterm. I was so messed up trying to get off of it I ended up switching to subutex but once I stepped off it was just as bad.albeit slightly different. Slow tapering methadone was probably the worst experience of my life although I did try cold turkey from 140mg methadone and that resulted in 7 days of zero sleep, severe panic attacks and constant hypothermia type feeling while cold sweating by the bucket load. My body went into total shock. During the night I would beat my legs up and down, while sitting, for hours non-stop.

Oh the joy! ;)

Soberxone 2 years ago

Day 11 since my last dose of 1 mg suboxone. I saw my doctor yesterday on July, 4 (believe it or not) and told him I stopped taking suboxone. He asked me "Do you need anymore?".

I said "No. Just give me some ambien so I can sleep better".

"Ok", he said. Then he gave me two packs of accupuncture needles for me to stick on my ear to help suppress some withdrawal sympoms if I still had them. I looked at an ear model he had and asked him where to stick them, and he told me to stick it in the part of the ear that affects the heart and lungs (which is in the center).

There are two reasons why I have not used them. First, I don't have anymore withdrawal symptoms, I feel perfectly normal......Seriously!!. Secondly, I don't want to stick a needle in my ear.

I explained to my doctor what the withdrawals were like for me (stated above). He always told me there weren't withdrawals from suboxone as long as I exercised. Whatever dude! After 7-8 days I felt way better, and the past three days I've been a perfectly normal person. I wake up normal, and go to sleep and stay alseep. I don't have anymore symptoms at all.

To reflect back on this experience, I just want to say tapering down to 1 mg/day for a couple months helped me. If you've been taking suboxone for a while (in my case 13 months) there is no way in my opinion to avoid all the withdrawal symptoms. The good thing about suboxone withdrawal is that if you taper down like I did, it really is milder than heroin withdrawal. The only thing that sucked about my withdrawal was my lack of sleep. Before I started taking opiates I had sleep problems anyway, since I was in 2nd grade. So withdrawaing off suboxone exagerrated that for me. I also look back on the first and second day of withdrawal when I used to look at my cell phone calendar and think to myself that I should feel better by July 8. Now it's July 5 and it seems like the time just went by since June 24. I have a lot of energy and like I said, I feel good if not great.

I know there are people out there withdrawaing right now and reading other people's experiences thinking to themselves, "Holy shit, I'm fucked", but if I would have known how mild the withdrawal would have been for me, I never would have hesitated to stop suboxone. The other thing I don't have are prolonged withdrawal symptoms. I feel the same today as I felt 3 days ago. Late

vincentx90 2 years ago

soberxone,

that's great you doing so good an not having protracted withdrawals...

fancy a mind swap? ;)

i'm day 5 of week 11 and still getting better but also mentally (mostly) and some mild phsyical discomfort. The mental shit is the worst for me and i'm sure if it wasn't there i wouldn't even notice the very mild phsycial side...

But, I know it's withdrawals because everything gets milder by the day and my mental state is slowly coming back to earth...

Still, it's worth remembering for others that reading your story, we can see it ain't gonna neccessarily be a long ass haul through hell for everyone... Indeed, it really might not be that bad at all for some :) GrrrrrrrrEAT!!! :D

vincentx90 2 years ago

Oh yes, and the acupuncture....

I went along to a few auriclear (in the ear) acupuncture sessions that were supposed to help with cravings etc... Personally, i found it a total waste of time, and worse still was how much the f**king needles hurt sometimes when the trained acupuncturist was putting them in, seriously, I felt like I needed a painkiller... :P

But, hey, if it works for someone else, placebo or not, whatever it takes...

christopher 2 years ago

hi everyone,need some advice,i smoke £10 of h per day and like all of you want off the s--t i havent ever really tried after smoking for 2 years.Have wife,kids etc so need to sort life out.not to hot on computer either so could anyone with help or advice e mail me.thanks

chris

chriswales 2 years ago

Hi everyone,

need some advice I smoke £10 of h a day and like everyone here i have had enough been smoking for 2 years now,have a lovely wife and kids and really want off the s--t subutex have worked in the past but i have never really tried them long term,any help gratefully received

vincentx90 2 years ago

chriswales,

I really wouldn't recommend subbies long term, can you not do a short term subbie mediated detox? like 7-14 days?

The majority of people here have experienced a lot of long term w/ds from long term subbie use.

are you from wales? i'm in england, email me if you want at vincentx90@live.com

drummerjamie 2 years ago

Hey, I've been an "anything" opiate addict for a few years now. Before I went to see my doc, I was up to 5 oxy80's a day. He only does Sub detox for month, so I went for 6 8/2's a day for a week, to 4 a day for a week, to 2, to 1 (this week), to none a day. Now after reading this page, I'm freaked out! I'm a college student and can't afford to be all withdrawaled up for days! Is it really that bad, or will I be OK because I only used Sub for a month? Someone please give me some advice??? kmettthefrog@gmail.com

drummerjamie 2 years ago

Hey, I've been an "anything" opiate addict for a few years now. Before I went to see my doc, I was up to 5 oxy80's a day. He only does Sub detox for month, so I went for 6 8/2's a day for a week, to 4 a day for a week, to 2, to 1 (this week), to none a day. Now after reading this page, I'm freaked out! I'm a college student and can't afford to be all withdrawaled up for days! Is it really that bad, or will I be OK because I only used Sub for a month? Someone please give me some advice??? kmettthefrog@gmail.com

StayingSober 2 years ago

Hello everyone! I literally just spent the whole day reading everyone of these stories. I apperciate everyone for sharing. I too have been dealing with addiction for some time now. It all started with painkillers and led to a nasty herion addiction. Anyway for the past 2 years I've been taking suboxone. I've decided to take back my life and get off this drug. The past few months I've become very aware of how I'm not myself anymore. Don't think I've been myself for a long time. Anyway I've been trying to ween myself off suboxone. Like others I was unaware of the fact that you will go through withdrawal if you are on suboxone. I was convinced it was a wonder drug and i was cured from my herion habbit. Not so true. So this is probablly my third or fourth time attempting to quit. I would always get to day 5 and cave. My ex would supply me with his. (He was the one who introduced all this to me to begin with) Well I'm now in a new relationship and I have a 4 yr. to worry about and I don't want to depend on the orange pill the rest of my life. I have 1 8mg left. Any suggestions on how I should finish it. I've been taking about 1mg every other day for the past month. Sometimes more sometimes less. I really want to do this. I want to start right away. Any advice would help. Like I said I've been reading this all day. I found most of these post very helpful. It got a little hairy there for awhile. I'm glad you all worked out your differences. This should be a place for support. Thanks for listening and good luck to everyone dealing with addiction and withdrawal.

StayingSober 2 years ago

Hello everyone! I literally just spent the whole day reading everyone of these stories. I apperciate everyone for sharing. I too have been dealing with addiction for some time now. It all started with painkillers and led to a nasty herion addiction. Anyway for the past 2 years I've been taking suboxone. I've decided to take back my life and get off this drug. The past few months I've become very aware of how I'm not myself anymore. Don't think I've been myself for a long time. Anyway I've been trying to ween myself off suboxone. Like others I was unaware of the fact that you will go through withdrawal if you are on suboxone. I was convinced it was a wonder drug and i was cured from my herion habbit. Not so true. So this is probablly my third or fourth time attempting to quit. I would always get to day 5 and cave. My ex would supply me with his. (He was the one who introduced all this to me to begin with) Well I'm now in a new relationship and I have a 4 yr. to worry about and I don't want to depend on the orange pill the rest of my life. I have 1 8mg left. Any suggestions on how I should finish it. I've been taking about 1mg every other day for the past month. Sometimes more sometimes less. I really want to do this. I want to start right away. Any advice would help. Like I said I've been reading this all day. I found most of these post very helpful. It got a little hairy there for awhile. I'm glad you all worked out your differences. This should be a place for support. Thanks for listening and good luck to everyone dealing with addiction and withdrawal.

Fun Times 2 years ago

Staying sober...great fucking job!!! From a nasty H addiction to 1mg every other day is a miracle. I think every one who had a bad opiate addiction should realize that only other opiates 'cure' being sick. But I swear, at 1mg every other day you are there lady. DO NOT BE AFRAID AT ALL. I wasn't...I was simply determined that I was quitting and just as vital...that failure was not a possibility. I was done. But I didn't do nearly as well as you. You tapered to almost nothing already. I kicked from 8mg a day...for a wicked long time...then got smart and kicked from 1mg a day. You do half that? You're set.

I am so glad this site existed...I needed a place to vent with people who were doing what I was. But I swear...I came on this site after 72 days, maybe the last 40 or so on zero (I took 2mg than 1mg for like 2 weeks after the 8 zero debacle), and almost all the previous comments were fuckin horror stories. I didn't need to hear that shit. I came on feeling strong, and a lovely lady named Queenie really made me feel great. I'm very happy to still be in touch with her. This site can be a great thing. Take what you can and leave the stuff you think is bullshit behind. DON'T BE NERVOUS WOMAN, YOU ARE THERE. I tell everyone that when you quit...there's no room for being or feeling anything but STRONG AND HARD mentally. Stay fucking hard. And you'll be fine. Forget anything 'scary' shit you read. You wanna know the biggest truth: When you are done (and you basically are), the pain and discomfort go away...and you forget how bad you will ever feel. Stay sober...and you'll see. Pray to God if you believe, I know I do. And he keeps me strong. Good luck. Stay cool. Stay hard. People will be here for you, until you are feeling just fine. Should be soon.

Fun Times 2 years ago

Ohhhhhh...as an answer to your question: Keep taking 1mg a day, every other day. It really is a pretty soft kick from there. Just keep doing what you've already done. Honestly...don't think about anything 'bad', just focus on the fact that very soon...you are gonna be FREE. Use positive imagery. Clean isn't always easy, but fuck does it beat being addicted. That was hell.

vincentx90 2 years ago

Funtimes,

People have varied experiences coming off opiates. Just because you had a 'relatively' easier time coming off it doesn't give you the right to intimate that other peoples more harrowing withdrawals are bullshit.

I am very glad to hear that some folks will not have the same shit I went through myself. I doubt not that part of it for me is the fact I've been masking and running away from my true self for 20 years. The drug I stepped off happened to be subutex but could have been a number of others. I'm sure whatever substance I eventually went clean from would have caused me a lot of problems.

However, my posts are nothing but an honest reflection on what the experience has been like for me. And, from reading some of the other posts, I can see that I am not the only one to have had such an ordeal.

I DID need to 'hear that shit' about withdrawals because before coming here I thought I was the only person suffering like this. Reading about some other people with similar issues made me put it in perspective. I felt somewhat 'normalised' and it made me stronger. In the same way, when you have an undiagnosed illness causing you problems it is shit scary but just getting a diagnosis, after the initial shock, brings about it an ability to cope and come to terms with it.

Thank you to everyone who posted their shit scary stories. You helped me carry on and reminded me that it doesn't last forever. It is only a temporary 'illness'.

Oh, and for those who are freaked by some of the TRUE stories, REMEMBER that you might have a really easy time of it coming off subbies. It really is very different for every person. I've even known people to glide off methadone, with taper, without hardly a muscle ache and maybe one night of insomnia.

You might find it incredibly easy to withdraw from a low dose of subs. If you don't, then at least the 'shit scary' stories will remind you that you are not alone and most importantly that it WILL and DOES END!

Personally, I'm glad it has hurt so much because it has put me off ever wanting to play games with the opiate monkey ever again. Opiates are f**king nasty as a habit. Why did I ever go there in the first place... Oh yes... I remember now.... LOLz :D

BUT, it just ain't worth the hassle....

vincentx90 2 years ago

Funtimes,

People have varied experiences coming off opiates. Just because you had a 'relatively' easier time coming off it doesn't give you the right to intimate that other peoples more harrowing withdrawals are bullshit.

I am very glad to hear that some folks will not have the same shit I went through myself. I doubt not that part of it for me is the fact I've been masking and running away from my true self for 20 years. The drug I stepped off happened to be subutex but could have been a number of others. I'm sure whatever substance I eventually went clean from would have caused me a lot of problems.

However, my posts are nothing but an honest reflection on what the experience has been like for me. And, from reading some of the other posts, I can see that I am not the only one to have had such an ordeal.

I DID need to 'hear that shit' about withdrawals because before coming here I thought I was the only person suffering like this. Reading about some other people with similar issues made me put it in perspective. I felt somewhat 'normalised' and it made me stronger. In the same way, when you have an undiagnosed illness causing you problems it is shit scary but just getting a diagnosis, after the initial shock, brings about it an ability to cope and come to terms with it.

Thank you to everyone who posted their shit scary stories. You helped me carry on and reminded me that it doesn't last forever. It is only a temporary 'illness'.

Oh, and for those who are freaked by some of the TRUE stories, REMEMBER that you might have a really easy time of it coming off subbies. It really is very different for every person. I've even known people to glide off methadone, with taper, without hardly a muscle ache and maybe one night of insomnia.

You might find it incredibly easy to withdraw from a low dose of subs. If you don't, then at least the 'shit scary' stories will remind you that you are not alone and most importantly that it WILL and DOES END!

Personally, I'm glad it has hurt so much because it has put me off ever wanting to play games with the opiate monkey ever again. Opiates are f**king nasty as a habit. Why did I ever go there in the first place... Oh yes... I remember now.... LOLz :D

BUT, it just ain't worth the hassle....

janel79 2 years ago

Hi all. I am on day 2 w/o Suboxone. Not because I'm tapering but because I ran out and my doc is on vacation. I can honestly say the wd's SUCK! He has me on 32mg/daily and to just stop cold turkey is really f***ing painful. I slept 25 minutes last night. The panicky, jittery, feelings along with the chills and sweats...wouldn't recommend anyone doing it this way. My doc won't be back til monday 7/13. but they couldn't fit me in til 7/15. So I get to 'enjoy' this horrid experience for another week. Wish I didn't have to.

Staying Sober 2 years ago

Fun Times

Thank you for your support. I know it will be worth it. I'm actually excited to get it over with. obviously I'm not looking forward to being sick but I will get through this. Everyones stories scrare me but it's also nice to know that you will get through it. I've been through Heroin withdrawal before. I get cold turkey after a 2 year $100 day habit. That my friends SUCKED!! So if I can get through that I know I can get through this. Anyway thanks again for the support and I will be letting everyone know how it goes. I'm 30+hrs. from my last does that was less then 1 mg. Nothing too terrible right night. Just a little anxious.

Vincentx90

I don't think Fun Times takes anyones journey lightly and if you read older posts you wil see he in fact did not have it easy. I think he is just telling me to have a positive attitude about and to not be afriad. I can see where you are coming from. But I truly think you misunderstood Fun Times intentions. Hope you are doing well. WHere are you at in your recovery??

Well I hope everyone has a good day. Keep your heads up!!

Staying Sober 2 years ago

So I'm pretty pumped about what I'm attempting to do. I'm just a bit nervous over a few things. I have a 4 yr old and I'm a stay at home mom. I really don't want her to see me suffering and I want to be able to take care of her. I already feel terrible for the way I am now. I'm so not present. I feel nothing anymore. I can't have fun with her and that kills me. I just go through the motions. Also I have nothing to help with the sleeping. I don't have insurance. I know the OTC stuff probably won't work. No one around me knows I'm going through this. So I really need support from strangers. The good news is I have NO way to relapse. I moved to a new area and don;t know where toget anything and my sub supplier won't supply anymore. (EX BF don't talk to him) I know I just need to stop worryiing and do it and get it over with.

I look forward to feeling again. I used to be a funny person. I used to have so many friends. I fake everything now. I don't enjoy anything. I literally walk around life like a zombie right now. I want it all to end!! I want to play with my daughter and laugh and really mean it. I want to want to do stuff with friends and family. I'm only 29 and I have so much more life to live.

Zombie76 2 years ago

I have been abusing opiates for 10 years. Recently just relapsed after about a year and half sober. Amazing how our mind lets us forget how bad this shit really was. I started doing Oxy contin again and anyother opiate I could find when I couldn't afford the the oxy's. Well I hit that bottom much more quickly then it took last time only 5 months after relapsing. I went to the clinic today and got on suboxone and I have been on it before and last time it was an 18 day withdrawal compared to the 5 day on oxy but I can't function at work nor can I take time off to do it. So instead of staying long term I paid the clinic for a week and I am going to take for a week and during that week gradually take smaller dose. I am getting back into the meetings too because that was the only way I stayed sober for the time I did was being around sober people who knew what it was like to be an addict and having someone to talk to and being able to hang out with people who dont' use. I also use the thomas receipe and have used it many times before with success but you really need to be able to do nothilng for a week and I can't do that at this point. So I will take suboxne on taper schedule for a week and excersise take vitamins and try to do this. This board has been great.

vincentx90 2 years ago

staying sober:

ty for your words, i'm sure you are right :)

I really do wish you the best of luck in stepping off subbies. It's exactly 12 weeks for me since my last subbie dose and I am actually starting to feel like a human being again. Oh boy! It is worth every bit of pain to get to this point. I cannot stress enough just how good it is to start feeling human again and returning to your old self. It takes time, but it really does happen! :)

I so want you to experience it aswell Staying Sober. Do whatever it takes to get through w/ds. Just keep on going no matter what because it starts to get a little better every day. Those feelings and emotions start to come back online gradually.

zombie:

good luck with the 1 week detox, I'm sure you will cope with it just fine :)

vincentx90 2 years ago

janel79

:( sorry to hear about you having a rough time stepping off 32mg sub a day, that's quite a jump, it's really powerful stuff...

maybe next time try cutting 8s into 4mg and taking less than 32mg a day and thus building up an emergency supply, i mean.... it's hard to notice much difference dropping from 32mg to 28mg or even 16mg for a day or two.

just an idea.... wish you all the best.... i'll pray for you even...

Staying Sober 2 years ago

Vincentx90

Thank you for your encouragement!

So I got interrupted when I was writing before so I'm back. I hope I don't annoy anyone I'm sure I'll be posting alot. It really helps me to get stuff off my chest and like I said no one knows I'm going through this. I've decided I'm not going to take sub again unless necessary. I've been clean for almost 40hrs. I'm going to try to make it. I read in the previous posts that people "cheated" a little around the 8-9 day mark. I have 1 8mg left and I will use only for emergency. I'm really prepared for this. (at least I think).

I gave myself some rules. I will wake up every morning(not that I'll be sleeping alot) take shower and get ready for the day. Not just though on sweats and pull hair back but try to make myself look nice. Cause it's so true that if you look good you feel good. I wil get out and try to walk with my daughter. I don't have a car to myself so I'm going to try to walk alot. I refuse to let myself just lay around and feel sorry for myself. I'm going to force myself to eat at least 3 times a day. Take my vitamins. I might try that 7-day detox stuff. It can't hurt right?? I wil force myself to drink 8 glasses of H20. I'm a smoker but when I don't take sub I feel the need to smoke a lot less so who knows maybe I can quit that too. Now I'm pushing it. I will take another long walk at night then a hot bath then try to sleep. This of course all sounds easy now. We'll see tomorrow. I figured if I have a plan it might help. I also plan to journal I hear that helps alot. I will also be on here a ton I'm sure. Anyway that's my plan. Wish me luck!

Redeemed 2 years ago

It has been 187 hours since my last subox. No taper - I just tossed myself into the fire after taking my last 16mg / day dose.

It amazes me how I refuse to learn. I have been down this road six times now. I cleaned up but due to the fact that the subox wasnt providing any hint of euphoria I figured cutting it out to be cake. I couldn't be more wrong!

This stuff is incredibly powerful. Apparently I took it for long enough for my brain to shut off the gaba valve - I have slept 6 hours in 8 days. I swear I am insane for doing this again, especially while working 50 hrs/week.

I do, however have hope and resolve. I refuse to call my doctor. I know what would immediately relieve this agony but that would simply reset to clock. Instead I am embracing this every pain, and asking God to continue to provide the strength to beat this demon within me.

I hope that my experience can help others. Taper! Dont fly off the cliff with the wreckless abandon I did. It is not a joke. The wd is of the same varient of any other opiate - only more drawn out. It is the devil, and the devil will do anything to get you back in his company. Fight it! Stand and feel your worth and whatever you do dont stop.

I wont.

Godspeed to all of you strangers that share my pain.

ZOMBIE76 2 years ago

Alrigh guys on day 2 of taper schedule. Yesterday I took 4 mgs. Today I took 2 and I haven't felt any withdrawls. I went to the clinic and they gave me a 8 mg pill and I was told to take it all but I did some hand tricks and acted like I took it and then when I got to work just took 2 MG. So now I have 6 MG left and I am going to try and stretch that for 4 more days. Again I am coming off of OXy contin and only want to use suboxone as little as possible as I used suboxne before for three months and it took 18 days to detox. Last night went to the gym and did a light workout and ran a little but stayed in sauna for thirty minutes and walked out drenched. Sweating is key. I also am following the Thomas Receipe which has worked wonders for me in the past. Then I went to a meeting and felt good when I left.

Staying Sober: I have done this many times only once with Suboxone but many times with other opiates. The key is sweating and drinking lots of water. If you can get to a sauna or really hot bath it will work wonders. You have to flush this stuff out of your system. I also have a four year old daughter and can't wait till I am completely sober and I wake up in the morning when she does and feel normal, watch some cartoons and hang out. Can't wait to be normal. It will come we just have to hang it there it will help.

Staying Sober 2 years ago

Well I'm half way through my 2nd day. I feel ok. I have the sweats and anxiety but that's it so far. I'm trying to have a positive attitute by telling myself that hey I'm going to be fine. I won't even feel those withdrawal symtoms. I know I'm bound to feel something, I'm just praying it will go easy on me. But you know what I got myself into this situation and if it takes a couple months to feel ok then it will be worth it. After all it took me 7 years to destroy my body it's going to take it awhile to get it back but I've never been more determined to do it. I'm still in the very early early stages but I will get through this. I really do look to this site as a source of support so I appericate everyone on here and sharing your stories really helps me. Thank you!

I'll be checking in soon and look forward to more posts. Stay healthy everyone out there and keep up the good work with your recovery.

Staying Sober 2 years ago

Well I'm half way through my 2nd day. I feel ok. I have the sweats and anxiety but that's it so far. I'm trying to have a positive attitute by telling myself that hey I'm going to be fine. I won't even feel those withdrawal symtoms. I know I'm bound to feel something, I'm just praying it will go easy on me. But you know what I got myself into this situation and if it takes a couple months to feel ok then it will be worth it. After all it took me 7 years to destroy my body it's going to take it awhile to get it back but I've never been more determined to do it. I'm still in the very early early stages but I will get through this. I really do look to this site as a source of support so I appericate everyone on here and sharing your stories really helps me. Thank you!

I'll be checking in soon and look forward to more posts. Stay healthy everyone out there and keep up the good work with your recovery.

vincentx90 2 years ago

Staying sober,

great to hear your conviction and committment to getting through this and acceptance of whatever it might throw at you, with that attitude you will surely make it through :)

I'm still making steady progress, things are starting to fall back into place, I'm re-learning who I am, I've become a stranger to myself over the years, is a weird experience, sometimes uncomfortable, sometimes frightening, but sometimes very exciting, and ALWAYS worth every ounce of pain :) I wouldn't change sobriety and freedom from opiates for the world!

vincentx90 2 years ago

Oh, and just for reference, I'm in day 2 of week 12 since stepping off subbies :P

About to Jump 2 years ago

So I'm About to do it! I'm jumping very soon. I've been tappering myself down over the past month. I take less then 1mg ever 36 hrs. I have 4mg left to my name. I used to be a heroin addict and have been on sub for 2 yrs. I will no longer be able to get sub but that's ok I don't want anymore. I'm nervous and excited at the same time. I just haven't heard to many success stories of people getting off the suboxone. Withdrawal from heroin was awful but it was done with in a week. I'm not sure if I can be sick for months. I guess I have no choice. So I'm jumping. Here goes....

vincentx90 2 years ago

About to jump:

good luck with that mate, hope all goes well :)

vincentx90 2 years ago

day 4 of week 12, half good half bad, feeling bad now, 6pm, mind still rattling, when the f**k will this end? geeeeeeeeeez :(

stay the f**k away from buprenorphine, this stuff is f**king evil

vincentx90 2 years ago

am currenlty listening to Jayson Green's 'looking for', awesome trance track, at an obscenely high volume ;) that'll blow the rattle into submission for a bit :D

brian68 2 years ago

I am currently on day 24 of sub wd. My Doc started me on 16mg a day from a Percocet habit and I quickly was able to taper to about 4mg daily for about 6months. Then since Jan. I' tapered to about 1 mg a day until I jumped off. The withdrawal was brutal as expected but the lingering effects are crazy. My mind still races and anxiety and sleep problems are rough. That being said; I hope I never have to use that crutch again because it is BULLSHIT. DON"T TAKE IT

vincentx90 2 years ago

Brian68,

I know EXACTLY where you are coming from on this...

The racing thoughts, poor sleep and high levels of anxiety are the worst shit to deal with. It just goes on and on, day after day, even though mine are milder now it is still an issue driving me crazy most of the time and I'm on day 81... but it does get steadily milder even though it is f**king almost unbearable.

sub is one twisted f**king drug, it should be taken off the market and banned except for the 7 day (or so) fast detox from short acting opiates.

brian68 2 years ago

While I am sure all these things(racing mind, anxiety and sleeplessness) are withdrawals; I do think that if you can keep yourself busy(NA meetings, phone calls, NA meetings etc...)you CAN make it. These freaking DRUGS have ruled us all for too long! FUCK THEM! GET HELP! TALK TO SOMEONE who has been in your shoes. It's hard work but the choice is YOURS Clean or DEAD

Redeemed 2 years ago

Now that my suboxone W/D has faded from a thundering roar to nearly a whisper I want to write this in order to provide a possible hope for those reading within my age, usage, and physiological demographic that are going through the same thing. This forum is filled with horror stories outlining months of debilitating symptoms - my story is simply not the case, so here goes:

War stories are absolutely pointless to this channel (and in general - wow, you went through your entire weeks paycheck worth of crack two minutes after it was issued to you, impressive). Rather, I am going to provide the vitals so that somebody reading may have a comparative basis to use to guage their progress through the rollercoaster of withdrawal.

I abused opiates of the synthetic variety for a number of years 'recreationally' before becoming fully-blown addicted two years ago. By this I mean that it was an all-day-every-day affair. The progression of my chemical romance is probably like most you've heard before. When Lortabs couldn't cut it I moved to Percoden. From Percoden to Hydros and/or O.C. - from O.C. to Fentanyl and finally Dope for economic purposes.

By the time I entered rehab I had a $200-500/day habit. The clinical staff agreed that I was an advanced case and would require methodone maintanence which I vehemently opposed. Instead they put me on suboxone, which I knew nothing about at the time but was assured that it was far easier to kick than any full-agonist, including methadone.

I stayed on subox for 6 months until 12 days ago when I took the gloves off to kick. If I can change anything about what I went through I would have tapered. My addict-mind assured me that subox was nothing since I couldn't feel any sort of euphoria, even at 32mg/day. Needless to say I was wrong and I felt the grueling effects of W/D after jumping of the cliff from 16/mg.

For me the withdrawal was nearly the same as any full agonist. If it didnt kick quite as hard as H, it sure was close. I had every symptom under the sun, with the worse being insomnia. I went 8 days on little more than an hour or two of sleep a night. All the while I was working and hiding my condition under fake smiles and forced interests.

Now so far I sound pretty much like everybody else on this board. What I came to say is this: yes, it sucks - so prepare your self for the shit-show that is about to become your life. But remember that it is only temporary. By day 12 (yesterday) I was 90%, and I feel even slightly better than that today. I am a 26 year old male, 6 ft/165 lbs with a very fast metabolic rate, so I do think it may have been easier on me then some.

Still, I dont want anybody to be discouraged. I have a very difficult time believing some of the posts that say day 150+ was so tough due to W/D. I am sure you had a hard day, but that was not because of any sort of suboxone withdrawal. In fact, it is fully eliminated and undetectable in the body within 150 hours (metabolites and all).

I guess my message here is to stay strong, know there is an end in sight to all of the pain that you are going through - and dont give up. I didnt and I can tell you right now - for every moment I wanted to quit I cursed myself for my poor decisions and this fueled my desire to be free. I screamed at my past. I had it out with myself for almost two weeks and I feel much, much better now for going through it.

Make up your mind to conquer your demons, or forever be a slave.

Godspeed

vincentx90 2 years ago

Redeemed,

That's great stuff to hear. However, you have no right to shit on other people's stories that have come from their heart and soul. You certainly have absolutely no right to infer that some stories (e.g. day 150 - bad), are not true.

Everybody has the right to tell their story as it is for them on this page.

I'm delighted you have recovered so well but it is very different for all of us. Some of us are suffering for a lot longer. The half-life of subs is only a small part of the story. Once the drug is out of the system the brain still has to do a lot of re-wiring due to those dummy opiate receptors being present.

You feel free to tell your story on this site, don't shit on other peoples freedom to do the same, regardless of the nature of their experience.

Be encouraging, not defamating.

Your words suggest that people should keep quiet if they are having a really rough time for weeks and even months. What a crazy, ridiculous thought! The very point is so that people can VENT, be honest and upfront about their experience. Share their experiences with others, some of whom will be having a similarly bad time and others not so bad.

I am on the verge of giving up with posting here because I am SICK AND TIRED of assholes trying to tell us that because they had an 'easy' time of it that our experiences mean shit. For those of you that found it comparatively easy, I'm glad for you but it gives you no right to question the validity of other peoples experiences. Doing that is character assassination and downright nasty.

I have to question your motives. Do you have a problem that it was MUCH harder for some than others? Do you feel you are lacking something because you just didn't suffer as much? If so, get a fucking life and leave the rest of us alone. Go bully someone else! People here need support NOT criticism.

Go gain some empathy.

Brian68:

thanx for the encouraging words :)

Redeemed 2 years ago

First sentence:

..."I want to write this in order to provide a possible hope for those reading within my age, usage, and physiological demographic that are going through the same thing."

My recovery went so well?

..."For me the withdrawal was nearly the same as any full agonist. If it didnt kick quite as hard as H, it sure was close."

Be encouraging, not defamating.

..."I guess my message here is to stay strong, know there is an end in sight to all of the pain that you are going through - and dont give up."

Your words suggest that people should keep quiet if they are having a really rough time for weeks and even months

Now for that I simply don't have a response (I couldnt find anywhere in my post that referenced people remaining quiet.)

Best of luck with all of your recoveries! I wish you the best, especially my friend Vinnie!

Redeemed 2 years ago

Idiot.

vincentx90 2 years ago

a very bipolar response Redeemed...

one minute "best of luck... especially my friend Vinnie!"

the next... "idiot"

hahahahahaha

;)

Matt 2 years ago

Hey all. I want to share my experience strength and hope with those going through suboxone withdrawal. I am in day 16 completely off after about a year and a half on. I was down to 8mg per day for about 4 months prior to tapering. I tapered down to 0 in 2 weeks, spread out evenly by dropping 2mg per day. My experience is that the taper was fairly painless, the only real painful step was going to 0. The first night without was tough. Restless legs, couldn't sleep, sweating, cold, tired, sneezing, yawning, and all the symptoms shown on the top of this page. I was on Ambian for 10 days (it is an addictive drug no matter what the commercials say, so be careful with this) and it did help somewhat. Plus I had that anxiety you feel in the pit of your stomach. It was tough.

The restless legs went away quickly, but all the other symptoms remained for several days. I am actively in recovery, and the only medicine I found for the withdrawal was within the rooms of AA. I hit 3 to 4 meetings per day, talked with my sponsor, continued working on my steps (I am working step 8 right now), prayed every day and worked with other alcoholics and addicts as best I could. Spent a lot of time talking with others in the program and it helped me a lot.

I started feeling some relief after 8 to 9 days, but only a little. Sleeping is still tough, but better. Today is the first real day I have felt substantially better (day 16). In 16 days I hit over 40 meetings. I know we all can't do that, but it worked for me. Got me through to today and thats all I can ask for. I plan on doing it again tomorrow, but right now it's just about today.

It's a scary thing no doubt about it. And it's hard. Each of us has our own history and our own path through this process, but I will make one promise, the more active you are in your recovery, the faster and easier this will be. For those not in the program, I hope you give it a try. I read almost every post and found a consistent idea, and it is this, those in active recovery and working the program are getting through this faster and easier than those that are not. The posts that say it has taken months to get over it don't seem to mention the program, and many that have worked through this thing quicker often talk about working the program. I'm not saying every post was this way, but it was common among many.

Hang in there and don't look back and don't look forward. Deal with today and right now by not isolating, getting into a meeting (or several), read the big book, share with others, pray to a God of your understanding, and try to do the next right thing. It's easy to sit and veg getting off this stuff, but muster all the power you can to get up, and take action against this thing. It sounds corny and overplayed, but it works.

The Big Book says we sought an easier softer way to recovery. Many of us think that suboxone is the easier softer way. It isn't. It can be an effective tool to get us off the other crap and get into the program and gain the spiritual tools necessary to deal with the pain when it comes when you get off suboxone.

That is my experience and I hope it helps someone. I am in day 16 and still have some work to do yet, but I feel better than I did on day 5 thats for sure. Day 5, 6, and 7 were very tough, but got better after that, a little at a time with the help of lots of meetings and action in my program. I see light at the end of the tunnel, but not quite there yet.

Keep coming back.

vincentx90 2 years ago

Hi Matt,

That's great you are doing so well and yes no doubt going to the AA type meetings has helped you enormously.

I am keeping as active as I can. I'm in the process of moving to a new location and that has nore than enough work involved in it. Shifting all my stuff, finalising bills etc. etc.

I never had any success with AA/NA. I have asperger syndrome and do not function well in groups (can in fact make me feel a whole lot worse and be a real disaster). It's a syndrome that fucks up my social skills and makes it almost impossible for me to communicate to some people and worseso in a group setting.

Fortunately I'm staying with friends who understand my curious personality and treat me well. I have work I do bits of in the garden, manual labour.

I'm getting better every day but still suffering what is, for me, some intolerable withdrawals mainly in that my mind feels like it doesn't belong to me (my body as well), feels so uncomfortable, as if my mind is outside of my head and a real struggle to get it to work. I am still getting a lot of confusion.

At times I've just given in and taken a few sleeping pills and/or alcohol to bring down that anxiety level and enable me to think clearly for a while. I've also tried uppers (not often) just to get me more active for a day and distract me from the long haul symptoms.

I've now asked my doctor to prescribe more sleeping pills and some prozac to see if that will give me a bit more energy and lessen the anxiety.

Anyone else found antidepressants helfpul in the later stages of recovery?

I took it only like an hour a go so will be a while to see if it helps at all...

vince

vincentx90 2 years ago

Oh, and yes, having asperger syndrome or any autistic spectrum disorder (like ADHD) might well make the recovery process a lot harder than for someone neurotypical (NT, not on the autistic spectrum).

We tend to be extremely sensitive people and notice very fine detail in things. This could well mean that moderate withdrawals feel like intense withdrawals and so on... This is only an idea, not proven fact, but I've read a few stories on here that seem to relate to the ASD type person who is battling not only opiate addiction but also an underlying condition that is already causing a high level of anxiety and possibly many other problems.

The withdrawals exaggerate all the worst aspects of being on the autistic spectrum. Being on opiates, before tolerance kicks in, tends to suppress a lot of problematic autistic traits, hence why it turned into my drug of choice. I was able to socialise without anxiety, felt more empathy for people, calmer and content with myself etc.. These are insanely addictive qualiities regardless of the very addictive high that one can get before too much dependence kicks in.

I've noticed that 'some' people addictied to opiates do indeed have some kind of underlying condition that was never resolved/helped and that they then discovered opiates and at first it was a 'miracle cure' for overcoming whatever their issues were.

So quitting opiates and returning to who you were before can actually be quite terrifying when you know that you had serious problems to deal with in the first place and that these will resurface upon withdrawal.

It was only getting my aspergers diagnosis that gave me the confidence to quit opiates forever. I was no longer running away from myself, scared of this undiagnosed condition that was causing me so much hurt, grief and isolation in my life for 20 years.

If you have any kind of underlying issues then I must urge you to seek help for them and to find a correct diagnosis. Nothing is scarier than not knowing what your diagnosis is while being very aware you have a problem. This will invariably make you stronger in your quest to be opiate free.

Just thought I should share in the vain hope it might help at least one person in this world (and therefore worth it).

vince

Matt 2 years ago

My doc did prescribe Remeron to help with sleep and appetite, as well as some of the anxiety. It has been very effective, but I am being cautious with it. With my personality, I'd get addicted to aspirin if I wasn't careful, which is where my program helps. This is a great forum. You may want to try some online AA meetings. I know some folks who have found some help there. It's all about honesty, open mindedness, and willingness. I've tried every possible "cure" for my disease of addiction, every easier softer way, and AA is the only thing that has worked one day at a time. In this age, we have tons of options and ways to get into the fellowship and to get involved in the process of recovery. I hope everyone finds what works for them. There will always be stuff that comes up, it's how we deal with it that matters.

Stay strong and stay sober today.

betty 2 years ago

on day 8 no subs when does this anxiety start to back off im on xanex it helps some everything else is bad but this anxiety is a keller

betty 2 years ago

iwas on sub for four months i was going between 4mg and 2mg for i month my dr decided it was time to stop that i was ready ready right but not for all these wonderful w/d i was on long term pain relief for about a year and a half had surgery to fix the problem thats done now i have to deal with this does it ever end

Matt 2 years ago

I'm on day 17 and the anxiety has subsided, but not gone. I would say to be careful with xanax. It is also a highly addictive substance, especially when combined with alcohol. You can see my previous post as to how I dealt with the anxiety and that is what worked for me.

betty 2 years ago

thanks matt going to the doctor tommorow will ask about remeron this is scary shit been through alot nothing like this good luck on your journey

vincentx90 2 years ago

Seems that highly elevated levels of anxiety is a common withdrawal symptom that is particularly prevalent in coming off long acting opioids like subbies and methadone.

It seemed more manageable when rattling off short acting stuff as it didn't go on for so damn long.

Man, I ramble on about shit in my posts sometimes. I'm tired. I'm very very tired of all this. Drug abuse has wrecked my entire life.

This is a bad day. Only one way forward. Just keep going. I need to get some sort of life. I need a job. Everything just seems fucked up. I spent so long incapacitated by the amount of drugs I was doing and living a vagrants life, a street bum, sofa surfing. I've lost touch with how to live.

Sorry for this depressing shit. I just can't see a way ahead at the moment. I've lost sight of what I'm supposed to be aiming for. My confidence is shattered.

vincentx90 2 years ago

I know it sounds pathetic but I just want a shoulder to cry on. I can't carry on like this, fighting alone. I have so much shit to sort out.

mark 2 years ago

OMG, this whole sub thing has turned into such a nightmare. When I looked into getting off a long history of taking narcotics I was prescribed subs and told to stay on for at least 1 year. I at that time could not find forums like this one that collaborated comments with live persons that had or were going through the detox of the subs. The Dr never told how very difficult it would be to endure the detox. I am floored that all this information isn't more detailed wherever there is any information dissimulated on sub usage.

My question is a little different thou, I am currently being treated for hep c, the treatment requires both interferon and ribavirin which have terrible side effects as well. As for subs I have weaned down, I am down to 1/2 of one tab which are 2mg-0.5mg tablets. When I decrease it is for a 2 week period, then i split in half again. I want to jump off but keep in mind at the same time I don't want to sabotage my hep C treatment. Will it make any difference by getting to a very low dosage before I stop completely? Or by what I have read sounds like it is the drug itself that manifests the horrible side effects when stopping. This drug got me off the narcotics but sounds as though, over all, suboxone is really not for those that want to be free from drugs. I just wish I had all the information I needed when I started. I may have still used the subs to detox but I would have gotten off them ASAP. I do believe the longer they are used the harder it becomes to get off them. Something changes in the brain chemistry that takes a long time to adjust back and you start to feel well again. I cant blame anyone but me, I wanted a quick fix, well I got it and all the interest and payment due along with it. I must also admit that I was not informed about the detox from the subs from my prescribing Dr, but what do you expect, I don't really think he knew himself at the time because of the newness of the drug. Now the cat is out of the bag I really hope that they keep looking for the magic pill to help those that suffer from the fear of detox and provide us a real treatment that works and does not have such horrible side affects when we decide to stop taking them. I will post more through my detox from the sub, perhaps it will help someone with their decision.

vincentx90 2 years ago

Mark:

Keep tapering down as small as you can possibly go. I'd say at least to a 1/4 of your 2mg tablets (0.5mg). Any smaller is perhaps impossible to divide, but if not, then yes taper even lower to 0.25mg. It might sound like a tiny dose but 0.2mg of buprenorphine is considered a theraputic dose for the control of pain. Yes, so like, many of us have been on a dose that is 80 to 160 times stronger than a dose used for pain relief in people with no tolerance.

I jumped from 0.4mg. This was easier to do in the UK because I was prescribed these little 0.4mg tabs once I went under 2mg. So, I could taper from 2mg to 1.6mg to 1.2mg and so on...

I felt pretty much withdrawal free on the 0.4mg before I jumped. Yes, it hurt. I was totally surprised at the intensity and longevity of the w/d's.

However, Mark, not everyone has such a rough time of it. Some people have tapered down, jumped, had a rough time for maybe two weeks and then started to feel better. So don't presume it will be just as rough for yourself. We are all very different.

Keep tapering as low as you can go and get stable before tapering again.

Should you 'jump' while receiving the treatment for Hep C? Good question. I'm not a doctor and I haven't had the Hep C experience so I'm badly qualified to answer. All I can think to say is that if you want to jump then go for it BUT keep plenty of subs for emergencies in case you need them to enable you to maintain your extremely important medical treatment.

If you jump and then find you need to do a little maintenance then you might find a very 'low' dose will be adequate.

Thanks for sharing your experience. Keep us posted :)

vince

jmb 2 years ago

I been on drugs off and on for my whole life mostly on.today is day 27 off subs and i am still awaiting to feel completely normal. I used percocet 60mg for about 3yrs and have been on subs for about 6 months prior to quiting subs cold turkey. The first week was pretty bad the second week was better every thingseems to be getting better as the days pass by I just didn't think i would fell so damn lazy after this many days I was down to about 4mgs aday of subs and have strugled with the weening myself down process so I decided to just quit versus tapering down. All or nothing for me I notice that mornings are still a rough part for me it usually takes alot of phisical activity and amulti vitamin to get me feeling ok .The more moving around i do the better i feel but i feel like im draging most of the day . i take a mornig and night time bath and that helps me alittle . Any other suggestings to help please comment good luck every one

Jules 2 years ago

Hello Everyone. So I'm jumping off suboxone. My last dose was actually about 2 hours ago. I've been tapering down from 8mg to just crumbs. I mean I just took basically dust. I feel ok. I really can't complain tapering down wasn't that hard. I really juat had mild wd's. I know I have more to look forward to in the up coming days. I'm nervous and excited right now. I just want my life back. I've been addicted to opiates for the past 5 yrs. I've been on suboxone the last 2. So anyway we'll see what happens. It's nice to have these forums to have a place to go and share your experiences. I'll let you know how I do. Thanks for everyone's stories.

vincentx90 2 years ago

Well, is day 88 since stepping off subbies. Yesterday, day 87, I was able (for the first time yet) to stay active ALL day without hardly any of that dragging oneself about by force of will. I did some garden maintenance tasks, removing overgrown ivy, and enjoyed it! :)

I'm certainly not better yet. I've still got that alien feeling, not comfortable in my own skin. My flesh still has creeping and burning sensations (ibuprofen does seem to help now). My emotions still don't feel completely back on-line. There is that numb sensation in my head and my mind is rattling a little still. HOWEVER, all these things are much much milder and more manageable.

I have had a few depressing rants on here over the past few days. I was just getting very stressed out as I'm in the middle of relocating from one part of the UK to another and having financial difficulties. Fortunately, I've managed to find a workaround and my stress levels have come down somewhat.

jmb:

You will continue to feel a bit more normal every single day. Day 27 was, in retrospect, still early days for me as to feeling like a human being again.

You might well get back to feeling normal a lot quicker than me. Either way, don't despair, because you WILL become normal again. It does happen, even though never as quickly as we would like.

Keep going, it's sooooooo worth it! And, well done for getting this far! You've done fucking brilliantly! :)

vincentx90 2 years ago

Jules: Good luck Jules, keep us posted! :)

betty 2 years ago

on day 12 off subs wd still bad went to the dr put me on cembalta (spelled wrong im sure) and something for the anxiety rls is a little better with alive im still a mess with the anxiety but waiting for the meds to start helping this crap seems never to end what else is in store for me

dopewasouttokillme 2 years ago

Suboxone to me is a miracle drug.. but Im caught between wanting to be totally clean and knowing that i need this medicine. I cringe at the thought of having to detox off suboxone. It saved my life. But there are days when I have to go without it and around day three it starts to get bad.. But better than the alternative. I am so thankful for suboxone. I dont know where I would be without it...

Jules 2 years ago

1st full day without the suboxone. I fell alright. I was real sleepy today but couldn't really sleep. Of course I have the sweats and yawning. I'm about to go to bed so we'll see how the night goes. I'll be back tomorrow to keep you updated. Thanks for the encouragement.

vincentx90 2 years ago

Betty:

As you are on day 12 there is nothing more that you need expect in the way of withdrawals. What you are going through now is as bad as it gets. Yes I know, it is pretty bad especially the terrible anxiety. Hopefully the meds your doctor gave you will help with the anxiety a little, take the edge off at least.

The anxiety might start to ease off over the next few weeks. It depends very much on the individual. It took 12 weeks for my anxiety to improve considerably and even now (in week 13) anxiety is still the number one issue albeit milder and more manageable.

Stick in there Betty, you can do it! Get all the help you can from your doctor for the anxiety. I used zopiclone which helped a little. I hear valium is quite good. Be careful with these medications though as they are addictive if used daily for more than 2 weeks at a time.

dopewasouttokillme:

Certainly sounds like subbies saved your life and that is the most important thing! After a while though, on maintenance therapy, one does get that desire to want to be completely clean and feel like a human being again (not emotionally blunted and numb).

Don't be afraid of jumping off subs. If you do ever decide to do it then first taper down to the smallest possible dose you can cut up. Then make sure your parachute is safely atttached and JUMP!!!

Jules:

Great post! Very exciting to see what is happening on your journey. Yes, please do update us on your progress. :)

It's early days but I'm sure you will battle through this like a true warrior and will find strengths you never thought you had.

Thanks to everyone for posting about your amazing experiences. It is a HUGE encouragement to me to hear about you all.

brian 68 2 years ago

Today is day 32 w/o subs and I actually got about 7 hrs of sleep last night. Please be very careful with anti-anxiety meds like valium and klonopin-VERY ADDICTIVE!. My doc gave me nuerontin for bedtime but it didn't do much for me so I dumped em.The anxiety level is way down low now so for anyone out there going thru this; Hand in there-----You're life is worth it

Jules 2 years ago

Day 2- Not so good today but Iknow this isn't even the worst of it. I'm so tired but CANNOT sleep. I feel like I'm going to vomit any second. My poor daughter has entertained herself all day long. I know I deserve this for abusing drugs for so long but it hurts bad. My back is killing me if I could live in the bathtub I would. I haven't had the energy to brush my hair and I got out of the bath 5 hrs ago. I'll stop complaining now. It will be worth when it's all done.

mark 2 years ago

Still tapering down haven't jumped this time yet and not looking forward to it at all. How does anyone get up to go to work when getting off the subs? Look just read posts for someone off 28 days and they still cant sleep and still aren't at 100%. What kind of Frankenstein meds are we being prescribed here? I am seeing more and more evidence from all the posts that the great and wonderful Suboxone is nothing but another lie for us and I for one was never told of the long term affects, just take this it will help with the effects of withdrawals from the narcotics the Dr's had prescribed to me for years. Now we look for the best method to get off subs, perhaps another magic pill. Keep up all the good work all, get off all the junk, life is way to short not to feel alive all day.

Jules 2 years ago

Day 3-Last night SUCKED!! I got maybe an hour of sleep altogether. It was the near panick attacks I had that were the worst. I talked myself down and survived. I took a bath this morning and feel better. It's not awful if it doesn't get worse I think I can survive this! i just don't want to feel this way for months and months. Good luck to anyone out there that is going through this.

Jules 2 years ago

Day 3-con't so today was ok. There are definitely wd symptoms they just aren't nearly as intense as the H wd's. It seems to be worse at night probably cause I want to sleep then and can't. It's about 9pm and I want bed but know it's too early and I don't think I'm ready for the torture ahead of me. My stomach hurts bad but I've been able to eat which is good. I forced myself to do the shopping today. We were out of food completley. It was good to get out and not think about it too much. It's always at it's worse when I'm just sitting still well as still as my legs will allow. I'm always nausea. Haven't thrown up yet. I'm going to go take a bath and hopefully that will calm be down for bed.

I can honestly say though it's not as bad as reg opiate wd's for me anyway. I hope that stays true. Afterall I'm only on day 3. Well I'll be back in the am to post my night. Wish me luck!!

brian 68 2 years ago

Keep it up Jules, the nausea and physical stuff is probably close to over now. In my case the sleeplessness was the worst because you're so tired and you're mind is racing. But it gets better!! As far sitting still; try not to. If you can keep busy and active your mind will not obsess as much.Try NA or AA meetings. These are people who KNOW what you're going thru and you can get phone #s to talk to them which really helps and keeps your mind busy. Good Luck and don't give up

Jules 2 years ago

Brian-Thanks alot for your encouragement! I just moved to the area I'm at so I have to find the new meetings. My ex's mother the grandmother to my daughter said she would go with me so I'm looking forward to that.

Day 4-It's 9:34am I've been awake for about an hour. Just got out of the bath. I feel pretty descent right now considering my night. I tried to go to sleep at 12am and did't fall asleep till 2:30 then was woke up by my BF(He doesn't know I'm going through this he thinks I have the flu) He went out last night for a bit and apparently got jumped!!! It's a long story but got pretty beat up. I hate this new area I live in. It's all scumbags! He'll be fine though. I feel bad because I also felt like shit and just didn't feel like comforting him. That sounds awful.I did though so I guess I'm not a terrible person. I finally fell back asleep at 6am after tossing and turning for 3 hrs. Then bam my daughter wakes me at 8:30 but believe it or not other than the typical headache I felt semi-normal. My legs were still and I actually wanted to get up. When I was on sub I could have slept the whole day.

My stomach gave me some issues but that doesn't even bother me so much it's the NO SLEEP I can't take. It's one thing to just not be tired but when you're tired as hell and for the life of you you can't sleep. It's not a good feeling. I'm really hoping it won't last a long time. Overall though these wd's are way easier than H wd's there was no way I could even sit here and type when I was going through that. So I just have to tough it out a little longer. I just pray that it gets better everyday and not worse. I'm still so early in the process. I'm keep my head up and hoping for the best. Because I refuse to go back to that terrible drug. I'll be back later to let you know how the day goes. I'm going to try to take my daughter to the park. Poor thing has been house bound for 3 days.

vincentx90 2 years ago

Jules:

It's great to hear your posts. I know it's bloody hard right now, the sleep issue especially. You really sound like a fighter and I'm sure you'll get through this.

Stop putting yourself down! You are NOT a bad person. You are as good a person as anyone else on this planet and a lot better than most. Here you are, honestly bearing your heart out on this website and going through a lot of suffering because you want to do what you believe is right. That says to me you are a very worthy person and I have the utmost respect for you right now.

Brian68, thx for the encouraging posts :) You encourage all of us by encouraging just one :)

Best wishes,

Vince.

Phoenix54 2 years ago

So Im a week away from being off the Sub for 4 months! I am excited. It was really hard the first month. After that it got better weekly. I was kinda scared there for a while. The stress gets to me a lot worse than it did when I was on Sub. I have more energy and if I dont get up and do something with my son, then Im a wreck all day. Cant get motivated! They put me on some meds though b/c I told them I was having a hard time. I havent started but I will soon. I just hate knowing I got off something to get right back on something else. Its something for moods, pain, and depression. Its a pain blocker. Its not a pain killer which is sweet! I have cronic pain so I look forward to it.

I hope that everyone that is getting off of this shit will pull through and not relapse. The hard part is not over though. The cravings will come so be ready guys!

Take care!

Jules 2 years ago

Vince-Thanks for the kind words that really makes me feel better!! I just wish I had someone to talk to on a one to one. I love this forum but having to wait for respones is hard.

Anyway I just got back from the playground with my daughter. It was hard getting the energy to do that but she loved it. She actually took a nap when we got home something she never does. I tried but failed of course. I just hate the RLS and the no sleep. I can't seem to get my legs to stop jerkin! But let me say once again this is way easier then kicking H. It's not fun at all but I can actually shower and walk around. That's huge! Well I'll be back later for more updates. Sorry if I annoy anyone. Good luck to everyone out there going through this it is very hard!!

pissitohole 2 years ago

how bout getting a life people! Gosh, drug addict losers

Jules 2 years ago

Not very nice pissitohole!!!! Why are you even reading these? Maybe you need a life!

Jules 2 years ago

Day 4-Night time! It's always worse at night. I just got home from the store.(I walked and it felt good) EXERCISE is key! Stocked up on some imodium and icyhot. I also bought some OTC sleep aides. I figured I would give it a shot. I've noticed the past 2 nights I actually don't fall asleep till around 6am. I only sleep a couple hours but I feel fine when I wake up. SO I'm going to try to stay up as late as I can tonight. The anxiety is a killer. I literally talk myself down.

The good news tomorrow my daughter's grandmother is taking me to a meeting. I'm hoping that will help! She's an amazing woman. He son my ex is the one who got us started on all this. I'm not blaming him I'm a big girl but he introduced it to me. Then he supplied me with sub for 2 years and all of a sudden cut me off after he found a new gf. But that's not the point. The point is I'm getting through this. A few times today I thought I wouldn't make it but I'm hopefull again. I also must stress again. This is WAY better then H wd's! Still sucks but better. Here's looking forward to day 5!!

Good luck to everyone else out there!

vincentx90 2 years ago

Just ignore pissitohole, he's what is called an internet TROLL (someone who goes round internet forums and chat rooms for the soul purpose of causing offence and upset). Some people term them 'internet bullies', but 'troll' is better I think, hence the act of 'trolling'. Ironically, people like that do indeed have no life whatsoever otherwise why the f*** would they do it? Probably just some dumb kid who hasn't grown up yet or experienced any real problems in their life.

Thank you again Jules for your great post and encouragements :)

Yes, I know there are times in the day that one feels like 'I can't go on like this anymore'. Only way I deal with those moments is by reminding myself that I am still getting better, every minute of every day, and that this really bad bit will pass shortly.

Would your doctor be prepared to prescribe something to help you sleep? After all, this is probably the worst and most disabling part of the recovery.

Best wishes, and hope you have some kind of relief/encouragement in day 5

:)

Phil.

Hi Phoenix54,

I got a bit confused about your post. What isn't a painkiller but a painblocker? Aren't they one and the same? Where are you on the bupe taper? I assume u are tapering off at the moment?

Regards,

Phil.

Jules 2 years ago

Day 5-Morning! Well last night was probably the hardest yet. I went bed at 2am but had the worse rls and back pain so I was in the bath at 3am if I could sleep in the tub I would. That seemed to doo the trick though. I got out and kept telling myself to sleep and the last time I loooked at the clock it was 5am it's now 9am and I feel pretty good.

Mornings are always easy for me of course I would like more sleep but 4 hrs isn't bad compared to the other nights.

I was ready to give up last night but I reminded myself that I'm so close to my goal and I don't want to do this all over again ever!! I can not stress enough that exercise and hot baths are the answers!!!

Vince-I don't have health insurance so no doctor visits for me! I'll survive!!

I'm also going to meeting today and then to my mom's for a few days so I can get some help with my daughter. So I might not be posting for awhile, but I'll be back soon.

Thanks again for everyones encouragement it really helps!

pissitohole 2 years ago

im doing some research on drug addict losers and seemed to have found agreat resource...JULES!

vincentx90 2 years ago

pissitohole:

You are a strange boy!

Jules:

That's great you are getting out a bit. Get out as much as possible, it certainly helps a lot. Hopefully going to your mum's will give you some extra breathing space as well :)

Don't give up. Keep going. You know the goal is so fantastic that it is worth all this pain. To be normal, to feel emotions, to experience life as it is meant to be with it's ups and downs, pains but also immense pleasures :)

Keep posting Jules, I look forward to hearing from you soon.

The very best of wishes,

Vince.

vincentx90 2 years ago

don't stop posting peeps!

encourage us all!!

good stories and bad, or just plain venting frustration... do it all!!!!

you guys rattling off *shit* have more strengths than you can ever imagine... keep going cos when you return to 'normal' you'll be rocking people :) :D

So please keep going, however fucking shit it gets, because it WILL and DOES get better, even when it feels like it drags on week after week.... man, it really does end, even after all that time, and you'll be 200% the person you were before with life skills that other people can only dream of....

vincentx90 2 years ago

Jules, baby, get posting... u can fight this shitty little demon, i know it feels big now, but man, it fades into the background given time :)

brian 68 2 years ago

We know this thing is a bitch; but don't give up! I lost my career of 30 years because of DRUGS and nobody except the guy who got the scripts for me and the pharmacist knew.Until DEA arrived.This crap ruins lives, don't let yours be another one of them! Keep Busy! Call People on the phone!The rewards are not ther yet; but when they come----Freedom.

Research Analyst 2 years ago

Thanks for explaining why suboxone roduces opiate type withdrawal symptoms because many may not know when to stop taking this drug or what to expect when they do. It is good that you are providing information so people can learn from the mistakes of others.

vincentx90 2 years ago

Research Analyst:

It really isn't that simple...

Jules 2 years ago

I'm back!! and it's day 10- I feel ok! It's gotten a little easier but I feel about the same as 5 days ago but at least it hasn't got worse!! It was nice being away for awhile. I was with family and even got to see some old friends. Really the only bad thing is I drank one night and that made me feel terrible the next day. So I think I will stay away from alcohol for awhile. Well I'm going to keep going strong. Too bad if I get NO sleep it's all worth it. Talk to you guys later!

vincentx90 2 years ago

I been using zopiclone to help with sleep for the past 4 weeks, i'm now worried i'm hooked on it physically and getting adverse reactions... :(

Jules 2 years ago

Phil- That sucks!!! I just use OTC stuff it helps a little. I really don't ever fall asleep till 4 or 5 am and sleep till 8 so I'm just dealing with it!! I don't want to depend on sleep aides besides they just make all groggy and don't really let me sleep! Good luck with all that!

Andrew 2 years ago

First day totally off subs. I am starting school about third week of sept. so i really want to get off the sub dependance. I probably did not get off them the right way I was on 4 mg for a while then went down to a pinch a day for about a few days and just decided to go cold turkey. I am in bed all dy, feel like shit with the sweating, no energy, stomach issues, etc. I also got bad cold sores all over beacuase I stopped so drastically but am going to try to stick with it.

Jules  2 years ago

Andrew- You should be very proud of yourself it's a big step to make and certainly not an easy one. I promise you though it gets easier. Exercise and HOT BATHS!!! They are the best thing you can do for yourself. Also eat well and take vitamins. Good Luck to you with your process.

vincentx90 2 years ago

Jules, good to hear you going strong and fighting on.

I am less worried about the zopiclone now. It seems that I am actually going through another phase of my very long withdrawal. It is a very nerve racking experience but it is all for the good. The numbness has started to go away and at last I am beginning to feel the full force of reality hitting me.

I hated the numbness more than anything so even though this is an intensely uncomfortable period it is also really really good that I am going through this now. :)

It is day 98 for me since stopping all the subs and I haven't touched any opiate since then. The thought of going back to that numb existence, not experiencing life to the full (or even to a tiny degree) just terrifies me. It scares me more than the withdrawal syndrome I have.

For a few weeks i did get into drinking quite a lot to calm myself down and I have recognised this and stopped it now. It just wasn't worth how bad I felt the next morning and of course I would get rebound anxiety after the alcohol wore off.

This is the most terrifying (but exciting) journey of my life, coming clean from opiates (and drug abuse in general of course). Everything seems so fresh and new. I'm shocked at how drugs made my life so narrow minded and shallow.

At the same time, I really don't know how I'm going to get through each day. I'm struggling with motivation to even shower at the moment. I just want to curl up in bed and for all my worries to go away. But, this withdrawal experience is so long that I have to attend to various things to keep my accommodation going etc...

I really need 6 months on a desert island with a guide showing me how to survive... I really don't need external pressures and additional stress at the moment, but that is the way it is.

But, at last, the numbness is finally deserting me.

Phil.

Jules 2 years ago

Day 11-Just when I say it hasn't got worse BAM! Last night was awful. I can't take feeling sick to my stomach all the time. I'm constantly uncomfortable. I hate everthing right now. I've lost my positive attitude. Mornings are easiest for me but nights are pure hell. I'm done with this. Not that I really have a choice I have no way of getting anything anyway. I'm just very frustrated right now.

Jules 2 years ago

Day 11-Just when I say it hasn't got worse BAM! Last night was awful. I can't take feeling sick to my stomach all the time. I'm constantly uncomfortable. I hate everthing right now. I've lost my positive attitude. Mornings are easiest for me but nights are pure hell. I'm done with this. Not that I really have a choice I have no way of getting anything anyway. I'm just very frustrated right now.

vincentx90 2 years ago

Jules:

Sorry to hear about it hitting you harder. This is why I think it is important that the truth be out there about bupe withdrawals, so that people are prepared.

It does seem to come in waves, with better periods then worse ones and so on...

This bad bit will pass Jules. Keep on going. Do whatever it takes to take your mind off it.

Best wishes...

vincentx90 2 years ago

just a point of note.... i believe the prozac is actually intensifying what were mild withdrawals, my skin is burning up from head to toe and crawling... anxiety is off the scale... suffice to say i stopped taking the prozac today so hopefully in 48 hours i'll start to feel better...

(this is not the first time i've had a very intense adverse reaction to antidepressants)

Jules 2 years ago

Day 12-Well it got better. Last night was still rough I was exhausted at 8pm and just crashed for an hour. Then I was up on and off all night. The rls is what seems to bother me most right now. My whole body feels like it's shaking. But the good news I woke up this morning and felt calm. It was weird. It was like my body had a party all night and now it's sleeping. I'm awake but I don't think my body knows it yet. So hopefully it will sleep a little longer. Fingers crossed the physicall wd's are almost over. My spirits are up again so I'm just going to keep pushing on. Mornings are always easy for me though so we'll see how the day goes.

Vincentx90- Thank you so much for the encouragment. It means the world to me. I really hope you start feeling better too. You have come so far. I hear those antidepressants can be killers. Good luck to you!!

vincentx90 2 years ago

Thank you Jules for your kind words *hug* :)

Yes, I'm feeling better, turns out I did have an extreme adverse reaction to the prozac, treatment was terminated and I have been given mild sedation for a few days to recover :)

Keep reminding yourself of the times it gets easier Jules. Then when it is feeling hard you can remember it does get better again and on... Your mind will try and play tricks and tell you how awful it will always be... It's all lies... It does get better and better after a while. At least the horrible physical stuff like rls does pass soon enough. The mental numbness and return to fully human might take longer but is a rewarding process because things get better every day.

Best wishes as always... :)

Jules 2 years ago

Just wanted to do a quick update I have felt good all day so far. I don't have a ton of energy but I don't feel sick and my legs have been still all day. I really hope it stays this way. I've been doing online meetings huge help!! Especially if you aren't a social person.

MandyGwen 2 years ago

Hi I have been on and suboxone for 3 yrs off during my pregnancy and it is the just as bad as opiate withdraws if not worse I totally agree with this and you did a great job writng!

Jules 2 years ago

MandyGwen- I'm glad you like this post as much as I do. Everything on here is true and helpful. I just wanted to post my journey so I can look back and remember what is was like.

It's still day 12 but it's evening and I really have felt good all day long. I just have ZERO energy but I can live with that. Also my legs feel like they are about to start kicking but haven't yet so we'll so how the night goes. I've also been on NA meetings online all day and they have help a whole lot. Wonderful people out there.

Good Luck to everyone going through this it's not easy but it does get better. I'll see what tommorrow brings. Fingers crossed!

vincentx90 2 years ago

Jules, thank you once again for your post. It brings me such a great deal of comfort. I read your posts and have nothing but the utmost regard for you.

Things have improved again for me. As the prozac works its way out of my system I am feeling so much better. That really was a nightmare and I narrowly avoided another admission to psych ward.

I'm really astounded at how the prozac amplified my now mild physical discomfort from withdrawals. I was suicidal on that stuff as I thought it was some kind of delayed extreme reaction to coming off the bupe and it was just getting worse every day. Ah well, that nasty episode is over now :)

I am still experiencing a degree of numbness in my mind and a difficulty in finding pleasure in anything. However, I am finding some pleasure in things, enough to keep me fighting through this PAWS (post acute withdrawal syndrome). All the withdrawal systems continue to get milder and milder every single day.

I'm very glad to hear that some of your physical symptoms are beginning to abate. The rls is grim I know but it will also soon go away for the most part and will continue to become milder and milder and more manageable, less distressing.

I'm so encouraged by your battle and your courage. Keep fighting the good fight.

Best of wishes, from... ah forget my alias, name is indeed Phil. :)

vincentx90 2 years ago

MandyGwen, thank you for your post and encouragement :) Yes, indeed, bupe withdrawals really can be nasty for some of us. I tapered to 0.4mg a day before jumping and still had a heck of a bad ride... (in UK we get 8mg, 2mg and 0.4mg tabs of subutex rather than suboxone and 2mg smallest)

Jules 2 years ago

Day 13- Early morning. Last night was once again rough. Didn't fall asleep till around 5am and woke at 8am. I guess 3 hrs is better than none. RLS is better but still present. I feel very out of it today. It probably doesn't help that it's raining here. I was sick to my stomach all night but that has now let up. It's so weird how one day you feel so good and the next it's all back again. But each day clean is better then before.

I feel really good about what I am doing. I know before long I will be back to normal and things will be so much better. Till then I will just pray that I get through this.

Phil- You have no idea what it means to me that someone out that is listening to my journey. I as well look forward to your posts it's what keeps me going. Quick question for you? When did you start sleeping right again? I'd appreciate any advice on that. I've tried OTC stuff but it doesn't help. Thanks again for your support.

vincentx90 2 years ago

Jules,

I was able to get 4 or 5 hours sleep after about 6 weeks. I know that sounds a long time but there is no point in me not telling you the truth. I did manage to have some daytime naps aswell.

I didn't manage to get a good sleep (like 7 hours without disturbance) until a couple of months had past.

Is there no way you can access a doctor for maybe some short term sleeping aid? I remember you saying you don't have access to medical help :(

I did manage without sleeping tablets for the worst of it but looking back it would have been helpful to have had something. It wasn't until i ended up on a psych ward for two weeks that the doctor relented and prescribed me zopiclone to help with sleep. I was on the psych ward in week 7 and 8 of my withdraws. However, I have underlying anxiety issues that have been with me all my life and these were obviously amplified by w/ds.

I hope that this info is of some use to you, don't hesitate to ask anything, anytime... :)

I am thinking of you Jules. Keep fighting the fight. And, you are right, however bad one feels at a particular time, it does and is getting just a bit better every day.

Kindest regards,

Phil.

Jules 2 years ago

Phil-First I want to tell you that my real name is Jules! Second I consider you a friend now. It is so nice to being sharing this experience with someone especially someone who understands what I'm going through. Thank you for your honesty I'd much rather hear the truth so I know what to expect.

I figured I'd probably wouldn't be sleeping well for awhile. I do get some sleep it's just always interuppted and it's the worst between 2am-5am. So I get about a total of 4 hrs everynight just not all at once. So I really can't complain. I just love to sleep so it's hard not being able to.

On the plus side I'm awake now to enjoy my little girl. While taking subs I would sleep all day on and off. I feel terrible about that. I would literally have to force myself up to make her meals. I'm a wonderful mom. I know I shouldn't beat myself up but I've really slacked in that department do to drugs. Good thing she is young and very forgiving.

Phil I know you said you don't go to NA because it's akward for you and what not. They have online meetings and chat rooms and I have found them to be so so helpful. For example I had a great day yesterday but for about 20 mins I went into a rage of anger and have no idea where it came from so I got online and they helped me get through it. So you might want to try that out.

I know it's still so ealry in my recovery but I remember 3 weeks ago thinking I can't wait to be posting I'm 13 days clean!!! And here I am. I'm quite proud. Today is a rough day but you know it could be way worse. I'm alive and clean and so much closer to being myself again.

Once again thank you for your encouragement and I'm grateful to have you through all this. I also hope my "journal" will help others. Like the ones in the previous posts helped me.

Enjoy Today!!

Jules

vincentx90 2 years ago

Thank you Jules.

It's a long time since someone has called me a friend :)

I will look into this online NA thing.

You ARE a wonderful mum. Anyone with the strength and conviction to do what you are doing has got to be a great mum! :)

I consider you a friend aswell and am honoured that you think of me as a friend.

*hugs*

Phil.

Jules 2 years ago

Today is good day!! I laughed alot. It was so nice. I feel good too. I'm still shaky and achy but I can deal with that. I fear tonight will suck and it probably will but if I keep having good days I don't care about the nights. My body will sleep when it's ready. I'm not worried. I just wanted to let you guys know that it does get easier. It comes and goes in waves but the good waves happen more then the bad. So keep going strong don't use, stay clean, and get support because you can't do it alone. :)

Phil- Hugs right back to you!!! You have been so cool through all this. Thanks again!

mindash 2 years ago

you've got quite a bit of misinformation here, first suboxone is not a short acting opiate. it has a half life of 36 or 72 hours i believe and the reason that the withdrawal is less severe is because its more drawn out due to the long halflife. the reason its so bad with heroin or vicodin is because they are short acting opiates only having a few hour halflife

secondly..the only reason the naloxone is added is so that they become unshootable, trust me they are very snoratable and actually have a higher bio-availability through this route. the bupenorphrin itself is also a blocker due to its high affinity and ability to glue itself into the opiate receptors hence blocking other opiates form even reaching them.

also in detox i was told that sub withdrawal can last anywhere from 13 days to over a month and if stopped suddenly i'll tell you first hand i would rather experience withdrawal from a 300mg a day oxy habit than taking 24mg of in a 2 day period then stopping cold turkey. i can manage the oxy withdrawal but i was ready to call 911 with the bupe withdrawal and felt like i was having a stroke

Jules 2 years ago

Day 14-2 weeks So here it is NIGHTS SUCK!! But I'm okay with that considering I've been having good days. Yesterday during the whole day it was almost like I had no symptoms. Very mild.

I did go out to dinner later that evening but was very uncomfortable the whole time. I had a few drinks. Stupid me didn't I learn before I had a killer headahce all night long. I tried to stay awake as long as I could before actually going into bed. I crashed at 2:30 but was up and 3:30 and once again was awake till 5am and woke at 8am. It's like a routine now.

Here are my symptoms:

Night time-No sleep and mild RLS

Day time-shaky, numb, and sneezing

The sneezing is so odd. I always sneeze in 3's and 4's so last night I counted from 3-5am I sneezed over 40 times. It's not terrible just annoying.

So anyway I feel like I'm doing quite well and am happy with the progress I've made. It's only going to get better.

NA meetings have been super helpful as well. I also thought I would remind everyone of my history. I was a heavy opiate user for 5 years. To the point where I was shooting up $100 a day of heroin. Then for 2 yrs I was on suboxone on and off, switching between that and dope. The last 5 months just strictly suboxone. I didn't really taper to much. I made my last 8mg last about a week and half before I jumped.

So I still have a long recovery ahead of me but this is def. doable. And once again way milder then H wd's but a lot longer. So think long and hard before getting on suboxone.

Thanks for listening and I will continue to update my journey!!

Beth 2 years ago

I first want to say congrats to everyone that is attempting sobriety, it is really hard to make that change.

I was addicted to painkillers for about 2 1/2 -3 years, vicodin, percocet, oc's, basically whatever. When I decided that pill chasing was killing me and afraid that I would get caught as well, I decided to finally do something. I reached that point of feeling I was sick & tired of being sick & tired! I remember thinking one day that this is going to be the rest of my life! I just couldn't be ok with that.

I first went to a methadone clinic for about 6 months, basically to break the habit that I was in. Although looking back I wish I would have never gone there. Methadone is pretty much like taking the pain meds & it is really hard to come off of. I wanted to get away from going to those clinics b/c the doc's there seemed to just want to keep me there for as long as they could. I wanted to stay at 30-35mg, but they kept saying I needed more! I was prepared to feel some discomfort b/c hell I'm the one that got myself into this damn mess anyway.

So this new doc started coming there part time & I told him my story & he gave me his card to see him in his office for suboxone. He was an advicate for suboxone & to help more & more ppl get off methadone. I thank God that I met him b/c the clinic was not the answer for me. Anyone considering methadone, please do all your research & choose what is best for you!!

So I got on the suboxone in March 2008, and I have been off of it for about 9 days now. I started on 16mg for about a week, then I decided to just take 8mg b/c after reading how subs works, it only takes about 8 mg to block the receptors in your brain. You WILL feel some discomfort, but you can handle this (have a support system at all times!) I stayed on it for too long I guess, but I tapered myself down to about 1 1/2 mg once a day> When I actually had a chance to come off of it (due to not being able to get off of work)I had been taking it for about a year & a half.

Basically the longer you take the suboxone, the longer your withdrawl sypmtoms (though it varies). I came off 1 1/2 mg cold turkey & I thought it was going to be a breeze. Not that it was the worse withdrawl I've experienced, but by the third day I was miserable. I had ALL the sypmtoms that anyone could have, but I had a much needed support system right there with me the whole way. I'm on my 8th day of being off the suboxone & I feel pretty good besides some fatigue, hot & cold, and some stomach issues. I would suggest that everyone gives themselves a full week to start to feel better (some may need more).

Before you start the process, make sure you are well rested, hydrated (drink only water for at least 3 days prior)& healthy food in your system. You will need the extra fuel & rest so that the transition will be more comfortable. Make sure you are ready to do this & that you have cut off ALL ties to anyone that could give you meds, drugs, or whatever to disrupt your recovery. There are people waiting in the background that will always get you sucked back in. I can't stress this enough, DO WHATEVER YOU NEED TO DO TO GET ALL THE PEOPLE THAT STILL USE OUT OF YOUR LIFE! I don't care if it is your mom, dad, brother, sister, husband, wife, child, or friend; the only thing that being around those people will do is further bring you down & defer your recovery.

The biggest thing that I hated about withdrawl was the couple nights I couldn't sleep. It was the night marking the 3rd day, I only slept about 2 hours. I did use a sleepaid (just over the counter) and always had tums by my side! Looking back on this experience, I would do it over & over to feel the way I feel now. I know that each day that passes, I will feel better & better. Just try your hardest to not work yourself up on those difficult days; try to lay still & breath very slow; almost like meditation. You are going to feel crappy for at least a couple days, but if you freak out it will make it worse for you.

Have someone there that can give you back rubs, make you meals, & basically get you through the tough times.

It is so worth going through this transition, you are going to feel so much better. It's hard to know what normal feels like after being addicted for so long, but trust me it's worth any pain you go through.

Good luck to all my fellow sobriety chasers, remember God wants you to be happy & he will be there if you ask...

JDub 2 years ago

Drink fluids people, de-hydration causes cramping and if you are having bathroom issues everything is leaving your body. Drink things high in sugar or Gatorade, water, whatever drink something. Keep yourself hydrated. You will lose less weight if you drink high carb/sugar drinks also. You can get liquid shake meal replacements from GNC which is better than not eating at all, which is what we all do. I'm on day 3 w/o suboxone and cannot wait for the depression to pass. I've been on suboxone for over 3 years. When my w/d is finally over I will want to see if I'm still depressed then I know I've been self medicating for over ten years.

Not eating and drinking makes w/d much worse, that is another reason u get depressed and cramping.

I titrated down to .5mg then stopped, I haven't moved much in 3 days but everyone has a different chemical make up in their body so symtoms will differ from person to person as well. I have plenty of suboxone but refuse to take it no matter what!!! Being a pharma rep I cannot believe the cash pay cost of suboxone. I managed a pain management pharmacy and they cost about $2 a pill. It's insane how doctors are hooking everyone on a drug that, if u have no medical coverage you are in big trouble. I guess it's just part of learning the lesson, money, pain, agony, what we choose to put in our bodies b/c that is who we chose to be. Everyone was clean at one point so we have to have a bad w/d to remember to stay clean, or at least tht is what I'm trying to tell myself...LOL GOOD LUCK EVERYONE

JDUB 2 years ago

Correction, drink things high in sugar and carbohydrates, your body needs any nourishment it can get!!!

Beth 2 years ago

You are right about having to feel the pain of w/d, I agree with you 100%> I don't EVER want to go through this again, plus I lost my husband 8 months ago b/c he overdosed. That really made me look at life & my recovery differently; it really is life & death!

I really enjoy reading what everyone has to say, it helps me stay strong:)

brian 68 2 years ago

Listen up peeps, nobody gets a free ride here. Whatever the circumstances are of your getting addicted; you're gonna pay. Having said that; Hang in there! what's worse??--sleep depravation or Chasing that feeling that cannot be found?? The choice is yours_____a potentially good life CLEAN or Jails, Institutions or DEATH

Jules 2 years ago

Phil- I miss you!!!

So glad new people are posting!! I think this site is great.

I'm getting ready for bed time and I hate it. I know it's going to suck but I had another good day so I'm up for the challenge.

Good luck to all those going through this right now. You can do it!!

Jules 2 years ago

Day 15-I GOT 5 HRS SLEEP LAST NIGHT!!!! WOO HOO!

The day is almost and it's been another good one. I still can't believe I got that much sleep. I still tossed and turned for post the night and my legs hurt but it was easier then the previous nights. Today I feel pretty good. I sort of feel like I have a small cold but I think it's because I've stopped smoking as well. I just have no desire anymore since stopping the suboxone. So I think I'm clearing out my sinuses.

Overall I think I'm over the wd's for the most part. It's really just at night when I don't feel so great. I'm just crossing my fingers that PAWS doesn't accure.

vincentx90 2 years ago

Jules, I'm still around and reading the posts. Just very tired at the moment following my allergic reaction to the prozac. I'm pretty much over it now and starting to function again.

I still feel emotional and pleasure numbness from w/ds. This syptom is now my most distressing as I just desperately want to think and feel like a human being again. I miss it so much.

So, knowing that this will end in time, I am fighting on.

Good to hear from you Jules, I'm so glad that it is going relatively well for you right now.

Great to hear all your posts guys and gals. They are all a great source of encouragement to us all.

:)

*hugs* Jules.

Phil.

Jstne 2 years ago

I have been on subs for a year and two months. I started out taking 3, 8mg sub pills for the first 3 days,and tapered down slowly. The past 2 months i have been taking barely anything. I 2mg pills would last me for a very long time. 1mg(half a 2mg pill) of sub lasted me for 11 days. I went through w/ds on and off when I tapered down the last 4 months. I am on day 2. Today I felt so tired, chills, sweats, but now I feel decent. I am still exhausted, emotionless, chills, but nothing even half as bad when I would w/d from roxys. I don't think I'm out of the woods, but I'm hoping that because of how hard I worked to making a crumb of sub(literally the size of a piece of pepper) last me I hope the w/ds won't be so bad. Any thoughts?

vincentx90 2 years ago

Jstne, yes I don't see why you should have so bad withdrawals considering the excellent tapering regime you have achieved.

Have you not considered tapering down to 0.5mg? Maybe this would help even more? 1mg of bupe is still a powerful amount of drug.

Best of luck and please keep us posted as is fascinating to hear your experience,

Phil.

brian 68 2 years ago

Jstne, hang in there! You probably have already had the worst of the physical but I must warn you that the emotional stuff will be there for awhile. While tapering as you did was great; you still gave your receptors the opiates they sought. I suspect that much like myself and the other posters here, anxiety and sleeplessness will follow. That having been said; you can make it. Try to keep busy and spend too much time with yourself right now. Remember, like it or not you are sick and need some help. I am 7 weeks without the Subs and most of this crap has diminished to a point where it is managable.The thing that gets me is the lack of emotion and enthusiasm in ANYTHING. Like Phil, I look forward to FEELING again .

Jules 2 years ago

Day 16-I slept 6 1/2 hours last night!! With no help either. I just crashed. My body was still all night. I did wake a few times but went right back to sleep.

On another note I have s question if anyone can answer...ever since stopping suboxone I've noticed my skin smells strange. Not bad just weird. I remember reading in an earlier post someone mentioning that but was wondering if anyone else experienced this. I know when I kicked heroin months later I swore my skin smelled like heroin it drove me crazy. My skin doesn't smell like subs just smells weird. And I take at least 2 baths a day and 1 shower. Maybe it's all in my head.

I also wanted to apologize for my terrible writing. I never proof read and I just reread some things I wrote and man I suck!!

Phil-Hope you're feeling better. I'm sure you will be feeling again soon and it will be amazing. I'm certainly not %100 but I feel pretty darn good. Laughing again which is awesome.

JSTNE- Congrats on stopping the suboxone. I think how you tappered with help you so much. I did almost the same and I'm on day 16 and feel pretty good. You can reread my posts I've been posting almost everyday perhaps that will help you. It wasn't easy but it's doable and just when you thinkg you can't take it anymore it gets better. Best of luck to you!!

Everyone else have a peaceful and sober day!!!

Jules

Jstne 2 years ago

Jules-

I slept great last night, this can't be it. I'm on day 3. I'm just going to go about my day and tonight could be a completely different story. Have that tingly feeling in my heart area,feels like anxiety. Weird. Thanks for the support and glad you're feel better!:)

Jules 2 years ago

Day 17-Still going strong....

Jstne- Good luck I hope it all goes well for you but remember its takes about 3 days for it to actually get all out of your system so don't be suprised if you get hit. I do wish you well though. I'm feeling very well now.

Thanks everyone have a sober day!!

Beth 2 years ago

Just wanted to check in & say that I'm still going strong at day 13! I still have anxiety & tiredness, but it's all worth it to see another sober day. I'm so happy that I found this site, everyone stay strong & rely on whoever you can to get through:) God bless you all, good night:)

Beth 2 years ago

Well today was much more difficult than the past few days I have experienced. I only got about 2&1/2- 3 hours of sleep last night & haven't been able to fall asleep for a nap. I felt like I drank 10 cups of coffee, but didn't have any caffiene at all. I got so frustrated that I began to cry a little....I need my sleep to feel sane!

Other than the lack of sleep, I'm doing much better. It's day 14 & I feel better everyday.

Stay strong everyone:)

Jstne 2 years ago

I am on day 5. I slept great the past few nights, I am definitely up and down during the days. Achey body, restless leg syndrome (only during day not night, thank god). This is nowhere near severe as it was getting off oxy, but it still sucks. If anyone is reading who is still taking suboxone, I'm telling you, cut down your dose of sub AS MUCH AS POSSIBEL before you jump. Like I said before, a half of a 2mg pill lasted me 11 days. So 1 mg of sub lasted 11 days and I took that dose for at least 2 months. I was on sub for 1 year and 4 months. I remember reading everyone posts and horror stories thinking, 'oh my gosh, I don't want to feel that again im scared!" Then i read from someone that A LITTLE bit of sub goes A LONG way and to taper down as much as possible before you get off. Glad I took that guys advice.

Beth- You are so close:) That's awesome!

Jules- Thank you. You don't know how much you have helped. I have been reading your posts for the past week before I stopped taking sub and it really did help me.

Jules 2 years ago

Jstne- I'm so happy you are doing so well. It's almost reverse for you I have great days and horrible nights. You should be very proud of yourself. You are so right about the tapper. I was ready to jump and 8mg and I found this site. It saved me. I'm so glad I've been of help to you. It so nice to know others can relate to what you are going through.

Beth- Keep up the good work. It gets bettter and better every day. I hear you on the sleep thing. I'm still only getting about 3hrs of sleep and as you know its not good sleep. But my days are good so I'm happy. I have my moments were I feel defeated but thats when I go to NA. They have meetings online and I met a ton of cool ppl. You might want to try it out.

Day 18--WOO HOO! I'm almost there. Still littl sleep and no energy but the physical part has passed. Thank God!!

Good luck and stay sober!!!!

Jules 2 years ago

Jstne- I'm so happy you are doing so well. It's almost reverse for you I have great days and horrible nights. You should be very proud of yourself. You are so right about the tapper. I was ready to jump and 8mg and I found this site. It saved me. I'm so glad I've been of help to you. It so nice to know others can relate to what you are going through.

Beth- Keep up the good work. It gets bettter and better every day. I hear you on the sleep thing. I'm still only getting about 3hrs of sleep and as you know its not good sleep. But my days are good so I'm happy. I have my moments were I feel defeated but thats when I go to NA. They have meetings online and I met a ton of cool ppl. You might want to try it out.

Day 18--WOO HOO! I'm almost there. Still littl sleep and no energy but the physical part has passed. Thank God!!

Good luck and stay sober!!!!

Beth 2 years ago

Your welcome and thank you to everyone as well..I'm glad I decided to get on-line for support groups, since I haven't felt like going out to NA meetings in the last 2 weeks.

Last night was somewhat better as far as the sleep, though didn't fall asleep until 5:30am & slept until about 11am. Hey I'll take what I can get, otherwise I will fell crazy.

No matter how bad the withdrawl symptoms may get, it doesn't compare to the feeling of sobriety.

I know that this a life long process, but I would rather chase a happy life than a high that is never a reality.

Thanks for the encouragement, Jstne it sounds like you are doing well! Stick through it, there def. is a light at the end of the tunnel:)

Peace

Phoenix54 2 years ago

Hey Phil.

I totally forgot I posted something. Sorry. That medicine is called Neurontin. The doc said it was invented by a guy that was helping people with Shingles. He said it was for pain that came from having Shingles. "Neurontin is also used to treat nerve pain caused by herpes virus or shingles." Thats what I looked up and its also for seizures. I really didnt know all of that. I took this medicine a long time ago and it REALLY helped with my moods/issues. Honeslty, I havent even started taking it b/c I dont want something to control me anymore. Im tired of that life. But its on reserve if I need it. I never tapered like you asked... I just got off the Suboxone. I was on it for about 3 yrs and got tired of it. I was on 2-4 mgs a day. The withdrawls sucked forever but 4 months into it... I am starting to forget I was on that crap! Its really nice. The only thing that has NOT changed, is the stomach issues. They are really bad. Maybe its b/c I have more anxiety.. ? Who knows..

Take care!

alone in alabama 2 years ago

I am soooo glad I found this website!!! I have been totally off of suboxone now for about 2 1/2 weeks and feel like I could just end it all if you know what I mean. I quit cold turkey due to insurance running out. I never thought I could feel so down and depressed. I ended up in the emergency room last Friday due to severe depression. I wanted to be admitted so I could have someone around me. I was literally afraid of killing myself. I have been on subo. for about a year. I also take prozac which doesn't seem to help the depression now. My husband is a truckdriver and is out of town alot. I have a 15 year old son who is my world but right now I am just not a good mom!!! I feel so numb and so disconnected to myself. I have the hardest time just getting up and washing dishes or folding clothes. How long does this crap last!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have an appointment with a mental health counselor next Monday. I hope that someone can help my anxiety and depression. I never dreamed that it could be this hard to get off this mess!!!!

Jules 2 years ago

Hey everyone!!!

I'd like to make a huge suggestion to everyone...get in NA even if its online. It saved me!!!

Day 19- Still going strong. Sleep sucks but I'm sober baby!! I'll sleep later.

Good luck all!

Phoenix54 2 years ago

Hey to 'Alone in Alabama'

I know it sux really bad right now. If you scroll way up in this forum, you will find me and my feelings I went through. I thought about it all too girl! I wanted to die and go use, I wanted to hit and just break things. I couldnt get up to do laundry either. I have a 1 yr old to run around after all day too! There were times where I thought, I cant do this. It took about 2 months to realize I was getting massively depressed. I already had exsisting issues with that. Sometimes it can take longer or even shorter like your case where you get way too down to manage. Its good that you went to the ER to try to get into a place. Just keep your head up and know that you will get some help. I hear Prozac is highly addictive and hard to get off of. So DONT stop that medicine...even if it isnt helping. The doc at the mental health place will help you out. When you start to get down and really depressed, get your ass up and freakin go clean out the closet...do something that will take a while, not to exhausting either. So, then when you get done...you feel good about it and accomplished. As a stay at home mom... I have to do those things. It helps I promise. At night is when I know it also gets bad esp without someone. If you have a friend that could stay with you...that would help. Its nice to have the company. The pain wont last too long either. I kicked and cried the first couple weeks in my sleep. I was in so much pain! I have been off this crap for 4 months now. I feel GREAT! I promise it goes away. Just be VERY assertive to your mental health. Tell your boy to help around the house too.

Good luck!

Phoenix54

brian 68 2 years ago

Alone in Alabama, keep it up! If you stay with it these things will pass in time. Admittedly who wants to hear that. But you have to understand that it took a long time to get here and it's not gonna get better without some work.The inability to get motivated is a combination of some depression and frankly your brain re-wiring.Think about it, one day at a time or the alternative of where you,ve already been. Make no mistake, where you've been =Death

alone in alabama 2 years ago

Well, I am almost 3 weeks in on detoxing and I still feel the depression although the numbness seems to be letting up some. I still don't have the energy to do much. I am sneezing alot too. I never dreamed this would be so hard to do. I had an appointment Monday with a mental health counselor but due to income can't afford to go right now. At least I know what is wrong with me now!!! Thanks for all your encourgement!!!!!

Jules 2 years ago

Day 21-3 weeks woo hoo!!

I also slept 7hrs last night. Wow what detox!!

I'm doing much better ppl. I feel good. I have little energy and get very anxious leaving the house but other than that. I feel good.

Keep going strong!! You will survive!

Jules

Beth 2 years ago

Hey everyone!! It's good to see new people on here, this will really help you in the recovery process.

I am on day 18 & I feel a little better everyday, though it definitely is a process! I do have some depression, so when I feel really down I write in my journal, spend time with family & supportive friends, & pray ( & of course get on this website) I think it is ok to be alone sometimes, but to have a support system there for you (even if this website is the only thing)is the best thing. I am very grateful that I stumbled upon this a couple weeks ago. Not only did I find the technical answers to my questions, I also found yet another fabulous support system:)

Everyone keep up the good work, be proud of yourselves for making the leap! C ya later

Phoenix54 2 years ago

Hey everyone. I see that everyone seems to be coping with this stupid detox. Like I have said before, I am in my 4th month and I thought it would never come!

'Alone in Alabama', the sneezing is so frustrating isnt it? It would give me chills and just make me so mad! But, guess what? My sneezing is back under control! I used to sneeze at least 20 times a day and now Im down to 1 or 2 times! Its awesome! About the depression.... as long as you know the deal, it is a lot easier to get from under the rock that holds you down. When you feel deppressed, just get out the house...even if it is to wlak around your house or down the street. I have to get out everyday. With my son esp he has to get out! Keep busy and hydrated!

'Jules', I know about the aniety too! It still gets to me a lot. I had a really hard time driving b/c I thought people were staring at me. I couldnt go into stores for too long without sweating and freaking out. With my son esp b/c he only has a couple minutes of patience before he starts screaming and doing the norm for a 1 yr old. So, that didnt help. I finally decided to do the things without him and the anxiety got a little better. I think we will always have the anxiety. I have "pockets" as I call it. The moods are very off still for me. Like right now. Im chill and not too anxious. Then I will go to pasing the floors and cant sit down for 2 seconds. Then I crash and need a nap. I try to keep busy around the house. Hang out with friends. Support is a good thing, you're right! Good luck to you!

In my opinion, it takes a GOOD 3 months to start feeling somewhat normal. depending on a lot of people here, we almost forgot what normal is...so you just have to be in tune with your emotions! Talk to people or someone about what you are going through. Friend or counselor. Whatever.

Good luck to all the new people and of course the ones that have a lot of clean time. It gets harder everyday.

vincentx90 2 years ago

Well, it's August 12th and I'm at the end of day 112. I really do think that it will take 6 months for me to be relatively completely free from this f**ker of a detox.

Suffice to say, things are getting better and easier all the time. I'm still dealing with unpleasant anxieties and that sense of my body not belonging to me. It's like I'm in a foreign skin. But, today, for the first time, I started to drowse off while watching some TV just like when I was pre-drug addicted, like when I was a child. It was a really nice feeling.

Now, about 11pm, I'm trying to get an early night as I have to be up at 7am and also have an ear infection in both ears so need to help my body recover. I have antibiotics. But, can I sleep? Nope... I just can't seem to do it naturally yet so I've taken two sleepers to try and help. I did give it a good two hours before taking anything as I really wanted to be able to do it without but I have a physically demanding morning tomorrow (moving stuff from old home to new). I just can't afford not to sleep much tonight.

I sound like I'm justifying myself but the truth be known I'm just feeling bad for all you people who haven't got anything vaguely strong to help you sleep through the worst times. :(

So, despite not feeling human yet, I'm a bloody lot nearer than ever before. I even managed a sing-a-long in a pub, after a few beers, with a smile on my face! :O At last, my social awkwardness is coming back to its normal level.

The withdraws are still leaving me feeling agoraphobic but this is improving a lot as well. I really can see the light at the end of the tunnel, brighter than ever before.

Oh boy... What can I say? Except, this has been worth every ounce of suffering. There is nothing more important, wonderful, fulfilling and just downright beautiful as life without opiate addiction. :)

You are all doing a fantastic job and I know I don't even have to tell you to keep going because I know you will. Every one of you are amongst the bravest people I'll ever be communicating with.

Lots of love to you all out there going through this, prayers and best wishes,

Phil.

brian 68 2 years ago

Phil, keepit up but please be careful about the Pubs, a couple of pints WILL weaken your defense system and ability to say NO. Just some friendly advice. Remember that you're wiring isn't like that of "normal" people. Good Luck.

alone in alabama 2 years ago

I sent the link to this website to the doctor that had me on this sh8$ and so far.....no response. You know....it is all about money with those people. They think they know everything and really they don't know squat!!! I keep expecting to see some ad on tv where lawyers are sueing the drug companies...doctors...etc. Keep it up everyone....i still feel like crap but "one day at a time".

Jules 2 years ago

Day 26-I took a little break from posting but things are still going strong. Nights are getting better over all but still aren't great. I get about 4-6 hrs of sleep every night. Which isn't that bad.

The days are good. I keep myself busy with my daughter and talking on line with other recovering addicts. I also gave up drinking so I feel really good. I quit smoking when I stopped the suboxone. My body is healing and I like it.

Phil-I'm so glad you feeling better. I hear you on the anxiety its killer. I still hate leaving the house but I make myself. I almost go into full panic mood but I just breath and talk myself down. I went through this detox with nothing but OTC sleep aides and only did that for the first week and I notice they only made me feel worse. But everyone is different. Best of luck with the move wish I could help:)

Everyone else keep up the good work this battle is rough but worth it. Best wishes to you all. Love you!!

Jules

vincentx90 2 years ago

They say that moving house is one of the most stressful things going... Well, just try it while in withdrawals!!!!!!!!!!

eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeek!

:D

alone in alabama 2 years ago

Join the group vincentx90! We are in the process of moving back to Nashville Tennessee so I know what you mean!!!! I have to get my son in school there...etc. Not to mention the money involved. I dread packing boxes. Especially since my husband is out of town alot.

vincentx90 2 years ago

I do NOT do AA/NA etc. groups

I am autistic, dx aspergers, groups are NOT suited to such types. Especially, when they are not specifically geared towards the needs of those on the autistic spectrum.

I am very much alone in this... I have no friends who are sympathetic as such... Pretty much the attitude is that i brought it on myself. Very true, but it doesn't help when you need encouragement, every ounce of it.

Phil.

vincentx90 2 years ago

I also completely disagree with tee-totalism for those that never had an addiction to alcohol in the first place, which I don't. In fact, I hate drinking more than just enough to get me merry when I do (on seldom occasions) visit the pub with my new (non-drug using) friends. These people do not like drinking a lot either.

I hate AA/NA. I find it repetitive and boring listening to the same crappy stories week after week from people who have already come through detox or quit cocaine (or whatever) and seem to be encouragement to rant on about it forever more.

As I get my life together I thoroughly look forward to reflecting on entirely different things. I am starting to do this already. I have hobbies such as playing guitar, writing music and photography, to name but a few.

Here is a photo I took last weekend in Broadstairs, Kent, on folk week weekend. http://www.flickr.com/photos/34832736@N04/38143905

All the best to you all, much love and encouragement to you all as always (just don't expect us all to be into 12 steps, I have my own God and my own faith thank you...).

vincentx90 2 years ago

not that i'm saying it isn't useful to rant and share while actually going through the withdrawals!!!

brian 68 2 years ago

Sorry to say but addiction is about escape from yourself and if you think a mind-altering substance such as alcohol is good for you: Good Luck! You can have your own God and you will need him. Perhaps withdrawals are lengthened by not allowing the Brain to heal.

vincentx90 2 years ago

If you can't use alcohol sensibly, on occasion, then that is your problem brian 68 not mine. Please don't force your views onto other people.

In other words, get a life and stay out of mine! :D

I am a christian, I believe in God, and in my faith the use of alcohol is widespread and healthy. It warms the hearts and is a wonderful thing at celebrations.

However, I know there are some people that suffer from addiction to alcohol and for those people I am sure that any use of alcohol carries dire consequences, christian or not.

I am not addicted to alcohol. It holds nothing over me. I actually turned to other drugs at a young age because I found getting drunk (i.e. being immature and drinking too much) to be extremely unpleasant.

Please go preach to your fellow NA peeps and leave us others alone Brian 68. I utterly disagree with you on this issue so just let us agree to disagree. We are all different and you seem to have forgotten this. Criticising the way I live is not how to help someone. It is character assassination and very unpleasant.

If you disagree with me then just keep your peace.

Shalom,

Phil.

vincentx90 2 years ago

PS

The idea that my having a couple of pints the other week while enjoying healthy socialising and entertainment has somehow slowed down my recovery is both silly, 'splitting hairs' and completely unscientific.

Au contraire, I found that night out to be extremely beneficial. It improved my confidence no end as I joined in the communal singing at the pub and it was a wonderfully friendly experience. You have extrapolated and presumed that somehow this lovely evening actually means I now go down the pub every day and drink 24/7.

I'm sorry your resolve is so weak that a beer could send you back into your addiction. If that is the case it is obvious you should not drink. Do not presume that other peoples' resolves are so weak.

For me personally, the only drugs that send me back into addiction are opiates. I go through a lot of physical pain, due to a neck injury, just because I refuse to take opioid painkillers. I hope with perserverance and the right exercise that the pain will eventually go away but I am prepared to live with it for the rest of my life.

vincentx90 2 years ago

Oh, and Brian, a word of advice... Do not judge people by your own yardstick. Oh, and... Do not judge! (doesn't your God tell you anything?

brian 68 2 years ago

Dream on

Jules 2 years ago

Hmmmmm I missed alot!

Day 29-WooHOo!!

So I've been at this for a month and I feel great. Don't get me wrong I still have some symptoms like anixety which seems to be the big one right now, legs are still achy, sleep is tough at times, but overall I'm doing good. Would I rather not deal with this absolutely but is it doable YES!!

So anyone out there going through all this keep going it gets better and you can survive this!! Best of luck! Get support whether it be AA/NA, family, or friends.

Phil- I just want to thank you personally for all your support through out my journey you have been a real inspiration to me and I look forward to reading your posts everyday. Keep fighting and take care. Much love!

Juels

vincentx90 2 years ago

Oh and Brian, if there is one thing I AIN'T doing right now it is dreaming! I'm living life out there in reality mate, maybe you should come join me and see for yourself if you can't trust what people say...

Jules,

Thank you once again for your encouragement. I'm not finding it as relatively 'easy' as you but I am definitely getting over this horrid w/d thing. My old character is returning and it shocked me just how much I'd forgotten who I was!

Big hugs and love to you too Jules my friend :) I look forward to your next post. (And not so much towards any from Brian, maybe time to just let sleeping dogs lie?)

vincentx90 2 years ago

oh, and the 'shock' of finding out who i am again is a VERY pleasant one :)

I'm starting to enjoy ordinary things again like gardening, cooking, music playing/listening/writing, reading books, writing prose. It's all slowly but surely coming back and is so delightful :)

I'm also in touch with the National Autistic Society (UK), and they are going to help me find work.

It really is incredible to be taking part in life again. How could I ever have not wanted this? Well, because I never knew back then that that evil habit would take over my whole life and try to ruin it forever!

Keep going everyone! The prize is ENORMOUS!!! Reality! Freedom! Happiness! (yes, life has it's knocks but you get all those good bits too :) but dealing with the knocks sober is also what life is about and creates character :)

Jules 2 years ago

30 DAYS!!! Woo Hoo!!!

Recovery Rocks!

Get clean and stay clean!!

brian 68 2 years ago

First of all vincent or Phil or whatever you're name is; I don't feel that I've been judging anyone here. In fact I'm also just trying to share my experience and maybe help someone.But you sound a bit like a Diva who cannot stand to hear a differing view. Remember, your RESOLVE was so strong that you ended up on Suboxone. Read your most recent posts, Drinking does NOT mean sobriety. You are in fact potentially leading those who trust you down the Primrose Path.Grow Up

c-poesy 2 years ago

i've been on sub for about 5 months now, 12mg a day dose.. and just reading all the comments regarding how hard it is to kick subs makes me both mad at myself for believing in this miracle drug, and super pissed at my clinic for feeding me a line of b.s.

I love all the people who have made a clean break off subuxone.. It gives me hope..

I tapered down to 20mg of methadone to get on subs as both my counselor and dr. said it would be so much easier to kick subuxone than methadone..

After doing mad research on this pill, i've realized it's just another substitute for an opiate and found some very alarming facts in the FDA's Suboxone research.. Did you know that sub stays in your body on avg. 11 days after your last dose, when stopping cold turkey.. Buphenorphine is 20 times as strong as morphine.. So when you get down to 1mg of sub you essentially are still at a very very high dose of medicine.....

Anyway, it's great to see people kick this with the will power of superman and wonderwoman... I start my decrease tomorrow and will tell you how it goes..

god bless..

" Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education alone will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan "press on" has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race. - ?John Calvin Coolidge"

c-poesy 2 years ago

"Jules says:

14 hours ago

30 DAYS!!! Woo Hoo!!!

Recovery Rocks!

Get clean and stay clean"

Bravo, bravo, bravo.. Keep it going Jules.. You give everyone hope that this evil drug can be slayed and abolished.. What I wouldn't give to be free of this miserable drug.. I'll keep everyone posted how my taper goes in the up and coming weeks and then the jump to freedom.. peace and god bless.

vincentx90 2 years ago

go for it c-poesy!

taper down as much as possible first ;)

i'm amazed that today, day 117 since stepping off, i am actually feeling like my old self, the guy before drugs, wow, it's so weird to be coming back!

and just to think that yesterday i wrote this:

day 116, aug 16th, sunday 2009

i want to die, i can't motivate myself to do anything, i want meds to take my mind off this shit

i know i'm almost better but still this horrid numbness is present in my mind, i can't bear it

...oh boy... but today i've made great progress! funny how one day can seem so bad and then the next can be so rewarding...

it does keep getting better and better, bupe is not freedom or sobriety, it's just as much an entrapment as heroin or any other 'opioid' analgesic

but don't panic, you can taper it down, you can step off, you can recover, if i can do it then ANYONE can do it because I'm the biggest whining neurotic in the world :P

so you stand a better chance than me, and you will do it!

Brian

vincentx90 2 years ago

er weird, it cut off my last bit and left the name Brian...

my name is Phil :) big love to my main man Brian ;)

look forward to hearing from you again Jules and glad things going well :)

keep us posted c-poesy

at the end of the day all opiates are shit to come off and PAWS can happen with any detox, it just has to be done if u want to get your life back and feel human again... funny how that psychiatrist on youtube who touts suboxone and was a junky himself and yet HE doesn't take suboxone...

anyway'se, peace and love to you all...

Phil.

vincentx90 2 years ago

well, it's a few minutes off 5am and I haven't managed to sleep yet, this isn't really due to any withdrawals, for the first time I'm actually not sleeping and not blaming it on PAWS etc. :) I have a raging ear infection that hasn't responded to 7 days of antibiotics

well, i'm gonna get in to see the doctor come rain or shine because this needs treating, moreso because I am NOT going to be accepting any script for opioid painkillers! I will have to tell the doc that those sorts of painkillers are just not an option as I'm sure that atm they would throw me right back into the hideous world of opiate addiction, 'even' something 'weak' like acetaminophen+codeine...

so, i'm just into day 118 and I can finally say that, despite my ear infection, I am glad to be alive for the first time in 20 odd years... :D :) and it's all thanks to quitting drugs and MOST of all those bloody opiates

man, when i was a kid there was that 'just say no' campaign, what a load of crap, it didn't show even a fraction of just how bad addiction to opiates is and the nightmare of withdrawals etc...

for me, right now, there is nothing worse in this world than opiate addiction, my addiction wrecked my life, now I want to start having some fun, enjoying life for what it really is and at last i can feel my body, my mind, I can think! I can talk to people in a nice way and not offend with my previous emotional bluntness...

if u ever think it is worth slipping back into opium world then please first remember just how sick it really is, it's twisted man, real twisted... and you'll have to come back from it and go through all that untwisting in your mind all over again... no NO no!

man, i'll have to be half dead and unconscious before a doctor ever puts an opiate into me...

i'd rather pain, suffering, distress, depression, anxiety, all the above, and of course beauty, serenity, peace, love, satisfaction, real pleasure and real feelings, yes this is what i can have without opiates...

with opiates i have nothing, without opiates I have everything I could ever need!

So, if you tapering then keep tapering, if you've stepped off already then keep on trucking through, it really really does end, the nightmare don't last forever and it is followed by the sweetest of dreams. No opiate ever gave me a feeling as good as real life!

But hang in there guys. There is a LOT of changes the body has to make and your nervous system might be far from recovered even when you think you are fine once more. The anhedonia (lack of, or reduced, ability to find pleasure in anything) can persist, at some level, for a long time. So, you might think you are recovered but at the same time find life a bit dull and the thought of relapsing may seem like a better alternative. It's a lie. You just haven't recovered completely. Life isn't dull. Hang on in there. Those brain cells, neurotransmitters and your mind will heal and then you'll see again what life is really all about.

Giving up opiates is the most important thing you will ever do. Do whatever it takes. I did! Not all my methods were conventional or even recommendable to others but they worked for me. I'm not going to go into any more detail as we are all different and need to find our own path through this. Just, when you step off, make it a priority to stay off opiates, that is the most essential thing.

I cried properly for the first time in goodness knows how many years last weekend. I was horribly upset but perversely it felt good afterwards. Well, let me rephrase that, it felt NORMAL.

Detox brought me to the edge of suicide. Sorry if that isn't encouraging but it's true. I really did consider it. But, heck, that was all part of returning my mind back to normal. I can't believe I was so scared of reality now because now that I'm here it isn't scary at all :) What was I afraid of? It was all just a nightmare that wasn't true.

Good luck everyone and to anyone reading this who is still in the deep throws of opiate dependency, be it subs or whatever, hang in there, there will come a time when your mind tells u it just ain't right. When that time comes, be kind to yourself, don't hate yourself, you are trying your best against a very big problem, taper yourself as much as possible before stepping off and be prepared for a mind fuck, but one which will go away and leave you fresh once again.

Phil.

alone in alabama 2 years ago

c-poesy.....big hugs to you! I have been off of subs for a month now and still my energy isn't up to par. I have headaches now. But.....I keep moving on....one day at a time!!!!

marker 2 years ago

Been yo yoing on cutting back on subs for 2-3 months. I sure know when my system gets low on the drug. Was down to one half of a 2ml X .05ml once a day but things got too bad so went back to 1 tab a day and things have leveled out for me. For now I don't want to think about jumping just maintain on an even keel. Been on subs for 2 years and started at two 8mg tabs a day. Biggest side effect I have are the taste, cant stand it. I did do a survey quite a while back and got paid like $75 for answering their questions. Had a lot of questions about the taste and if I would prefer a clear tasteless dose. Anyone else take the survey? Another side effect is the loss of sexual desires and can be a killer in a marriage or any intimate relationship. But there are medications to get back on track. I will ask my doctor the next time I see him.

As much as I would prefer not to be on any drugs at this time jumping completely off is way to scary from what I have read above and I am comfortable as of now.

Jules 2 years ago

SO I think today is 33 Days!

Still feel weird like not comfortable in my own skin and anxious alot but overall it's not so bad. I'm sleeping through the night about 6 hrs. It's crappy sleep but its sleep. My stomach is also still an issue but I really barely notice it. I aslo have little energy and little desire to do much but at least I'm not hurting. I look forward to loving things again. Just to plain feel again. I haven't had too many emotions through all this just pain and anger...I'm ready for the good ones to come. Well thank you all for listening to me babble on for a whole month. This little diary of mine had helped so much.

Take care everyone!!

vincentx90 2 years ago

lovely to hear from you again Jules! :)

oh yes, the feelings do come back, it does take quite a while but find whatever pleasure you can in the meantime to make it more bearable.

I know one thing for sure, it has been worth the wait just to start feeling normal again. And, at last, I really am starting to feel normal. It will just break through quite suddenly at some point. Probably will result in a great big release of tears, tears of happiness :)

marker:

I understand completely. I was on methadone for 2-3 years before I got to the stage i was ready to take whatever shit the withdrawals would throw at me. Even then I whittled down to a small dose and then caved in and transferred over to subutex for quite a while.

Just keep trying to take yourself by surprise. You have to creep up on the opiate monkey in a crafty fashion. Sometimes it just helps to have a little go at sobriety, suffer a bit, give up and go back on a small dose... It's no big deal doing that. It's not something to knock yourself about. I did that loads of times before becoming fully committed to stepping off completely.

Those previous attempts helped my resolve because they gave me moments of clarity where I could see how good life was without opiates. They were just flashes of clarity amidst a lot of suffering but eventually those moments gave me the determination to jump...

You sound like you are on the right road already marker. I can hear myself in the words you are saying. I was at that stage not so long ago :) Good man!

vincentx90 2 years ago

You haven't babbled on at all Jules.

It is always special to me and a pleasure to read your posts. I've missed them :)

Jules 2 years ago

Phil-

You make me smile :) Thank you!!

macy 2 years ago

hey im macy. i will be 19 friday. i am addicted to suboxone. i was on pain pills for four years then went to rehab for 9 months, which did no good for me. i got out and started right back taking them. so i heard about sub " oh so how great it was " whatever!! ive been on it now for 3 months and my insurance are no longer going to cover it plus my dad wants me to come off of it. needless to say i myself really want to come off just hate to go through the withdrawls. especially being i have to work 5 days a week. working and withdrawl i just dont think are going to go so great together :( i have three 8 mg left. i have been taking 2 mg a day for about a week. doin good for the most part so far but am experiencing sweats and very moody. i was just looking around on the internet about sub withdrawl and found this page and guys as i was reading some of your stories i just started crying....knowing what i am fixxin to face. the withdrawls i went through in rehab were rough. never thought i would have to experience this situation again. i live with my dad and he really doesnt know much about my problem or that i really have a problem so the family support really isnt here! i have been talking to this guy and hanging out with him about a month and he says he is here for me and willing to help and support me in any way possible. my email is pookeyboo08@yahoo.com if anybody would like to email me some tips!! i would really appreciate them! and to the ones that have overcome their addiction god bless you and stay strong dont let the enemie get you cuz you know hes trying. stay focused on what matters most in your life and always remember who got you through it ^^^^the good lord above!! thank him everyday! god bless you all again...macy! i will be checking back on this page.

vincentx90 2 years ago

Macy,

I have sent you an email. Hope it is of some help :s

I'm just an ordinary average human being who is going clean from opiates.

Look forward to hearing from you again, either email me or post here or both! Whatever you feel comfortable with.

Phil.

vincentx90 2 years ago

Jules,

If you are reading... *hugs* :)

queenie 2 years ago

Hey Ya'll, I recovered from this hell they call "subs" about 7 months ago and i'd like to tell you life is great! I feel good, look good and dont miss drugs one bit. I spent all summer working and kicking ass in school. Stuff drug addicts dont usually do and i enjoyed it (most of the time) i enjoy running with my ipod to get high. I wish you all encouragement and strenghth, i know it ain't easy but so fkn worth it!

Jules 2 years ago

OMG queenie you are like a celebrity on here... I read all your posts thanks for coming back and congrats on being clean.

I am still going strong I believe it is day 34.

Thats all I got now.

Phil *HUGS* right back at ya!

vincentx90 2 years ago

:(

not so good tonight, 3.50am, wide-eyed and wide awake, mind spinning, thoughts racing, I'm not necessarily blaming this on withdrawals as I am in some pain from my ongoing ear infection problem but I am getting seriously overtired as have already had one night of zero sleep this week plus the last two nights of half a night's sleep and now tonight even worse...

They say it "ain't over till the fat lady sings". Not my favourite expression but it kinda sums up how I'm feeling right now. Just when you think it is all over it still throws up a little surprise here and there.

Still, generally speaking, I am continuing to 'humanise'. Emotions, thoughts and feelings flooding back on-line at quite a pace and it is great. Earlier this evening I smiled and laughed at a TV programme in a way that I haven't for 20 odd years. It was like being a child again, in the sense of just not being aware or thinking about how my body and mind felt but instead just totally engrossed in the programme.

Additionally, if I was 100% sure that giving up opiates was the right idea before now, I'm now 200% sure. Non-opioid life is pretty darn incredible despite my current 'teething' problems.

Too tired and wired to say much else right now...

Warm greetings to you all.

Thanks queenie for the encouragement of your post :)

Phil.

Olympia 2 years ago

I have kicked suboxone twice now and am on day 4 of kicking them for the third time, I gotta say sub is a miracle drug for short term detox. the first two times I quit, I had a multi year heroin habit and did a free detox at a local chemical dependency center, they would give you one 8mg sub a day for five days and boot you out into the street. I don't know if its because of only taking 40mg total and not having it built up in my system but there was almost no withdrawal except wanting to use. this third time kicking sub I went and got a script i've taken 7 of the 18 (8mg), my doc prescribed and I am on day four of 0mg and it still isn't that bad. So I guess I just want to say if you are using sub for short term detox and you don't plan on doing maintainence it really is a miracle drug.

macy 2 years ago

phil-

replied back to your email. thanks!

vincentx90 2 years ago

Olympia, that is fascinating to hear. Yes, I have heard that subs are a miracle drug for short term fast detox from shorter acting opiates like heroin. From what I've read even the the 14 day sub detox is pretty much free from problems although the 5 to 7 day one sounds the best to me.

Yes indeed, using subs long term is where all the problems start. There are many posts about the subject of subs being great short term and nightmare'ish long term on this forum. Have a scroll up and look at older posts.

Good day to everyone,

Phil.

vincentx90 2 years ago

I have also replied to your reply Macy! :D

:)

vincentx90 2 years ago

come on guys and gals, don't give up posting just yet!

I know some of you might be experiencing unexpected problems with withdrawals and PAWS that have thrown you. You might well feel totally incapable of posting. Hang in there. You will get a good day again. Those good days will get more and more frequent as time goes on.

If some of you are not posting because you feel great and recovered and have 'moved on', then, tell us! It would be greatly encouraging for everyone to here about it :)

Whether it's negative or positive, post away!

As far as I'm concerned, I'm struggling with the whole sobriety thing at the moment. It isn't too bad but I'm tempted, at times, to relapse into drinking and such. I had my first meal out with friends where I didn't drink and they did. It really sucked. I felt miserable the whole time. Well, at the end of it I did leave happy instead of intoxicated and looking for the next high :) Albeit the happiness was mainly the relief of getting away from the situation lol

How you doing there Macy?

You ok Jules?

What you at Marker?

Best wishes, warmest regards and big hugs to all,

Phil.

Jules 2 years ago

Phil- Have no fear I am all good. I went to my mom's for the weekend so I didnt have a chance to post. I am still going stronge. I have my moments where it still sucks but I keep pushing through. Overall though live is good and I love being sober.

Hugs*

Jules

Jules 2 years ago

Phil- Have no fear I am all good. I went to my mom's for the weekend so I didnt have a chance to post. I am still going stronge. I have my moments where it still sucks but I keep pushing through. Overall though live is good and I love being sober.

Hugs*

Jules

vincentx90 2 years ago

great, glad everything is going so well for everyone

i want to kill myself but have run out of sleeping pills and don't fancy an unpleasant slipping away on something painful and poisonous...

C'est la vie...

ho hum...

Phil.

vincentx90 2 years ago

[quote]Brian 68 says:

10 days ago

Sorry to say but addiction is about escape from yourself and if you think a mind-altering substance such as alcohol is good for you: Good Luck! You can have your own God and you will need him. Perhaps withdrawals are lengthened by not allowing the Brain to heal.

brian 68 says:

7 days ago

First of all vincent or Phil or whatever you're name is; I don't feel that I've been judging anyone here. In fact I'm also just trying to share my experience and maybe help someone.But you sound a bit like a Diva who cannot stand to hear a differing view. Remember, your RESOLVE was so strong that you ended up on Suboxone. Read your most recent posts, Drinking does NOT mean sobriety. You are in fact potentially leading those who trust you down the Primrose Path.Grow Up

Brian 68 says:

9 days ago

Dream on

[end quote]

Interesting, the only dream i'm having at the moment is of feeding you, Brian68, into a food dispenser and then cremating the results just to make sure you are completely and utterly dead.

It's just a shame you live so far across the pond. Otherwise I could come round and kick the living daylights out of you. Preferably this would leave you feeding out of a tube in your neck for the rest of your life. Oh and I'm sure the hospital would give you plenty of opiates for the pain...

In other words, I think you a prick, you think I am a prick. I hate NA and think it sucks, you think it is wonderful.

In other words we will never ever see eye to eye. But on a bad day like today I reflect on your previous nasty comments and it does nothing but bring out the very nastiest comments from myself.

Thank you for provoking me...

You are such a wonderful blessing, not.

Phil.

Jules 2 years ago

Day 38??? Maybe I really have to keep better track. Anyway I am doing pretty good these days I just wish I had more energy. I don't want to do anything. Just making my daughter breakfast, lunch, and dinner takes all I have. But I slept 10hrs last night that was amazing! I really feel my old self coming back hell I am even funny again.

Thanks for everyone's encouragement. I will post again soon.

Jules

theswan 2 years ago

Hello everyone

I am on suboxone for over a year and a half. I did ok for a long time but for several months insomnia and anxiety crept into my life. I started suboxone because chronic pain led me down the path of misusing opioids. I am in AA recovery and heted to be on any drug.

Anyway damage is done. I stsrted at 16mg and have gone down to 4-6mg the last month. I took 3mg at 4am and now dearly want to stop the suboxone. I'd hate to take even one more 2mg pill!

Darn it I have anxiety/insomnia to beat the band-what the heck if I stop the sub now? I feel like I'll die if I do not start a detox in earnest.

I am on another site that is in full favor as I was of suboxone and they seem to insisit the anxiety is "unresolved conflicts" boloney! it is the suboxone! I swear it is. I've worked the twelve steps over and over as well as having therapy. Yes I'm a bit screwed up from an abusive upbringing etc but am otherwise usually in good spirits and I have a rich spiritual belief as well as religious belief in God.

In a nutshell, am I crazy to want to stop cold turkey at 3mg? will my anxiety cause me to want to die?

I need help and I really need to get off of this drug

Thanks

Glen theswan

By the way thanks Phill, queenie and all for the hope you offer

vincentx90 2 years ago

Glen theswan,

I know exactly how you feel in the desperation to get off subs as quickly as possible. They were making me ill. They caused me terrible, suicidal depression due to the awful numbness and lack of any stimulation in my brain.

I gave up with my psychiatrist because I got so angry with him because his answer was to put the dose up when I was trying to keep reducing.

But, if you can, it really would be better to carry on tapering. You could even try leaving it for 48 hours till the next dose. There are various things you can try.

But if you really feel you have no choice then I don't doubt that you can do the jump from 3mg. I'm quite sure you are capable of it. It will send you a bit crazy but no doubt you'll find a way through.

I know what you mean about being a bit screwed up anyway. I am pretty badly screwed up myself, emotionally and psychologically and all that. A lot of opiate addicts are screwed up in various ways. That's why we found them so addictive, because they (temporarily) numbed our emotional pain, lifted our depressions and softened our anxieties. But, as we all know, in the long run the opiates cause even more problems than they ever originally 'solved'.

When coming off the opiates we then have to address all the original problems we were running away from.

An example of how screwed up I am is my previous post where I'm ranting about Brian68. I really do have a screw loose but underneath my heart is in the right place. I just go a bit mad from time to time. I got dx'ed with aspergers syndrome which has kinda helped me understand a bit about why I am like I am. But, it isn't as straight forward as that. I have had a lot of abusive experiences and am very hurt, withdrawn, distrusting, frightened, agoraphobic and full of social anxieties.

Something happened when I was about 18 that destroyed my trust in the human race. Maybe that is why i find it easier to communicate on-line, who knows...

Jules,

Great to hear from you. Really great to hear you are trucking on. The lack of energy and enthusiasm is a real bind but your body is recovering every single day.

Fantastic news about you getting that 10 hour sleep. I bet you needed it! :)

Great to hear from you Glen theswan. And very sweet of you to thank us. I'd like to thank you for your encouragement in posting your current experience on the site and for being so honest. We are just the same as you Glen but if we can be of any help then don't hesitate to ask.

I have a pretty anonymous email that people are free to contact me on: vincentx90@live.com should they so wish... Otherwise, I do drop in here quite regularly and check to see what is new.

Love and hugs to all,

Phil.

Barney F 2 years ago

Ive been on sub for one year. I have been slowely tapering down now for a couple months. I thought I was being clever by doing only a fraction of a pill a day. Reading the comments on this page has been hard. I had no idea sub was so bad to get off. Ofcourse I wasnt told. Reliving that nightmare does not sound fun. I have problems with depression and anxiety disorder on top of it...which feeds off the withdrawl. It would be easier with out the anxiety and depression I already have ..that is for sure.

Some of the comments have been encouraging. I got to do this. Its nice to know Im not the only one. Not that I wish this on anyone. Wish me luck. You will be in my prayers..as I am sure to be doing more of it in the next weeks.

vincentx90 2 years ago

Barney F,

Please remember that withdrawing is different for every person. You won't necessarily experience the same level of discomfort. But, if you do, then at least you know you are not alone and that it is a normal part of the process.

I think you might have gathered already that it's recommendable to taper down as low as you can possibly go, gradually, before stepping off. This will lessen the intensity and duration of any RLS you 'might' get.

Yes, the withdrawals feed the pre-existent anxiety and depressive problems but being free from the drug can also cause surprisingly positive side effects too. For example, I am experiencing less depression problems since stopping subs. The anxiety was bad but I'm even getting to grips with that now albeit slowly. My emotional state isn't great but it never was. I'm just relearning how to cope with my natural ups and downs, getting used to myself again.

good luck and look forward to your next post,

Phil.

theswan 2 years ago

29 hours away and feel like heck!

Thanks for the good comments. Too sick to post much now

Glen

vincentx90 2 years ago

Glen,

sorry to hear you are very sick atm with withdrawals

things really do start to improve after time, I'm not sure where you are with it all atm, did you jump from 3mg? that's a pretty big drop... bupe is 20x potency of morphine, dose for dose... so that's jumping from 60mg morphine or maybe a bit less because morphine is normally administered IV, either way it's a big drop...

the worst bit for me at the start of complete withdrawal was the restless legs (and my arms twitched aswell), i had to slow down my taper at one point due to the rls being too intense

Phil.

theswan 2 years ago

thanks Phil and I did go off morphine 300mg in 2002 so they 60mg does not scare me too much although they used a taper of methadone in a 7 day detox. If it is somewhat less then that detox I should be ok

I'm 60 plus hours away from my last does so I hope it is near peak

Neil 2 years ago

Reading through these comments is some scary S***!

I first took Suboxone in Feb of last year, for a thrill, just to see what it was like. I took about 2mg of an 8mg pill. I had never really done opiates before, so i ended up spending 4 hours in the bathroom throwing up. However, I went back to it, and began taking subbys 'every now and then'. I stopped taking them at the beginning of this year, Had NO withdrawls (i was only taking like 1mg or less at a time, but i ended up out of work in Feb. Since then, ive been taking it regularly. Apart from a 1 week break, i have been on subbys most nights since May of this year. Primarily to kill the boredom of unemployment. But of late, I have started to notice that i need to take more and more of this stuff to get the same high. the most i have taken so far in one day is 4mg. BTW, ive been buying the subbys off a 'dealer'.

I am scared that i may have withdrawls from this if i stop now. I'd like to know what you guys think. Please reply to me.

vincentx90 2 years ago

brian 68,

Words fail me...

Go in peace.

Phil.

vincentx90 2 years ago

Brian 68,

On further reflection I feel it is necessary that I comment thus:

I am sick and tired of our little battle. I have let you provoke me into feeling angry and hateful in the past. I do not see why I should let your words continue to affect me in such a way.

I just want to recover and be at peace. I really can not cope with our squabble. Please let us put an end to it now. I am not apportioning blame. I am asking that it does end NOW.

People come here for help, hard facts and encouragement, not to listen to us two fight it out.

Please stop accusing me of various things. I am an ordinary human being with manifold weaknesses and failings. There will always be something that I can be criticised about.

Please, please, please, let us both remember from now on that this site is about recovery. Both our behaviours towards each other are getting out of control.

I forgive you for any and all comments that you have made that I feel have offended me. Please, can you forgive me for the comments I have made in the past that have offended you. I realise my former bluntness, something I do struggle with, has offended you. I freely confess I have done wrong by you and indeed by many in my lifetime.

Now, because of my energy being sapped by our battle, I haven't atm got the strength and concentration to reply to the other new posts. Hopefully I will be able to do so later.

Brian 68, if you feel I am dominating the page then you can quite simply start to contribute more, as much as you like. This page is totally free to be posted to as often, as frequently and as by as many people as so wish.

I would be very relieved to see more people contribute to the requests and needs of others. However, I come here and see important questions and honest declarations of suffering, and yet I see noone, or very few, responding. My heart aches for others suffering and in need at such a difficult, frightening and confusing time.

Brian 68, post more! Then you might remember that it is in fact hard work making these posts. I have to give a great deal of thought to them. I have to read and re-read the new posts to try and understand, as best as I can, where the other person is at and what advice/encouragement/empathy they need.

If other people on this site would like me to stop posting and not come back then please do tell me.

I will abide by any such decision and will never come back, either to read or post, ever again.

If others are not troubled by my being here then I shall continue to be myself and carry on as before.

Now, due to the unpleasant necessity of this post I have no energy or concentration left to respond to the more important jobs at hand, namely responding to Neil's and Glen theswan's posts.

Thank you both for posting. I will come back later once I've rested.

Please Brian 68, let this be an end to our bickering or, at the very least, let us both keep our peace and not antagonise each other any more.

Phil.

Neil 2 years ago

Good Greif! Will you guys stop arguing?!

Anyway, Its now 6;23am. Ive just got up to go to the toilet, so i'll be heading back to bed soon!

Last bit of Bupe i had was @ 6pm last night. A tiny amount, maybe 0.25mg. Today is my 'scoreday'.

Im going to buy one, but leave it at my mates house, just in case there are any nasty withdrawals.

Im not taking this stuff any more!

I'll keep you guys posted every 24 hours, but so far, i feel very tired and sleepy (ive only had 4 hours!), i know i'll get back to sleep(ive had insomnia before).

And i'm going to tell the other users that i hang out with about how dangerous this stuff is.

I hope you guys are'nt still fighting when i get back.

Peace.

Neil

aussie steve 2 years ago

just checking if i can get on

aussie steve 2 years ago

just checking if i can get on

theswan 2 years ago

darn it! I got very sick and took 2ng at 1 in the morning. How bad does this set me back? I was t the point of leg kicking and violent thrashing about. Last time this was the start of the worst and near end of it.

please tell me I can get off of this stuff. At the NAABT site they all tell me to taper slow and if I could I would but am too sick of the suboxone. I want to be off!

Thanks for any good words

Glen theswan

vincentx90 2 years ago

Glen theswan,

You really do need to taper down more slowly. I did post about the rls (restless legs syndrome, kicking). I had to go back on a lower dose to cope with the rls and then taper more slowly.

I know how you feel, how desperate you are to get off the stuff. But, take it a bit slower! See how long you can last on the one 2mg tab you took. Next time the rls starts don't wait for it to get so bad and then try just 1mg and see how that goes.

At least 2mg is less than your previous dose of 3mg so you ARE making progress.

Yes, it IS possible to get off subs. I am 5 months off them now. It ain't a pretty ride but it's doable. Most of my problems now are the psychological stuff but I was fucked up before I got hooked on opiates anyway...

Phil.

Neil 2 years ago

I have been about 25 hours subbie free. So today i suppose is Day One. I have been out and about today, just walking around town to kill time and expend some energy.

Occasionally i get a 'hot flush', sometimes with sweat, but it only lasts a few minutes. The hot flushes feel like fever symptoms, or like you are wearing a sweater in hot weather. I scored a pill (8mg) but havent touched it.

I have a feeling that tonight i may have insomnia, but we will see.

I don't think my withdrawals are going to be a quater as bad as most if not all the folks that have posted here. I hope so anyway.

I'll post again this time tommorow.

vincentx90 2 years ago

aussie steve,

You need to start tapering down before christmas. Ideally get down to 0.5mg or 0.4mg (if u can get the smaller 0.4mg tabs in australia). Better still, get down to 0.25mg/0.2mg.

Jumping at 2mg will give you quite a kick. It AIN'T a small dose. It's equivalent, IV, to 40mg of morphine. The standard 'slug' of morphine they give u in hospital for acute pain is 10mg and that knocks a non-tolerant person for six and 20mg would knock them out altogether.

Hope is of some help... :s

Phil.

vincentx90 2 years ago

Neil,

Hope all goes well for you. Look forward to your next post.

Phil.

vincentx90 2 years ago

aussie steve et al.

i have recently been prescribed propranolol, a beta blocker. It blocks the release of noradrenaline. I was very cynical about it but a few hours after taking my first pill I am experiencing a significant decrease in my symptoms of racing heart, anxiety, sweating and restlessness.

I don't know if it would be as effective when the withdrawals are more severe but could certainly be worth a try. It isn't physically addictive.

I have used zopiclone to help with long term insomnia. I don't find it very effective but it gave a little relief. My doctor also has, on occasion, given me very short (a few days) course of diazepam to get me through some acute episodes where I was losing the plot completely. Of course, diazepam can be very addictive psychologically and also physically after a couple of weeks and should be used with extreme caution. I am aware that zopiclone has the same potential for addiction but personally I haven't had a problem with it as it has been only a very mild help. I go nights without using it and only try it again when sleep is becoming a problem once more.

When my insomnia was at it's worse I found the seroquel more effective than the zopiclone in enabling me to get off to sleep and then remain asleep for a reasonable time. My occasional zopiclone dose is 7.5 to 15mg at night. My seroquel dose is prescribed at 2x25mg tabs 3 times a day. I take it only at night as I don't like the thick head it gives me during the day. Seroquel is a non-addictive drug with no physically addictive properties at all. It is helpful in slowing down or eliminating racing thoughts.

Propranolol has the obvious advantage of not being physically or psychologically addictive. It was/is a drug used to treat high blood pressure and also tachycardia (which is a symptom of withdrawals). You should not stop taking it unless under the supervision of a doctor.

Please don't forget to taper down to as tiny a dose as possible before jumping. This will also help any drugs you take, to lessen the withdrawals, more effective and at lower doses.

The only drug that helped with rls for me was diazepam but again this is a very short term option due to it's physically addictive qualities let alone the psychological ones.

I went through the worst of my withdrawals, the first 6 weeks, without any medications at all. I don't think I needed to suffer that much but my psychiatrist refused to prescribe me anything at all, not even beta blockers. It was as if he was only interested in me getting back on subs as he would always offer to up the sub dose, or start it all over again, despite the fact that the drug was making me mentally ill and I just had to come off it.

Phil.

theswan 2 years ago

I took 1mg today but really want to stop it at that. I will try CT tonight.

How many days will it be bad? Morphine took 6 days but after 4 or 5 days it got a little better. I hear sub is milder and hope that is so.

Thanks

Neil 2 years ago

48 hours since my last bit of Bupe.

I slept well last night, got about 7 hours. Hot flushes have subsided but are still there.

I honestly think that i am NOT addicted to these, but have come close.

To anyone how takes this stuff for a cheap 'hit': Beware! it creeps up on you, before you know it, you'll be snorting 16mg a day to get the same buzz as 0.5mg you had in the beginning.

Another theory i have about this is; People on here have been hooked on P/K's or H for years and were prescibed this to come off Heroin or whatever, yet all this drug soes is create a kind of Dam, to hold back the waters of withdrawal. Once the drug is no longer taken, the dam breaks and all hell lets loose.

vincentx90 2 years ago

Glen theswan,

Don't be too hard on yourself if you find you need to take another 1mg or even 0.5mg if the rls gets too bad again. Just see how far you can get but don't wait until it is so bad that you feel like taking a higher dose. Pain feeds pain, anxiety feeds anxiety, if you know what I mean.

Sub withdraws tend to last a lot longer than morphine and other short acting opiates. But, they are milder, just longer lasting. It's different for everyone, but that is the general picture I get from comparing my own experience with others on this site.

Neil,

I'm sure there is a lot of truth in what you say. I was hooked on 140mg methadone for quite a while plus topping up with other drugs on a regular basis. I was a poly-drug addict for the best part of 20 years. I have other emotional problems too, as I'm sure many of you do, dysfunctional family, lack of support over the years when I was crying out for it, etc... and last but probably most relevant is that I have chronic PTSD. Basically, I'm a mess sober but at least I am dealing with all the shit now and getting more help rather than anaethetising myself into catatonia and ultimately death. I am recovering.

Best wishes to all,

Phil.

theswan 2 years ago

felt good today with less anxiety after my 1mg dose this morning.

I want to tough it out and stop but if I must will take another .5mg I am so sick of it I want off so bad.

I do not mind a longer withdrawal if it is not savage like pure agonist opioids are. Sadness and some trouble sleeping I can live with acute depression/anxiety/insomnia is a whole other story. I carry anxiety very poorly. I pray God is gentle with me as I so very much want freedom

Glen

Neil 2 years ago

Thanks Phil,

Over the last 22 years, Ive done a wide variety of drugs but was educated enough to stay away from Heroin. I have never been hooked on any particular drug, although i admit, i was borderline alcoholic about 5 years ago without realising it (drinking 4 days a week to the point of leglessness ect)and up until about a year ago, a regualr potsmoker.

It was 15 years ago, after a particular bad comedown off speed that someone gave me a DF118 (DiHydrocodiene - i dont know what its called in U.S)and since then, I always looked upon DF's as a 'nice buzz', and would occasionally take these whenever they were available.

It was last year, I asked an ex-heroin user, if he had any DF's that he offered me Subutex which he said had the same effect, but a lot stronger. In truth, this guy is using his script as beer money - He's a boozer - selling them at £4 per 8mg tablet - which, when you think about it, is a pretty cheap thrill that would last me, in the beginning a week, but more recently, just 3 or 4 days with me.

I admit, i am a thrill seeker. Perhaps i dont have the addictive gene that many addicts have (there is no history of addiction in my family)and i cannot promise that i'll never take this again. But what I CAN promise, is that i will use caution, and only take this occasionally - maybe once or twice a month.

Its been 51 hours since i had a negligble amount of sub, I feel normal. No headaches, nausea, ect. I did have a bit of sweating yesterday and this morning, but thats gone.

I wish all of you the BEST of luck in getting off this, and living your lives as best as you can, because this is the only life you will ever have, make the most of it!

All the Best to everyone,

Neil

vincentx90 2 years ago

Can't reply much now. Just to say that, Neil, I am in the UK too. You are still playing a very dangerous game. I began my opiate psychological addiction on codeine and DF118's. I really loved the DFs. Abusing opiates is something to avoid altogether. If something bad happens you'll revert to them as a method of coping. It just happens like that. I don't believe in any addictive gene bollox. No one else in my family is addicted to anything.

Also, 8mg subs are sold for as little as £2 in this country. Get a refund!

Gwen theswan,

Hopefully all will be fine. But, the acute depression/anxiety/insomnia problems can happen. They did to me and I ended up in a psychiatric ward at one point because of it. Forewarned is forearmed. Yet, we are two different people and everyone can react differently.

Best wishes to both you,

Phil.

Neil 2 years ago

Hi Phil,

I know what ive been doing is dangerous. I know i said before that id take occasionally, but now im having second thoughts (even before reading your latest post) and thinking about not taking it AT ALL.

In less that a month, I will be starting an Access to Higher Education course, so I can get into University as a mature student (im 36) next year, so i will be very busy and occupied with my time very soon.

The reason ive been taking these is primarily boredom, not being able to go out thru lack of money ect. Everything costs money when it comes to socialising. And living on £60 a fortnight makes socialising nigh on impossible.

If I was paying £2 per tab, I would definately have been hooked by now!

I dont see any need to post here anymore, but im glad that i have, for now i am more educated about this stuff.

I guess im lucky in just getting my hand burned, as it were, with opiates, and not been the fully fledged dependant.

I will keep it that way.

Neil

vincentx90 2 years ago

Make sure you do Neil, otherwise you'll end up wishing you were never born...

theswan 2 years ago

any way to get to the bottom of this page without scrolling? it takes a long time!

Ended up taking 1mg or close to it as my anxiety is so high.

How does anyone live with this level of anxiety? I cannot take benzo's as I become dependant fast. My life is revolved around the bedroom watching TV and I am sick of it. I got out yesterday to the gym as I had a few hours relief from anxiety. I guess I should be happy with that but it is fleeting. I am afraid I can not CT from this drug and have to say at 1mg for now. Will i get well anyway? I know no one can really anxwer that but this crap about milder withdrawl is really obsurd.

I bearly got to the leg kicking part and was overwhelmed!

Dear God please help me!

Glen

bfw68 2 years ago

Phil, Peace to you and hopefully we can be on the same team. Part of addiction is control-freak related and we don't always respond well when others don't agree with us(me). If I might for those looking to jump; 2mg is a sizeable dose. If you've been using these things for awhile it's best to taper as best to a microscopic dose. But if your goal is freedom from Subs beware; There Are No Free Rides!! There will absolutely be lengthy WD'S and anxiety. insomnia and this is where you MUST be STRONG. Hang in there and believe a better life is coming. Slowly.

vincentx90 2 years ago

Brian 68,

Peace to you too. I'm glad we have stopped bickering. I am also delighted at your post. I'm struggling to keep up with it all on my own. I need your help. Your comments are most appreciated and extremely useful to us all.

Glen theswan,

You seem to be having the same reaction as me to sub withdrawal. My anxiety went through the roof. In fact, I've never experienced anxiety so bad in my entire life even when going CT from short acting opiates and my CT from a huge valium habit I had.

But take heart that you will settle down on 1mg. It won't be too long before 1mg is more than enough and you'll not be having any anxiety other than the desire to taper down some more.

Note what Bfw68 said, it's true. You can lessen the intensity of rls (kicking) and anxiety/insomnia by tapering down to as tiny a dose as possible, gradually as possible. But, when you do eventually step off, even from a 'tiny' dose, there will indeed be no free ride.

You seem to have the same anxiety problems as myself. I would be interested in talking further to you about this issue as there might be another factor involved here. I don't want to talk about it in the forum as it is not directly related to sub withdraws, more indirect. My email is vincentx90@live.com

Best wishes to all,

Phil.

Neil 2 years ago

Well, im still Sub free; it'll be 96 hours at 6pm since i last had any. I have slept well enough everynight and feel normal.

After reading these posts, I keep expecting to keel over at somepoint but i dont think thats going to happen.

Good luck to everyone!

theswan 2 years ago

it was too much for me and I took 2mg yesterday and 2mg today.

I feel like a failure but my anxiety was too strong. I feel better today and have decided to try and stay the course of slow reduction as it may be the only way. My new goal is off subs by Christmas.

I think a slight reduction of 1/2mg per month will do it. September will get me to-wait, maybe January!

in any case please continue to offer me advice as I sorely need help.

Glen

vincentx90 2 years ago

Glen,

You haven't failed at all. Going from 3mg to 2mg is a major reduction. The fact that 2mg is now enough is great news. You've succeeded in getting one step further to your goal.

I think your idea of dropping 0.5mg a month is an excellent idea and very similar to what I did myself. Going under 2mg is where it does get more difficult. I dropped from 8mg to 4mg without much of a problem but as soon as I started tapering below 2mg it was a completely different story, much like yourself.

From 2mg I tapered in steps of 0.4mg. In UK we have 0.4mg tabs so this wasn't difficult with regards to needing to cut up the tabs. Once down to 0.4mg a day I tried to jump but couldn't handle it so I stayed on 0.4mg for 2 months. Then I jumped but still struggled too much so tried 0.2mg for a couple of weeks. I probably should have stuck at 0.2mg for longer but jumped all the same.

I know slow tapering is a pain in the arse but it will enable you to reach your goal of being free from subs.

Best wishes,

Phil.

brian 68 2 years ago

Glen, you have not failed in any way. This is serious shit and 2mg is a lot stronger than you think. When I jumped I was taking a CRUMB-sized piece and that would keep me calm all day. This is why it is so difficult to prevent relapse. The anxiety and obsession are too much but at some point everyone has to conjure up the inner strength. One of the best ways is too get some people to talk to and keep your mind busy. Good Luck

Neil 2 years ago

This is going to be my very last post here.

I'd like to Thank everyone who has told their tales of woe (and victory) of what opiates can lead us to.

I'd like to share this video with everyone. Im not religious, in fact, im agnostic/atheist, but this video applies to everyone, and it certainly puts things into perspective, and is incredibly uplifting:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p86BPM1GV8M

Carl Sagan, Pale Blue Dot.

Farewell everyone, I hope you all reach your goals.

Neil

vincentx90 2 years ago

post alive!

vincentx90 2 years ago

still alive!

Jules 2 years ago

I am still alive!!

Just nothing exciting to report. Still clean! I will post later though.

XOXOX

distractedbyreality 2 years ago

Hello everyone, I have been reading this hub for the last few days, and i must say, i have never felt less alone in this world! I was addicted to opiates for over two years now, started with vicodin that i got for free from a friend, then to percocet, then to OC 80's. My "friend" who used to get the OC's for me quit and gave me suboxone when i told him I also wanted to quit. I just started noticing how much the PK's were killing everything in my life but the pain, and I had enough! I have a great g/f who was starting to really despise me and my addiction (although she is with me 110% now that i've made the jump), and i haven't worked a real job in almost a year, barely surviving on odd jobs that have introduced me to some of the most selfish and horrible ppl i have ever met. I have been free of the OCs for three weeks today, and free from the subs for 10 days. vincentx90, i sympathize greatly for you. I too have serious problems with groups and anxiety, which is what led me to my opiate problems in the first place. I never even considered autism until i started reading your posts. i live in the US where it seems that autism and its relatives are not very well understood or accepted, maybe things are different in the UK, or my agoraphobia and hatred of mass media (especially TV) just make it seem that way to me LOL! I have been addicted to benzos twice, valium and xanax, and i have to say this is 1000x harder than both combined. I feel for every single soul that has left there mark on this site, and i hope and pray that each of you will find your way and learn to live again! with much love,

-distracted

vincentx90 2 years ago

man, i'm sure a lot of the long term WDs are caused by the psychological turmoil rather than physical addiction?

was reading some earlier posts, few months back, some guy saying he was playing chicken with buses, i was doing that yesterday... i still struggle to keep my head up without having a psychoactive drug buzzing up my brain...

things are still getting better. at the end of the day, i spent 20 years abusing drugs and now i've got to learn to motivate myself without chemicals and that is going to be hard...

laterz..

Phil.

vincentx90 2 years ago

distractedbyreality:

If you wanna find out about whether you have an autism spectrum disorder (ASD) then get to see someone who specialises in this area, regular doctors without experience in autism are shit and misdiagnose all the time.

The US is about the same as the UK with regards to autism related stuff. I only got diagnosed last year at the age of 35.

Email me about it if you want further info at vincentx90@live.com

Phil.

vincentx90 2 years ago

keep the post alive!

had my first proper nights sleep, about 8 hours, following a long day and plenty of socialising, took my mind off myself and seemed to do the trick even though it was hard work

looks like getting back into being fully active will be the key to my recovery, be it voluntary work or whatever... (i'm unemployed atm)

Hope to see some new posts soon, with hints, tips, tales of woe and encouragement etc...

Phil.

brian 68 2 years ago

Hey Phil, I was talking to a guy the other day who went on Subs after snorting 10 80mg oxys a day. This kicked his ass and he told me it took him about 6 months to feel better. Not that he always felt shitty but "something wasn't right". Hang in and try listening to some good music. It can calm the savage beast.

vincentx90 2 years ago

Brian 68,

ty for the advice and info... it does help to know the truth about how long it takes to be 'normal' again

bupe is evil shit, i remember a few years back doing a short term detox on dihydrocodeine (after long term opiate abuse), i went from 32 30mg tablets a day down to 16 tabs a day, then 8, then 4, then zero... in a month, and it was pretty much painless, yes i struggled with cravings after the final jump but that was all, didn't even lose any sleep...

bupe taper and withdraw (after long term bupe 'maintenance') has been worse than the methadone (long term, taper and withdraw) one I did previously... and man, that was bad enough...

i know all opiate abuse, at the end of the day, is just a total nightmare, I so hope I never go back to them ever, I'm sad and angry that I ever got into this addiction as I know I'll never be free from the temptation for the rest of my life.

What's worse right now is that I have been diagnosed with gall stones which is aggravating my existing acid reflux problem. I can't eat without suffering a lot of pain for hours afterwards. I only take acetaminophen but I fear the day I might end up in such crippling pain that i need to go to hospital and get a morphine shot (this is what happened to my dad with same complaint).

If the pain is so intense that I'm incapacitated and hospitalised will the in-patient pain relief get me hooked again? (I know that leaving the hospital with a script would definitely get me hooked again and that ain't gonna happen, I've already told them about my opiate addiction problems).

Any ideas much appreciated, and thanks again for your post Brian, it has helped me a great deal, don't feel so confused and alone about it all now.

Phil.

Richard 2 years ago

ohhh man i wish i never got on suboxone in the first place. I convinced myself i needed a crutch so i could get some clean time under my belt before i joined the "real world" again.

Today is day 5 for me and i still feel like shit, haven't slept in 4 and im going to the bath room every 15 mins to either puke,gag,diarrhea or sometimes all of the above.

yesterday i decided to clean my room and guess what i found a 2mg piece, took the edge off thank the lord.

Anyone have any methods or ideas that can help with the pain and sleep. I found taking hot baths with EPSON salt works really good

vincnetx90 2 years ago

yeh, it sucks huh?

only advice i have is to see a sympathetic doc for meds to help with cramps and stuff

also, try and get out as much as possible, being alone is a nightmare with withdrawals as one is not comfortable with oneself...

hope is of some help :s

if anyone got any advice about my previous post then please respond...

queenie 2 years ago

Hi everyone, 7 months off subs and loving life. what seems so hard (and is) to do, is so worth it. Be strong and get thru it. A month of not feeling good turns out to be worth every second of it when your free of those shackles. Anytime i think of getting high i come back to this site and read my (and others) posts and I'm swayed towards sobriety once again. you guys are awesome! take care

Double Trouble 2 years ago

I am on day 4 w/d with subs (9 month habit)

I am on day 4 of a breakup (5 1/2 year habit)

and....ta-dahhhh I just got my period - it never fails

This is my personal version of hell on earth.

The backache from sub w/d is bad enough, but when you add the period and the fact that I was thrown from a horse a year ago and broke my back into the mix, it is unbearable. Does anybody have any ideas????

In adition to the backache, I have all of the classic w/d symptoms, but chief among them is the anxiety and depression. A good measure of this is likely a result of the breakup; however, I felt it necessary to get away from the man who introduced me to pills (all types) originally, and who has continued to feed my habit for years. No, he did not hold a gun to my head, but he certainly was more than happy to reintroduce me to pills in moments of weakness even after I had made it out of the woods with countless, painful withdrawals. Maybe it's just too much all at once, but I know that I will never be sober, and never get off suboxone for good with him in the picture. Am I just a masochistic idiot, or would you attempt to go thru a breakup and w/d simultaneously as well given the circumstances?

vincentx90 2 years ago

in some ways it can even help because the break-up can take your mind off the withdrawals (albeit in not a very nice way)

the opiate monkey is cunning, catch him off card and u can beat this...

life on opiates = no life

Phil.

Double Trouble 2 years ago

It takes a clever person to put a positive spin on such a brutal experience :)

Thanks for the smile, Phil - needed that.

Double Trouble 2 years ago

Day 5 - the worst day so far.

I feel like I have the flu; I am so weak I can't sit up for more than 5 minutes. It took me 3 hours to convince myself to at least brush my teeth. Can't stop crying - this sucks. I can't write anymore.

vincentx90 2 years ago

i know the feeling...

i remember at one point not properly washing for 2 weeks...

at least the crying shows you are in recovery, emotions coming back online, that is a good thing, sob your heart out, it helps... not being able to cry is worse...

things will get better, a little bit, day by day

Phil.

NIKOLE 2 years ago

You know I think its quite sad that people are complaining about being on subs..thats crazy!! Yeah you're body is dependent as if it were pills or dope...yet subs relieve you of searching for shit on the street everyday just to feel NORMAL. I dunno maybe their addiction wasnt like mine..anyway I have been on subs for exactly two years..coming off of 80's and percocet...vicodn or lortab as a last resort..but I did my research and I knew what it was going to be like gettin on the subs as well as getting off..I had taken about 10 oxycontin 20's a day for 9 days straight..first day of WD i refuse to take the sub just yet...2nd day of withdraw I thought I was dying..took 2 subs....third day my mom is takin me to the hospital..I was so sick I thought I was going to die..but after that..Ive been able to get back to a some what "normal" life... and tapering down as we speak..my dr told me to taper down a fourth at a time..and when I get to my last fourth I can stop after a week..does anyone have any opinions about this?? Im sorta nervous..sub wd is not as bad as 80's yet the whole wd thing freaks me out and really brings back bad memories..any inputs??

vincentx90 2 years ago

You'll soon complain a few days after jumping from subbies...

Double Trouble 2 years ago

Phil - thanks again for your words of encouragement. I'm going through this alone, so your thoughts & comments really help. The good news is that I think I peaked out yesterday. Despite 2 hours of sleep, I do feel a little bit better today...whew

Nikole - After using suboxone to help with w/d from pills, I continued taking it for reasons other than that which it is prescribed, (depression, energy etc...) and without insurance, you wouldn't believe the lengths I would go to to get it. i.e. I would rather have subs and cigarettes than eat. So, to me it was just another drug.

Keep us posted...

Double Trouble 2 years ago

Um, sorry for the excessive posting, but this forum is all I have at the moment. As a result of the breakup, I moved in with my family and convinced them that I have the flu. I have chalked up the crying spells to "breakup aftermath". I just don't have the heart to tell them the truth. I am 35, and they already think that I've lost my mind. A little over a year ago, I was as high as a kite and just got up and walked out of a very decent management position with an international firm. It has been a downward spiral ever since.

So it's day 7 sans suboxone, and the insomnia is really taking it's toll. I was actually punching myself in the knees last night in an effort to stymie the RLS....needless to say, it was an exercise in futility.

I am extremely concerned, because the insomnia is what ultimately drove me to recommence taking subs 4 months ago after 10 days of w/d.

Help!

vincentx90 2 years ago

Double Trouble:

I'm here and reading the posts. Don't apologise for excessive posting. All your posts are very welcomed.

You are hitting it hard with the WDs. Go see the doc and if he'll prescribe something to help you sleep and for the other symptoms.

Failing that, I did do the first 6 weeks from jumping without any medication. Yes, I thought I was going crazy but I wasn't. It was just reality finding it's way back in again.

It does feel like a bad trip but you can learn to make it a good trip by tricking your mind.

It's really hard to get motivated to shower. However, it does get easier and then it feels good.

I take trips out during the day even when I'm not feeling up to it. Just forcing myself into 'society' seems to be stressful but it really helps afterwards.

You are not going crazy. I know it feels like that but it isn't true. These are the WD mind games. This is you arguing with yourself as your mind tries to stay in opioid world but without the opioid present.

I'm 35 too. Wasn't ever as successful as yourself. I walked out on a few low wage jobs. I was diagnosed with aspergers syndrome last year. It made me realise why I've been struggling to fit in, my whole life.

I did go to Uni as a mature student to read computer science. I went straight A's on all subjects in the first year. Second year you wouldn't even have seen me in the college. I just quit on it while my mind was messed up with drugs and stuff.

Can you buy Promethazine OTC where you live? I find 50mg of that is enough to make me drowsy. It sometimes comes in OTC sleeping aids in UK. Alternatively, see if a doc could script you it. It's not a drug of abuse. It's just a first generation, drowsy-type, antihistamine. I believe the anticholinergic effects might also be of help.

But anyway'se. Post all you like!

Phoenix54 2 years ago

Ok, so I have a question. I have been off subs since May 1st. So, almost 5 months. I have noticed that my moods are really violent and I am a bitch 24/7. I worry just about everything and I hate going outside unless it is absolutley needed. Like, I have no food left or my kid needs to run outside. I cant distinguish if it's depression or aniety..or just all of the mental crap! Im tired of doctors puttin me on stuff. I just want to feel normal and control my issues. But I cant seem to shake them. Also, I feel as if my world is crashing down on me all the time. Like nothing is ever good enough or something. When I was on subs, I was normal. I didnt crave, I wasnt a physco bitch, I didnt cry or hit shit, rarely lost my temper, wanna lay in bed for months, I mean WTF!!??!

I wonder why I even got off this shit, my family and friends told me it would be better to break the chain and all that. Which I got and still get but they never got that my brain needed that chemical.. I mean I took it for so long. Anti-depessents are so harsh on me and I havent had good experiance with them. Would it be a bad idea to try to get back on subs? or is there something out there that people know about that have been off subs longterm that helps?

The physical w/d's are pretty much gone. They def come and go though. I still have stomach issues. Like IBS or some annoying shit! I have lost just about 10 or so lbs as well. Which I didnt need!...

Oh also, if you dont have people that really get this shit, then its harder too. My family and friends just think Im happy and all but they must be crazy if they cant see Im not. I tell them all the time, Im about to break! They still just dont get it....sux.

Thanks,

Phoenix54

vincentx90 2 years ago

yes, you need to go out and have a good time, and no i don't mean use any opioid painkillers, i mean try doing something that is just for fun, whatever takes your fancy, take a friend bowling...

i know you are in a right shell at the moment. i have felt that way myself, the agoraphobia, anxiety, depressive thoughts, fear of absolutely everything...

Sounds like you could do with some more moral support at this stage. What country are you in? I would look into local NA meetings and/or even a local friendly spiritual centre, church, buddhist meditation priest, or whatever it takes, where you might find people are more understanding and think outside of the box...

Double Trouble 2 years ago

Phil - I took your advice and left the house for the first time, well...not including the other night when I went to the grocery store & got so freaked out that I left empty handed & made a run for my car...lol

So, I forced myself to go for a walk. I must have been a sight to behold - I have not washed my hair in 7 days. Oh well, that's my next project. I know without a doubt that I am detoxing, because the strangest thing happens to my vision -colors are ultra vivid, and all of the leaves and blades of grass are very crisp and clear. It's actually very beautiful.

Which brings me to my next point - music sounds really good when I have w/d.

I have attached a link to an article that indicates that powerful music (the kind that gives you the chills) causes a release of dopamine & activates the same pleasure centers as drugs.

http://psychcentral.com/news/2009/06/15/emotional-

Just be careful of your song choices. Music is powerful. I was once sent over the edge & relapsed from listening to Spiritualized - Let it Flow.

Hope this helps somebody - at least music can give you a tiny bit of relief.

Phoenix54 2 years ago

Hey. So I live in the US. I dont have good times at NA meetings and spitually Im burnt out. I dont need to believe in a higher power to get me through this. I need to believe in myself but I dont. Never really have. Im just tired of this feeling and Im tired of being a guinea pig. They should have a better control on drug addicts so we can bounce back a lot better than this. I mean, I most def do more things now that Im off subs but it takes a lot to get outside. I am much more paranoid. I truely hate this feeling. Im a stubborn ass too. You can tell me that something will work but I wont do it. Im very mental and can think things out. Anyways, I can say that I was productive. I have been cleaning my carpets for the past 5 hours and its 3 am! Way back when, I wouldve been up doing stupid drugs and stressin about the next day. So, at least I am in a better place now! There are positives... I know..

vincentx90 2 years ago

The psychological battle is a hard one...

Double Trouble 2 years ago

Day 8

Some symptoms have subsided: crying and severe pain, while others remain steadfast: insomnia, RLS, lethargy; anxiety.

Any relief is welcomed at this point.

I wanted to point out that the reason my body kicked so hard is b/c I jumped off at 8mg. It was a matter of poor planning on my part - I dumped my dealer, I mean my boyfriend; effectively cutting off my supply. I have a propensity for taking the "ready, fire, aim" approach, and sometimes it doesn't work out so well for me.....so it goes.

At any rate, just follow the advice of the good people on this forum & trail off slooooowly.

Phil - I must clarify a comment you made regarding me as "successful". The only thing I have ever been consistently successful with is systematically dismantling my life with drugs, alcohol & toxic relationships :) Oh well, I guess it's subject to change...

P.S. I washed my hair...twice

Double Trouble 2 years ago

I'm f-ing dying. I don't know what happened, but I am back in full blown w/d - sweating, knees killing me, hot & cold at the same time, nauseous. I feel like SHIT.

I don't know what to do. Should I try to get a little 1/4 or just tough it out? God, this f-ing sucks.

vincentx90 2 years ago

Other people have kicked from 8mg. I haven't. I don't know what to suggest.

I'm guessing the worst of the subby phsyical stuff must peak soon. Can anyone help here?

If you do end up taking a crumb or two of subs or slow tapering then you can jump again but will still be unpleasant. Albeit, maybe not as bad physically from a lower dose.

In the absence of anyone else posting I'll just say that you gotta do whatever you gotta do to get through this. Don't beat yourself up about it. This is a big change you are going through (like you don't already know that).

Keep us posted whatever you decide to do...

15th september, 146 days since jumping, my mind is starting to come back to normal instead of crazy racing thoughts, it's not back to normal yet but my thoughts are starting to work again in a more 'sane' manner.

vincentx90 2 years ago

awaiting new posts...

(lol, ok so i don't have a 'full' life back quite yet and still spend too much time on the internet :P )

vincentx90 2 years ago

well, at this rate, i won't bother coming here much longer...

for anyone wanting hope, i have come off subs and am getting better!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D

lealaken 2 years ago

Well I was writing for about 20 minutes and accidentally hit a key and erased everything! I am just so glad I found the posts here as I was about to spend $800 to start sub treatment from methadone...was told only 3-5%of people stopping sub get some mild w/d...what a crock obviously. I have quit meth twice before and swore never again...but here I am. I am prescribed 80mg a day, but only take 40mg in two doses of 20mg/day. I am going to try and get down to 20/day by stopping for 2-3 days, and not taking any until I absolutely cannot stand it. Then hopefully go off from a much lower number. I can no longer take the absence of motivation, lack of sexual desire, weight gain, slavery to the drug, along with the fear of being without it- anymore!! Not only that, but I will be unable to use my nursing license until I am free of everything...including suboxone, if I went on it. My doctor said sub is used for counteracting the opiate fatigue and that I should be on it for 12 months. After hearing everything though, I would be in the same spot with sub, only one year older and farther from my goal. I have not had any meth for about 16 hours, which is no big feat, but it is a start for me...the fear is so real...I think I would rather have my pinky finger axed off right now than go through another full fledged, uninterrupted withdrawal from methadone. It is not as violent as H, but lingers on for sooooo long. Maybe with the support of other addicts like all of you, it will be a little more tolerable. I am definitely going to take the advice of getting up and doing things instead of rolling around in bed feeling sorry for myself. I know that it is worth it once you are on the other side, it's just so fucking hard to get there. You are all warriors! Thank You for your stories of strength and victory! I will try and keep posting on my progress through this next battle.

vincentx90 2 years ago

lealaken

good to hear from you

yes, if u can, taper the methadone and step off, going down the subbie route will only delay the inevitable and then you'll have to go through it all again, it could be easier but it could be worse, most likely it'll just be as bad as methadone withdraw...

and yes going on them for 12 months will mean you are in for the full subbie withdraw plus you'll probably get addicted from the novelty on being a 'new' opiate and stay on it for longer than intended...

but your path is yours to choose, make the decisions that are right for you...

lealaken 2 years ago

vincentx90:

Thank You so much for your acknowledgment and compassionate words of encouragement...it really makes all the difference in the world.

Well just want to journal about what happened last night. After laying awake for a few hours, I decided to take half my usual night dose (10mg intead of 20mg) Ended up sleeping pretty good and woke up around 5 am feeling surprisingly fine. Usually even with my regular 20mg I wake up and NEED my morning dose ASAP. So instead of going ahead and taking my 20mg this morning, I once again took half of it (10mg)! I have noticed that when trying to reduce my daily dose, the best way to do it is to go through 12-24 hour periods of some mild/mod w/d and then dose a much smaller dose. This, however, is the easy part....going to zero is the killer. My plan is to go through 4-6 days of hell when jumping to nothing, and then giving myself a break with a 5-10mg dose...then try another 5 days or so and do the same thing. I plan on doing this 2-4 times before stopping the in between "breaks" so to speak. If anyone has done this and has had a terrible time, please let me know. Any suggestions and feedback are welcome. I do have a pretty strong will to stick with a plan once I commit to it. Once I am off the opiates I usually do not have a huge problem with cravings. I usually end up back on them due to health issues, and surgeries. Although, it has also been due to dabbling, thinking I can handle doing it just once or twice. (Yeah, right! What a joke.) I know how important it is to have a good program and attend NA or AA meetings regularly...I have been going to meetings, but a part of me feels like a bit of a faker since I am still on methadone. I still do consider myself sober, but I won't be 100% satisfied until I am 100% free of every crutch. Nor will I be able to practice nursing. I had a 9 month stretch of true sobriety back in June 2004 to March of 2005. I had never felt better! But I got too confident and stopped going to meetings, and before too long I was contemplating using, and within days I was high. I have battled with the big C and opiates for so long now, I am just so tired of being tired. I will update later how the taper is coming along. Thanks for listening! It's amazing to me how therapeautic it is to journal like this. I tend to be a little shy talking in meetings...I sometimes get too nervous to fully express what I need. I appreciate you all!!

lealaken 2 years ago

XXX 2 years ago

Hi lealaken

You will be fine-just remember that the pain of today does not have to come again ever if you dont want it to. I was on sub for three years and it has been a while since i tapered off and I still feel mild wd after a lot of time....your brain just has to repair all the damage we did to it . Call an NA hot line and see if they can send someone over who can help you through it who was also an opiate addict . God bless- and remember-you will get sick as hell-but nothing good comes from anything easy.

lealaken 2 years ago

XXX: You're right! Thank You for your thoughts...nothing worth having is easy...that's a fact.

In the past, I have never had the option of tapering and quitting slowly, which might be part of the reason why I am scared shitless of doing this. This third time around I am quitting because I want to and I need to, not because I ran out of money to pay for the methadone or other drugs. It seems to be the general consensus that tapering and coming off slowly is much more tolerable. The addict in me wants instant gratification, I want to get it done right now...but the scared shitless part of me knows that I would not be able to do it without giving in and setting myself up for failure. I just need to do this slowly, and keep reading and posting to maintain the motivation I have received by sharing with fellow addicts. I know it's only 9:30am, but damn I still feel pretty good! I owe it you guys! I can't say thanks enough. I'll post later this evening, to document how I feel after cutting my dose in half over the past day and a half. I know this is a suboxone withdrawal forum, but I feel really comfortable and connected with you all so I hope no one cares that I am actually tapering and coming off methadone. As far as I can tell, it's really not much different of a withdrawal...long and agonizing, even if not quite as violent as H or oxy. Opiate w/d is opiate w/d is what I have learned.

vincentx90 2 years ago

lealaken:

'opiate withdrawal is opiate withdrawal'

So true!

no problem with posting regardless of whatever u coming off, as far as i'm concerned anywway, can't speak for anyone else but can't see them minding

if you connect and it helps then post all you like

that's still a pretty fast taper you are doing by halving from 40ml a day to 20ml a day, be careful as the kick might take longer to hit you than just 24 hours, prolly 48 hours or 72...

when i tapered methadone i did it in 5ml steps down from 140ml a day to 10ml a day then i think i did it even slower going like 1 or 2ml at a time, can't remember precisely but was something like that, but i still didn't wait to stabilise properly between tapers, like i would wait till the worst of the withdraws past, the mental hell, then cut down again... although all-in-all it took me 6 months to complete the methadone taper, but then i was on 140mg a day for a long time (aka 1mg per 1ml solution, UK)

like you i was just desperate to get off as quickly as possible, it probably takes a good 6 months to be back to 'normal' after jumping, with meth or subs, but gradual taper will deffo reduce the violence of the physical stuff like restless legs syndrome which is probably the most intolerable aspect of it, they should have a syndrome called restless arms sydrome as i had terrible twitching in my arms and shoulders aswell...

it was the rls type stuff that forced me to taper more slowly as i found it intolerable as it seemed to go on for ever, a slower taper did improve the situation

your plan sounds good, i'd go for it, i think you are more than intelligent enough to be able to manage your own taper in whatever format suits you...

good luck mate and keep us posted :)

XXX:

how long since you jumped?

it's 5 months for me and still just getting my head back together... 152 days to be precise...

brian 68 2 years ago

Hey guys, sorry about the lack of support from here. I have been off since June 16 and I'm still having periods of massive anxiety. That being said; these fucking MDs who give you this shit do not know what it even does!! Whether from long-term opiate use or Sub Wds (all the same), it's gonna be a bitch. NO FREE RIDES But believe in yourself and keep seeing that rainbow at the end. What else is there??

lealaken 2 years ago

vincentx90: Well you are definitely right about the speed of my taper being a bit fast!

I am checking in for this evening...I tried taking only 10mg again for my night time dose, but I had to take an extra 10mg; totaling 30mg for the day. I know it will be better to take my time here.

So this is two days in a row going from 40mg to 30mg. I feel pretty good, so I plan to hold at this dose long enough to adjust and then I'll go down another 5mg.

I'll will continue to update and journal about how I am doing, and I look forward to reading more posts about how everyone else is doing. Thanks for listening.

vincentx90 2 years ago

Brian 68:

Great to hear from you. How long is it now since you jumped?

I know what you mean about the anxiety. Yesterday evening I was 'relatively' calm and then this morning I was shaking from head to toe. It took all my mental energy just to hold it together at some small social event (local church coffee morning) that I attended. Fortunately the people there know I'm going through a rough time and so I don't feel embarrassed or awkward about rattling in front of them. It just helps to be around people sometimes...

Man, I sweated so much that the back of my trousers were soaked through after sitting down for just 30 minutes. My mind feels like it is gurning, twisting, turning. It's a vile feeling but it does get easier every day despite being so bloody awful.

lealaken:

hang in there mate. you are doing a herculean effort and deserve a big pat on the back. I'm not surprised you've had to backtrack a bit and go upto 30ml :P But if you manage to handle 40 to 30 then you've done a major feat. Don't ever be disheartened about slowing the taper. All progress is progress. Look forward to hearing from you again.

Anyway, I know I post a lot here but it is all I've got at the moment. I'm still searching for other avenues of support and advice outside of the internet. I've even visited rehabs but they just haven't been for me. I'm not looking for residential placement and that is all they offered. I've had a couple of other leads to chase up today about the possibility of a place I can visit just on the worst days when I need the most support and just to be distracted by doing chores in the company of other people. All these places are charity based.

Anyway, thanks for listening to my endless rambles :s I really do appreciate it. If I hadn't of found this website I really don't know what I would have done.

lealaken 2 years ago

vincentx90: Once again you have made me feel better...thank you for your continued encouragement and support. I am grateful that you continue to post and keep us updated on how you are coping. And please continue to do so as much you as need to. It is just great to be able to have this place to keep in touch with others going through this same hell...no one else can really understand. My husband is very supportive, but he doesn't fully understand all that opiates can do to suck the life force out of me and the huge significance that trying to quit has in my life. You really do have a lot to be proud of. Look at what you have accomplished...5 months without opiates...not everyone can do what you have. As you know, the support of others is what you need at this time, and for a long time to come. In fact, the best way to ensure your continued abstinence is to always remain connected with people and support groups. I have, in the past, had the habit of drifting away from the NA and AA meetings once I got my life back together...this has proven to be my fatal mistake. Before long, I end up dabbling here and there and end up with another full blown addiction. I feel that the meetings are like preventative medicine. I don't always feel like I belong...but if I just go anyway, I do stay clean.

I am on day three of my taper from 40 to 30mg. I took 10mg this morning and I am feeling the taper a little today. However, with the support I've received and the help of reading all the posts, I am tolerating it very well. I plan to wait until as late as I can tonight to take the rest of my dose, and I may even try taking 15mg instead of 20mg....not sure yet. I will post later tonight or tomorrow, and will continue reading about all of your issues and experiences. Thanks again for listening and supporting.

vincentx90 2 years ago

lealaken: great to hear from you, keep us posted

Brian68: i misread your post, i see you stated quite clearly that you jumped on june 16, my bad :s

not surprised you still having massive anxiety bouts, i'm still having them after 5 months (although NOT so intense and I can function while experiencing them)

take care y'all,

Phil.

Horatio 2 years ago

Jumped off 4 days ago at 2mg. Was on sub for ~13 months usually at a dose of 4-8 mg/day. User of dope, oxys, and painkillers of all sorts for 2+ years before that. Withdrawals so far not near h, but very shitty to say the least. No nausea or headache, just extreme lethargy, sweating, chills, stomach cramps, diarrhea. Looking for hope at this forum but see theres none to be had. It's a Long Hard Road out of Hell.

vincentx90 2 years ago

Horation: we are here and reading!

the hope i can give you is that i'm 5 months down the line and am finally getting my head together and back in reality

it really is worth every ounce of pain, the goal is priceless

i hope by six months i'll be almost 'normal' i.e. without opiate WDs and the opiate psychological wiithdrawal battle

I am getting better each day. Today I had half good, half bad. But the good bit was fantastic and enough to get me through the bad bit.

I can remember getting a little bit better every day even months ago. This is what kept me going then. Now i'm in a positiion where I'm reaching out to the local community rather than in. For me this means church involvement and vooluntary work. For you it could be anything, whatever you might find that helps. Maybe NA, maybe church, maybe buhddism, like whatever suits you!

But, if you feel unable to reach out, or don't want to at this point, then you will get through this still.

All I know is, for myself, not for everyone, that I have found a FRIENDLY local church that is down to earth, no whacky pentacostal shit, just regular people who accept me for who I am and where I'm at. This has helped enormously, immeasurably.

Maybe a completely different journey might help you. It's worth looking at the various possibilities even if just to rule them out...

Yes it is a long hard road but there are things that can help, if and when you are ready.

I really do wish you all the best and hope you will post again.

Phil. (155 days since jumping from subbies and yes I continue to get better :). But, it was never easy...

lealaken 2 years ago

Horatio:

Sometimes hope comes in mysterious ways...just realizing that you are not alone in this shit can prove to be invaluable. I have found this forum to be a great place to finally find the courage to start my own journey of getting off the opiates permanently. I know I am no where near where you and many of the others are, but I aspire to be as strong as all of you have been. I really hope you will keep us updated on your progress.

vincentx90:

I am so glad to hear about how great you are doing...I can sense the positive change in your words! Slowly but steadily you are getting to that awesome place that I myself hope to be in someday. Hopefully in the not so distant future. Patience, patience, patience...that's what I need.

I am maintaining well on my taper...no setbacks, and for that I am truly grateful. As always, thanks for posting and thanks for listening. I wish everyone the warrior strength that we all must possess in order to fight this. With great sacrifice comes great reward.

vincentx90 2 years ago

lealaken: thank you so much for your words of encouragement :)

i wonder how you are doing?

lealaken 2 years ago

vincentx90: You are quite welcome...hey, that's what we do for each other. You have been a huge help to me. I am really glad to know that you have found a good, down to earth church group that accepts you for who you are. That's a huge asset for you and your recovery...but you know that. Keep it up! You are a huge inspiration for anyone going through hell and for those of us trying to quit. I know you said you tapered and quit methadone but that you didn't wait to stabilize 100% before going down more. In your opinion, how long should someone wait before going down another 5mg or so? I believe I'm on day 5 of 30mg from 40mg...and today feels like my best day yet. But I'm not 100%, so I do think I should wait to feel more normal. I'm thinking two weeks at this dose...does this sound sensible?

Well this weekend should be full of stress since my husband and I are moving to a new place. I'm excited and dreadful at the same time. If you don't hear from me for a bit it's because I have to get my internet set up properly. Right now we get a signal from our current landlord, so I may have to order service at the new place. I will be back though, so please keep posting. See everyone back here as soon as I can. Hang in there.

Melanie

vincentx90 2 years ago

lealaken: 2 weeks sounds like a good plan for stabilisation after taper. That was what I was supposed to have done only I lost patience towards the end and speeded the process up. I started tapering like every 2 or 3 days. This wasn't good as, at one point, I experienced intense suicidal feelings and had to make an emergency appointment with the psychiatrist. Following that, I backtracked and recommenced a slower taper.

I just hated being on the stuff. I'd had enough of the slavery to chemicals. I wanted to get a natural high from just knowing I had reached zero. I guess it's that compulsive addictive personality thing again, wanting it to happen all at once.

When I did finally zero (albeit on subbies but whatever, it's all the same) I did not experience any high but instead had the CT to deal with. But before jumping, I did a better job at slow tapering even staying on a 'small' dose for an entire 2 months.

In some ways it's harder to taper the subbies cos you have to carve up the tablets so damn small. With methadone I used a syringe (sprayed into mouth) so I could accurately taper by as little as 1ml at a time.

It's the percentage drop that counts not the dosage. So going from 100ml to 90ml is kind of the same as going from 10ml to 9ml, if you see what I mean. 40ml to 30ml is a 25% drop, that's quite a lot and I'm delighted you have been able to deal with that. You can take great encouragement from that.

Of course, inevitably, when jumping one is going from whatever dose to zero whether it be 1ml or a 100ml. So, naturally, that's a 100% drop and some kick might be felt. But, to kick from 1ml has surely got to be less painful and traumatic than to kick from say 10ml (which is still approx equivalent to 100mg of codeine 4 times a day).

Although, for myself, once I'd reached a very low dose, like 5mg I really felt like I was already fully clucking. Maybe because I had rushed it so much earlier on and was still clucking from the bigger drops I had done previously? I tried like 3ml and stuff to ease the discomfort but it really had very little effect. Although now, looking back, that little effect might have been beneficial if I'd had continued to taper bi-weekly?

It seems to me now that the 3ml had no effect because I was probably still clucking from a dose much higher due to rapid tapering.

Definitely, it is best to taper very slowly and to stabilise between tapers before continuing (two weeks being a good plan, but if longer is needed then so be it). The body doesn't like sudden and dramatic changes to it's chemistry so it follows that it is going to be kinder to yourself and your body to taper as slowly as is required.

I hope the above makes some sense as I'm going through a bit of a wobbly episode right now although I had a really excellent first half of the day.

May I add you to my prayer list? Please let me know, as I do not want to offend you by doing something that you might feel strongly against for your own personal and very valid reasons.

Wishing you all the best Melanie and, yet again, thank you for your kind words and encouragement. You really are a thoroughly nice person and I hope you are already or will soon feel that for yourself.

Kind regards y'all ("y'all" being a quaint american expression I have picked up on, me being from the UK... :D ),

Phil.

Horatio 2 years ago

I am now 144 hours out and am no doubt feeling somewhat better. I was even able to sleep almost 7 hours last night. I'm far from out of the woods though. I am still experiencing the chills, back pain and bad GI problems as well as some unpleasant underarm sweating, but my energy and mood is up a little which is welcomed. Hopefully at 25 my body can rebound quickly and I can get my head together. The thing I miss most is the speedy high I got from the subs. I was able to get so much done on them and they turned my life around 180 so they're not all bad. But I hated that my moods were always intimately tied to the level of subs I had in my system. Then again I didn't really quit by choice I just ran out.

lealaken 2 years ago

Horatio: So glad to hear that you are improving...the worst is just a memory. You may be right about it being easier when you are younger. The first time I detoxed from methadone I was 25 or 26 and it didn't feel nearly as bad as it did the second time around at age 29 or 30. Now I am 34 and dreading my third, and hopefully my last, detox off of methadone/opiates. Like you, I was forced to quit the first two times due to lack of funds and/or inability to get the chemicals. Once this occurred, I was forced to suffer through the w/d, but after it was over I was glad I was done with the shit anyway. I remember feeling fatigue and not sleeping very well for several months after coming out of the woods...but each day was a little bit better than the one before it. Please keep us posted on your progress. Just remember how strong of a person you are for making it through this. It will take a different kind of strength to keep yourself away from it.

vincentx90: Absolutely add me to your prayer list! I would be so honored and grateful for that "mate" (A quaint British expression I picked up from reading the posts...lol) I feel I owe my life to prayer. I believe it may have saved my life when I was in a coma for nearly a month back in January of 2004. I had a rare complication that occurred as a result of taking oral contraceptives. The pills caused a large, benign tumor to grow and abruptly rupture on my liver. I was rushed from the small ER at the hospital where I was actually employed as a nurse, and taken via helicopter to a large nearby hospital. The surgeon told my family that I had about a 40% chance of surviving, at best. After I did recover, I found out there were a lot of people and prayer groups that were praying for my recovery while I was in ICU. I really think this influenced the outcome. Once I regained full consciousness in the hospital, I recovered very quickly, and with no permanent damage. The only downside, of course, was the hardcore morphine addiction that I was sent home with. This led to a desperate act of phoning in my own prescriptions of Vicodin (the strongest opiate legally allowed to be phoned in to a pharmacy here in the states) and subsequently getting caught, thus leading to the suspension of my RN license. Now the upside to this is that I was forced to take a good look at myself and I found true sobriety for nearly a year. This is what I want to have again...it was amazing!

I really appreciate the explanation you gave of the tapering. I never knew that it was a percentage based concept, although it makes perfect sense to me now. I did have one question about what you were saying about what you went through after stopping subbies. What does CT stand for? I also like the term "clucking"...I have never heard that used before, but it's really quite catchy! It's so encouraging to hear how you are doing. Hopefully the ratio of good time during your day will continue to get bigger than that of the bad times. I know it will...that's the nature of this drug.

I have spent the weekend moving to a new place, so it's been really busy. Luckily I found a network to grab some internet service here at the new place, so I can continue to read, post, support, and receive the support of you all. I am maintaining on my current dose of 30mg with no setbacks. Each day I feel a little better, so hopefully I will be able to drop another 5mg in a week or so. I will keep reading and posting! As always, thanks for the support and thanks for listening.

vincentx90 2 years ago

Just a quick post as am a bit out of sorts at the moment.

However, I am still improving everyday. I'm just getting my head around socialising. This is always a huge challenge for me because of aspergers syndrome. Being in recovery from opiate dependency just makes it even harder.

Melanie: CT = cold turkey

Glad you like the word 'clucking'. It's commonly used in the UK to describe going through withdrawals. The other word that is used here is 'rattling' but I think you use that in the USA aswell?

Sometimes my head is rattling so much it feels like my brain is just wobbling about inside my skull.

Man, I have so much paperwork I need to get done but can't find the motivation. I guess I'll get round to doing it at the last minute...

Anyway, good to hear from you Melanie and Horatio. Yes, I'll certainly add you to my prayer list Melanie and also submit your name in the prayer request box at the local cathedral and my local church.

Take care y'all,

Phil.

vincentx90 2 years ago

Melanie: just to update you, today I gave your name forward for the prayer team at my local church, on Friday I will be at the Cathedral and will submit your name there also.

I hope this is to your liking :s :)

Phil.

sabin 2 years ago

Today is day 1 for me. I have been on sub for 2 1/2 years now after conquering a 3 year heroin addiction in which the last year i was using 2 bundles every day. I thank god it got me off heroin but now its time to get off the sub. I have tapered down to 1 mg per day which seems to have a descent success rate. i cant do anything about the pain. might try to find something for anxiety. just trying to stay focused on being dependent free. i figured it was gonna suck to w/d from but some of these post scare the shit out of me. through my experience with suboxone i dont fully support it because it is a crutch and prohibited me from being myself. i would advise to avoid it unless necessary.i will post back to share on my experience. good luck to all others kicking this drug!

vincentx90 2 years ago

sabin: i would strongly recommend tapering down even further than 1mg, see earlier posts like those by Brian68, taper down to a crumb, 1/4 of a 2mg tab or even smaller, and taper slow

jumping from 1mg might kick hard, sub is very strong, something like 20x that of morphine dose for dose, the lower the dose you jump from the less intense the physical stuff like RLS will be...

forewarned is forearmed

don't scare yourself shitless just because of the reports on this web page, yes it is hard to kick subs and any opiate but it is certainly possible, you will get through it

look forward to hearing how you doing, bear in mind that subs have a very long half-life so you might not feel the full kick until 48-96 hours have past

Phil.

sabin 2 years ago

what you said is very useful advice Phil. unfortunatley for me i start my new career next week and will need to be at the top of my game. One month ago i was down to .5 and feeling great. i was on that dose for two months b4 numerous issues suddenly arrised. I coped by taking my tolerance back up to 2mg from .5mg. smart move right? lol. anyways right now im at my 24hr mark and feeling the burn. A pleasant suprise after 2 1/2 years. i got myself into this mess now its time to dig myself out. Im going to try to buy another week b4 work to do this as smart as possible. Thank you for your advice and knowledge.

horatio 2 years ago

Day 9.5. Most symptoms ameliorated, but sweating, axillary hyperhidrosis and diarrhea steadfast... Feeling like an alien in my own skin... Its a good thing I severed communications with the opiate element in late 2008 because I may be having trouble. No doubt this is some nasty stuff. It is definitely of worth that everyone at this forum is going through the same shit... peace, horatio

horatio 2 years ago

btw, i wish i would have tapered! i went down from 8 to 4 mg to 2 mg but thats pretty much as low as I could go because I only had a nice cache of the 8 mg pills. A lot of times when I only took 2 a day I would be cranky as shit in the afternoon - I knew I was in for quite an ordeal but didn't want to believe it.

sabin 2 years ago

i gave in and took a .2 sliver for one last good sleep. so im back to 10 hrs of clean time.im defintely craving a crumb of suboxone right now but im pretty sure the pain of breaking this habit will be worth it for me. if anybody knows some tricks to help sedate some of the symptoms i am all ears.

horatio: 9.5 dsys is a great accomplishment and i hope things keep getting better for you. stay strong and i hope to be following your footsteps right on out of this hell.

brian 68 2 years ago

Hey Sabin and Horatio, keep trying because You have decided YOUR worth it. No doubt this will be hard but as I've said before and I don't mean it in a jerky way; No free rides.I believe that a key to getting thru the really hard times is talking to people and keeping the mind from racing with thoughts which are inevitably on drugs which would relieve your misery. Problem being that the misery will be waiting for you next time you try to stop! Listen to some good tunes when sleep is not coming, hang in there! You are worth way more than any fucking drugs.